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Kemix posted:The fact Vaan was the main protagonist because they thought Basch wasn't engaging/attractive enough to sell the game on his own still pisses me off. FF12 had a LOT of bad choices, but the Vaan/Basch one was probably the worst of the lot...so much beginning padding... This is one of those "Oft repeated, not actually sourced" things. The protagonist being an older man was shelved before any production had begun. But while elements remain, the story of FFXII changed a lot from inception to release https://archive.rpgamer.com/news/Q4-2003/112003a.html quote:Square Enix has confirmed new details about Final Fantasy XII's stars, the young male Vaan, and the young female Ashe. Vaan, a resistance fighter, is a thief from the Dalmaska Kingdom who dreams of soaring the skies as a sky pirate. Meanwhile Ashe, the heir to the kingdom of Dalmaska's throne, is a princess and only daughter of the king who recently passed away. Basch was, in fact, the last of the protagonists to be conceptualized and even revealed to the public (The order goes Vaan, Ashe, Fran, Penelo, Balthier, then finally Basch) But at some point the story shifted away from Ashe's mercenary group to what we actually get. And Vaan went from someone directly working with Ashe to someone without purpose (Literally, as that's his story arc, finding out that without revenge, he has nothing to live for, and he needs something) FFXII's development was a shitshow, but there's a lot of ... misunderstood 'facts' from it. mostly due to a series of Telephone that... much like anything got twisted.
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Mar 17, 2019 16:11
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And I feel like some of the 'Vaan is bad because he's made for eyecandy' is kind of a residue of resentment from certain parts of the fandom mad about the increasing amount of women getting into the series since 7 and on. Like yeah, Vaan's story could've been made stronger, or they should've just made Ashe the protagonist, but there's definitely a huge element of hearsay and smearing going on.
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Mar 17, 2019 16:18
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Robindaybird posted:And I feel like some of the 'Vaan is bad because he's made for eyecandy' is kind of a residue of resentment from certain parts of the fandom mad about the increasing amount of women getting into the series since 7 and on. Vaan is very much the Locke of his game. Except FF6 is way stronger in doing its "Ensemble piece" story, mostly because the game was comfortable throwing you into chunks of the game where you were divorced from chunks of your party. Where as with FFXII, we're always from Vaan's perspective when... again, he's closer to Locke in being a support-protagonist for Ashe who's the driving force of the plot.
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Mar 17, 2019 16:25
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Sordas Volantyr posted:Question: Would YOU want the protagonist of a JRPG to have an high pitched, intentionally overblown* Australian accent? Because Vanille would be far more likely than Fang to get the nod in that scenario, and I don't know how much of that voice a lot of people can take. Vanille is actually an interesting character, and I never found her voice to be obnoxious. She also chills out with it later on so that helps. But honestly? I'd take just about anyone as the lead in that game over Lightning. Lightning actually is detrimental to the plot by being the protagonist because she distracts away from the *actual* important elements of a story that could've been interesting if they managed to tell it properly. Not saying FF13 is without flaws, it has a hundred, but it had the material for something neat until it became Lightning Waifu Marketing Game.
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Mar 17, 2019 16:29
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ZeusCannon posted:I dont know what even the stupid gently caress is going on in that image but i am angry. It'd be one thing if the entire game was cheesecake, or if the character herself was even slightly out there. But no, she's probably the most serious party member and most of the game clearly uses some historical reference in its costume designs. Like even the Viera have a consistent aesthetic that doesn't seem out of place with their role in the setting, and they are a race of 6 feet bunny women who refuse to wear anything that isn't bikini armor. The outfit being revealing isn't bad, you could totally take desert nation princess/queen character in that direction. What we got though is just confusing.
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Mar 17, 2019 18:39
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Accordion Man posted:Shocker was straight up founded by Nazis, akin to Marvel's Hydra. Yeah, and there's even been a few episodes where we see an alternate universe of Shocker ruling the world...which is ALSO a Hydra thing, haha. Regarding Karin, I feel like her outfit is some...leftover circus deal. That's what it looks like to me.
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Mar 17, 2019 19:44
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Sordas Volantyr posted:*Her VA, while definitely Australian even in normal speech, apparently got told to super exaggerate it during recording I have to wonder, did this come about because they consider Pulse to be "down under"?
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Mar 17, 2019 19:51
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Marmaduke! posted:I have to wonder, did this come about because they consider Pulse to be "down under"? Localizers settling down, having a meeting Lead: So we have these two characters who come from a wild untamed land where everything is huge and wants to kill them, how should we voice them? #1: Australian? #2: Australian. #3: ...Australian. #4: Australian! Lead: Fine the meme answer wins
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Mar 17, 2019 20:32
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Robindaybird posted:And weirdly, both Nomura and Yoshida's designs are way better in non-FF games - TWEWY actually looks stylish even if every character needs to gain a few pounds and Yoshida did Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together which looks nice, it's something about the FF that brings out - that. I would argue one of the reasons Nomura's design work better in TWEWY is because the whole game's setting and atmosphere suits the designs. The game takes place in Shibuya which is supposed to be a trendy hotspot for lots of stuff including fashion. I would also say the modern day setting helps it not stick out as much. The skinny artstyle looked fine and more like they were stylizing it,not trying to make them look like an actual human. InfiniteDreamer fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Mar 17, 2019 |
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Mar 17, 2019 21:17
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InfiniteDreamer posted:I would argue the reason Nomura's design work better in TWEWY is because the whole game's setting and atmosphere suits the designs. The game takes place in Shibuya which is supposed to be a trendy hotspot for lots of stuff including fashion. I would also say the modern day setting helps it not stick out as much. The skinny artstyle looked fine and more like they were stylizing it,not trying to make them look like an actual human. honestly yeah, just in KH/FF - Nomura's designs are utterly, utterly ridiculous and looks bad.
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Mar 17, 2019 21:40
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Marmaduke! posted:I have to wonder, did this come about because they consider Pulse to be "down under"? I would honestly recommend watching Dark Pixel Gaming's(on YT) videos on 13 for more info(since he does a whole series detailing every aspect about the game) but basically FF13's localization wasn't handed as carefully as it should've been. They basically made one the biggest mistakes they could've made and decided to localize the game by translating it as literally as possible.They were trying to match the Japanese script word to word.
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Mar 17, 2019 21:54
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InfiniteDreamer posted:I would argue one of the reasons Nomura's design work better in TWEWY is because the whole game's setting and atmosphere suits the designs. The game takes place in Shibuya which is supposed to be a trendy hotspot for lots of stuff including fashion. I would also say the modern day setting helps it not stick out as much. The skinny artstyle looked fine and more like they were stylizing it,not trying to make them look like an actual human. I found TWEWY so atrociously designed,I didn't care for its charm at all and quit.
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Mar 17, 2019 21:59
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I don't remember much about FF12 at all because I thought it was a really terrible faux-MMO but the one thing I do remember is that Vaan and the female Vaan (can't remember most of the character names from that game (and I don't even remember Ashe at all  )) is that they were both completely worthless as characters and have pretty much zero plot relevance. As in, you could remove them entirely from the game and you'd lose absolutely nothing from the story. That's a pretty sad state of affairs for the characters who are supposedly the main protags.
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Mar 17, 2019 22:19
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...! posted:I don't remember much about FF12 at all because I thought it was a really terrible faux-MMO but the one thing I do remember is that Vaan and the female Vaan (can't remember most of the character names from that game (and I don't even remember Ashe at all I mean, Ishmael isn't the main character of Moby Dick, he's just the way we see it.
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Mar 17, 2019 22:26
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Vaan's purpose boils down to existing purely so that 40 hours in Ashe can turn around and go "wait, you see the force ghost of my fiance too!?" "You can see the force ghost of my absolutely not nobility brother knight!?" Vaanette doesn't even have that. As for not remembering Ashe, it might be because her concept art I think is blonder than it is in game?
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Mar 17, 2019 22:39
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Vaan is a vital character to Ashe's development, you'd lose what I'd say is the most important part of the story without him. They probably could have played up him being the stand-in for the common people a lot more though, and left out the Wesley moments. But of course they couldn't because executive demands.
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Mar 17, 2019 22:40
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Shadow Hearts Covenant: the Final Fantasy Megathread's LP Subforum Branch
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Mar 17, 2019 22:44
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So, I wonder what Yuri is going to punch next!
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Mar 17, 2019 22:52
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So, fun story, I knew and played the game Chaos Wars before Shadow Hearts. Since Chaos Wars features Shadow Hearts characters, they were my first ever experience of any of the characters. The way they chose to portray the characters is the dub was such: https://youtu.be/BAtC1SzWSXg Imagine my surprise when I was exposed to Shadow Hearts and found out that Yuri wasn’t called Uru and wasn’t a flaming homosexual and Karin wasn’t spelt Karen and wasn’t in a constant state of being high on Xanax.
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Mar 17, 2019 23:32
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Junpei posted:I mean, Ishmael isn't the main character of Moby Dick, he's just the way we see it. I like this sentence
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Mar 17, 2019 23:40
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jimmydalad posted:So, fun story, I knew and played the game Chaos Wars before Shadow Hearts. Since Chaos Wars features Shadow Hearts characters, they were my first ever experience of any of the characters. The way they chose to portray the characters is the dub was such: Chaos Wars was an interesting case where they knew almost nobody's that's going to buy the game care about the dub but with policy at the time it was required, and not having time or budget, the president of the US branch literally got his family to voice every single character.
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Mar 17, 2019 23:44
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"Tengaio", in case nobody knows, is the Japanese name of Seraphic Radiance. They kind of took liberties with its English name, else they'd have to call it something like "Heavenly War King." Tallgeese fucked around with this message at 00:06 on Mar 18, 2019 |
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Mar 18, 2019 00:04
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InfiniteDreamer posted:I would honestly recommend watching Dark Pixel Gaming's(on YT) videos on 13 for more info(since he does a whole series detailing every aspect about the game) but basically FF13's localization wasn't handed as carefully as it should've been. They basically made one the biggest mistakes they could've made and decided to localize the game by translating it as literally as possible.They were trying to match the Japanese script word to word. This is what really gets me bent out of shape about game localizations. It's a pity that a large part of the possible audience for games (and anime/manga for that matter) have a quasi-fetishistic view of the Japanese language that views as blasphemous anything that isn't a 100% word-for-word translation of the Japanese script.
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Mar 18, 2019 00:28
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Tallgeese posted:"Tengaio", in case nobody knows, is the Japanese name of Seraphic Radiance. Alright, but here's the thing- Heavenly War King sounds kind of bad rear end. Even if it's more of a title.
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Mar 18, 2019 00:39
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The actual kanji used for it has the translation roughly becoming something akin to "Triumphant Heavenly Firebird." I personally like Seraphic Radiance better just for the sound of it, but you know the official translation is wrong if only because there's no way in hell Dehuai should be summoning anything "seraphic" given that he's a Taoist living in China.
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Mar 18, 2019 00:50
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MachuPikacchu posted:This is what really gets me bent out of shape about game localizations. It's a pity that a large part of the possible audience for games (and anime/manga for that matter) have a quasi-fetishistic view of the Japanese language that views as blasphemous anything that isn't a 100% word-for-word translation of the Japanese script. I remember when some sperg got incensed about the "liberties taken" with the script in Final Fantasy 6's English localization and released a patch that changed the translation to word for word. I read a bit of his translation and it was horrific gobbledygook that made little to no sense in English. I wonder what that guy thinks about things like "you spoony bard!"
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Mar 18, 2019 00:53
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or how Touhou's dialogue makes absolutely no loving sense in english because it's almost all pun-based, and the weapons grade idiots thought a literal translation is more 'faithful'
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Mar 18, 2019 00:57
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Yeah, literal translations bad. Which is why Falcom's translations for all Ys games pre-8 and all the Trails of games pre CS 3 are amazing translations!
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Mar 18, 2019 01:07
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Shitenshi posted:The actual kanji used for it has the translation roughly becoming something akin to "Triumphant Heavenly Firebird." I personally like Seraphic Radiance better just for the sound of it, but you know the official translation is wrong if only because there's no way in hell Dehuai should be summoning anything "seraphic" given that he's a Taoist living in China.
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Mar 18, 2019 01:56
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I'm personally split between faithful translations and ones that get the point across while retaining the game's charm. There's nothing wrong with tweaking dialogue to make it sound better in other languages, as long as it keeps the tone and impact of the original. Then you have badly done ones that, while make the game playable and "understandable" in another language, add in unnecessary dialogue or replace dialogue with memes to replace jokes that otherwise wouldn't work, in inopportune places.
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Mar 18, 2019 02:46
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literal translation gave us persona 5 don't be persona 5
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Mar 18, 2019 02:51
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Accordion Man posted:Seraphic Radiance also fits better because its reinforcing what they were going for; the original Jewish interpretation of angels looking like cosmic horrors like flaming wheels within wheels covered in eyes instead of the eventual Christian interpretation of androgynous pretty people with wings. No, that's the Christian interpretation too. Read the New Testament sometime. Hell, just read Revelation on its own if you really want to read about cosmic horrors. The whole beautiful angel thing is a pretty recent phenomenon, much like the modern day pretty boy white immaculate Jesus. That's not how the Bible describes him at all and wouldn't even make any sense given the location and historical period. Yet that weird interpretation is what a lot of people hang on their walls.
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Mar 18, 2019 03:48
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Oxxidation posted:literal translation gave us persona 5 Important to note for people who don't already know: the literal translation in Persona 5 was not something the people translating it even wanted to do, Atlus insisted upon it (I have no idea why).
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Mar 18, 2019 04:21
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Kemix posted:I'm personally split between faithful translations and ones that get the point across while retaining the game's charm. There's nothing wrong with tweaking dialogue to make it sound better in other languages, as long as it keeps the tone and impact of the original. Then you have badly done ones that, while make the game playable and "understandable" in another language, add in unnecessary dialogue or replace dialogue with memes to replace jokes that otherwise wouldn't work, in inopportune places. That speaks more about the talent of the localization team than anything arbitrary, and the only difference being they wouldn't gently caress it up quite so badly by being held to a direct translation.
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Mar 18, 2019 04:39
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"Faithful" or "literal" translations which "preserve the feel of the original" as you often hear said are largely a myth to be honest, Japanese and English are so fundamentally different that there's always going to be changes and compromises and the overall tone and feel is pretty much always going to be quite different between the two simply because it's different between the languages themselves. Like yeah you can stick to as many of the original words and phrases as you can but even then it's not going to be the authentic Japanese experience some people pine for, it's just trying to fit pegs into holes they don't fit in. You can do your best to emulate it and do cool things with English instead, but that requires skillful localizing instead of direct translating and that's genuinely difficult work.
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Mar 18, 2019 10:10
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What's more, the idea that "faithful" translations are inherently "literal" translations is flawed. Rule #1 of translation is that you translate ideas, not words. Sometimes that means translating a sentence literally, and sometimes that means coming up with an alternative that produces in the reader of the target language the same impression as what was felt by a reader of the text in the original language. Sometimes that means coming up with something completely different from the original (big ups to my main man Fawful). There's a speech by Umberto Eco that touches on this topic. In it, he cites an Italian translation of the book Alice in Numberland. In this book there is a chapter where Alice and the character Ramshackle have a humorous exchange in which Alice inadvertently helps Ramshackle make a pun on the word "ostracism" by confusing it with the word "ostrich". The Italian translation got hung up on the words of the original text and the ostr- prefix, and the result was an exchange where Alice and Ramshackle talk about ostracism and how oysters are always sticking their heads in the sand (to match the Italian words for ostracism and oyster, "ostracismo" and "ostrica" respectively). Eco's point was that he would have changed the structure of that exchange completely to make the joke come across for Italian audiences. Another example of this phenomenon is the differences in the translations of the Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam produced by Edward Fitzgerald and Edward Heron-Allen. Heron-Allen's translation is extremely literal whereas Fitzgerald's is a lot more free. Heron-Allen's translation is boring and dry and nonsensical whereas Fitzgerald's translation is a better representation of what the Rubaiyat actually is: poetry. To come back to game localization, I've seen reddit posts that actually do a word count of the original and translated textdumps of a game and cry foul over the fact that the English text has fewer words. I've seen YouTube videos that say that anything other than a direct, literal translation of a game's text is a form of censorship. I've seen people say that the localization of EarthBound was bad. And it makes my blood boil. Anyway, how 'bout that Yuri, eh? Heck of a guy.
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Mar 18, 2019 11:14
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MachuPikacchu posted:
I remember when my spirit wasnt broken and i would protest no way these people exist. Also yeah that Yuris a real punch up
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Mar 18, 2019 12:24
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I'd like to reiterate that changing Yuri's name was a fantastic dub change. Also I much prefer Lenny over his original name, Rene. Lenny fits his whole Mad Max villain minion motif far better than any kind of French name.
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Mar 18, 2019 14:20
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What was Yuri's name originally? I know it was mentioned in the first thread but a reminder would be nice.
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Mar 18, 2019 16:52
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Brainamp posted:What was Yuri's name originally? I know it was mentioned in the first thread but a reminder would be nice. I think it’s what was in that video that was linked earlier: Uru
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Mar 18, 2019 17:01
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