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zapplez posted:I for one love how polarized politics has become that now even the top 5% of countries in terms of freedom or human rights are in fact just fascist. Hm, yes, calling the country with active concentration camps fascist is absurd. I’m glad the pro-US-coup people are finally saying the quiet part loud.
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Mar 21, 2019 15:57
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Mr. Sunshine posted:One of the common themes among self-proclaimed fascist is that they consider fascism to be a third way between capitalism and socialism, a revolutionary restructuring of a decadent society that needs to be rescued from itself. And I agree that many of the magamen that support Trump would definitely identify with such an ideology. Probably Trump himself, if the idea could be explained to him in a childlike manner. It does if that state is a corporation. I mean, when's the last time Pence or his ilk took a principled stance for competition and monopoly-breaking? Also, if you really reckon fascism is anti-capitalist, you're going to have a lot of explaining to do about the economic structure of Nazi Germany. Darth Walrus fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Mar 21, 2019 |
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Mar 21, 2019 15:58
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Not a big fan of Umberto Eco's definition of Ur-Fascism. It's purely surface-level, about what fascism says about itself and its aesthetics. It focuses purely on ideas and has nothing to say about the political and economic roots of fascism, where it finds its mass base, what historical conditions give rise to it. I recommend reading "Blackshirts and Reds" by Michael Parenti on the topic of fascism: https://cartiparenti.files.wordpress.com/2016/08/blackshirts-and-reds-by-michael-parenti.pdf Aimé Césaire, Discourse on Colonialism: Césaire posted:And then one fine day the bourgeoisie is awakened by a terrific reverse shock: the gestapos are busy, the prisons fill up, the torturers around the racks invent, refine, discuss. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 21, 2019 16:06
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e: nah
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Mar 21, 2019 16:13
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hello if you are not posting about venezuela in this thread enjoy your state sanctioned time out a reminder: we're going up in penalties for every off topic/bad post if you haven't learned by the time you're hitting a month then I don't know what to say beyond 'post better' Party Plane Jones fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Mar 21, 2019 |
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Mar 21, 2019 16:44
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Palingenetic ultranationalism is the best definition of fascism imo and captures why it's so hard to define and amorphous. Fascism doesn't have a coherent universal framework like other ideologies. There are common themes and behaviors but its an idiosyncratic ideology with each instance having different mythologies they seek to retreat to and different pressures driving that retreat into fantasy. Germanic fascism, born of the collapse of the dreams and propaganda of Germanic Empire in WWI, was fundamentally driven to external expansion while the Americans with the most fascist tendency seek isolation and disengagement from the rest of the world. edit: typed this up before the post above and didn't see it before I hit submit. ill refrain from further comment
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Mar 21, 2019 17:07
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What might be the most interesting part of the arrest of the opposition chief of staff is they also arrested some 12 journalists and 2 engineers. Arresting more journalists seems pretty hosed up. https://www.vox.com/2019/3/21/18275688/venezuela-maduro-guaido-marrero-intelligence
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Mar 21, 2019 18:05
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zapplez posted:What might be the most interesting part of the arrest of the opposition chief of staff is they also arrested some 12 journalists and 2 engineers. Arresting more journalists seems pretty hosed up. They were all stockpiling guns and empanadas, you see
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Mar 21, 2019 18:12
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Discendo Vox posted:They were all stockpiling guns and empanadas, you see Traces of cyber were found.
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Mar 21, 2019 18:14
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In a terrifying echo of Operation Condor, the security forces of Guido detained and beat innocent protestors while Chilean police ignored them. https://twitter.com/gaaatoso/status/1108420518548525056?s=21
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Mar 21, 2019 18:15
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Speaking of the Condor years, Stuart Varney of Fox Business says the quiet part out loud, as is his wont:quote:Fox host asks "why not" have the CIA overthrow Nicolás Maduro I'm glad that the Cato dude thinks an invasion is a bad idea, but boy oh boy, the people who Trump listens to really want him to take Maduro out.
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Mar 21, 2019 18:36
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That face when the guy from the Cato Institute has to talk you down from your insane CIA wank fantasy.
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Mar 21, 2019 18:54
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uninterrupted posted:In a terrifying echo of Operation Condor, the security forces of Guido detained and beat innocent protestors while Chilean police ignored them. Nowhere in the video implies that anyone got beat and you drat well know it. Nevermind your insinuations of Guaidó having a secret police on a foreign country. The language of that post itself is loaded, the usual crap of calling any resistance to Maduro a "coup"
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Mar 21, 2019 19:31
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zapplez posted:https://twitter.com/OmeletteRed/status/1108576154917711873 Why do you have two accounts? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 21, 2019 20:36
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Judakel posted:Why do you have two accounts? You fell for obvious agitprop that the guy bragged about because it reinforced the narrative you wanted to hear, without any other sources involved than those conducting agitprop. In light of this recent post in this thread: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...s-idUSKCN1R11OE U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights Michelle Bachelet, Former President of Chile and member of the Socialist Party of Chile posted:Bachelet told the U.N. Human Rights Council that she had information, without elaborating, that the National Police’s Special Actions Force (FAES) had executed 37 people in January in Caracas in illegal house raids in poor areas supporting the opposition. The Maduro government is already having SEBIN round up opposition figures, and FAES is conducting extrajudicial killings of the poor in opposition areas to keep them in line. The truth of what the Maduro government, a murderous kleptocracy of armed thugs, will continue to be the truth no matter how much you want pretend otherwise. How many indigenous people, how many poor people, the grassroots of any challenge from the left, should be murdered or starved or die of sickness before you stop supporting the PSUV?
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Mar 21, 2019 20:59
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uninterrupted posted:In a terrifying echo of Operation Condor, the security forces of Guido detained and beat innocent protestors while Chilean police ignored them. Hey this was about a block from where I live! I agree that the cops here are loving assholes, and gently caress with protests tons. But as far as I can tell (I’m far from an expert), the people in suits look to just be the typical bodyguards (escolta policial) used for the president, congressional deputies, foreign diplomats, etc. They’re part of the cops, who far from ignoring this detention also participated. No other evidence supports the hypothesis that they are Guaidó’s goons. Also the protest took place over a long period of time, and while those two/three may have been detained, as far as I could witness, there was no large scale repression that the student communist groups usually suffer from. No water cannons or tear gas. So basically this appears to just be the typical “pacos culiaos” and not international Guaidó conspiracy stuff. I’d unironically love to see some concrete collaborating evidence however! My usual leftist Twitter sources aren’t up in arms like they’d normally be for what you claimed happened. Redczar fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Mar 21, 2019 |
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Mar 21, 2019 20:59
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Laphroaig posted:You fell for obvious agitprop that the guy bragged about because it reinforced the narrative you wanted to hear, without any other sources involved than those conducting agitprop. *posts video evidence* Umm, why didn’t those kids film themselves getting beaten? *white lady cites anonymous (i.e. made up) sources say Brown Man Bad* Maduro has Rejected Democracy and Decorum
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Mar 21, 2019 21:03
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uninterrupted posted:
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Mar 21, 2019 21:05
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Rent-A-Cop posted:"The U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights is a racist!" is certainly a take. Blindly believing someone because they’re white and have an impressive title is hella racist though, especially when they refuse to cite any sources.
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Mar 21, 2019 21:10
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uninterrupted posted:*white lady cites anonymous (i.e. made up) sources say Brown Man Bad* Her name is Michelle Bachelet and she was tortured under Pinochet’s regime. How are you going to claim that she is a Pinochetista/Pro-US intervention? Also everyone here up to two weeks ago was calling her a Maduro sock-puppet because she didn’t ignore all UN procedure and take an unauthorized trip to Venezuela. Pretty amazing how she went from comeguagua for one side to baby-sledgehammer for the other in the course of a week
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Mar 21, 2019 21:10
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uninterrupted posted:Blindly believing someone because they’re white and have an impressive title is hella racist though, especially when they refuse to cite any sources.
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Mar 21, 2019 21:11
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jesus gently caress who in their right goddamn mind believes that cops don't beat up on protesters??? ACAB, even cops of the revolutionary vanguard (lol at the idea that there is anything revolutionary about Maduro's regime and not yet another oppressive hierarchy that seeks to enrich itself) as well as cops in the employ of international capital.
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Mar 21, 2019 21:27
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Judakel posted:Why do you have two accounts? This has already been discussed in CSPAM but if you have any more questions go make a callout thread somewhere else. I'm not going to respond it in other threads and poo poo them up. I'm not the first that was caught with a lovely alt and I won't be the last. Lets keep the rest of this on topic k thanks
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Mar 21, 2019 21:59
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Rent-A-Cop posted:"The U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights is a racist!" is certainly a take. The *socialist* who attended Karl Marx University in the DDR is a reactionary racist, clearly.
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Mar 21, 2019 22:22
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zapplez posted:This has already been discussed in CSPAM but if you have any more questions go make a callout thread somewhere else. I'm not going to respond it in other threads and poo poo them up. Pro-US coup folks: blindly believe the virtuous whites and don’t believe the lying browns Also pro-US coup folks: make sockpuppets so they can argue with themselves in D&D
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Mar 21, 2019 22:26
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Laphroaig posted:You fell for obvious agitprop that the guy bragged about because it reinforced the narrative you wanted to hear, without any other sources involved than those conducting agitprop. I can't believe I fell for that. I just can't believe it.
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Mar 21, 2019 22:27
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Redczar posted:Her name is Michelle Bachelet and she was tortured under Pinochet’s regime. How are you going to claim that she is a Pinochetista/Pro-US intervention? I don't really remember much of anything about her, are you sure that was this thread and not like Twitter or something? otoh sometimes I miss a couple pages
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Mar 21, 2019 22:31
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Redczar posted:comeguagua To Cubans a guagua is a bus and I was very confused by this at first. In Chile guagua is a baby? Why do they say communists eat babies?
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Mar 21, 2019 22:38
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Gozinbulx posted:To Cubans a guagua is a bus and I was very confused by this at first. In Chile guagua is a baby? Why do they say communists eat babies? Guagua is indeed a baby. Coger una guagua means something very different here. I don’t know the exact origin. I think it’s just to make them seem more evil GreyjoyBastard posted:I don't really remember much of anything about her, are you sure that was this thread and not like Twitter or something? Sorry, I meant in Chile! My mistake for being too vague
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Mar 21, 2019 23:01
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uninterrupted posted:Hm, yes, calling the country with active concentration camps fascist is absurd. PR China doesn't call itself fascist, but the terrorist dude from NZ called himself fascist and said the closest IRL country to these political ideals is China. So I guess you are right.
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Mar 21, 2019 23:33
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Redczar posted:Guagua is indeed a baby. Coger una guagua means something very different here. That's actually p interesting then! as is the fact that she apparently eats buses
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Mar 21, 2019 23:53
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Its controversial to say, but I think Maduro is the legitimate president of Venezuela. Heres the supporting evidence: 1. The military still supports him 2. Hes in a better position to gently caress up the other guy I dont think Guaido really has a compelling argument for legitimacy until he can actually prove the constitutional argument that he has the ability to drone strike Maduro
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Mar 22, 2019 04:54
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Well, legitimacy is about legals status, and there's definitely a legal argument to be made that Guaido is the legitimate (interim) president of Venezuela. There's no denying that Maduro is the de facto president of Venezuela since, as you point out, he controls the military and the police.
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Mar 22, 2019 07:58
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Can you actually explain that argument that Guaido is the legitimate president? Every time I see that talking point it seems to focus entirely around 'Maduro being a bad president is the same as Maduro abandoning office' which is...not how things work legally.
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Mar 22, 2019 15:02
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sexpig by night posted:Can you actually explain that argument that Guaido is the legitimate president? Every time I see that talking point it seems to focus entirely around 'Maduro being a bad president is the same as Maduro abandoning office' which is...not how things work legally. 1. Maduro invented a new legislature from whole cloth to rubber stamp whatever he wants. 2. Maduro handed over control of civil institutions to the Army without the approval of the legitimate legislature. 3. Maduro rigged an election for himself. 4. All of the above represent a coup by the Army and PSUV 5. The face-man of a coup is not a legitimate president.
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Mar 22, 2019 15:08
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sexpig by night posted:Can you actually explain that argument that Guaido is the legitimate president? Every time I see that talking point it seems to focus entirely around 'Maduro being a bad president is the same as Maduro abandoning office' which is...not how things work legally. my understanding of the argument is that the national assembly has taken over the powers of the supreme court and have ruled that what maduro's done constitutes abandoning the office of the presidency, which under the constitution means the leader of the national assembly is now president. i'm not sure by what constitutional mechanism the national assembly can assume the responsibilities of another branch of the government, but that seems to be the argument for guaido's legitimacy
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Mar 22, 2019 15:09
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Rent-A-Cop posted:I believe the argument [for Guaido being the legal president] is: This is more or less true, but points 1, 2, 4 and 5 are not relevant to the constitutional discussion about Guaido being president. Essentially the AN is saying that since the 2018 presidential election was highly irregular*, the office of the president was abandoned when Maduro's term expired from his 2013 election. So the legal argument has nothing to do with Maduro being a bad ruler, it has to do with there having been no presidential election and Maduro's legal term having expired, i.e. the office is currently unoccupied, which requires the head of the AN to assume the position of acting president. *(which it was -- which is why the Carter Foundation and many others did not support it or blasted it, including the company, Smartmatic, that made the voting machines, e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Venezuelan_presidential_election ) E: IIRC: There are other reasons why the post is unoccupied, for instance the constitution requires the president to be sworn in to office in front of the AN, which he was not. It's also possible I might be confusing this with one of the many reasons why Bouteflika can't run again in Algeria, because he is not able to speak and thus can't be constitutionally sworn in. Ableism at its finest, saying stroke victims who can't speak or move can't be president. I can't wait for Maduro, that bastion of equality, to speak out in support of Bouteflika for the unfairness of the Algerian constitution. Saladman fucked around with this message at 15:23 on Mar 22, 2019 |
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Mar 22, 2019 15:17
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Simply put, - Maduro was elected in 2013 - The Nation Assembly elections of 2015 gave a supermajority to the opposition - during the lame-duck session the outgoing National Assembly confirmed a large number of new members to the Supreme Court in disputed circumstances - the new Maduro-controlled Supreme Court began invalidating every action taken by the opposition-led National Assembly in disputed circumstances - in order to further isolate the NA, Maduro convened a constitutional assembly in disputed circumstances - the subsequent 2018 re-election of Maduro to the presidency took place under, again, disputed circumstances as to the legality and conduct of the election The National Assembly has declared the vote invalid, that Maduro was not properly re-elected, and that upon the expiry of his 2013 term, there was therefore no legally elected President; the office was legally vacant, and the National Assembly duly declared it as such (which is a power reserved to the National Assembly by the constitution, much like impeachment in the USA). The rest follows - lacking a validly-elected President, the constitution states the leader of the National Assembly steps in as interim President until elections are held. Of course given the election board is controlled by Maduro supporters, they have not organized the required election, regardless of the National Assembly ordering it or not. So here we are. If you agree the 2018 Presidential election was invalid, Guaido is interim President by law. If you don't, he's not. Rust Martialis fucked around with this message at 15:25 on Mar 22, 2019 |
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Mar 22, 2019 15:23
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Rust Martialis posted:Simply put, the supreme court has said the office is not legally vacant though, and that the national assembly's interpretation is wrong what is the constitutional basis for the NA to override the supreme court?
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Mar 22, 2019 15:26
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Condiv posted:the supreme court has said the office is not legally vacant though, and that the national assembly's interpretation is wrong Do you hold the Supreme Court in high authority? Are they legitimate and hold the final word in the legality of actions in Venezuela?
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Mar 22, 2019 15:36
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