|
just lol at not knowing theres 2 bareses. must be an avid phonewatcher of the show extra lol that they're both involved in organized crime because of the show
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2019 22:40
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 14:17 |
|
|
pentyne posted:Literally the only time it gets referenced is when Ralphie gets a beating. Even when Johnny Sac beats up that guy it doesnt even get a mention. Although sometimes it's hard to tell 'made guys' from 'associates.' But even then like a lot of things with the Mob it depends on who makes the most money in the situation, I expect. Dawgstar fucked around with this message at 23:43 on Mar 21, 2019 |
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2019 23:34
|
|
|
In terms of Mikey taking a beating from Tony, I believe a large part of why that was overlooked was a combination of: - Jackie being on his deathbed meant nobody really knew who was in charge/what could be gotten away with - Junior had overstepped by killing Brendan and kidnapping Christopher - Nobody liked Mikey anyway - A war was brewing between Junior and Tony and nobody wanted to spark it off so they let the beating slide Of course as the show continues, we see more and more that basically all the talk about respect and doing things the proper way also only really applies to those lower on the totem pole, and the Bosses can basically do whatever the gently caress they want.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2019 23:46
|
|
|
Tony tells Johnny Sack that the guy he hurt lives with his mother, so if he was made it wasn't doing much for him. I think it's totally fitting that the 'no hitting made guys' thing is broken as flagrantly as every other piece of their code. In general it's obviously judged by morale, like, as Jerusalem just mentioned Mikey had been overstepping constantly in the power vacuum of Jackie's illness and the other captains were quite happy to see him take a kicking, whereas in Ralphie's case their expectation was implicitly that if you stuff that much money in Tony's pocket you're entitled to occasionally beat your pregnant girlfriend to death in a parking lot. It really is the grimmest plotline in a series full of them.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2019 00:15
|
|
|
I think it’s a matter of everybody pays lip service to the “rules” but in reality, whenever Tony or whoever complains about how things are different than the old days, they’re right. Typical baby boomers....taking everything their parents’ generation built, pissing all over it, and then complaining that things aren’t how they used to be.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2019 02:13
|
|
|
COMPAGNIE TOMMY posted:just lol at not knowing theres 2 bareses. must be an avid phonewatcher of the show What? I was mimicking Albert Barese’s habit of repeating the thing that someone just said.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2019 03:19
|
|
|
Kevyn posted:What? I was mimicking Albert Barese’s habit of repeating the thing that someone just said. That’s almost as funny as Paulie’s habit of immediately repeating a joke to a person right next to him. Did you guys hear what I said, i said that’s almost as funny as Paulie’s habit of immediately repeating a joke to a person right next to him!
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2019 03:24
|
|
|
Mahoning posted:I think it’s a matter of everybody pays lip service to the “rules” but in reality, whenever Tony or whoever complains about how things are different than the old days, they’re right. Typical baby boomers....taking everything their parents’ generation built, pissing all over it, and then complaining that things aren’t how they used to be. Agree 100% on this.There is such a "Baby Boomers are the worst generation of people ever produced" vibe to the entire show and once you "see" it you can't unsee it. It permeates everything.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2019 05:53
|
|
|
Jerusalem keep on doing what you're doing. Your posts are some of the best right now and I'm looking forward to rewatching the entire series as you go through it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2019 06:34
|
|
|
Season 1, Episode 5 - CollegeFather Intintola posted:What? To take in through the eyes a beautiful woman? Is that so different than a sunset, a Douglas Fir, or any of God's handiwork? The first four episodes of Sopranos have been good, in some cases really good. It helps to remember them in the context of the time, when probably the most notable drama series otherwise were NYPD Blue or Law & Order, and this new cable drama was really something special. Sure, Oz was around but that was weird experimental stuff with a tiny audience, while Sopranos - despite the nudity, swearing and outrageous violence - was still at heart a traditional television drama, just one that engaged in season arcs rather than an episode of the week feel. But this episode, only the 5th in the series, is something special beyond that. Probably the best single episode of the entire first season, and arguably one of the best episodes of ALL the seasons of the show. This episode elevates The Sopranos to something more, it more than any of the episodes that preceded it reminds me of the prestige drama we have today. It is tightly focused, with the A and B subplot sticking mostly with 2 characters at a time and cutting out most of the (wonderful) supporting cast. It builds on what has come before, sets a direction for what is to come, and ends with an utterly spectacular resolution as the two subplots crash together. The episode opens to the sound of bells, as Tony stands somewhat uncomfortably outside on a College campus in Maine: Bates College. Meadow exits the building and they begin discussing the College, they're currently touring her prospective Colleges in Maine. Her SATs have been sat and perhaps thanks to all that meth-fueled study she achieved high marks which give her a lot of options. Tony is alarmed to hear her mention study abroad programs in China and India, but more alarmed when she makes a joke about contraception. Mobster or no, while this is a proud time in any parent's life, Tony is like everybody else when it comes to being surprised and a little dismayed to realize their child is becoming an adult. Tony himself is no stranger to College, as mentioned smugly to Melfi he had a "semester-and-a-half" at Seton Hall. When Meadow presses him for an answer for why he dropped out, he notes his parents were working class and didn't stress College, but defends them by admitting he was largely to blame, he "got into a little trouble" when he was a kid. They leave Bates and start heading towards Colby, listening to the radio in silence for a bit until Meadow gets bored of station-surfing and decides to take the rare opportunity/isolation to ask a question that has obviously been bothering her for years now, and something Tony wants to hear less than talk of traveling overseas or having sex.   Tony is gobsmacked, horrified at the sheer openness of the question, let alone who it is coming from. At first her tries to laugh it off, playing off that his late nights and frequent disappearances are no different from Doctor Cusamano who lives next door. But she keeps pressing, reminding him of finding stacks of money and a gun while hunting for Easter Eggs, and is unimpressed by his efforts to claim he is a victim of stereotyping just because he's an Italian in the "Waste Management Business". They sit in uncomfortable silence, Tony's only other line a grumpy proclamation that there isn't even a Mafia in the first place... but finally he can't take it any longer. Gently, begrudgingly, he admits that some of his money comes from illegal gambling.... "and whatnot". That might as well be a full on admission though, which is what she takes it as, and he doesn't "correct" her. She's just happy that he didn't deny it like Carmela always does, and apparently it's a subject of conversation at her school where they all think Tony's status is cool. Proving just how uncool he is, he assumes they think of him in terms of The Godfather, but she explains 70s is in right now and they're thinking more in terms of Casino. The important thing is that this (kinda) open conversation between father and daughter actually proves a bonding opportunity, a chance for her to talk to her father openly as an adult (which she thinks she is and he doesn't want to accept). Her friends' fathers aren't exactly moral either despite having what are considered legitimate jobs, they're all full of poo poo but at least he told her the truth. He tries to downplay things again by saying part of his money does come from legitimate sources like the stockmarket, which is probably true, but that isn't what she wants to hear. She wants to be self-satisfied with getting her father to be open with her. They stop at a roadside gas station and Tony uses the payphone to make a call. You'd presume it is Carmela, but of course he's called Irina first. Irina isn't in a good mood though, raging because her amputee cousin Svetlana (wonderful, wonderful Svetlana) has only been in America 2 months but is already engaged to be married. Tony reminds her that she knew the score when they got together, but she won't stop moaning about how romantic Svetlana's fiance was (he carried her out of a Gap Store when her leg fell off!) and he makes an excuse to hang up and call Carmela instead. She's in a bad way, extremely sick which is why she isn't on this trip with the both of them. As Carmela asks how Meadow likes Bates, desperate to keep her from going to Berkeley, Tony frowns to see Meadow flirting with a couple of boys... but then frowns harder when he spots what seems to be a familiar face at the pumps. He hangs up on Carmela and approaches the man, who notices him coming and quickly drives away. Tony forces Meadow to get into their car and tears off down the road after the mystery man, freaking out Meadow as he puts on forced cheer and insists he maybe saw an old friend while weaving through traffic at speed and takes a right towards Waterville instead of a left towards Colby (the camera shaking here is laughably bad), blaming Meadow yelling for "confusing" him. Finally he forces himself to stop as Meadow gets more and more upset, as their motel is right nearby and he can't continue making excuses for his chase. Meanwhile, AJ's "bonding" with Carmela isn't going as well as Meadow and Tony's was earlier. He's made her a meal in bed and she's thrilled... until she breaks open the egg and sees it has gone beyond hardboiled into rubber. She pretends like she is feeling nauseous while he complains about all the hard work he put in, and when she sees how bored he is she cheers him up by telling him he can go over to Jason's and play Nintendo. He assures her he will be back in an hour and leaves her all alone in the house... for now. Christopher gets a call at the Bada-Bing and is forced to rush out in the rain to call Tony back at the payphone outside the motel (remember, it's 1999!). Tony tells him that the mystery man he saw MAY have been Fabian Petrulio, a Made guy who got busted for dealing heroin 10 years earlier, flipped and sent a lot of people to prison - a fact that Tony claims exacerbated the health problems his father was having at the time. While Fabian and Tony hung out a couple of times, he was really friends with Jackie who he did some brief jail-time with, even making him a bust once of Frank Sinatra with bad lips (Christopher thought it was Shaquille O'Neal). So what's he doing in Maine? Well if he's who Tony thinks he is, then he was kicked out of Witness Protection and now does College Speaking Tours to discuss the Mafia (they probably wanna know more about Casino and Goodfellas than The Godfather, too). Hanging up, he tells Meadow he just felt like taking a walk and gave Christopher a call on a whim, and quickly allays her suspicions by joking around with her about a leak in their roof. That evening at the Soprano home, a still sick Carmela hears the doorbell ring and is horrified when she hears it is Father Phil Intintola. Quickly rushing to do herself up from the sickly mess she is, brushes her hair and changes into a silken nightgown before letting him in out of the rain. That bad camerawork from earlier must have been because their best operator was busy on this scene, because the camera panning 360 around them as Carmela helps Father Phil out of his wet raincoat and pushing in closer and closer on them standing together does a fantastic job of already establishing the obvious sexual tension between the two. As she feeds Father Phil (which as always is her way of demonstrating affection), Tony and Meadow eat at a restaurant where Tony obvious pride in her leaves Meadow happy if somewhat unsettled. She is on that awkward line between being a kid and an adult, and Tony's own desire to have her remain a child and the pride he takes in the adult she has become (or is becoming) is difficult for both of them.   They talk like equals, or rather Tony affords her the respect to not treat her like a kid as they talk a little more about his "job" and he notes the trap his father and grandfather were in, and how it was perhaps laziness on his part not to have taken the opportunities he had to get out of it, opportunities that she now has and is taking. He tells her about his interests, how the only thing that truly interested in him in College was History (getting in a dad-joke along the way). it a nice, wholesome and bonding moment between them... and that all disappears in a second where Meadow takes it too far and misjudges/forgets the moment, opening up to him about her own secret: she was on Meth while studying for the SATs. Tony's reaction is about what you'd expect, he's furious and she's instantly a child again to him, as he demands to know where she got it. She's not going to tell him based on his reaction (more pique from her than an acknowledgement that Christopher was right and Tony would kill him if he found out he dealt to her) and he quite rightly asks her just how the hell did she think he was going to react? It's all well and good to think about how a reaction like this will cause your son/daughter to shut down, but you can't blame Tony for reacting emotionally at this news. They both manage to calm down and she assures him that it got too scary for her and she gave up on it, smart enough and not so far in that she was able to actually make that choice. Tony, meanwhile, his initial shock over, ponders how this could have been going on right under his nose. He mutters that he'd have thought he would know this was happening, and Meadow's answer is sad in just how accurate it is,"No, Dad. You won't." Remarkably, whether as a result of the therapy or the public environment they're in or because he genuinely feels that way, he maintains his temper and tells her that he is happy she felt she could tell him. She's happy too, after years of feeling alienated now that she (thinks she) is an adult, she's pleased to have such an open and honest relationship with him. Carmela could tell her all about how that would work out. Father Phil has built a fire (Carmela can't help but compare the two, Tony hates building fires) and sits on the couch with her to give her a copy of a book on various religions he had told her about at an earlier date. He appreciates the Buddhists and feels Islam has gotten a bad rap (they had no idea how bad things were going to get) though of course he doesn't want her converting. They drink wine and laugh together, just a man and a woman on a cold, rainy night in front of the fire while her husband and children are out of the house, what could possibly go wrong? At the restaurant, Meadow introduces Tony to two of the girls she saw laughing with some guys at the bar earlier. They're all College kids, the two girls go to Colby. Tony is thrilled, suggesting warmly (and somewhat desperately) that Meadow hang out with him (and not drink!) so they can tell her about the College. Giving her a big kiss on the cheek as she is mortified by how forward he is being, he tells her he'll be back in an hour and a half to pick her up and races out the door, eager to take the chance. He gets to lobby payphone and calls Christopher, who gives him the address of the plates he gave him earlier. They belong to Fredrick Peters who lives right there in Waterville, and the name sounds like a match to Fabian Petrulio to Tony. Christopher offers to fly up to take care of it, but Tony - waving to Meadow at the bar - says it is a job for Pussy or Paulie, their friend Jimmy died in prison because of Fabian flipping. Tony wants to be sure first though, he's going to go take a closer look himself before making a decision. Carmela and Father Phil continue to bond, as he helps her prepare more food in the kitchen and they discuss his upbringing in a mixed Jewish/Italian neighborhood. It's all very pleasant, until the phone rings and Carmela answers to discover Dr. Melfi on the other end, calling to let Tony know that she's sick and will have to cancel their next appointment. Dr. Jennifer Melfi. She asks a fuming Carmela if she can take down her number in case Tony doesn't have it.  Hanging up on a bewildered Dr. Melfi, she laments to a clearly concerned Father Phil that the only reason Tony wouldn't have told her his therapist is a woman is because he's screwing her. That this is her first thought says a lot about Carmela herself, even if Tony is openly unfaithful to her. Father Phil tries to defuse the situation but she wants to vent, not helped by Father Phil quickly absolving himself of any responsibility and dumping it back onto her as his wife to find a way to fix his soul and his unhappiness. She wails that SHE is unhappy but then cuts herself off, obviously considering it inappropriate or in some way irresponsible (Un-Christian?) to put her own needs over her husband's. All Father Phil can do is offer a wary pat of the shoulder. Tony intrudes on another marriage, sneaking up on "Fredrick's" home where the man himself and his wife are fooling around in the hot tub outside. Their daughter comes out, tired and upset after having a bad dream, and Fredrick's clearly not too happy at having to get up and join his wife in putting their kid to bed instead of having sex in the tub. They get out and head upstairs, till a barking dog scares Tony off and Fredrick comes out to see what the noise is about, hearing Tony's car and rushing out onto the street to see it pulling down the street. Obviously he was unsure about who he saw at the gas station earlier too, but now he is wondering. Carmela and Father Phil eat (and drink), having moved onto the safe conversational topic of movies. Carmela is still confused by The Last Temptation of Christ and the casting of Willem Dafoe in particular. Father Phil explains Robert DeNiro was originally going to be cast and does an awful impersonation, including a line that shocks (in a fun way) Carmela for being near-blasphemous. They continue to make awkward small-talk punctuated by uneasy silences, with Carmela getting fired up as they start talking about contradictions in Jesus' teaching. Father Phil is on safer ground here, as he pushes the message behind Jesus' teaching over the words themselves, which resonate with Carmela in the way they apply to her and her marriage: change comes through love, does that mean she is responsible for Tony becoming (or not becoming) a better person? His meal finished and quickly running out of safe conversation, Father Phil prepares to leave, but she - bored, lonely and angry at Tony - insists he stay given the weather conditions, and tempts him with the news that she just got Remains of the Day on DVD. He admits he is a sucker for Emma Thompson, and she drinks in his words greedily as he admits to being able to enjoy the beauty of a woman.   Tony wanders the streets of Waterville checking out closed local businesses that might be owned by "Fred", while the man himself goes and visits other still open local businesses to see if anybody was looking for him. Everybody obviously knows and likes him, as he spins a bullshit story about a "big guy" who hit his boat while out on the lake and tried to blame him, and he is just trying to get the insurance sorted out. He spots a mother and daughter who are obviously in the area scouting Colleges as well and quickly rushes back to his car to hide the gun he is bringing with him. He's obviously made a nice little life for himself here, and isn't comfortable with his old life intruding. He visits the restaurant next, where Meadow is drinking heavily with the College students in spite of Tony's warning, while Tony himself figures out that Fred runs the little travel agency "Peters' Travel" that specializes in tours of Italy, confirmed by a bust of Ronald Reagan with bad lips on the desk of his little office/cabin outside of town. Meanwhile Fred has figured out that whoever he spotted is probably staying at the only motel in town, and takes advantage of an unattended room service trolley to check the occupancy list. The name Soprano on the checklist confirms his worst fears, the man he saw was from the DiMeo Crime Family, that's the name of one of Jackie Aprile's friends. Back in New Jersey, a scene from Remains of the Day particularly rife with sexual tension proves too much for Carmela, who begs Father Phil to turn it off, she can't handle it. The two are now sitting firmly in the middle of the couch after occupying opposite sides earlier in the episode, and whether she recognizes what is happening between them or it is subconscious, she can't forgive herself for what she considers a sin. She bursts into tears, telling him she is a terrible person, but she needs to unburden herself. Father Phil wants to help, and she asks how. The two stare with pregnant anticipation at each other, and finally he breaks the silence by offering her relief in the only way he can: by hearing her Confession - the world is God's House after all. They sit back to back on the couch, as close as before but now separated. Carmela unburdens her grief and guilt and self-loathing, the way she has allowed evil into her house, into the home where her poor, sweet, innocent children live. She has turned herself away from the truth of what Tony is and what he does, the horrible acts he has committed, and that makes her complicit because she did it all for the convenience, the status, the money, the things. But she knows that there is a price to pay for this luxury, this overlooking of right and wrong for the sake of convenience, and that God will punish her in some way. Simultaneously with Carmela's outpouring of her fears, the former Fabian Petrulio waits with his gun at the motel for Tony to return. Tony does arrive, but with his daughter, so drunk that she can barely stand, mumbling apologies as Tony helps her back to their room. Pointedly, we see that Fred doesn't even blink at the notion of shooting Tony with his daughter right there beside him, hesitation doesn't even occur to him. No, what stops him is when he hears two other guests arguing over who has their keys as they prepare to enter their own room. He looks back and forth between these guests and Tony/Meadow, wanting no witnesses or complications. But there isn't time, they're still fumbling about as Tony - unaware he is a perfectly framed target as he stands in the doorway - closes the door and Fred loses his shot. In New Jersey, Father Phil gives an exhausted Carmela her penance, telling her exactly what she must do and how she must atone in order to achieve God's forgiveness. She promises to try, but now that she's released some of that inner tension and expelled some of the bile building up inside of her via Confession, she is already starting to make excuses: she does love Tony, after all, she does think she can make him a better person etc. Father Phil tells her that in that case she must make a real effort to change him, and that will be the good she can do to offset the bad. He offers to give her Communion, explaining that he has a travel kit with him from performing the mass for somebody in intensive care. In another of those neat juxtapositions, Tony puts his adult daughter to bed, kissing her softly like he probably did 1000 times when she was little girl, while back home in New Jersey his always faithful wife commits a different kind of infidelity as she engages in one of the most powerfully erotic scenes you are ever likely to see on television. Father Phil presents the host to her, the body and blood of Christ in the form of a wafer and wine. But the way it is shot, their positions, the extreme close ups, the lighting, the fire in the background, the narrow depth of field: this is their sex. There is nothing prurient, no lust or double-entendres. On the surface it is exactly what it says it is, her Priest giving her Communion. But this is their release, their bonding on a spiritual/emotional level in place of the physical they both clearly desire. Already a few glasses of wine in, Father Phil finishes the last of the Communion Wine and places his hand firmly on the kneeling Carmela's head to "finish it off", and the two laugh in shared relief/satisfaction to have completed this. Dropping to his knees, Father Phil hugs her and they press each other close, Carmela warmly adjusting his collar, filled with what she assumes is a pure love for this man.   Tony is back on the payphone with Christopher, telling him not to fly up and kill Fabian because he wants to deal with it himself. Christopher is upset, not only would killing Fabian give him major credit and help towards getting him Made, but as Tony's soldier this IS supposed to be a job he does. Tony explains that he thinks Fabian might have spotted him at the gas station too, and quickly has to hang up when Meadow stumbles out the door looking for him, demanding to know why he is on the payphone AGAIN. His explanation is pretty reasonable, he didn't want to wake her by talking on the phone in the room, but even in her half-drunk state she knows he's lying. The phone rings in New Jersey, waking Carmela and Father Phil who had dozed off seated side by side on the floor. It's AJ, who has spent far more than an hour at Jason's and now wants to stay the night. She agrees (note how she casts a sidelong look Phil's way, and he also takes note of what has been said) and then rejoins him at his side. Tired and a little drunk, they talk briefly about AJ as they draw closer and closer to each other, their voices trailing off, their heads tilting, mouths barely a few inches apart... and then Father Phil staggers up with a groan and staggers to the bathroom where he vomits profusely. Apparently Carmella wasn't quite as over her sickness as she thought. Left alone for a moment having come within seconds of "cheating" on her husband, Carmela picks up the phone and calls Tony at the motel. He answers but she doesn't speak, hanging up and leaving him considering: was that Fabian? She, meanwhile, sits in her giant, empty house as a storm thunders outside and considers the way her life has turned out.  The next morning, Fabian watches as Tony and Meadow leave their room, Tony enjoying teasing the hungover Meadow as they load up the car and drive away. He knows where they're going, it's clear that is Tony's daughter and they're looking at Colleges. So he doesn't bother following, meaning that he misses that Tony purely just drops her off and then leaves, telling her he left his watch at the motel. In New Jersey, an ill (and hungover) Father Phil awakens on the couch as Carmela drinks coffee and reads her paper, far too used to this type of thing happening with Tony. He is very inexperienced in this type of thing though, unsure why she seems so brusque with him and terrified that he can't remember a lot of what happened the previous night... did they... do anything out of line? Of course not, she assures him, almost sarcastically poo-pooing the idea that his car being outside in plain sight the whole night would be considered scandalous. She tells him to take a shower before he goes, but also pointedly notes that AJ will be home soon, leaving him to twist in the wind over what the perception might be should AJ find him in the house so early in the morning. Of course AJ just walks in the door and straight up the stairs to his room with a,"I'M HOME!" without noticing anything. Father Phil can't leave it alone though, desperate to clear the air between them while also absolving himself of any guilt. He explains that while of course he has desire for her, last night was a difficult test from God. She waves that off, what is he talking about, they're friends! Unused to these types of interactions with a woman, he stumbles about blindly for what to say or how to interpret what she is saying, and so she makes a joke about Casablanca. It breaks the tension somewhat, but despite their shared smiles, Father Phil's walk away still feels like a walk of shame. In Maine, Fabian explains to a clearly drugged up couple (they're pretty heavily overacting) that he wants them to kill Tony after he gets at least an hour out of town with his daughter, just drive up alongside them and blow him away. Importantly, he notes that he would have done it himself last night but a couple other people got in the way. The junkies consider for a moment then make it clear they have no interest in murder. Fabian warns them they'll never get another bag of him, it seems that even in his "civilian" life as Fred he's still dealing drugs and involved with crime. He threatens to let the cops know the one junkie was the one who burned down the Historical House, revealing the two were volunteer firefighters together, but they still aren't having it, getting the gently caress out of there as fast as possible and leaving Fabian feeling trapped. He tries another call, but as he is waiting for "Dougy" to answer, he hears the sound of a breaking twig outside. Grabbing his gun, he carefully heads outside and looks around, but there is no sign of anybody. Again he hears the sound of movement, walking with gun at the ready around the side of his office cabin until to his great relief he spots a deer and realizes that is what he heard... which is when Tony Soprano lurches out of nowhere behind him and wraps a wire around his neck.   Fabian tries desperately to escape his fate, at first pleading ignorance but then quickly begging "Teddy" to make a deal, it has been so long that he didn't even remember Tony's name. Tony seethes with hate as he pulls the wire tight, bemused and disgusted when Fabian tells him he could have killed him last night but chose not to because he was with his daughter. Tony doesn't believe it, though not because he knows Fabian only didn't do it because another couple showed up at an inopportune time. Tony correctly points out that if Fabian had killed him at the motel it would have ended the cushy life he'd made for himself here in Maine. In a previous episode we saw three of the signs of grief, in this we see a fourth as Fabian desperately bargains, begging Tony not to kill him. Tony uses Jimmy's name, somebody that Fabian probably doesn't really remember either, pulling the wire even tighter and dropping Fabian to the ground, strangling the life out of him as he lets out a guttural, almost sexual roar as he wraps up long outstanding business. With Fabian dead, he checks his pulse and tends to his own cut fingers where the wire was pulled tight. In what I'd almost call a post-coital daze he staggers away from the body, and the sound of ducks catches his ear. Looking up, he sees the birds he associates with family and happiness once more... but just like the ones in his pool, these ones are flying away from him.  He returns to Colby to pick up Meadow, spinning her a series of bullshit stories about how he recovered his watch, explanations for the dirt on his shoes and the cut on his hand. Every single story, smoothly offered, is clearly a lie and she knows it. She demands to know if he went to see the man he claimed not to know, did they get into a fight? Why was he on the payphone at 1am in the morning? He retreats into the old father/daughter dynamic, admonishing her for drinking, reminding her he told her not to do it. Her own retort is a quiet, almost pleading desire to return to the open back-and-forth they established the previous day - is he lying to her? They have an honest relationship right so he can tell her truth? He puts the onus on her, essentially laying out to her that if she won't accept his story then SHE is the one putting that honest relationship at risk. Which makes it all the sadder that the next thing both say to the other is,"I love you." At Bowdoin, they sit in yet another awkward silence together until Meadow is called in for her interview, leaving Tony alone to stare at a quote from Nathaniel Hawthorne sitting above the opposite door, one that speaks directly to his events in this episode, to his decision to lie to his daughter, to the murder of Fabian while that same daughter was sitting a College interview, to the chaotic mixture of his double life. From the look on his face I'd say he understands the significance, but also that even this early in the series he feels resigned that this is his fate. Nathaniel Hawthorne posted:No man can wear one face to himself and another to the multitude, without finally getting bewildered as to which one may be true. When I first saw this episode I felt that this would be the perfect place to have ended the episode. So you should all be very glad I don't write The Sopranos, as the scene that follows is a master class in manipulation and self-destruction. Tony and Meadow return home where Meadow boils down the entire trip to "It was good" before heading upstairs to call Hunter on the phone. Tony goes straight to the fridge for the baked zitti, disgusted to discover it's all gone and correctly blaming Father Phil for eating it. Carmela agrees this is true, and then like a Master Strategist/General she begins her attack. Father Phil stayed the night, you know? Tony laughs it off until he realizes she is serious, and gets even more upset when he learns AJ wasn't there so it was just his wife and another man in the house all alone. Why is she telling him this? Well maybe he might hear about it someway and get the wrong idea, wouldn't that be terrible? Tony again tries to laugh it off but can't let it go, asking for more details, so she explains he gave her Communion. He turns that into an off-color joke, pointing out that a guy spends the night with her and all he slips her is a wafer? She asks him why she would tell him about it if something happened, clearly laying the groundwork that the only reason to NOT tell him about having a man around would be if something DID happen. Tony blunders right into that, guessing that Father Phil must be a "fag" because if he isn't, then he is perfectly within his rights to get mad about their spouse spending time with a member of the opposite sex. With that, the trap is set and sprung.   Tony is completely caught, he races after her as she walks away, trying to explain that he didn't tell her because he thought she would misunderstand if his therapist was a woman. But how can he justify this now, having just established what the correct reaction would be in the opposite situation. Carmela has essentially torn into him and ripped him a new one without having to raise her voice or get angry or do anything other than let him hang himself with the rope he gladly accepted from her as she kept handing it over. Yes it is passive-aggressive manipulation, but Tony does deserve it, and now he has to deal with the consequences of his actions. The same guy who just strangled an ex-mobster to death while ranting about broken oaths is now left a hapless dope in the wake of his wife's smooth manipulation - an upbeat, almost sitcom ending to one of the best episodes of Sopranos ever made. Season 1: The Pilot | 46 Long | Denial, Anger, Acceptance | Meadowlands | College | Pax Soprana | Down Neck | The Legend of Tennessee Moltisanti | Boca | A Hit Is a Hit | Nobody Knows Anything | Isabella | I Dream of Jeannie Cusamano Season 1 | Season 2 | Season 3 | Season 4 | Season 5 | Season 6.1 | Season 6.2 Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 13:19 on Apr 23, 2020 |
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2019 08:05
|
|
|
There's assuredly a list of 'if you ever watch only one episode of a series' out there where you get everything you need to know about the series and its main characters from just that one episode, and 'College' is definitely on that list. I'm not quite sure the series ever did as good a self-contained episode ever again.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2019 12:39
|
|
|
What’d you two do all night, play “Name that Pope”?
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2019 12:58
|
|
|
College is good, but all the stuff with Fabian selling drugs and trying to go after Tony is clearly something the show would not have done even in season 2. David Chase says here that he put that in so the studio would get off his back: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qF02dHTKLCA Pedro De Heredia fucked around with this message at 14:43 on Mar 22, 2019 |
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2019 14:39
|
|
|
Also, if you've never watched this insanely long interview with David Chase, you should: https://interviews.televisionacademy.com/interviews/david-chase
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2019 14:45
|
|
|
Pedro De Heredia posted:College is good, but all the stuff with Fabian selling drugs and trying to go after Tony is clearly something the show would not have done even in season 2. It really does show how Sopranos had no illusions about the type of characters it was portraying, to again compare and contrast to SoA. The line that stands out for me was the 'for us wiseguys, the hustle never ends' which I feel ties in greatly with the series' final scene.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2019 15:11
|
|
|
Dawgstar posted:in Sons of Anarchy and there it seems almost schizophrenic, jumping back and forth between 'these guys are just scum on Harleys' and 'no, wait, they are noble outlaws.' It's really more that the dialogue is always reinforcing the idea that they are 'good' (especially Jax) even though every single thing they are shown doing is terrible.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2019 15:30
|
|
|
Dawgstar posted:It really does show how Sopranos had no illusions about the type of characters it was portraying, to again compare and contrast to SoA. The greatest example of their hypocrisy I can think of is when they are at the lake house with Bobby and Janice. Bobby is talking about how his Dad couldn't immigrate through Ellis Island because he " got into some trouble in the old country" so he snuck in through the Canadian border. He then proceeded to because a literal hitman for the mob, killing god knows how many people. "We oughtta build a wall now though" Bobby says, since illegal criminal immigrants are only ok if they are Italian. As much as they never really got a real handle on the kids the Sopranos totally nailed how loving lovely, greedy, spoiled and hosed up Baby Boomers are.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2019 18:16
|
|
|
 If it had hit 3 years later, Cleaver would've been a huge hit for Blumhouse. $10m opening weekend, easily.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2019 20:46
|
|
|
Kinda shocked he spelled beautiful right.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2019 20:57
|
|
|
I always remember Melfi reading out Tony's apology letter to her psychiatrist, Elliott. I am reminded of it to this day every time I read something written by a dumb person trying to come across proper. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2019 22:25
|
|
|
Pedro De Heredia posted:College is good, but all the stuff with Fabian selling drugs and trying to go after Tony is clearly something the show would not have done even in season 2. Thanks, this is really neat and I had no idea, though I guess it explains why that scene feels so odd, which I'd put down to the not particularly great acting/writing of the junkies. I don't know how many of you remember it as the first season was airing (maybe some of you weren't even alive!) but there was a real moral "panic" at the time about the show, with people claiming it was glorifying violence and misogyny and in particular that it was stereotyping Italians (oh boy does the show get mad about that particular one). I remember the triumphant heralding of the launch of some piece of poo poo NBC (I think) drama at the time that claimed it was like The Sopranos but "done right" where the gang was some multi-ethnic bullshit and the lead character was an undercover cop tortured by his dual lives (you knew because he wore a leather jacket and would drink a lot). They had a Crime Boss who was supposed to be some mastermind criminal genius keeping a low profile (there's an episode where he does Jury Duty which is hilarious in trying to demonstrate what a master manipulator he is) and it was loving awful.... but it kept within Network guidelines of being a "safe" way to portray organized crime. The Sopranos, while it made plenty of missteps, wasn't afraid to get a bit more complicated, and I don't think the show can be blamed for the people who only watched it on the surface level and thought people like Paulie, Christopher and even Tony were supposed to be role models or cool guys to aspire to be. Flipping things back to Scorcese, he suffered the same issue with Wolf of Wall Street (and probably Casino and Goodfellas before it), where the gaudy excess of a shallow piece of exploitative poo poo is pointed out over and over again throughout the film as being a horrible and ultimately empty thing, but there were plenty of people who just looked at all the sex and money and went,"That's so cool, I wish I could be like that guy!" Tangentially, I always find it interesting how the characters in the show reference their understanding of the mob via media representations. Meadow and her friends think it is kinda cool Tony is in the mafia, because they dug the aesthetic of Casino. Christopher was like Henry Hill in Goodfellas (which Michael Imperioli was in!), as long as he can remember he always wanted to be a gangster, and when he thought a war was brewing he thought of it in terms of Scarface. AJ likens Uncle Jackie's funeral to The Godfather, a movie that Tony and his Crew frequently reference. Even Tony himself spends an evening watching The Public Enemy when trying to reconcile the film relationship between a mother and her gangster son with his own relationship with Livia. I think part of that is shorthand for viewers for whom their connection with the mob (hopefully) is via film, but it says a lot about the characters too in that they mythologize the past and apply it to the present through the lens of dramatized and meticulously constructed fantasies. Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Mar 22, 2019 |
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2019 23:23
|
|
|
I love the talk Tony has with AJ after AJ's failed attempt to kill Junior, when AJ brings up how Tony and all his friends cheer and poo poo when they watch gangster movies, and Tony broken heartedly tells him it's just a movie.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2019 00:25
|
|
|
Kevyn posted:What? I was mimicking Albert Barese’s habit of repeating the thing that someone just said. my apologies. that fuckin parakeet
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2019 00:29
|
|
|
ruddiger posted:I love the talk Tony has with AJ after AJ's failed attempt to kill Junior, when AJ brings up how Tony and all his friends cheer and poo poo when they watch gangster movies, and Tony broken heartedly tells him it's just a movie. Robert Iler wasn't what I'd call a great actor or anything, but I really enjoyed the latter seasons writing of him and he certainly tried his hardest to do justice to it. The episode where Tony comes home and finds him in the pool is absolutely gutwrenching.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2019 00:51
|
|
|
Jerusalem posted:Tangentially, I always find it interesting how the characters in the show reference their understanding of the mob via media representations. Meadow and her friends think it is kinda cool Tony is in the mafia, because they dug the aesthetic of Casino. Christopher was like Henry Hill in Goodfellas (which Michael Imperioli was in!), as long as he can remember he always wanted to be a gangster, and when he thought a war was brewing he thought of it in terms of Scarface. AJ likens Uncle Jackie's funeral to The Godfather, a movie that Tony and his Crew frequently reference. Even Tony himself spends an evening watching The Public Enemy when trying to reconcile the film relationship between a mother and her gangster son with his own relationship with Livia. I think part of that is shorthand for viewers for whom their connection with the mob (hopefully) is via film, but it says a lot about the characters too in that they mythologize the past and apply it to the present through the lens of dramatized and meticulously constructed fantasies. The last bit even happens in today's mob, where you'd get things like Gotti being a big fan of The Godfather and clearly thinking he's Michael Corleone.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2019 00:59
|
|
|
Pedro De Heredia posted:College is good, but all the stuff with Fabian selling drugs and trying to go after Tony is clearly something the show would not have done even in season 2. I just realized that whenever someone talked about david chase I'd been thinking about david cross
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2019 01:14
|
|
|
Mr. Showpranos would be a hell of a program.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2019 02:12
|
|
|
I am re-watching thanks to y'all. It feels strange to watch the same thing more than 10 years later and perceive it so very differently. Two episodes in and I am really surprised by how much was packed into them. Also I had forgotten (or maybe didn't fully appreciate) just how massive an idiot child Christopher is and how much work Tony has to do to suppress the urge to throttle him. Something that really stood out for me was how in episode 2 it seemed like he sat out the botched hijack of one of Junior's trucks not because he had taken the time to consider the potential consequences of his actions, but just out of a shallow reconsideration of his all-important self image and readjustment of his ego - possibly by laying off the coke for a bit as he is in his underwear, holding a beer and has apparently been up all night when Brendan turns up. He is a great portrayal of a person who somehow manages to exist with their head completely up their rear end.
crispix fucked around with this message at 13:23 on Mar 23, 2019 |
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2019 13:19
|
|
|
Jerusalem posted:Robert Iler wasn't what I'd call a great actor or anything, but I really enjoyed the latter seasons writing of him and he certainly tried his hardest to do justice to it. The episode where Tony comes home and finds him in the pool is absolutely gutwrenching. This scene is ruined for me because watching Tony eat those Lincoln logs right before is so horrifying.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2019 13:25
|
|
|
Big Dick Cheney posted:This scene is ruined for me because watching Tony eat those Lincoln logs right before is so horrifying. Lol this is so true (and so gross).
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2019 15:31
|
|
|
I had never heard of those before and still think the show invented them.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2019 21:40
|
|
|
I would kill myself too if my mom made those monstrosities.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2019 22:24
|
|
|
My grandma would make those except instead of hot dogs they were fried bologna laid on top of cream cheese and rolled up like a swiss roll in white bread. To this day I hate bologna and cream cheese.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2019 22:26
|
|
|
That seems a horrible thing to do to a perfectly innocent hot dog.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2019 23:59
|
|
|
What did Abe Lincoln ever do to have such a disgusting thing named after him.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2019 05:45
|
|
|
ruddiger posted:What did Abe Lincoln ever do to have such a disgusting thing named after him. A big firm log.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2019 07:29
|
|
|
"The whole tray from last Sunday? Monsignor Jughead was here." 
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2019 11:03
|
|
|
My favourite moment in Anger, Denial, Acceptance is when Artie loses his temper and throws that bit of meat at Tony and for a good 2-3 seconds he is just frozen there with it hanging on his face. Artie realises that he has just thrown food into the face of Tony Soprano. Nothing is said but Artie's relief when Tony throws that first bit of food back at him is so palpable.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2019 18:51
|
|
|
crispix posted:My favourite moment in Anger, Denial, Acceptance is when Artie loses his temper and throws that bit of meat at Tony and for a good 2-3 seconds he is just frozen there with it hanging on his face. Artie realises that he has just thrown food into the face of Tony Soprano. Nothing is said but Artie's relief when Tony throws that first bit of food back at him is so palpable. You have to wonder what Tony was thinking. If this had been at the pork store or the Bing, he probably couldn't have let that slide but since he was surrounded by people he didn't especially care about if he looked 'weak' in front of, sure, yeah, food fight.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2019 19:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 14:17 |
|
|
Artie is basically Tony's only real friend in the world and I think he holds onto that for the same selfish reasons he holds on to Carmela. He lets Artie get away with tons of poo poo even in public. Even against other made guys.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2019 19:49
|
|