House-buying thread - Why is everyone involved in this process so deeply stupid?

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > House-buying thread - Why is everyone involved in this process so deeply stupid?

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paternity suitor: Aug 2, 2016

baquerd posted:

I hope they end up financially crippling those fuckers. It's like we're in 40 years in the past and mutual funds have 5% loads and/or $200 per-trade commissions, but with houses. The same sort of arguments were made then, that the average person can't possibly comprehend the financial markets and needs a broker's expertise to make sure the trades are suitable.

Redfin is a step in the right direction, but the anti-trust activities of the real estate cartel cripple what a discount broker can truly offer. I can't wait for real a la carte realtor pricing, it's so long overdue.

It seems very likely to me that the real estate cartel is toppled within the next 10 years. It just doesn't make sense, and there's too much money to be made.

I absolutely do not ever plan to sell my house in a scenario where I'm paying someone 6%. The service they provide is completely outdated. My buying agent did almost literally nothing for me. I found my house online, looked at it during an open house, came up and with the counter offer. At best, he confirmed my opinions of the house when I walked through IRL for the first time. The selling agent was a complete joke. He took horrible pictures, which is part of the reason I was able to offer $20k under asking.

# ? Mar 22, 2019 17:12

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# ? May 29, 2024 15:04

H110Hawk: Dec 28, 2006

ihatepants posted:

Thank you for your advice.

I actually have an update on our situation. This past Wednesday evening, we were actually able to escalate our case all the way to the VP/Area Lending Manager, who personally made sure that we were taken care of. He had the underwriters immediately go over our case and reduce all their remaining conditions for approval to the bare minimum (3 things, all very understandable). He also had their sales manager contact the sellers� agent personally and they were able to negotiate an extension to next week, with the terms being that we will pay the sellers $1000 for the delay. He also authorized a credit to us of 1% of our loan amount for the inconvenience we received. We submitted all the remaining conditions by yesterday evening, so hopefully we�ll get the final approval today so that we can close on Monday.

I�d like to thank you again, because I think this threat really spooked them. After I sent everyone involved (and CC�ed the VP/lending manager) a long email explaining everything that happened to us, with a timeline of events and this threat at the end, the ball began rolling right away and the first person to respond was the VP with a concrete plan to move forward.

I�m sure it also helped that my mother-in-law called in a favor with a former partner at her law firm, who is now apparently current legal counsel for BofA, and he also personally contacted said VP to make sure that we�re taken care of. In his correspondence with us, he also made a joke at my MIL�s expense, implying that it�s karma for all the times she requested adding additional closing conditions, resolutions, certifications and signatures at the last minute during her career.

This seems like better than what I assumed would be the best possible outcome. It's a small world if you're connected around town. Hope it all goes well on closing, and if so, my condolences on owning a house.

# ? Mar 22, 2019 17:27

Andy Dufresne: Aug 4, 2010; The only good race pace is suicide pace, and today looks like a good day to die

ihatepants posted:

Thank you for your advice.

I actually have an update on our situation. This past Wednesday evening, we were actually able to escalate our case all the way to the VP/Area Lending Manager, who personally made sure that we were taken care of. He had the underwriters immediately go over our case and reduce all their remaining conditions for approval to the bare minimum (3 things, all very understandable). He also had their sales manager contact the sellers� agent personally and they were able to negotiate an extension to next week, with the terms being that we will pay the sellers $1000 for the delay. He also authorized a credit to us of 1% of our loan amount for the inconvenience we received. We submitted all the remaining conditions by yesterday evening, so hopefully we�ll get the final approval today so that we can close on Monday.

I�d like to thank you again, because I think this threat really spooked them. After I sent everyone involved (and CC�ed the VP/lending manager) a long email explaining everything that happened to us, with a timeline of events and this threat at the end, the ball began rolling right away and the first person to respond was the VP with a concrete plan to move forward.

I�m sure it also helped that my mother-in-law called in a favor with a former partner at her law firm, who is now apparently current legal counsel for BofA, and he also personally contacted said VP to make sure that we�re taken care of. In his correspondence with us, he also made a joke at my MIL�s expense, implying that it�s karma for all the times she requested adding additional closing conditions, resolutions, certifications and signatures at the last minute during her career.

Yeah, this really is a great deal for you all in all. Congrats and good luck.

# ? Mar 22, 2019 17:40

ihatepants: Nov 5, 2011; Let the burning of pants commence. These things drive me nuts.

H110Hawk posted:

This seems like better than what I assumed would be the best possible outcome. It's a small world if you're connected around town. Hope it all goes well on closing, and if so, my condolences on owning a house.

Thanks! I mean I think you were also totally right that they probably realized how dumb they were being about the conditions they were adding on the day after our scheduled closing. The ones they left were the ones we expected them to really leave:

Updating a gift letter to have the proper donor - My dad signed it alone but my mom used her personal account to send.
Getting a letter from my wife�s manager at work to be on company letterhead to be considered �official� - She had to get a letter explaining why her hours the past month are less than what�s on verification of employment (she came back part time from maternity leave while she was eligible for FMLA and started full time again last week).
and explaining a deposit into an account that�s the exact same value as the gift we received from that account - In this case it�s because the donor transferred money from her personal savings into her and her husband�s joint checking, but wasn�t able to transfer it directly because of limits with Zelle and she was unable to visit a bank that day to send it. So she asked her husband to do it and he used his personal checking account to send to us, and she was just reimbursing him from the money already transferred into their joint checking.

# ? Mar 22, 2019 17:47

rujasu: Dec 19, 2013

paternity suitor posted:

It seems very likely to me that the real estate cartel is toppled within the next 10 years. It just doesn't make sense, and there's too much money to be made.

I absolutely do not ever plan to sell my house in a scenario where I'm paying someone 6%. The service they provide is completely outdated. My buying agent did almost literally nothing for me. I found my house online, looked at it during an open house, came up and with the counter offer. At best, he confirmed my opinions of the house when I walked through IRL for the first time. The selling agent was a complete joke. He took horrible pictures, which is part of the reason I was able to offer $20k under asking.

Are you basing your entire impression of agents on that one experience you had? I'm not even saying you're wrong, but my buyer's agents were at least adequate, and there was no way my wife and I would have gotten through the process without their help. They gave us advice, got us into a bunch of houses, set up inspections, negotiated some concessions out of the seller, plenty of other stuff I'm forgetting about, and all of that seems to be pretty standard. Buying a house was daunting enough, they covered a lot of stuff I wouldn't want to try to tackle myself. And the bit about the seller's agent taking bad pictures, the fact that the one agent you dealt with is bad at his job doesn't say much about the profession as a whole, most listings have decent enough pictures. I'm not saying agents are great or aren't ripping you off, but they do provide a service that most sellers & buyers need (or at least want).

# ? Mar 22, 2019 18:32

QuarkJets: Sep 8, 2008

Most real estate agents on a good day are still worse than useless

Others are literally trying to grift you

# ? Mar 22, 2019 19:07

therobit: Aug 19, 2008; I've been tryin' to speak with you for a long time

ihatepants posted:

Thank you for your advice.

I actually have an update on our situation. This past Wednesday evening, we were actually able to escalate our case all the way to the VP/Area Lending Manager, who personally made sure that we were taken care of. He had the underwriters immediately go over our case and reduce all their remaining conditions for approval to the bare minimum (3 things, all very understandable). He also had their sales manager contact the sellers’ agent personally and they were able to negotiate an extension to next week, with the terms being that we will pay the sellers $1000 for the delay. He also authorized a credit to us of 1% of our loan amount for the inconvenience we received. We submitted all the remaining conditions by yesterday evening, so hopefully we’ll get the final approval today so that we can close on Monday.

I’d like to thank you again, because I think this threat really spooked them. After I sent everyone involved (and CC’ed the VP/lending manager) a long email explaining everything that happened to us, with a timeline of events and this threat at the end, the ball began rolling right away and the first person to respond was the VP with a concrete plan to move forward.

I’m sure it also helped that my mother-in-law called in a favor with a former partner at her law firm, who is now apparently current legal counsel for BofA, and he also personally contacted said VP to make sure that we’re taken care of. In his correspondence with us, he also made a joke at my MIL’s expense, implying that it’s karma for all the times she requested adding additional closing conditions, resolutions, certifications and signatures at the last minute during her career.

I'm glad to hear you are finally getting some traction. A lot of those sound like items the loan officer should have caught before sending docs to the underwriter. In other words, things that should have have been asked of you the first week of the loan process, but they waited until the end because they are lazy.

# ? Mar 22, 2019 19:16

paternity suitor: Aug 2, 2016

rujasu posted:

Are you basing your entire impression of agents on that one experience you had? I'm not even saying you're wrong, but my buyer's agents were at least adequate, and there was no way my wife and I would have gotten through the process without their help. They gave us advice, got us into a bunch of houses, set up inspections, negotiated some concessions out of the seller, plenty of other stuff I'm forgetting about, and all of that seems to be pretty standard. Buying a house was daunting enough, they covered a lot of stuff I wouldn't want to try to tackle myself. And the bit about the seller's agent taking bad pictures, the fact that the one agent you dealt with is bad at his job doesn't say much about the profession as a whole, most listings have decent enough pictures. I'm not saying agents are great or aren't ripping you off, but they do provide a service that most sellers & buyers need (or at least want).

That stuff's all useful, but is it worth tens of thousands of dollars?

# ? Mar 22, 2019 19:35

rujasu: Dec 19, 2013

paternity suitor posted:

That stuff's all useful, but is it worth tens of thousands of dollars?

For buying/selling houses worth six and seven figures? Yes. It's not for everyone, some people don't use agents, but for the average Joe who just needs to buy a house or get rid of a house? Yes.

# ? Mar 22, 2019 19:50

B-Nasty: May 25, 2005

rujasu posted:

I'm not saying agents are great or aren't ripping you off, but they do provide a service that most sellers & buyers need (or at least want).

That's fine, but the buyer's agent should be compensated directly by the buyer (perhaps flat fee or independent percentage-based on purchase) not paid by some convoluted commission sharing structure. This would actually benefit the buyer more, because just like a real estate lawyer, they exclusively represent the buyer, and the sellers' agents don't have any way to manipulate their choices by commission games.

Likewise, the seller could choose from any number of agent-types and commission structures, where all the agents would be competing on price vs. services offered. The seller could even choose to do a FSBO without being penalized by having to pay the buyer's agent commission.

# ? Mar 22, 2019 19:51

Motronic: Nov 6, 2009

B-Nasty posted:

That's fine, but the buyer's agent should be compensated directly by the buyer (perhaps flat fee or independent percentage-based on purchase) not paid by some convoluted commission sharing structure. This would actually benefit the buyer more, because just like a real estate lawyer, they exclusively represent the buyer, and the sellers' agents don't have any way to manipulate their choices by commission games.

Likewise, the seller could choose from any number of agent-types and commission structures, where all the agents would be competing on price vs. services offered. The seller could even choose to do a FSBO without being penalized by having to pay the buyer's agent commission.

I think this is the major thing prevents real change in the industry. No single side of the transaction has any way to change anything significantly right now, and it's devilishly brilliant that their cartel has set things up this way.

# ? Mar 22, 2019 19:55

rujasu: Dec 19, 2013

B-Nasty posted:

That's fine, but the buyer's agent should be compensated directly by the buyer (perhaps flat fee or independent percentage-based on purchase) not paid by some convoluted commission sharing structure. This would actually benefit the buyer more, because just like a real estate lawyer, they exclusively represent the buyer, and the sellers' agents don't have any way to manipulate their choices by commission games.

Likewise, the seller could choose from any number of agent-types and commission structures, where all the agents would be competing on price vs. services offered. The seller could even choose to do a FSBO without being penalized by having to pay the buyer's agent commission.

Sure, I'm on board with all of that.

# ? Mar 22, 2019 19:59

baquerd: Jul 2, 2007; by FactsAreUseless

rujasu posted:

Are you basing your entire impression of agents on that one experience you had? I'm not even saying you're wrong, but my buyer's agents were at least adequate, and there was no way my wife and I would have gotten through the process without their help. They [...] set up inspections, negotiated some concessions out of the seller, plenty of other stuff I'm forgetting about, and all of that seems to be pretty standard. Buying a house was daunting enough, they covered a lot of stuff I wouldn't want to try to tackle myself. And the bit about the seller's agent taking bad pictures, the fact that the one agent you dealt with is bad at his job doesn't say much about the profession as a whole, most listings have decent enough pictures. I'm not saying agents are great or aren't ripping you off, but they do provide a service that most sellers & buyers need (or at least want).

Bolded is kind of a red flag depending on what you mean. Regardless, maybe some people (perhaps even most) want all these services, but those that don't want them don't get any choice, they have to pay the cartel. That's why it's a cartel.

# ? Mar 22, 2019 21:18

Koivunen: Oct 7, 2011; there's definitely no logic
to human behaviour

Listed our old house on Wednesday, we�re up to ten showings, four of which are scheduled for today. We got an offer last night (Friday), we listed for $110k and the offer is for $113.5 with us contributing 3% towards closing. It�s a conventional loan where their contribution is 5% and 95% would be mortgage, which means they�d be living there, which we like. We were hoping it wouldn�t be turned into a rental property. We are going to wait until the end of the day and see if any other offers come in, but if not we will accept.

My husband wishes we would have listed for more, but I (and our realtor) think the price is fair. Houses in that neighborhood are anywhere from $70k-$130k, and while we put a ton of work into it, the condition of the house is good, but not immaculate or high-end. Maybe we could have gotten away with $120k, but too late now. I was afraid it would never sell and was ready to list for $90k just to be done with it.

Excited and nervous. Hopefully everything goes smoothly and it all works out. Our baby is due exactly one month from now, so getting this financial and emotional burden off our hands would be wonderful.

# ? Mar 23, 2019 15:27

Jealous Cow: Apr 4, 2002; by Fluffdaddy

Koivunen posted:

Listed our old house on Wednesday, we�re up to ten showings, four of which are scheduled for today. We got an offer last night (Friday), we listed for $110k and the offer is for $113.5 with us contributing 3% towards closing. It�s a conventional loan where their contribution is 5% and 95% would be mortgage, which means they�d be living there, which we like. We were hoping it wouldn�t be turned into a rental property. We are going to wait until the end of the day and see if any other offers come in, but if not we will accept.

My husband wishes we would have listed for more, but I (and our realtor) think the price is fair. Houses in that neighborhood are anywhere from $70k-$130k, and while we put a ton of work into it, the condition of the house is good, but not immaculate or high-end. Maybe we could have gotten away with $120k, but too late now. I was afraid it would never sell and was ready to list for $90k just to be done with it.

Excited and nervous. Hopefully everything goes smoothly and it all works out. Our baby is due exactly one month from now, so getting this financial and emotional burden off our hands would be wonderful.

Awesome! Good luck with the sale and your new baby!

# ? Mar 23, 2019 16:19

B-Nasty: May 25, 2005

Koivunen posted:

It�s a conventional loan where their contribution is 5% and 95% would be mortgage, which means they�d be living there, which we like. We were hoping it wouldn�t be turned into a rental property. We are going to wait until the end of the day and see if any other offers come in, but if not we will accept.

Why should you care? At this point, it's best to think of it as no longer your house. If someone wants to demolish it and piss on the rubble, assuming they paid what you wanted, you should wave at the bulldozer driver on your way to the bank.

Thinking of it in business terms also allows you to price it at a level that works for you considering everything else that's going on. I was in a similar situation, where I probably could've gotten 10-15K more for my house that I sold last year, but one of my prime motivations was closing quickly (new house already purchased, pregnant wife.) To me, that $15K wasn't worth the stress and worry of having the property sit on the market for months when I was ready to just move on.

Good luck with closing; you can't really relax until you hand over the keys, so hopefully they want a quick close.

# ? Mar 23, 2019 16:46

skipdogg: Nov 29, 2004; Resident SRT-4 Expert

I sold my house last year, and probably left 5k on the table by taking the first offer. The guy came in with an all cash offer though and we jumped on it. I sold the house in 1 day for 184k and no repairs or concessions . I could have asked for 189 and showed it for a month or so and probably sold it, but 184 was a totally fair price considering the entire deal. No dealing with buyers financing falling out, repair requests, closing assistance etc.

It was worth it.

# ? Mar 23, 2019 18:45

QuarkJets: Sep 8, 2008

I got a cold call from some local realtor asking me if I want to sell my house cause the market is "red hot".

This is a sign that the local market is slowing down, right? Cause in an actually-hot market realtors wouldn't need to go searching for business?

# ? Mar 23, 2019 19:32

skipdogg: Nov 29, 2004; Resident SRT-4 Expert

Not necessarily. They probably have clients looking for homes in your area at your price range. I got realtors stopping by my house asking if I was interested in selling the 3 months before I decided to sell. The market for my house was really hot with houses in my �hood going under contract in less than 3 days usually

# ? Mar 23, 2019 19:39

Tunicate: May 15, 2012

Its a sign that the market is about to implode in a crisis.

# ? Mar 23, 2019 19:39

Subjunctive: Sep 12, 2006; ✨sparkle and shine✨

QuarkJets posted:

I got a cold call from some local realtor asking me if I want to sell my house cause the market is "red hot".

This is a sign that the local market is slowing down, right? Cause in an actually-hot market realtors wouldn't need to go searching for business?

When the market is hot it usually means demand is outstripping supply, and they can move inventory quickly, so they want more of it. For me that only happened in really tight sellers� markets.

Tunicate posted:

Its a sign that the market is about to implode in a crisis.

For some extremely vague definition of �about to�.

I was getting those calls twice a month almost 3 years ago, and while they�re rare now, as far as I can tell my house is worth about $200K more than then.

Subjunctive fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Mar 23, 2019

# ? Mar 23, 2019 19:40

Hauki: May 11, 2010

Tunicate posted:

Its a sign that the market is about to implode in a crisis.

lol I�ve been getting those calls/letters/etc. for years over the course of two different houses

# ? Mar 23, 2019 20:20

Koivunen: Oct 7, 2011; there's definitely no logic
to human behaviour

B-Nasty posted:

Why should you care? At this point, it's best to think of it as no longer your house. If someone wants to demolish it and piss on the rubble, assuming they paid what you wanted, you should wave at the bulldozer driver on your way to the bank.

Thinking of it in business terms also allows you to price it at a level that works for you considering everything else that's going on. I was in a similar situation, where I probably could've gotten 10-15K more for my house that I sold last year, but one of my prime motivations was closing quickly (new house already purchased, pregnant wife.) To me, that $15K wasn't worth the stress and worry of having the property sit on the market for months when I was ready to just move on.

Good luck with closing; you can't really relax until you hand over the keys, so hopefully they want a quick close.

Yeah I�m definitely over the house, but the neighborhood is already full of lovely rentals that get neglected and attract not great tenants. We put so much work into that house, it would just be nice if the people living in it were also the owners, since hopefully that motivates them to actually take care of it. I mean, they could rip down all the walls and spray paint all the wood work and cook meth in the basement, but it just feels better with it going to people who won�t immediately rent it out. Also, the neighbors on either side are really good people, and they�ve seen the neighborhood go to hell and get turned into rental central, it would be nice to spare them from yet another rental property moving in. But yeah, I think the price was good enough to sell fast, we listed about $10/sq foot less than other houses in the neighborhood, and getting it off our hands ASAP is far more important to me than a few thou, especially when we aren�t saving money by paying two mortgages and sets of bills, and are about to be income-less with a brand new kid.

Anyway there was one �maybe� who backed out when they heard we had an offer, so we accepted the offer last night! I�m also hoping it�s a really fast closing and that the inspection goes well. Definitely nervous about the inspection since it is an old house and it has some quirks, but I�m probably worrying for nothing.

# ? Mar 24, 2019 14:20

joepinetree: Apr 5, 2012

So now I am doing the pre-qual stuff tor buying a condo, and I wanted to bounce stuff off of this thread. My wife and I have about 100k saved up (liquid), and are looking for a condo in the 250 to 320k range. Looking at the average taxes and HOA fees around here, the 320 range would get us to a monthly cost that is about 200 more than our current rent+utilities (we spend 2k a month on rent+waste+water, and looking at online calculators at a 320k condo we looked around here, it would cost us 2.2k a month for mortgage+tax+HOA though the HOA includes more stuff like gas and cable).

Reading this thread, people seem to be very down on condos. But we love apartment living (being close to downtown, etc), we travel a lot, and we hate gardens and gardening (and have no kids and plan on not having kids). As for why not stick with renting, we love our current place. But we're on the 3rd management company in 8 years, and they've ranged from meh to horrible. The current management company is running it as barebones as possible, renting it out to a bunch of college students, and really trying to push the party angle. What was once a "luxury" place now will have alcohol spilled in the hallways for most of the weekend. Not only that, but I am in a state with very little renter protections, so we've had friends move out because their rent would have gone up 10-20% in one year. So we want a place where we're not constantly wondering if this is the year we will have to move, or where we don't see the complex go from young professionals in a well managed community that is clean to one where it's all rich frat boys partying up.

Is there something that I am missing that I should consider?

# ? Mar 24, 2019 20:25

QuarkJets: Sep 8, 2008

joepinetree posted:

So now I am doing the pre-qual stuff tor buying a condo, and I wanted to bounce stuff off of this thread. My wife and I have about 100k saved up (liquid), and are looking for a condo in the 250 to 320k range. Looking at the average taxes and HOA fees around here, the 320 range would get us to a monthly cost that is about 200 more than our current rent+utilities (we spend 2k a month on rent+waste+water, and looking at online calculators at a 320k condo we looked around here, it would cost us 2.2k a month for mortgage+tax+HOA though the HOA includes more stuff like gas and cable).

Reading this thread, people seem to be very down on condos. But we love apartment living (being close to downtown, etc), we travel a lot, and we hate gardens and gardening (and have no kids and plan on not having kids). As for why not stick with renting, we love our current place. But we're on the 3rd management company in 8 years, and they've ranged from meh to horrible. The current management company is running it as barebones as possible, renting it out to a bunch of college students, and really trying to push the party angle. What was once a "luxury" place now will have alcohol spilled in the hallways for most of the weekend. Not only that, but I am in a state with very little renter protections, so we've had friends move out because their rent would have gone up 10-20% in one year. So we want a place where we're not constantly wondering if this is the year we will have to move, or where we don't see the complex go from young professionals in a well managed community that is clean to one where it's all rich frat boys partying up.

Is there something that I am missing that I should consider?

That reasoning all sounds fine. How does your budget look? You've accounted for the $200 difference in rent vs mortgage, but you should also budget for maintenance. Have you looked at the documentation for the condo association? Do they seem to be well-managed?

Anyway the thread is usually down on condos because they combine the downsides of apartment living (can't choose your neighbors, shared walls, etc) with the downsides of home ownership (huge costs to sell and move away, you're responsible for repairs, etc). Sometimes people look at condo ownership as the lower-cost alternative to boomers saying that you'll become rich if you buy a home (lol), or they'll only do the very simple math of "well mortgage - rent is a pretty small number that I can just barely afford, guess it makes sense for me to buy" without really thinking through the decision. Beyond that you basically just have normal home purchaser concerns; are the neighbors lovely, is the COA lovely, does the inspection reveal that the outlets aren't hooked up to anything or that the drain pipes are all filled with concrete, etc. If you understand that it's greater financial risk but can afford it anyway then there's no compelling reason to tell you not to buy a condo.

That said rich frat boys can show up anywhere, so don't assume that buying a condo will immunize you to them. If you live near a campus then rich frat boys will own some of those condos, too, or may buy some of them in the future. That's the risk you run for living near a campus.

# ? Mar 24, 2019 20:44

joepinetree: Apr 5, 2012

QuarkJets posted:

That reasoning all sounds fine. How does your budget look? You've accounted for the $200 difference in rent vs mortgage, but you should also budget for maintenance. Have you looked at the documentation for the condo association? Do they seem to be well-managed?

Anyway the thread is usually down on condos because they combine the downsides of apartment living (can't choose your neighbors, shared walls, etc) with the downsides of home ownership (huge costs to sell and move away, you're responsible for repairs, etc). Sometimes people look at condo ownership as the lower-cost alternative to boomers saying that you'll become rich if you buy a home (lol), or they'll only do the very simple math of "well mortgage - rent is a pretty small number that I can just barely afford, guess it makes sense for me to buy" without really thinking through the decision. Beyond that you basically just have normal home purchaser concerns; are the neighbors lovely, is the COA lovely, does the inspection reveal that the outlets aren't hooked up to anything or that the drain pipes are all filled with concrete, etc. If you understand that it's greater financial risk but can afford it anyway then there's no compelling reason to tell you not to buy a condo.

That said rich frat boys can show up anywhere, so don't assume that buying a condo will immunize you to them. If you live near a campus then rich frat boys will own some of those condos, too, or may buy some of them in the future. That's the risk you run for living near a campus.

Well, we haven't settled on a particular condo yet, so HOA is definitely one of the things we will look into once we start narrowing it down. In terms of our budget, we actually live pretty frugal lives. On a month with no travel or other major expenses we are able to save about 2k, and even with the 20% downpayment we'd still have 30k+ in liquid savings.

And yeah, we know that frat boys can show up anywhere. But in a place where people own the place I imagine the tolerance for "spilled red wine in the elevator that dries and gets sticky for 2 days before management does anything" is much smaller.

# ? Mar 24, 2019 21:08

Jealous Cow: Apr 4, 2002; by Fluffdaddy

Remember to put review of the HOA finances as a contingency in any offer you make.

# ? Mar 24, 2019 21:11

H110Hawk: Dec 28, 2006

Jealous Cow posted:

Remember to put review of the HOA finances as a contingency in any offer you make.

This twice. You really should pony up for a real estate attorney to give you an opinion on the bylaws and finances. It's commonly overlooked but it's top 5 on the list of terrible ownership things, as it covers things like the roof and sewer hookup. You also need to set aside time to attend the hoa meetings they may or may not be having, and get statements from them regularly.

For example the place I rented was an 8 unit condo where 6 of them were renters. $650k zestimate in Pasadena, CA. Naturally they were advertised as "low hoa!!!" when being sold because they just didn't do anything like maintain a service contract on their "sewage ejection pump" or "sump pump" and definitely had $0 set aside for maintenance. When the sewage ejection pump failed they hit everyone for thousands of dollars in assessments and tripled the hoa. Turned out it was like $100/month previously.

Our rent went up after that little debacle.

# ? Mar 24, 2019 21:33

Motronic: Nov 6, 2009

joepinetree posted:

even with the 20% downpayment we'd still have 30k+ in liquid savings.

Minus another 5-7% for closing costs, inspections, etc. People often forget that part.

# ? Mar 24, 2019 22:06

Andy Dufresne: Aug 4, 2010; The only good race pace is suicide pace, and today looks like a good day to die

5-7% as a buyer? I think it's closer to $2000 + whatever points you have on the mortgage for buyer closing costs in my area, at least that's what I paid (nevermind the remodeling once I moved in)

# ? Mar 25, 2019 01:35

Subjunctive: Sep 12, 2006; ✨sparkle and shine✨

Andy Dufresne posted:

5-7% as a buyer? I think it's closer to $2000 + whatever points you have on the mortgage for buyer closing costs in my area, at least that's what I paid (nevermind the remodeling once I moved in)

Depends a lot on where you are. My land transfer tax alone was 3.5% of the purchase price as the buyer.

# ? Mar 25, 2019 02:27

DR FRASIER KRANG: Feb 4, 2005; "Are you forgetting that just this afternoon I was punched in the face by a turtle now dead?

Koivunen posted:

Yeah I�m definitely over the house, but the neighborhood is already full of lovely rentals that get neglected and attract not great tenants. We put so much work into that house, it would just be nice if the people living in it were also the owners, since hopefully that motivates them to actually take care of it. I mean, they could rip down all the walls and spray paint all the wood work and cook meth in the basement, but it just feels better with it going to people who won�t immediately rent it out.

Lmao wtf

# ? Mar 25, 2019 03:31

Jealous Cow: Apr 4, 2002; by Fluffdaddy

I�m definitely over my ex, [three thousand words about ex].

# ? Mar 25, 2019 04:19

Hauki: May 11, 2010

Subjunctive posted:

Depends a lot on where you are. My land transfer tax alone was 3.5% of the purchase price as the buyer.

Yeah, depends. As a counter example, virtually all of my costs outside of an inspection & the down payment itself ended up covered one way or another.

Jealous Cow posted:

I�m definitely over my ex, [three thousand words about ex].

your... ex-house?

# ? Mar 25, 2019 04:22

Koivunen: Oct 7, 2011; there's definitely no logic
to human behaviour

There�s nothing wrong with caring about a home you lived in for a long time and the neighbors around it. One can also care about what happens to the house while still being completely over dealing with it. We listed for a reasonable, not-emotionally-influenced price and it paid off, if everything goes well.

Koivunen fucked around with this message at 09:41 on Mar 25, 2019

# ? Mar 25, 2019 07:36

Motronic: Nov 6, 2009

Andy Dufresne posted:

5-7% as a buyer? I think it's closer to $2000 + whatever points you have on the mortgage for buyer closing costs in my area, at least that's what I paid (nevermind the remodeling once I moved in)

I was around 4.5% on the place I bought last year when you count everything other than moving expenses. As Subjunctive said, it definitely depends on where you are. It also depends on which mortgage product you are using from whom.

I'm just trying to call out a reasonable number to highlight something people typically seem to forget entirely. That plus grossly underestimating moving costs and "we just HAVE to buy these window treatments/piece of furniture/etc for the new house" adds up fast.

# ? Mar 25, 2019 14:45

DaveSauce: Feb 15, 2004; Oh, how awkward.

EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:

God I hope the whole market freezes solid. It was slowing at the top end last year in my area, but we're not going to buy for another 18-24 months so it'd be super, duper dank if the bottom fell out.

Stupid question but this got me thinking:

Can a lender add PMI to a mortgage if the market tanks and suddenly I have less than 20% equity? I mean, I'd expect that's part of their risk calculations and underwriting process, but based on all the fantastic bullshit lenders pulled in the wake of the last crash I'd fully expect this to be low hanging fruit to try to mitigate losses.

This would be a situation that we never had PMI in the first place. We bought 3 years ago with slightly over 20% down, and the house appraised slightly higher than purchase price. Right now we're at around 27% equity, so it's possible that a market crash would put us under 20%.

# ? Mar 25, 2019 16:38

Hoodwinker: Nov 7, 2005

DaveSauce posted:

Stupid question but this got me thinking:

Can a lender add PMI to a mortgage if the market tanks and suddenly I have less than 20% equity? I mean, I'd expect that's part of their risk calculations and underwriting process, but based on all the fantastic bullshit lenders pulled in the wake of the last crash I'd fully expect this to be low hanging fruit to try to mitigate losses.

This would be a situation that we never had PMI in the first place. We bought 3 years ago with slightly over 20% down, and the house appraised slightly higher than purchase price. Right now we're at around 27% equity, so it's possible that a market crash would put us under 20%.

I'm not terribly experienced in all of this, but that sounds like changing the terms of the contract. They could try to make you sign a new mortgage with PMI added to it, but I can't imagine why you would be compelled to do that.

# ? Mar 25, 2019 16:54

DaveSauce: Feb 15, 2004; Oh, how awkward.

Hoodwinker posted:

I'm not terribly experienced in all of this, but that sounds like changing the terms of the contract. They could try to make you sign a new mortgage with PMI added to it, but I can't imagine why you would be compelled to do that.

My thoughts exactly. But, I don't know if there's a legal structure outside the contract that would allow them to do it, or if lenders like to bury something in the contract that gives them blanket approval to require PMI if at any point the loan-to-value exceeds 80%. I'd have to dig up my contract to find out if it's explicit, but it was never a topic of conversation since we were putting down over 20% anyhow.

It's a random passing thought, not a real concern, but I figured I'd ask.

# ? Mar 25, 2019 17:07

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# ? May 29, 2024 15:04

gtkor: Feb 21, 2011

A lender would not be able to do that on a conventional mortgage no. If you closed your loan, the appraised value at the time of closing is what your lender would base equity off of, unless you were to choose to refinance the loan somewhere down the line with the same lender again.

But at that point, you are really talking about a new loan anyway. Your current loan without PMI cannot become one with PMI due to changes in property values.

# ? Mar 25, 2019 17:15

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > House-buying thread - Why is everyone involved in this process so deeply stupid?

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