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Every "rich safe country" with strict gun control was made safer when strict gun control was implemented.
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Mar 15, 2019 15:45
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I saw some posts about the situation in NZ. They have some decent gun control rules but (particularly the south island) have an issue with a huge number of very dangerous guns in unregistered circulation. Not entering the fray or anything but I thought it might be worth mentioning since the topic is hot and absolutely horrifying
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Mar 15, 2019 15:49
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patonthebach posted:Can you tell me what countries have a gun violence level and gun availability like the USA that had an effective gun ban? Canada had similar amount of guns per household and their gun control did some good, but they had a multiple of less violence. Australia is really not a good comparison as they had way less guns. The UK was never like America and had less guns and less violence. So you don't agree that the United States is a rich and safe country?
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Mar 15, 2019 15:49
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patonthebach posted:Can you tell me what countries have a gun violence level and gun availability like the USA that had an effective gun ban? Yeah I can find a country with gun violence and gun availability like the USA where gun control reduced gun violence, it's the USA https://www.vox.com/2019/3/8/18254626/mass-shootings-gun-violence-laws-study
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Mar 15, 2019 15:51
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Jerry Cotton posted:Every "rich safe country" with strict gun control was made safer when strict gun control was implemented. Does it? gently caress, Australia had a higher number of homicides for up to 6 years after their gun control measures. It lowered in 2003 after seven years of the new laws, but its part of a global trend in developed countries of lower violence. SimonCat posted:So you don't agree that the United States is a rich and safe country? Crazy rich. The richest. Pretty safe in 95% of areas. But it has a homicide rate that has always been like 2-5x the level of other rich,developed countries like Canada or UK or Australia. Maybe USA is "safe" but its frequently compared to developed countries which in comparison are ultra-safe.
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Mar 15, 2019 15:53
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VitalSigns posted:Yeah I can find a country with gun violence and gun availability like the USA where gun control reduced gun violence, it's the USA I'd agree with whatever you think the most restrictive gun laws already enforced in a state are. If you think what any particular state is doing that is a good start, I'd support it. The gun laws are too permissive in the USA.
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Mar 15, 2019 15:55
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patonthebach posted:Crazy rich. The richest. Pretty safe in 95% of areas. But it has a homicide rate that has always been like 2-5x the level of other rich,developed countries like Canada or UK or Australia. Maybe USA is "safe" but its frequently compared to developed countries which in comparison are ultra-safe. So, by your definition, a gun ban should work here.
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Mar 15, 2019 15:56
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patonthebach posted:Crazy rich. The richest. Pretty safe in 95% of areas. Hey where are these school shootings and concert massacres happening? Like which part of the USA
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Mar 15, 2019 16:04
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VitalSigns posted:Hey where are these school shootings and concert massacres happening? Like which part of the USA The part with guns.
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Mar 15, 2019 16:05
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Groovelord Neato posted:the poverty argument is silly (even though it is accurate) because the same people who want gun control are the same that vote to alleviate poverty while the people that are pro "gun rights" are the opposite. That's not an accurate characterization of the politics of all gun owners in the US because it erases the left-wing/socialist view of the right to bear arms. It is however an illustration of how effective the "gun rights" lobby has been at making US gun culture seem to be a white nationalist monolithic voting bloc. There's no inherent reason why wanting to hunt or do target shooting or practice self-defense should mean someone wants to eliminate the social safety net and be generally regressive and racist, yet that's the image the NRA seems to love projecting (while saying they can't be racist because they have a black friend despite their conspicuous silence on Philando Castile's murder).
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Mar 15, 2019 16:07
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gun ownership correlates heavily with political party in this country. i think it might even be the number one indicator.
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Mar 15, 2019 16:09
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VitalSigns posted:Hey where are these school shootings and concert massacres happening? Like which part of the USA Those still occur in strict gun control countries sadly. Hell, even in countries where semi autos and such are illegal, there are mass casualty terrorist incidents all the time. When you are talking about prevent gun violence you are talking about 3 main types, with different ways to lower each. 1 - Gang related / drug related gun crime - Which the majority of is caused by illegal,unregistered guns, which wouldnt have a large effect from gun control 2 - Domestic violence gun crime - Which the majority is committed with legal guns, which would have a good benefit from stricter gun control laws (however there are already many on the books about this that aren't enforced today sadly, for example the texas church shooter should have prevented from buying guns per laws already enacted) 3- Mass shootings / Terrorist attacks - Which the majority of lone wolfs commit using legal guns, which might be reduced with some gun control measures, but the majority of the young men who commit these crimes in the west would have passed a standard background check. The other problem with these incidents is that we have found if guns aren't available they will just use cars or trucks.
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Mar 15, 2019 16:11
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Groovelord Neato posted:gun ownership correlates heavily with political party in this country. i think it might even be the number one indicator. I'm not sure it's #1 but there's certainly a significant correlation: https://www.statista.com/statistics/249775/percentage-of-population-in-the-us-owning-a-gun-by-party-affiliation/ (I don't know how reliable those data are, it's just the most recent one I could find) Evidence of very successful waging of a culture war by the NRA, which is not really a gun rights organization as much as it is a white nationalist SuperPAC/doomsday cult. They call themselves a "gun rights" organization in spite of their support for a president who has literally proposed taking away guns without due process. Apollodorus fucked around with this message at 16:16 on Mar 15, 2019 |
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Mar 15, 2019 16:13
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SimonCat posted:So, by your definition, a gun ban should work here. From a totally experience based position or whatever, it is noticeable that the US has lots of mass shootings (more than ten times Australia as a very crude population guage). We still have rogue guns and poo poo, but our system was fine enough that when we cancelled semi autos it worked quite well at removing them from the system. My understanding in the US is that the state's rules matter greatly, is there a way individual states can at least try to shore up their situation wrt particular guns or general gun ownership?
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Mar 15, 2019 16:16
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JBP posted:is there a way individual states can at least try to shore up their situation wrt particular guns or general gun ownership?
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Mar 15, 2019 16:19
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The inconsistency in state laws is a big part of why Chicago has the high rates of gun violence that it does--Chicago and Illinois may have relatively restrictive laws, but Chicago happens to be just around the corner from Indiana where the opposite is true. For instance. I know the Founding Fathers or Framers or some other dead white dudes really liked the idea of states being able to determine their own legal codes (so that Virginia could have slavery while Massachusetts had abolitionists who nevertheless loved their inexpensive cotton underwear) but I think the Civil War showed that we really don't need to be married to that idea.
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Mar 15, 2019 16:19
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patonthebach posted:Those still occur in strict gun control countries sadly. At lower rates
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Mar 15, 2019 16:27
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Rent-A-Cop posted:They can do everything short of an outright ban. NY, for example, has effectively banned semi rifles (and accidentally criminalized police when they did it). The law is widely ignored because NY is a poo poo state full of idiots. Man before that last sentence I was like what a two for
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Mar 15, 2019 16:31
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Apollodorus posted:The inconsistency in state laws is a big part of why Chicago has the high rates of gun violence that it does--Chicago and Illinois may have relatively restrictive laws, but Chicago happens to be just around the corner from Indiana where the opposite is true. For instance. those laws were mostly struck down too.
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Mar 15, 2019 16:32
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Criminalizing police sounds good I hope New York kept that part in
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Mar 15, 2019 16:32
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Yeah I think there is a lot of evidence showing that they shouldn't have guns.
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Mar 15, 2019 16:42
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Apollodorus posted:Yeah I think there is a lot of evidence showing that they shouldn't have guns.
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Mar 15, 2019 16:46
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patonthebach posted:I thought America had a gun violence problem? Did they already solve it? Or is Chicago having 20 bodies a weekend still? I live within a few blocks of where MS13 was founded, the US is a country that should have no problem effectively controlling guns. edit: The biggest danger around here is the LAPD having guns.
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Mar 15, 2019 17:39
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I would like to point out that the "Is America really safe??" idiocy was asked in response to whether a gun ban would work. I politely suggest that anyone asking whether gun laws can work in an area made unsafe by gun crime go gently caress themselves. What, precisely, is the alternative being offered to areas deemed "unsafe"? Abandon the rule of law in Chicago? Just go full Escape from New York with it?
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Mar 15, 2019 20:19
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Unoriginal Name posted:Abandon the rule of law in Chicago? Just go full Escape from New York with it?
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Mar 15, 2019 22:07
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https://twitter.com/AntiFashGordon/status/1106664257666646016
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Mar 16, 2019 00:15
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Man it's wierd how gun fetishization and white supremacy keep crossing over.
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Mar 16, 2019 00:22
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Jaxyon posted:Man it's wierd how gun fetishization and white supremacy keep crossing over. https://twitter.com/sciam/status/1106567317549391873
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Mar 16, 2019 00:56
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at this point I'm not sure how one could argue against the banning of all semi-automatic weapons as a bare loving minimum. If you truly need a firearm for hunting or protection, a pump-action shotgun or a revolver are more than sufficient to accomplish those goals. Hell, even if you only want a gun as a overpriced incredibly dangerous toy, a bolt-action rifle can let you cosplay WWII all you want.
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Mar 16, 2019 01:23
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https://twitter.com/davidmackau/status/1106657393952415750
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Mar 16, 2019 02:20
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I am absolutely shocked. That they only found one
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Mar 16, 2019 08:20
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https://twitter.com/shannonrwatts/status/1106769955444293632
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Mar 16, 2019 15:21
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A minister promises something does not mean a law was passed in less than 24hours. The conversation is poo poo in the US and it’s not really helping to be willfully naive about what’s happening in NZ.
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Mar 16, 2019 16:18
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Do we have any details whats going to happen to all the semi auto guns in circulation in NZ? Are they grandfathered? Buy back? etc
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Mar 16, 2019 18:19
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Not even going to give thoughting and/or praying a chance?
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Mar 16, 2019 18:34
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VitalSigns posted:Not even going to give thoughting and/or praying a chance? It’s what the shooter would have wanted 
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Mar 16, 2019 22:46
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patonthebach posted:gently caress, Australia had a higher number of homicides for up to 6 years after their gun control measures. It lowered in 2003 after seven years of the new laws, but its part of a global trend in developed countries of lower violence
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Mar 18, 2019 04:01
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Uncle Khasim posted:Do you have a source on this? I can’t find one.  https://www.factcheck.org/2017/10/gun-control-australia-updated/
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Mar 18, 2019 04:28
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Our problem was never ongoing gun violence. It's familial violence. The stats for a drop in gun murders would be more relevant and even then the buyback was about preventing possible mass killings, not day to day gun crime E: yeah it's in the article detail -57% almost immediately on gun murders. JBP fucked around with this message at 04:36 on Mar 18, 2019 |
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Mar 18, 2019 04:34
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I've always found it pretty interesting how relatively pro-gun people locate the root of American gun violence to violence itself rather than guns. It's a point I can understand and get on board with in some ways, but the way they treat controlling the availability of guns as a completely impossible task, yet somehow addressing all mental illness and violence as somehow more achievable confuses the gently caress out of me. One is an extremely long-term logistical challenge, the other is a systemic sociological problem with no clear root cause or solution.
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Mar 18, 2019 12:12
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