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Odddzy posted:Edit : upon reading on the schedule, the classes are one hour for your age bracket twice a week. It's not a lot. Depending on price I wouldn't go considering the options on when I could go look really limited. Our school has adult classes available every day of the week except Sundays which is great because life happens and sometimes you can't make your normal classes.
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Mar 19, 2019 04:51
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slidebite posted:Didn't even see that. I agree, that's not a good schedule or a good sign to be honest. Makes me think there aren't enough other senior black belts/instructors to help teach. I wonder why? Because he lives in kinda the middle of nowhere Louisiana (Don't take that the wrong way OP, I have no idea about anything LA related outside of New Orleans). I don't think it's really a hotbed for BJJ. The only other school I found is about 20mins away and has a less credentialed head instructor with only brown belts underneath him.
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Mar 19, 2019 05:16
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Went for a session of the Judo club nearby (the only one). Can someone more experienced tell me if this sounds worth? Started off with a long, long warm-up. Situps, burpees, rolling, running, leg lifts. Then ukemi at different states (sitting, then squatting, then standing). Then did a few minutes of ground work at like 25%. I'm coming off a few sessions of BJJ where half the class is rolling, so I tried to go hard here and found all the students really like the north/south position. Then the coach went through a few drills where he taught the steps to some throws, but not actual throwing. The class ended with 2 judoka walking around each other, practicing the throws a few times, then actually throwing. No randori. The student were 2 green belts, a white belt and her white belt daughter, and what looked like a little 15 yo yellow belt in the adult class. Does this sound like the typical judo class? I noticed there was no randori (this time). I plan to go back tomorrow night. It's $65/mo., no contract, and he doesn't sell any judogi - he says just snag one online. It's one hour classes on Mon & Wed. I kind of wanted longer sessions... There was no weird TMA "use your ki" stuff, but the dojo is rented out on Tues/Thurs to so Rex Kwon Do dude with a 'stache who teaches "Minami Ryu Jujitsu", which immediately made me eyeroll. Edit: The BJJ school is like 50% drills, then the instructor goes and sits down and we do 5 5-minute rounds of fully resisted rolling. I'm considering dropping it because... well, I feel kind of thrown to the wolves. Other students sometimes tell me how to defend a kimura, or where I should grip the gi, but none of the fundamentals are learned in drills. The drills are mostly complicated armbars, umaplata (sp.), head triangles that I can't do in live rolling yet. I'm rolling with white belts who mostly lay on top of me and sap my energy, I don't know how to escape and mostly just frame up and try to not panic. There's a few purple belts, and I've seen 1 black belt and 2 brown belts. It's $150/mo. You can go to as many classes as you like across all of his gyms, but that means travel - you could do Mon/Wed at Gym 1 and Tues/Thurs at Gym 2 and nogi on Fri if you really wanted. gently caress it sucks here for martial arts. The only other BJJ place talks about how Godly they are and how they inject Christian values into grappling.This isn't a snipe at religion, it just seems... out of place in that enviornment. Again, wish we had Kyokushin here or a Judo gym that would do like 90 minute sessions 2-3 times a week and have Randori every meet. Firstborn fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Mar 19, 2019 |
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Mar 19, 2019 23:08
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That sounds like the white belt classes I did. If the class is taught ukemi from a sitting position, they're not ready for standing randori, imo.
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Mar 19, 2019 23:26
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This is just the adult class, though. I don't know if the guy has any belts above a green under him.
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Mar 19, 2019 23:38
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Bjj is super hard emotionally at first because of all the few techniques you know that are all spread out and you don't get a lot of opportunities to try them when the other person resists. I would recommend you get some basics instructional on the side like the roy dean one to watch during offtime. It can help ease the curve bit. Trying to find someone that can match your energy output and roll at like 20% intensity can help you roll at a speed where you can make mistakes but think a bit and feel how and why things aren't working.
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Mar 20, 2019 01:34
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Combat sports in general are pretty hard for new guys. They can teach you armbars, framing, shrimping, triangles, whatever but, The application of these things though just come by going out there and getting beaten up and trying the stuff you've learned. Eventually one day you'll start to notice that there are people you can beat and people you can't instead of just the later. It's pretty weird, and that moment is awesome. A year or so later and you're taking the belt mummy picture on SA* and waxing poetic about new people in BJJ and telling white belts to work on fundamentals only and eating acai. *assuming goons actually saved the rec center and bought Lowtax a new spine.
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Mar 20, 2019 02:03
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I believe it was fatherdog (rip) who said all bjj internet posting is blue belts telling white belts what to do. Add some acai and there ya go.
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Mar 20, 2019 02:16
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If you are coming into BJJ with no experience and getting smashed by everyone that tells you something. BJJ is a system that works,
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Mar 20, 2019 10:44
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If it was me coming into a group like that (and I have come into groups like that,) it would tell me that they are poo poo at actually introducing newcomers to the style and are more interested in showing off. The point of proper sparring in a training session isn't to hit someone with techniques far in excess of their possible ability until you win, because winning shouldn't be a consideration here to begin with. I wouldn't pay 150$/month for that, is all I'm saying. I've never specifically done BJJ, though, so take that for what it's worth. Cardiovorax fucked around with this message at 11:15 on Mar 20, 2019 |
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Mar 20, 2019 11:04
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So I shouldnt scissor sweep my partner repeatedly and let them learn how to base so people who are shittier at said common sweep cant sweep them in tournament or on DA STREETZ?
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Mar 20, 2019 14:07
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I hear and understand both sides. Thank you for the insight, goons. Think I'll stick with Judo for the time being, though. Went this morning to what I guess was my final BJJ class, and rolled a round with another white belt who had been going only 5 other classes. He tried to pass my guard into side control and ended up tweaking something in my back pretty good... probably because nobody taught us anything fundamental. He didn't know what he was doing, either. Anecdotal, but with so many students and gyms, kind of wish he had a beginner course for people who don't strictly try to take cues from UFC as far as what to do. I also asked for help with videos and stuff earlier, but I kind of feel that for that $, I shouldn't have to seek out so much on my own. Entitled? Wrong? Probably both. Thanks for the responses, though. If anybody wants to know how Judo goes tonight, i'll post it up. I'm excited to see. E: RE: "Showing off". We had an odd number of people today, so at one point someone had to sit out. One brown belt at the end of the gym goes, "don't anyone volunteer to sit out!", so I started to approach him and was hoping he could teach me as a senior student. Another white belt grabbed my arm and said, "don't go over there, it's awful, he's was just trying to hurt me". The white belt is someone who did some BJJ in the military and is probably really advanced for his belt, and actually tried to show me a few things, which felt odd but was informative, at least. Later in the locker room brown belt goes, "finally I'm the senior student, tired of getting my rear end kicked" which I can imagine is a good feeling, but... yeah. Firstborn fucked around with this message at 14:15 on Mar 20, 2019 |
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Mar 20, 2019 14:13
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if the judo classes are only an hour long, i could see why you might not do randori every class period. the place i go to meets twice a week for 2 hours each, and we normally alternate doing randori once a week or twice a week. Randori is great, but it kinda seems to my newbie orange belt self that my randori will stagnate pretty quickly if we don't have some classes that focus more on drilling the fundamentals. Like, if you're skipping randori to focus on uchikomi, that's probably just as good use of your time.
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Mar 20, 2019 14:36
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We have a 90 minute class that includes 20-30 minutes of randori every time, though that time doubles as kata practice and technique study for rank tests for people who want to do that.
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Mar 20, 2019 14:38
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Firstborn posted:Another white belt grabbed my arm and said, "don't go over there, it's awful, he's was just trying to hurt me". I mean, seriously, unless this was very obviously a joke that just doesn't come across here, that just sounds hosed up as hell and I don't know why you'd willingly go back there ever.
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Mar 20, 2019 16:30
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Cardiovorax posted:...uhh, aaaaaalright, yeah that's one of those things where I would decide to just go "bye bye, been nice, see you never" and walk out, because I don't sign up to let some weekend ninja act out his anger issues on me on the mat. Well, that happened today. I cancelled after I left. The white belt who grabbed my arm was the guy with military experience, and he was a very genuine guy, very serious about getting better, and helped a lot of the guys who just started a lot. I didn't take it as a joke when it happened. He didn't give any indication. More about this guy, in the last roll he did I was next to him, and in the final 30 seconds (there's a bell that rings for final30, then a bell to stop), the brown belt caught the guy in a sub I never saw before where he basically had his neck between his thighs, and wouldn't stop after the bell. The white belt got up visually straining, etc., and the guy did ask if he was okay but.. I know every gym probably has these superninjas with egos in it. Firstborn fucked around with this message at 16:40 on Mar 20, 2019 |
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Mar 20, 2019 16:34
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quote:Well, that happened today. I cancelled after I left. The white belt who grabbed my arm was the guy with military experience, and he was a very genuine guy, very serious about getting better, and helped a lot of the guys who just started a lot. I didn't take it as a joke when it happened. He didn't give any indication.
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Mar 20, 2019 16:43
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It felt mostly like a fight club / freestyle wrestling thing, because the techniques people used was stuff they found on Youtube or saw through osmosis. I'm mostly looking for an asskicking cardio to pair with my lifting, and I thought it'd be cool to learn something along the way. I have a hard time pushing myself unassisted into the kind of sweat I can break out into during these classes. I'm not sure if it's the best judo place ever, but I want to train something, and my options are: Anywhere from 3-10 Shotokan karate places with little kids on the websites in black gi doing flying kicks and instructors in tennis shoes with mustaches. A BJJ gym that injects Godly values and has a head instructor younger than me with dubious credentials that didn't take much searching to find. (I am also skeptical of places that teach multiple styles, this is one of those "JUJITSU/KENPO/KARATE" places) A Judo gym with a very small number of newer students. A BJJ gym I've been bitching about for two pages that probably teaches you how to be tough and I'm a pussy A literal Ninjitsu dojo with the head instructor having an IMDB page where it says he was "martial arts consultant" for 4 episodes of one of the newer runs of the Ninja Turtles cartoon (not bullshitting). http://thedojocovington.com/ https://www.imdb.com/name/nm5872595/ I was wrong, it's a staggering 26 episodes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-RG_BdA-fw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19Fpc-zuvYY A celebrity is teaching in my town hahahaha, holy poo poo Firstborn fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Mar 20, 2019 |
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Mar 20, 2019 16:51
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If you're not invested in any particular style and can't find anything more Eastern in your region, try the Western styles like classic boxing. In terms of sheer competence at workouts and conditioning, they're definitely superior, because they're actually a professional competitive sport where most people posting here live, and that filters down a little - former pros and semi-pros turning to teaching, that sort of thing.
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Mar 20, 2019 17:05
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Firstborn posted:Well, that happened today. I cancelled after I left. The white belt who grabbed my arm was the guy with military experience, and he was a very genuine guy, very serious about getting better, and helped a lot of the guys who just started a lot. I didn't take it as a joke when it happened. He didn't give any indication. This kinda poo poo is extremely out of line, especially coming from a brown belt. I don't know the area, but that wouldn't fly at any gym I've ever trained at and you are completely correct to avoid that place. It's a lovely intro to jiu-jitsu and not the norm, there are lots of good gyms with friendly environments out there. Try not to let it sour you on grappling too much. e: You have to go to the Ninja Turtles dude's place and report back Dave Grool fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Mar 20, 2019 |
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Mar 20, 2019 19:18
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Here's the thing about jiu jitsu, unless your school has a very well developed fundamentals class, it's kinda on you to work on the fundamentals during live rolling. That means asking your partner to teach you something rather than just spar. Rolling is fun, people like to try out moves they learned on the internet and incorporate them into their game etc. Communication with your partners is really important. That being said, the brown belt sounds like a dickhead. Vida BJJ is close to you and maybe worth checking out to see if the atmosphere is better. Cardiovorax posted:I've never specifically done BJJ, though, so take that for what it's worth. Yeah so you really have no understanding about what you're prattling on about.
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Mar 20, 2019 19:35
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Not sure how I missed that Vida place. Could be interesting. Thanks for the response.
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Mar 20, 2019 19:43
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JaySB posted:Yeah so you really have no understanding about what you're prattling on about.
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Mar 20, 2019 20:12
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JaySB posted:Here's the thing about jiu jitsu, unless your school has a very well developed fundamentals class, it's kinda on you to work on the fundamentals during live rolling. That means asking your partner to teach you something rather than just spar. Rolling is fun, people like to try out moves they learned on the internet and incorporate them into their game etc. Communication with your partners is really important. That being said, the brown belt sounds like a dickhead. nah dude. if the guy that owns the gym or one of his trusted circle isn't teaching you the basics and making sure you don't get hurt it's not just bad jiu jitsu, it's bad business
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Mar 20, 2019 20:24
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firstborn, sorry about the hellword you inhabit. I feel like your intro to BJJ isn't indicative of how things are run in most legitimate places and hope this experience doesn't stop you from visiting a more established gym if you get the opportunity
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Mar 20, 2019 20:40
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My experience in boxing was that if some young buck decided to start throwing hard in sparring then someone much better than them would put them in their place. It doesn’t sound normal at all for a brown belt to be beating on people.
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Mar 20, 2019 21:01
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Fundamentals should absolutely be a big part of instruction.
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Mar 20, 2019 21:44
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mewse posted:My experience in boxing was that if some young buck decided to start throwing hard in sparring then someone much better than them would put them in their place. It doesn’t sound normal at all for a brown belt to be beating on people. Bjj, boxing. poo poo I trained at an aikido place and it basically didn't work but a pair of the black belts were a judo competitors and retired kick boxer who would take out the trash.
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Mar 20, 2019 22:27
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Cardiovorax posted:I'm p. sure your favourite style isn't actually that special and should be held to the same standards I've held anything else I've done so far, but hey, be an rear end about it if you think you really need to. I'm pretty sure my favorite style isn't special either but we're talking about bjj. Wangsbig posted:nah dude. if the guy that owns the gym or one of his trusted circle isn't teaching you the basics and making sure you don't get hurt it's not just bad jiu jitsu, it's bad business The two things are separate but also very important.
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Mar 20, 2019 23:43
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What the hell are the fundamentals to grappling anyway? What can everyone use regardless of body type, opponent body type, rule sets, clothing sets, streetz or not. I mean framing is useful to learn, but it's not really gonna lead to submissions without knowledge of specific attacks or passing of the guard some how. ukemi is good, but when you're already on the ground it kinda loses usefulness. Shrimping is great, but pretty drat useless in mongolian folk wrestling.
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Mar 21, 2019 00:49
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Defenestrategy posted:What the hell are the fundamentals to grappling anyway? Balance, positioning your center of mass and contact points with the ground to achieve efficient leverage, be aware of where your body and opponent's body are without looking. Stuff that is not specific to certain techniques, but that you will achieve by drilling and rolling a lot.
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Mar 21, 2019 02:14
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I was hoping for like... going through the positions, maybe how to do some sweeps from different positions, how to defend from people changing positions. Went to my 2nd Judo class tonight if anybody wants to hear those adventures: Long warm-up, but didn't seem as long as last time. Lots of ukemi. Went right into groundwork. Got to do some rolling with the instructor, which was fun. From there, the class did randori with the instructor consecutively, maybe 15~ or so successful throws. Nobody got close. He didn't throw anybody with authority like he could, he was pretty much all technique. Some of the students are brick shithouse level swole or limber enough that I winced during stretching. Coach is probably 60+, and looks a bit like Malcolm Mcdowell. He often paused to tell them how to adjust what they were doing. Then the students did randori with each other, and he watched and would pause and offer advice to things. It felt instructional. I didn't randori and didn't expect to at day 2, and the coach didn't bother to ask for my payment at the end. He just said it's good to have someone to train and everyone was glad I came back.  Happy endingtldr last 2 pages: i'm too soft for bjj but the gentle way is my jam Firstborn fucked around with this message at 04:08 on Mar 21, 2019 |
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Mar 21, 2019 04:04
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Firstborn posted:I was hoping for like... going through the positions, maybe how to do some sweeps from different positions, how to defend from people changing positions. Unless you're going to a strict fundamentals class that's not gonna happen and it doesn't really look like that's viable at either gym. As I said, your best bet if you decide to go back, is to explain to whoever you get paired up with for rolling that you'd like them to teach you some basics. Pick up what little bits of information you can and try to absorb it for the next partner. Or just take a private lesson. Either of those are just watch a ton of fundamentals/concepts videos online. If you enjoy judo, stick with it.
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Mar 21, 2019 04:14
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The whole discussion about more advanced students dominating junior ones in sparring has got me thinking about striking vs grappling. I have this idea of a safe shutout, where the advanced student uses really good tactics to keep the junior from really getting any offense off, and staying on defense the whole time. In a shutout, you don't have to be hitting hard, just enough workrate and finding open targets to constantly work the junior. So a shutout can be unproductive / not optimally educational for the junior student, but it's safe (there's always gonna be the accidental running into a strike, but). For striking, the other dimension of unproductive is putting hard power into open shots. The more often you do that to a significantly less skilled partner, the more of an rear end in a top hat you're being. I feel like there's a comparable safe shutout mode in grappling. But I'm not sure what the analogs to hitting harder than you need to are. Higher amplitude takedowns? Really rough crossfaces? Pulling really deep on locked subs? In both cases, a productive session when there's a big mismatch is for the advanced student to take pauses to let the junior try some stuff out. React more slowly or more telegraphedly. Show good defense so the junior has to use better technique.
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Mar 21, 2019 04:43
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kimbo305 posted:
I do this now with lower belts I'm comfortable with, basically just counter all their moves and flow from position to position dominating them but never really applying pressure or going for a finish. Or if they're defending/moving well I'll let them sweep and work a position for a little bit before I counter.
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Mar 21, 2019 04:58
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Find a mentor
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Mar 21, 2019 09:23
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Wangsbig posted:nah dude. if the guy that owns the gym or one of his trusted circle isn't teaching you the basics and making sure you don't get hurt it's not just bad jiu jitsu, it's bad business Not BJJ, but in our TKD classes the junior belt dictates the pace of the match. It's easy enough to get hurt in a legit, well run class. That sounds awful.
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Mar 21, 2019 14:20
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Firstborn, you were right to quit the BJJ place since you didn't feel safe or comfortable there. That said I generally agree with both JaySB and mechafunkzilla. Fundamentals should be a key part of what is taught but many schools aren't big enough to run pure fundamentals classes. Also I note that partners in BJJ have an absolute safety obligation to one another and should always roll safely and respect the tap; however, a senior student that is not an instructor has zero obligation to teach anything to a junior or to let them work when sparring. It's a nice thing but not a necessary thing. By requiring the more experienced student to let the junior student set the pace and work their game you're essentially saying that the time is the junior student's time and that is a hindrance to development of the more senior student. People should generally roll with people more, less and equally as experienced and in rolling with less experienced students the more senior student can work more offensively and work on learning and refining techniques that a more equal or senior student would shut down. The junior student may experience it as being dominated and wonder what the senior student is getting out of it but it is key to refining the techniques live. I used to think BJJ was for everyone but I no longer believe that.
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Mar 21, 2019 14:54
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Yuns posted:however, a senior student that is not an instructor has zero obligation to teach anything to a junior or to let them work when sparring. It's a nice thing but not a necessary thing. I agree. A reasonable split would be 50/50, where I let you try your stuff for 1.5min and then I go to work in the last half, basically using you as a moving punching bag and just not landing hard, working on combo timing and setups. Just because you feel dominated doesn't mean the dominator isn't improving on their end. At our gym, we definitely said "man, I got really destroyed" to talk about being outskilled, and not about being hurt or being unnecessarily roughed up. Just an observation about how people treat martial arts as a sport.
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Mar 21, 2019 15:39
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Yuns, you don't feel bjj is for everyone, can you explain why you've come to this conclusion? I don't necessarily disagree, just interested in your experienced viewpoint.
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Mar 21, 2019 17:35
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