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vyelkin posted:The incel guy killed 10 people with his van. This is the argument. Knives and baseball bats can be weapons, but they aren't inherently express murder like firearms.
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Mar 15, 2019 15:18
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vyelkin posted:The incel guy killed 10 people with his van. How many did the bastard in Nice get with a large truck? I agree with the idea but simply banning semi-autos won't fix the issue of desperate,sad,pathetic young men acting out this way. We should probably only be issuing like 10 semi-auto licenses a year instead of issuing out 10,000 gun sales. But I think the best thing to lower how often these events re-occur rather than just looking at the casaulties in each incident. What is driving these sick fucks to act out this way, when it was much less common 50 years ago. Hell, I'd be fine with banning gun ownership for young men unless they are vouched for by their spouse and parents or whatever. Its almost always isolated men causing these attacks. patonthebach fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Mar 15, 2019 |
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Mar 15, 2019 15:19
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vyelkin posted:The incel guy killed 10 people with his van. The New Zealand guy also made a car bomb and talked about making a dust explosion out of flour, so there are some other things we can ban while we're at it
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Mar 15, 2019 15:24
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We could reduce societal stressors related to inequality that generally lead to upticks in extremist violence through vigorous economic redistribution and also regulate/ban guns. It isn’t either/or. Both have their own independent perks. That being said, Canadian gun laws are pretty low on my personal priority list, save maybe getting rid of hand guns.
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Mar 15, 2019 15:28
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xtal posted:The New Zealand guy also made a car bomb and talked about making a dust explosion out of flour, so there are some other things we can ban while we're at it Cars can be used to drive to work, flour can be used to make food Guns are for killing things only
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Mar 15, 2019 15:28
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xtal posted:The New Zealand guy also made a car bomb and talked about making a dust explosion out of flour, so there are some other things we can ban while we're at it gently caress off with this bullshit.
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Mar 15, 2019 15:29
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No, no, xtal's right. We should ban private vehicle ownership. For safety.
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Mar 15, 2019 15:41
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I have to work the closing shift tonight and I swear to God any customer who starts talking about New Zealand and making it about gun ownership is getting thrown out of my store. I get enough old codgers coming in to complain about how biased to the left all of our political book section is before they buy their nth copy of Jordan Peterson's rag. Anyone who wants to start a conversation about how it was the Muslim's own fault is getting the boot.
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Mar 15, 2019 16:07
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I think we have to address two issues simultaneously: first, guns are bad and we should endeavour to remove them as completely as practicable from our society. Second, regardless of whether you want to talk about specific types of guns and their respective dangers, too loving much of our gun violence in the developed world is based around random bullshit, terroristic massacres, and other things that point to a profound sickness in our society, and that isn't solved simply by getting rid of guns, although getting rid of guns would be a good first step in terms of limiting the damage. I was in Guadalajara last week, and I actually happened to see a guy get shot perhaps 40 feet away from where I was standing. It was shocking. But at the same time, pretty much everyone there told me "calm down, it didn't happen to you, it wouldn't have happened to you, and it's not going to happen to you in the future." And sure enough it was some existing dispute between two bad dudes who had already threatened to kill each other, and one of them was successful. That freaks me out less than getting pushed onto the C-Train tracks by some random meth-head or getting shot because you spilled some random guy's drink in a bar, or getting shot because some loving worthless incel can't get his dick wet and is out to kill people as a result. These acts, as well as mass shootings in the US, and terroristic attacks against mosques in Quebec and now NZ, are not about using violence as a tool to solve a problem (completely unacceptable, but at least slightly understandable), they are about making people suffer over a perceived slight or absolutely no slight at all. We need to address the gun problem, no question, but we also need to start taking a hard look at what makes such a large percentage of the violence in our society so random and pointless.
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Mar 15, 2019 16:14
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Arcsquad12 posted:I have to work the closing shift tonight and I swear to God any customer who starts talking about New Zealand and making it about gun ownership is getting thrown out of my store. I get enough old codgers coming in to complain about how biased to the left all of our political book section is before they buy their nth copy of Jordan Peterson's rag. Anyone who wants to start a conversation about how it was the Muslim's own fault is getting the boot. I'm seriously feeling a serious wave of depression and grief after this NZ one. I guess I hoped after the tragedy in Quebec, just maybe people wouldn't keep copying this sick poo poo. Just makes me feel terrible. What is so wrong with young men these days.
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Mar 15, 2019 16:15
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PT6A posted:
Its more complicated than this, but to simplify it, certain isolated young men are more antisocial and pathetic and hopeless than ever as our society is more insular and family structures worse, and couple that with internet communities that encourage hatred of (insert x group here) and spend all day fantasies about killing online, while other posters literally idolize the psychos who have already done similar tragedies, while CNN makes them celebrities with their mugshot on tv 24 hours a day. I'm not sure how you solve it though.
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Mar 15, 2019 16:18
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It's not young men exclusively. We're just more likely to act out impulsively. The wretched behavior of racists and white supremacists is embedded in generations of hatred. The old fuckers k have to deal with at the bookstore are just as much a part of the problem because they regurgitate their homophobic racist isolationist bullshit and expect everyone to listen to them because they're entitled fuckers. They engender this kind of behaviour in younger men who act impulsively and go on shooting sprees. It's young men committing atrocities for the sake of old bastards who have poisoned their minds with false rhetoric about the dangers minorities pose and how true masculinity can only be found wielding a gun
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Mar 15, 2019 16:21
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patonthebach posted:I'm pretty fed up with this poo poo and shared the same kind of sentiment after the Quebec shooting, but honestly the next 4chan psycho virgin who wants to get famous on CNN will just a shotgun instead and have similar causalities. And if somehow he cant get a shotgun, he will just rent a uhaul like the other incel guy. And then somebody who lurks without saying a damned thing hops in a van and kills 5.
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Mar 15, 2019 16:28
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CSIS can't even keep track of someone that they arrested and held in jail with the help of the RCMP then put in a specific place under house arrest and you expect them to monitor the internet?
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Mar 15, 2019 16:43
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How many greasy incels do you think could be turned into armed maniacs for $25 million?
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Mar 15, 2019 16:46
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flakeloaf posted:How many greasy incels do you think could be turned into armed maniacs for $25 million? I think Lowtax has other plans for his windfall
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Mar 15, 2019 16:51
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DariusLikewise posted:CSIS can't even keep track of someone that they arrested and held in jail with the help of the RCMP then put in a specific place under house arrest and you expect them to monitor the internet? Of course not. That's CSEC's job.
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Mar 15, 2019 16:56
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CSIS and the RCMP are too busy tripping over themselves trying to monitor the dangerous 'foreign funded' 'Indigenous sovereignty' movements who are 'anti-canadian' and 'anti-petroleum industry' while briefing corporate partners to protect anyone from actual terrorists.
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Mar 15, 2019 17:56
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As I understand it most of our anti terrorist infrastructure in those agencies are geared towards understanding terrorism to be against critical infrastructure. The laws we have are gray enough that they justify surveillance against activists that are working 'against' critical infrastructure like the oil industry by protesting things like fracking. That's evolved to conducting anti-terrorism efforts hand in hand with the oil industry to protect Canadian economic interests. We don't have ways to conduct surveillance massively against actually home grown terrorists who want to hurt people, because they're not important to CSIS or RCMP. Not that massive surveillance is a good measure either, chances are we police did suspect something they wouldn't have enough to act upon it. Information gathered through intelligence operations don't hold up in court that well because they're often obtained illegally or without reason, because police are investigating a future crime not one that's been committed. We should solve our social issues through comprehensive programs that make society a good place to live in. In the interim we should remove the means to easily commit mass murder.
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Mar 15, 2019 18:13
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Saying we should solve our social issues by making our society a good place to live in is stupid. Making society a good place to live in is going to necessarily involve greasy fuckin incels not getting laid, it's going to involve immigration, it's going to involve demanding that people put the interests of society ahead of their own whims, and that's going to generate the kind of anger that causes these fuckin pin-dicked assholes to go on shooting sprees or whatever. How the gently caress do you integrate these broken-rear end trashmen into a functioning society?
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Mar 15, 2019 18:22
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PT6A posted:We need to address the gun problem, no question, but we also need to start taking a hard look at what makes such a large percentage of the violence in our society so random and pointless. The violence isn't random. PT6A posted:How the gently caress do you integrate these broken-rear end trashmen into a functioning society? A functioning society doesn't have a place for xenophobia and toxic masculinity.
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Mar 15, 2019 18:23
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Raise a generation of critical thinkers who understand intermediate civics and can identify an echo chamber for what it is?
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Mar 15, 2019 18:26
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patonthebach posted:I'm more leaning towards crazy big brother monitoring at this point. Have a bigger team of CSIS monitoring 4chan and reddit incel etc and identifying the obsessive fantasy shitposters and finding out if they actually have the ability or resources to carry out attacks and start monitoring them more.
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Mar 15, 2019 18:27
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Random violence is the loving proud boys beating on people in the streets of NYC because they had no Antifa to go after. This was the opposite of random. This was planned and targeted. They knew exactly where to go and how to do it.
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Mar 15, 2019 18:30
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PT6A posted:Saying we should solve our social issues by making our society a good place to live in is stupid. Making society a good place to live in is going to necessarily involve greasy fuckin incels not getting laid, it's going to involve immigration, it's going to involve demanding that people put the interests of society ahead of their own whims, and that's going to generate the kind of anger that causes these fuckin pin-dicked assholes to go on shooting sprees or whatever. Wide availability of therapy, life counseling, free activities like sports, a society that expects young people to funnel into other physical recreation groups following high school so they don't get lonely, a job system that allows for that, wider classes at younger ages about responsible entertainment and internet use etc. Basically creating systems that prevent alienation and a robust mental health net that doesn't carry stigma. That would probably help.
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Mar 15, 2019 18:30
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flakeloaf posted:Raise a generation of critical thinkers who understand intermediate civics and can identify an echo chamber for what it is? You can do that but the problem isn't their 'logic' it's how they feel and how they fall into those circles.
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Mar 15, 2019 18:31
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Coxswain Balls posted:The violence isn't random. Yes and no. Even though it's clearly targeted towards Muslims, it's not targeted toward any one person specifically. That's a way more hosed up category of violence, in my opinion, than "hey, this guy purposefully did X to me, I'm pissed off and I'm gonna shoot him." Both are bad, obviously, but the ability to be brought to murderous anger against someone when they haven't even done anything significant to you scares me way, way more.
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Mar 15, 2019 18:33
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patonthebach posted:I'm seriously feeling a serious wave of depression and grief after this NZ one. I guess I hoped after the tragedy in Quebec, just maybe people wouldn't keep copying this sick poo poo. Just makes me feel terrible. What is so wrong with young men these days. Same. Hearing about young people marching and protesting government inaction on climate change this morning made me feel a little better tho
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Mar 15, 2019 19:12
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flakeloaf posted:Raise a generation of critical thinkers who understand intermediate civics and can identify an echo chamber for what it is? Nah we're gonna teach them back-to-basics maths
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Mar 15, 2019 19:47
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Worth a look, Jonathan Goldsbie takes a stroll through Canadian mainstream news media It's real bad
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Mar 15, 2019 19:54
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PittTheElder posted:I have not, but gently caress yeah IDEAS link. I actually think getting to carbon neutral fuel is much more important than people realize. It would mean we would be able to supply our current fleet of vehicles, not need to upgrade them all.
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Mar 15, 2019 20:34
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infernal machines posted:Worth a look, Jonathan Goldsbie takes a stroll through Canadian mainstream news media It's real bad A very careful look, maybe. Mr. Goldsbie's hot takes tend towards glib and shallow. He cherry picks mercilessly to feed sensationalistic blurbs. Always check his sources. He claims: quote:Here's a Vancouver Sun columnist offering a glowing writeup of a book about "the increasingly tense decline of white populations in Europe, the U.S. and Australia". The book warns that all of English Canada could become like Toronto: "A dynamic, low-cohesion, future-oriented society with an attenuated connection to its British and European past." The review concerns a book on the rise of western populism. Slamming a guy reviewing a book about populism because one of the driving factors of populism is fear over demographic shifts seems like a cheap shot. You say, "But maybe the author of the book has a sketchy history?" And you look him up and he's an academic whose ethnic herritage is a superposition of latino, chinese and jewish. Not a likely candidate to lead a white nationalist pogrom.
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Mar 15, 2019 20:40
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 If that's where you stopped reading, fair enough. There were other examples as well.
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Mar 15, 2019 22:12
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quote:The book warns that all of English Canada could become like Toronto: "A dynamic, low-cohesion, future-oriented society with an attenuated connection to its British and European past." This is... good?
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Mar 15, 2019 22:20
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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PittTheElder posted:This is... good? It's like the time conservatives in the US tried to frighten people with the spectre of "taco trucks on every corner." "BE CAREFUL, IF YOU DON'T VOTE FOR US, EXTREMELY GOOD THINGS WILL HAPPEN!" is frankly not what I expect would be a winning strategy, but people are dumb.
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Mar 15, 2019 22:22
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PittTheElder posted:This is... good? It is and "warns" is the wrong word to use given the actual context of the book. That's not a great take from Goldsbie
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Mar 15, 2019 22:23
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Looks like my super MP hit the hammer on the nail with this recent mailer then eh
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Mar 15, 2019 22:23
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Free Press in Canada is dead as long as cunts like Cheryl and the rest of the right wing rags continue to dominate the newstands. I really wish that someone could challenge Cheryl for Renfrew Nipissing Pembroke but the only person who had a chance last time was Jeff Lehoux and his campaign got split by Hec loving Cloutier. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 16, 2019 00:12
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PT6A posted:It's like the time conservatives in the US tried to frighten people with the spectre of "taco trucks on every corner." This kind of thing makes me more and more aware how far the gulf in our culture has grown. Like this isn't even a disagreement about the best way to solve problems that both sides acknowledge. This is both sides having sets of values so completely different to each other that they don't even agree on what the problems are. It's kind of scary knowing there are people around that see "immigration" as a problem that needs to be "solved" rather than like, a thing that (at worst) exists and in my more personal viewpoint is a net positive to society, and the most we should be arguing about are implementation issues.
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Mar 16, 2019 00:30
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I would target social media before I would target guns, trucks, knives, bats, or actual bats in order to curb violence. In a free society if someone really wants to harm people, they're going to figure out a way to do it.
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Mar 16, 2019 01:05
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