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Alan_Shore posted:This is reminding me of those people who were furious when some games called easy mode "baby mode" or whatever. Get a grip. I generally agree with the "if the developer wanted the game to be hard then that's an intended part of the experience" argument, but comparing video games to movies or board games kinda misses the point of the complaint. Yes, it's perfectly possible to be terrible at a board game, but that doesn't keep you from seeing all the pieces. You can completely miss what a movie's trying to say, but you don't have to pass a quiz at the end of the second act before you get to see how the story wraps up. It's why video games are the subject of this discussion pretty frequently but nothing else is: because most other skill-based activities aren't also reliant on a drip feed of content. Something like Tetris 99 gets to be as hard as it wants because everything a player is going to see is right up front, but one of Cuphead's biggest selling points is its beautiful art, and if you don't pass a skill test you simply don't get to see a lot of it. This was an issue with older arcade games as well, but the solution there was pretty simple: let people play as long as they can pay, and reward good players with a space on the high score board. It's where this brand of difficulty came from in the first place. Like I said, I think if difficulty is a core part of a game's design, that's a legitimate design goal. But I think it's fair to say that "difficulty" means something very different in the context of narrative video games than it does in the context of other media, or other games / sports.
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Mar 21, 2019 12:44
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Cuphead has an easy mode, it's called YouTube. It's also meant to be a throwback to old-school games, including with the Easy difficulty not containing the full game. Funnily enough, reminded of the sequel to Gunstar Heroes (a game that Cuphead takes heavy inspiration from) where the plot was fleshed out more, becoming darker and more complex, on higher difficulties. I'd rather have more games built around being hard than what we end up with where publishers are terrified of not appealing to the broadest possible demographic so everything is hand-held, bogged down with mandatory tutorials and becomes trivially easy unless you crank up the difficulty, which the game wasn't built around so it just ends up with the same tedium but with bigger numbers.
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Mar 21, 2019 12:50
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Has Just Dance Unlimited been down for anyone else? It's been down for two weeks, and Ubisoft won't respond. It works fine if I play in offline mode, so it must be something on their end.
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Mar 21, 2019 13:29
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I can beat rock monster with the P shooter, I think I'll be fine at cuphead
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Mar 21, 2019 13:29
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DorianGravy posted:I picked up Blaster Master Zero 2, and it seems pretty rad so far. Any game that lets me travel to different planets gets a plus in my book, and it's neat to get maps and reveal new places to go. The areas aren't huge, but there's still a nice sense of exploration. I only played about two hours so far, but the difficulty feels about right and I'm enjoying both the tank and on-foot sections. Anyone else get it? I made it up to sector E last night before stopping for the night. I enjoyed a lot of it except for planetoid C-1. Because what everybody wanted was more janky ladder-grabbing-jumping levels Gameplay-wise they made a bunch of improvements, like quick-shortcuts for favored weapons in the tank and on foot, and Wall-jumping is a nice mobility addition for the tank. kefkafloyd fucked around with this message at 13:32 on Mar 21, 2019 |
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Mar 21, 2019 13:30
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Sam Faust posted:for reference: are we still certain that this isn't actually a video of a machine learning algorithm trying to learn to play?
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Mar 21, 2019 13:40
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I didn't mean to contribute to the hilarious ongoing "should games be allowed to be hard" debate, because of course they should lol, Cuphead devs had a vision and stuck with it. Doesn't mean the game isn't an unfun slog with a pretty aesthetic, but devs have every right to make it that way and don't owe their audience anything really. Someone else said it best, if you want an easy mode to Cuphead just watch it on YouTube - then you don't have to play it or buy it but still get to enjoy the visuals.
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Mar 21, 2019 13:45
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The best solution would be to ban all video games.
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Mar 21, 2019 13:49
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Mega64 posted:The best solution would be to ban all video games. 
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Mar 21, 2019 14:00
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Alan_Shore posted:It's a game. You can lose at games.
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Mar 21, 2019 14:01
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Quantum of Phallus posted:Games should be as difficult as their developer wants. They made the game. Any argument against this is insanity. Buildings should have stairs as steep as the architect wants. They made the building. Any argument against this is insanity.
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Mar 21, 2019 14:05
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I never said that video games couldn't be hard. My point was a video game shouldn't ONLY be hard. Cuphead could have both its current and an easier setting without compromising their vision. They could even include a statement like a bunch of games do like "For the intended experience, play on this difficulty!" when you select the difficulty at the start of the game. As for movies being difficult... the bar of entry for being able to watch a film is just being able to sit down and watch it. You may not understand, or enjoy, a film, but it's not hard to experience a film. Being able to engage with and understand a specific film might be intentionally difficult (like Tarkovsky's entire oeuvre) but there's nothing holding anyone back from attempting to understand it. Watching a video game is very much not the same as playing it because video games are inherently interactive. That isn't to say that you can't enjoy watching someone playing a game (I really enjoy watching commentated speedruns) but it's not the same experience at all. asecondduck fucked around with this message at 14:09 on Mar 21, 2019 |
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Mar 21, 2019 14:06
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Imagined posted:Buildings should have stairs as steep as the architect wants. They made the building. Any argument against this is insanity. What the gently caress kinda retort is this
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Mar 21, 2019 14:10
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Imagined posted:Buildings should have stairs as steep as the architect wants. They made the building. Any argument against this is insanity. This is probably the single stupidest analogy I've ever heard in my entire life congrats
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Mar 21, 2019 14:10
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Cuphead has an easy mode, it's called YouTube. Yep, Double Dragon 2, released on the NES in 1988, did this. It was only frustrating when you didn't realize what it was doing.
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Mar 21, 2019 14:11
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Tons of old games did it to stop you beating it in a single rental.
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Mar 21, 2019 14:13
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Cuphead would be better with gyro controls and breakable finger guns
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Mar 21, 2019 14:14
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Here's a good article that articulates my thoughts on easy modes better than my lovely posting does: https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2017/10/03/cuphead-simple-mode/RPS posted:[...]In my experience finishing a game when I had the option of making things easier for myself can actually be more rewarding than if the possibility of dialling down the difficulty hadn’t been on the cards. It means I can look back at those moments where I nearly buckled, and be all the more glad that I persevered. Not everyone’s mind will work that way, but if an all-access easy mode can increase the enjoyment of both people that don’t want a challenge and a subsection of those that do, it starts to look like a no-brainer RPS posted:The problem is that for every person that does end up playing on the harder difficulty and enjoying themselves, there will be many other people who never try it or lose interest in advancing when they do. The decision to cut content only makes sense then if the total enjoyment of people who do shift towards regular difficulty is greater than that of the much larger number of people who would get to see everything that the game has to offer through a full-content easy mode.
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Mar 21, 2019 14:14
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BattleMaster posted:are we still certain that this isn't actually a video of a machine learning algorithm trying to learn to play? Nah dude it's a real pigeon. He's smart as hell.
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Mar 21, 2019 14:16
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If you don't like reading here's a nice video by one of my favorite youtubers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NInNVEHj_G4
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Mar 21, 2019 14:17
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Video games can't be rude or antagonizing towards you, a sentient creature, unlike my lovely posting
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Mar 21, 2019 14:18
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Over There posted:If you don't like reading here's a nice video by one of my favorite youtubers: This is a good video.
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Mar 21, 2019 14:22
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i think people are confusing "games should have color blind mode" accessibility with "games should be beatable by everyone regardless of how much work they want to put in or how good they are" "accessibility" which is dumb
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Mar 21, 2019 14:26
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this is more like the accessibility where someone would call a film with no traditional narrative "non-accessible"
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Mar 21, 2019 14:26
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I've seen YouTubers who are honestly pretty bad at videogames work their way through cuphead.
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Mar 21, 2019 14:26
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this thread needs a difficulty selection because it isn't very accessible
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Mar 21, 2019 14:31
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asecondduck posted:Here's a good article that articulates my thoughts on easy modes better than my lovely posting does: https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2017/10/03/cuphead-simple-mode/ RPS posted:[...]In my experience finishing a game when I had the option of making things easier for myself can actually be more rewarding than if the possibility of dialling down the difficulty hadn’t been on the cards. It means I can look back at those moments where I nearly buckled, and be all the more glad that I persevered. Not everyone’s mind will work that way, but if an all-access easy mode can increase the enjoyment of both people that don’t want a challenge and a subsection of those that do, it starts to look like a no-brainer That line right there is the epitome of RE4's NG+.
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Mar 21, 2019 14:31
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Also holy gently caress nuclear throne!!! I had lost all hope and all of a sudden they just drop it? Sorry gungeon and dead cells, you're fun games but y'all can go back to the b-list where you belong Big boy in the house
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Mar 21, 2019 14:33
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I don't necessarily believe that all games should have an easy mode as an accessibility issue. I just took exception to the "arguing that the developer should do anything they don't want to do is insanity" argument. I also suspect that almost everyone with the "some games are just hard, deal with it  " attitude just happens to be an able-bodied, neurotypical person who doesn't have any kids and has never even considered the perspective of anyone who isn't like themselves.
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Mar 21, 2019 14:34
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as a parent, let me just say
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Mar 21, 2019 14:35
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Imagined posted:I don't necessarily believe that all games should have an easy mode as an accessibility issue. I just took exception to the "arguing that the developer should do anything they don't want to do is insanity" argument. not everything is for everyone I don't know what it is about games, like, if I listen to an album that's in a style I hate or don't understand I don't complain why they didn't make it more like the music I listen to, but the moment you make a game for a niche audience, instead of going "Well I guess that's not for me" it's all stuff like this
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Mar 21, 2019 14:37
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If your kids can't beat difficult video games then you've failed as a parent imo.
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Mar 21, 2019 14:45
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If at any point you've had the thought that Cuphead is too hard and that therefore this is Cuphead's problem, you're a tiny baby
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Mar 21, 2019 14:45
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asecondduck posted:I never said that video games couldn't be hard. My point was a video game shouldn't ONLY be hard. >But, Kirby is for kids Easy mode does compromise some game's vision. Just as Cranky Kong
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Mar 21, 2019 14:46
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Nintendo games are great for young children, my 5 year old has been able to beat New Super Mario Bros 2, Kirby Planet Robobot, Captain Toad, and Hey Pikmin with minimal assistance. Some of their games are way too frontloaded with reading though and don't really explain themselves visually very well. I think he could beat Link Between Worlds if the visual language was a bit clearer and all hints weren't a box full of text.
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Mar 21, 2019 14:46
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I like that we are in the git good phase
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Mar 21, 2019 14:47
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CharlestheHammer posted:I like that we are in the git good phase we aren't even that, there's like hardly been a better time to be into video games if you don't like difficult poo poo. past the AAA scene which is by nature marketed toward a big tent anyway, there are like options for just about every audience in the indie market.
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Mar 21, 2019 14:48
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CharlestheHammer posted:I like that we are in the git good phase Some games are about gittin gud.
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Mar 21, 2019 14:49
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Feels Villeneuve posted:not everything is for everyone I'm not arguing that there shouldn't be some barrier for entry for games. There's a small set of skills you have to have to play most games. My wife can't play most games because, for whatever reason, she can't wrap her head around the concept of moving a camera and the player character at the same time, and anything fast paced because she doesn't have the reaction time. But, on the other hand, she loves the SMT and Fire Emblem series because she has plenty of time to decide what to do and there's no camera. She can play Mario Party and Mario Kart and even Smash Bros because those games have very low barriers for entry (she's not brilliant at them, mind you, but she can still play with me and our friends and have a good time). The first video game I "beat" was Super Mario World, emulated through ZSNES with excessive abuse of save states. But the more of it I played, the more I learned about how to time jumps and the patterns and all of that. I removed a barrier of entry by giving myself infinite retries of a difficult section. Obviously that wasn't how the game was meant to be played, but I was able to learn and beat a game in a way that was a lot less frustrating than having to replay an entire half of a level, and now I can play and beat SMW without any save states (well, not Special Zone).
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Mar 21, 2019 14:55
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Has anyone in the thread picked up Nuclear Throne and tried it out? I've been wanting to give this game a shot but I've read that some of the other console ports of this game have bad bugs that were never patched out, and I'm a bit worried about getting burned by a lousy port job.
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