|
Mors Rattus posted:I feel it is important to note that anime fandom has plenty of its own racist shitbags - they don't have to invade anywhere, they just have to start talking about their racist shittiness in anime zones, too. Anime Matsuri had a dude walking around dressed as a Nazi ("cosplay") until enough people stepped up and said "hey, maybe stop having this guy walk around as a Nazi." Would you be surprised to learn that Anime Matsuri's founder has been accused multiple times of sexual harassment and his wife helps to cover it up? And that they proudly support Vic? No. No, you would not.
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 20:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 10:27 |
|
|
Meinberg posted:In my mind, the real secret is that Michael Pucci, the lead designer of Dystopia Rising, doesn’t come from a boffer tradition, he comes from Vamp Larp. Vamp Larp is particularly well known for its toxic power structures and tendency to intrude upon out of game spaces in unpleasant ways, as well as for having requiring large amounts of time and money invested into a game before seeing any return as a power player. Yeah, exactly. I used to play off and on with Alliance Larp (formerly NERO Alliance) for a few years a decade and a half ago and even then they knew that you need IC/OOC boundaries and room for people to decompress and prevent bleed (even if they didn't articulate the term). To the point of building in an in-game ability (Ward) that is just an explicit Nobody Can Come In Here to let people feel safe without having to go OOG to sleep. Darwinism posted:When people think about atrocious vampire LARPers it's always the national org people. Always. Chalk me up for Opinions as well. Two guys from the Cam-organized Vampire larp crowd here in town back in the late 90's did time for being kiddie fiddlers, and everyone knew it then because they absolutely used the game to groom young women. That's outside of the org drama line like people quite literally sucking dick to get approved to play stuff outside the norm, or high-level players travelling to other regional games and murdering the entire character base in the first hour of the night then going home because they don't like the person the group elected to ST. Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Mar 14, 2019 |
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 22:16
|
|
|
I feel like that would work until you leave the room then everyone would poo poo talk to you forever and revive their characters. And if you call unfair they would say you never showed up.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 22:37
|
|
|
Mors Rattus posted:I feel it is important to note that anime fandom has plenty of its own racist shitbags - they don't have to invade anywhere, they just have to start talking about their racist shittiness in anime zones, too. It does overall, yeah. The current pushback building up around Vic is from a lot of alt righters migrating between -gates as one loses steam though. The anime one is trying to play on the built in regressive, racist base.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 22:41
|
|
|
I'm not very active in the anime spheres of social media but I can 100% confirm the ringleaders of comicsgate have cut chudbait videos supporting Mignona.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 23:02
|
|
|
MollyMetroid posted:Also "waifu", waifu is pretty gross in most contexts in which it's used. There's a lot more, really. It gets pretty unpleasant. Waifu came from a parody context, so it’s not too bad. But “loli” for a young girl is just bloody awful and ignorant.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 23:03
|
|
|
In usage, waifu is often bad, is the thing. But I'll agree that in isolation it isn't necessarily an indicator of anything.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 23:14
|
|
|
Waifu might have come from a parody context, but it's certainly being used unironically by a lot of people now.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 23:20
|
|
|
Dreqqus posted:I'm not very active in the anime spheres of social media but I can 100% confirm the ringleaders of comicsgate have cut chudbait videos supporting Mignona. Not just chudbait, but a GoFundMe raising "funds" for Mignogna. I'm sure he and his legal counsel will get all of it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 23:22
|
|
|
Meinberg posted:From what I can tell, anime fans are either Maga chuds or they’re ardently progressive leftists. Unironically, it's because last nerd fandom not completely overrun by neoliberalism and isn't a hole were only various degrees of liberalism and neoconservativeidm are allowed, like say American comics or video games. You can create a socialist series like One Piece or Kaji the Ultimate Survivor; or Fascist apologia like Attack on Titan and have them all massively successful, upheld and promoted by the industry and fans. I'd say that makes it the best, because you can actually have a battle over a fandom's soul, unlike say a Call of Duty game that in the end of the day has to be chickensuit because it needs 40 million sales to turn a profit, so nothing is going to be said of worth there nearly as often, even if means the 'bad' fandom is usually going to be less embarrassing. NutritiousSnack fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Mar 14, 2019 |
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 23:24
|
|
|
Golden Bee posted:I feel like that would work until you leave the room then everyone would poo poo talk to you forever and revive their characters. And if you call unfair they would say you never showed up. That's the thing about it being a national game. Those assholes are higher up in the org, and if you reversed in game actions without sanction from above they'd sanction your ST and invalidate the characters in the approvals system.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 23:27
|
|
|
NutritiousSnack posted:or Fascist apologia like Attack on Titan
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 23:29
|
|
|
Terrible Opinions posted:Tanya. Tanya's author is an avowed Marxist and first LN heavily reflected that, with it being a direct magical adaption of time period or someone's life (I forget), and has done interviews where for a Japanese writer of Nerd poo poo, is oddly upfront about being a leftist. /pol/ had a huge meltdown about it, but I think that's also reflects the pitfalls of satire or whatever.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 23:35
|
|
|
Didn't Attack on Titan just start with "The military is the only thing standing between you and being a giant's lunch" before recently hard swerving into "HEY MAYBE THE NAZIS WERE RIGHT ALSO THE GIANTS ARE JEWS!" complete with giant ghettos and armbands?
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 23:38
|
|
|
Also with the main protagonist being a Secret Jew in the state military, if you want to extend the metaphor.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 23:47
|
|
|
NutritiousSnack posted:Tanya's author is an avowed Marxist and first LN heavily reflected that, with it being a direct magical adaption of time period or someone's life (I forget), and has done interviews where for a Japanese writer of Nerd poo poo, is oddly upfront about being a leftist. /pol/ had a huge meltdown about it, but I think that's also reflects the pitfalls of satire or whatever. It's pretty obvious too. Like it's basically an extremely anime take on American Psycho; the whole point is that the kind of psychopath it takes to be the perfect corporate middle manager would also make a great nazi, and that Tanya is a monster.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 23:47
|
|
|
Kurieg posted:Didn't Attack on Titan just start with "The military is the only thing standing between you and being a giant's lunch" before recently hard swerving into "HEY MAYBE THE NAZIS WERE RIGHT ALSO THE GIANTS ARE JEWS!" complete with giant ghettos and armbands? Yes, but the most popular character is a hypercompetent, completely emotionless, sister-but-not-by-blood Tropey Waifu. In conclusion, Shingeki no Juden is an anime of contrasts.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 23:52
|
|
|
I'm old enough to remember when the cool edgelord anime had Dracula and Wolverine Priest murdering buckets of vampire Nazis.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 23:54
|
|
|
The success of gamergate (not in the sense that gamergate now controls all video games forever but in the sense that it provided a proof-of-concept for aggregating, weaponizing, and monetizing the angry bigot nerd demographic) has basically ensured that the same rough group of people are going to leapfrog from fandom to fandom as many times as they can whenever the current grift runs dry.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2019 00:08
|
|
|
NutritiousSnack posted:Tanya's author is an avowed Marxist and first LN heavily reflected that, with it being a direct magical adaption of time period or someone's life (I forget), and has done interviews where for a Japanese writer of Nerd poo poo, is oddly upfront about being a leftist. /pol/ had a huge meltdown about it, but I think that's also reflects the pitfalls of satire or whatever. Kurieg posted:Didn't Attack on Titan just start with "The military is the only thing standing between you and being a giant's lunch" before recently hard swerving into "HEY MAYBE THE NAZIS WERE RIGHT ALSO THE GIANTS ARE JEWS!" complete with giant ghettos and armbands? Terrible Opinions fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Mar 15, 2019 |
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2019 00:13
|
|
|
titan has hamfisted imagery but it's not supporting nazis
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2019 00:22
|
|
|
Kai Tave posted:The success of gamergate (not in the sense that gamergate now controls all video games forever but in the sense that it provided a proof-of-concept for aggregating, weaponizing, and monetizing the angry bigot nerd demographic) has basically ensured that the same rough group of people are going to leapfrog from fandom to fandom as many times as they can whenever the current grift runs dry. Yeah. I was taken by surprise when Ethan Van Sciver (ComicsGate) leaped to the defense of Jeremy Hambly (vanilla alt-right nerd chud), but I probably shouldn't have been. It's like the Blob, only with unsightly facial hair.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2019 00:26
|
|
|
In fact, here's my hot take for the day: part of the reason that #DnDGate didn't really go anywhere is largely down to the fact that the grift money just isn't there. James Desborough makes less than a hundred patreon dollars a month. RPGpundit's patreon has two backers. That isn't to say that lovely actors don't or have never resided within the hobby and gotten money out of it because clearly that's not true, Zak S is a shining example, but in terms of directly monetizing the sort of chud brigade that has people paying disgraced comic book artists to make new comics that will totally own the libtards or dumping money into their "legal defense funds," tabletop gaming just doesn't really seem to have that sort of gravy train for pundits to ride. The Quartering guy's legal defense fund for supposedly getting punched at Gencon is maybe the closest I can think of recently and even he's more of a general culture war dipshit than someone solely focused on tabletop gaming as his big issue.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2019 01:48
|
|
|
My experience with anime fandom was more chuds, less maga--this was several years back and at that point they were mostly just pasty white kids with zero self awareness of how privileged they were to claim they were "not into politics." If there's a harder right-wing streak now I suppose I am not surprised, patriarchal entitlement is a hell of a drug. Of course, as loud as those assholes are, youth voices seem to be pushing back pretty hard against regressive values if one trusts opinion polling.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2019 02:01
|
|
|
It's my understanding from watching Attack on Titan up to the latest, I watch it with my anime night group, and reading the condensed version of what follows the anime so far is that all the characters on not-Madagascar are Jew analogues, the Eldians. In a very overwrought and convoluted way, the Eldians were essentially exiled to this island so that this government could keep a monopoly on titan power, which the Eldians know the secret of. Advances in technology on the mainland have almost made titans obsolete so a genocide is about to be carried out on them if something isn't done. Eren, the main character, gets caught up in this and while the Eldian military does coup the Eldian ruling class, they aren't much better and that's made apparent. Eren also goes off the deep end and kills a bunch of people in the other nation and this is also shown as not good from what I understand. It seems like it's ultimately a story about how extremism sucks and war destroys lives in the Gundam tradition, not being a very good one. I don't really think the lesson is that fascism and militarism solve everything. One of the characters is based on a Russo-Japanese War/WWI era general and that caused a lot of backlash in Korea because the general Akiyama Yoshifuru was a part of the colonization of Korea.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2019 02:18
|
|
|
occamsnailfile posted:My experience with anime fandom was more chuds, less maga--this was several years back and at that point they were mostly just pasty white kids with zero self awareness of how privileged they were to claim they were "not into politics." If there's a harder right-wing streak now I suppose I am not surprised, patriarchal entitlement is a hell of a drug. Of course, as loud as those assholes are, youth voices seem to be pushing back pretty hard against regressive values if one trusts opinion polling. A lot of that is basically because the right aggressively recruited among that demographic having noticed that what passed for the left completely ignored them or used them as a punching bag, so all the suburban lost boys had the far right love-bombing them and actually appearing to care about their problems when no one else did. It wasn't until later with the resurgence of the American left providing an alternative to bourgeois neoliberalism actually had widespread appeal to people, especially the rather large contingent of LGBT people and nonwhites in anime and nerd fandoms in general who tend to be completely ignored both by conservatives and liberals.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2019 03:36
|
|
|
Kai Tave posted:In fact, here's my hot take for the day: part of the reason that #DnDGate didn't really go anywhere is largely down to the fact that the grift money just isn't there. James Desborough makes less than a hundred patreon dollars a month. RPGpundit's patreon has two backers. That isn't to say that lovely actors don't or have never resided within the hobby and gotten money out of it because clearly that's not true, Zak S is a shining example, but in terms of directly monetizing the sort of chud brigade that has people paying disgraced comic book artists to make new comics that will totally own the libtards or dumping money into their "legal defense funds," tabletop gaming just doesn't really seem to have that sort of gravy train for pundits to ride. The Quartering guy's legal defense fund for supposedly getting punched at Gencon is maybe the closest I can think of recently and even he's more of a general culture war dipshit than someone solely focused on tabletop gaming as his big issue. Hambly's branding was built specifically around Magic: The Gathering, which was "good" to start out with. The fanbase on its own is guaranteed to be massive enough to outsize all of the tabletop rpg niche on a cosmic scale. The problem he ran into is that MtG is controlled by one company that could comfortably wash its hands of him the minute he clashed too violently with the image of openness and diversity they've been investing into the game for years.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2019 04:30
|
|
|
Nuns with Guns posted:Hambly's branding was built specifically around Magic: The Gathering, which was "good" to start out with. The fanbase on its own is guaranteed to be massive enough to outsize all of the tabletop rpg niche on a cosmic scale. The problem he ran into is that MtG is controlled by one company that could comfortably wash its hands of him the minute he clashed too violently with the image of openness and diversity they've been investing into the game for years. It certainly wasn't "the minute". WotC ignored him for years of abuse until a prominent figure they were aligned with finally caved under the assault.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2019 04:49
|
|
|
It's really not uncommon for communities, even nominally progressive ones, to close ranks behind a prominent member who's been credibly accused of abuse until MAYBE they're actually in prison for it or public opinion turns against them badly enough, and in the case of niche communities that can often be 'never'.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2019 04:55
|
|
|
Toshimo posted:It certainly wasn't "the minute". WotC ignored him for years of abuse until a prominent figure they were aligned with finally caved under the assault. That was "the minute" I meant. But really it was a generally sluggish process of dropping him from their list of approved prerelease content previwers, then months later doing the lifetime ban when something they couldn't ignore finally blew up.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2019 05:20
|
|
|
Nessus posted:I'm old enough to remember when the cool edgelord anime had Dracula and Wolverine Priest murdering buckets of vampire Nazis. Thank you for reminding me off Helsing Abridged and holy poo poo they actually released new episodes that I had completely missed.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2019 15:20
|
|
|
Nuns with Guns posted:That was "the minute" I meant. But really it was a generally sluggish process of dropping him from their list of approved prerelease content previwers, then months later doing the lifetime ban when something they couldn't ignore finally blew up. I did like somebody also had the bright idea to kick him off Magic Online. Apparently this cost Ham a bunch of money, and even more money potentially because he couldn't sell his cards made of 1s and 0s.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2019 15:29
|
|
|
I wish they would do the same with MTGA. There is an abuser who was pro circuit or something, and regularly streams MTGA and is a top streamer in that category. (Todd Stevens) He was fired from SCG for being a sex pest, but welp guess he's a-ok for mtga. I could be wrong here, but he also might've done wotc sponsored casts, but don't quote me on that, I haven't actually verified if that's true, yet.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2019 16:37
|
|
|
Darwinism posted:When people think about atrocious vampire LARPers it's always the national org people. Always. This is exactly what I walked directly into during my first LARP ever (though it was NERO instead of Vampire) and I straight up washed my hands of ever LARPing again.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2019 16:56
|
|
|
Farg posted:titan has hamfisted imagery but it's not supporting nazis Yeah I think the hamfisted point it's making is about the futility of the cycle of perpetuating hate between people for spurious reasons or something.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2019 17:26
|
|
|
Mors Rattus posted:Short form, the two words I am specifically thinking of are: Loli is a loanword from Japanese iirc, and is basically derived form the book Lolita It's also related to the term "Lolicon" which is short for Lolita Complex. Gothic Lolita (another thing straight from Japan) is commonly shortened to Gothloli. Trap, iirc, was originally used to describe a character like Bridget from Guilty Gear who's a very feminine looking boy dressed as a girl. It then basically got extended to any passable looking MtF trans person or crossdresser. There's a Japanese term whose origins I'm not fully aware of called "Otokonoko" which has similar connotations and, again, is largely about physical appearance. There's an equivalent Japanese term for girls/women who look passably male but I can't recall it. Culturally speaking, Japan is still fairly regressive in terms of stuff like this, particularly in the manga and anime industry, but it's not as bound as the West due to the lack of religious moralism that typically impedes those sort of social changes. There's no "Good book" to cling to to defend that sort of animus. Nuns with Guns posted:It does overall, yeah. The current pushback building up around Vic is from a lot of alt righters migrating between -gates as one loses steam though. The anime one is trying to play on the built in regressive, racist base. Remember that Vic also has his own specially cultivated fan club so there's a second prong of people backing him that's largely female and may not politically align with the alt-right types supporting him.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2019 19:46
|
|
|
Xelkelvos posted:Loli is a loanword from Japanese iirc, and is basically derived form the book Lolita It's also related to the term "Lolicon" which is short for Lolita Complex. Gothic Lolita (another thing straight from Japan) is commonly shortened to Gothloli. My dude, we know the etymology. Loli is in practice said by folks sexualizing young girls. Gothic Lolita fashion practitioners use the whole loving term to avoid that association. You will never see someone talking about lolis who is not doing it like "mmm delicious lolis" or "ohhhhh spicy hot loligasms"; actual non-disgusting humans just call them girls and don't apply horrific sexualizing adjectives to them. Trap, I mean if you recall correctly, it doesn't matter, because it is literally meant as, "hey that character you think is a cute girl has a dick, it's a trap!" Which is not only surface level gross, but also implies motive on the part of the character to "trap" guys into being gay or having sex. Which is not only gross because of that, but because the term is also applied to real world trans women. That motivation is carried over. We get murdered because of that assumption. What's more, in most states trans panic ("She had a penis, I panicked and killed her") is a loving valid legal defense for murdering trans women. Otokonoko, incidentally, is fine. It doesn't do that. So kindly don't loving equate the two. Finally, Japan may have whatever goddamn cultural reasons it wants for this, but the conversation isn't about japanese people. It's about the terminology used by Western, English speaking fans of Japanese media. Don't try and offload culpability for being gross as gently caress and getting people killed on another nation, it's a bad look. Does Japan need to shape up? Absofuckinglutely, but also remember that most Japanese people treat anime fans as basically horrifically nerdy and separate themselves from them. Remember that it's a gerontocracy and it's losing young people because they wont' stick around to be hosed over by the old. Remember that there are absolutely Japanese authors and artists who are doing everything they can to get this poo poo right and some of them count as own voices--they're in the midst of a battle over these rights the same as we are in the west. Ultimately if you had a point to that post that wasn't trying to sideline or deflect the issues we're talking about I couldn't see it. So gently caress you.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2019 20:06
|
|
|
Xelkelvos posted:Loli is a loanword from Japanese iirc, and is basically derived form the book Lolita It's also related to the term "Lolicon" which is short for Lolita Complex. Gothic Lolita (another thing straight from Japan) is commonly shortened to Gothloli.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2019 20:08
|
|
|
Xelkelvos posted:Remember that Vic also has his own specially cultivated fan club so there's a second prong of people backing him that's largely female and may not politically align with the alt-right types supporting him. This is true. There's a large number of teenage girls in this group that seem to have confused him for his characters, particularly Ed from Fullmetal Alchemist or the one from Ouran Host Club. His mom helps run the group, no lie.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2019 22:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 10:27 |
|
|
Iirc there are also Rockbell Rangers that report it's another problem that Vic constantly grabs them off the con floor to act as his personal con staff without compensating them. Dudes a mess all over.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2019 22:42
|
|
