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Always love when the UKMT has hundreds of posts overnight and it's Owl with his cast iron, uncompromising personal opinions going ham all night. I'm only being semi-ironic, it's a genuine Feature of the UKMT Edit The Gibson ES-335 is the world's first commercial thinline archtop semi-acoustic electric guitar (also known as "semi-hollowbody"). Like all gibsons, it is a truly gorgeous instrument (yes, even the Flying V)
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Mar 25, 2019 07:31
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My own moment of leftist truth. I don't post that much but, born into a mining town in the middle of the strikes. Neighbours were all miners. Dad was a mechanic. Grew up with the tribal never vote Tory it's literally the worst thing you could do. Also grew up surrounded by the crippling decline of the industiral north. We were poor too, I remember one week we only had a bag of potatoes for food. But as a kid growing up I thought that's just how life was, nothing media wise I exposed myself to told me it could be any different. I was happy enough. Blair was an interesting moment, young me was surprised when everything didn't change overnight but I remember there was a real moment and feeling that things were going to finally get better. Then they didn't. Then Iraq. Then I voted lib dem in my first election (2005) out of a confused dislike of what Labour was doing and strong reluctance to vote Tory. I was a confused teenager, I knew what I stood for, economic fairness, nationalisation, social freedom, but didn't know why or how to talk about it. I also held some dodgy as gently caress opinions and even got caught on the cleggmania hype train, though voted lab that year. This thread helped give me the words, reasoning and context for why I believe what I believe so thanks goons.
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Mar 25, 2019 08:02
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Always fun to see Scottish nationalists desperately distance themselves from imperial crimes that Scotland is 100% as culpable as England for.
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Mar 25, 2019 08:11
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Comrade Fakename posted:Always fun to see Scottish nationalists desperately distance themselves from imperial crimes that Scotland is 100% as culpable as England for. Like when William Wallace almost gave Scotland independence but Robert Bruce's father betrayed him and handed him over to the English.
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Mar 25, 2019 08:26
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Turning left -> I spent a lot of time working for young, rich and entitled people from what is laughably described as the “global elite” in my 20s and early 30s in China and HK, which I’d recommend as a cure for belief in the just world fallacy. Then every time I came back to the UK I got to see the borough I grew up in basically collapsing and all the shop windows boarding up or being replaced by payday lenders, and the number of people sleeping rough going through the roof. I was always leftish as a teen and at uni but in a London liberal kind of way. Now I’m in my late 30s and a combination of reading, over a long period of time, some of the absolutely awful stuff some people in this thread have been through or seen (particularly the special hell that is dealing with DWP) and the resurgence of actual no poo poo fascism in the UK and US finished pushing me to full support for the Corbynite wing of Labour.
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Mar 25, 2019 08:40
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Barry Foster posted:Always love when the UKMT has hundreds of posts overnight and it's Owl with his cast iron, uncompromising personal opinions going ham all night. I literally have nothing else to do when I can't sleep other than argue with people on the internet. Other than eat biscuits, and the doctor told me to stop doing that. Also that is probably the kindest way anyone has described me being an unnecessarily bolshy twat so thanks.
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Mar 25, 2019 08:42
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 You can't fool me, this isn't a real newspaper, it doesn't even have any real words on it. "Scorchio"? What? "Roo's hol lot better"? That's not even a sentence! A broken AI wrote this, clearly
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Mar 25, 2019 08:44
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^^^^ scorchio is a Fast Show referenceOwlFancier posted:I literally have nothing else to do when I can't sleep other than argue with people on the internet. Other than eat biscuits, and the doctor told me to stop doing that. Might I recommend consuming cannabis? It would help with both problems Edit - the biscuit eating might become a problem again though
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Mar 25, 2019 08:49
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JFairfax posted:Fancy shoes are worth buying because they will last a very long time if you treat the leather right and keep getting them Re heeled and Re soled neither of which are particularly expensive I've gotta chip in here so no one makes the same mistake I did. Got myself a pair of all leather shoes, planning to keep them nice and polished, but wore holes in the sole after a year or so from walking to work 10 mins each way. Went to get them resoled and it was about thirty quid, about half the price of the shoes. Unless I get a job as a cobbler I'll stick to synthetic soled ones now.
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Mar 25, 2019 08:52
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Given how I react to even small amounts of alcohol that might not be a good idea. Am trying to be less of a twat though, not doing well at it thus far mind.
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Mar 25, 2019 08:52
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https://twitter.com/SayeedaWarsi/status/1109871030821113858
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Mar 25, 2019 09:01
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OwlFancier posted:Given how I react to even small amounts of alcohol that might not be a good idea. They're not really comparable, but you gotta do you So, what's on the parliamentary agenda this week dudes? Chaos notwithstanding of course. Is MV3 still actually on the menu?
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Mar 25, 2019 09:02
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If we're talking leftism still I think I started out kinda left-ism. Grew up on a farm, I think my parents were generally left-ish. I remember my dad defending having 50% tax rate once when the farm had a very good year. I drifted rightwards in my 20s and had a pseudo-libertarian phase, the one thing I could never reconcile internally was the idea of private health care and from there the rest of the facade cracked and I was drifting back. Since that revelation it has helped my put the finger on a lot of things that have bothered me as I grew up. I mean where does all the money go? We're supposedly all getting richer but to me everything is just going to gently caress, if we're so rich why did my small village go from two stores, bank and post office to nothing? Why did people seem to have more secure jobs, why did my dad and his coworkers when he was also working in a factory get free catered lunch? Like that would ever happen today by an employer. Just seemed people have better, more secure jobs and also the outlook of finding a new job was much better too. Why is the government always saying we gotta cut down on services, why are the roads getting worse, and so on and on. Always we have to cut cut cut despite having growth. There is something that doesn't make sense, if we're so much richer since I was a kid in the 80s why has everything around me degraded and the future is just more of the same bleak outlook? Well the answer became clear with time, the money got stolen by the rich, through tax cuts, liberalization of economic laws, moving jobs abroad, removing capital controls etc etc. Also the inherent instability of the capitalist system which tends towards monopolies, wealth concentration in the cities and for only the richest 10% percent, leaving the rest of us behind. I'm a radical leftist because I want a rural future and right wing economic policy is what will kill the countryside the fastest. Capitalism is inherently incompatible with rural living, it does not generate enough consumption.
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Mar 25, 2019 09:06
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Barry Foster posted:They're not really comparable, but you gotta do you https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201719/cmagenda/ob190325.htm Arguing with the PM, going through it now to see what specifically.
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Mar 25, 2019 09:06
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My dad was very left wing and very environmentalist. I don't remember him indoctrinating us - my mother couldn't stand arguments and didn't like politics even being mentioned. But she was an Anglican so we were exposed to many sermons about loving our neighbours. Anyway, my sisters and I all turned out very left and very green, so it must have been the family atmosphere rather than particular events. But in my youth I was also inclined to pacifism, which I did not get from Dad. I realize now it was a species of liberalism and excessive confidence in the power of rational argument. Years of mounting rage, chiefly at the inaction on climate change and trashing of the environment, plus campaigning for Labour for years and then getting loving Blairites instead, probably cured me of that. Although reading William Morris's Signs of Change also gave me a light bulb moment when he said "of course the fuckers won't give up their stuff peacefully" (or words to that effect).
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Mar 25, 2019 09:07
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Relevant amendments seem to be, depending on selection: Corbyn (d) give us time to sort it aaaaht cross party. “notes the Government’s Withdrawal Agreement and Framework for the Future Relationship have been defeated for a second time; further notes the alternative proposals being proposed across this House including Her Majesty’s Opposition’s plan, Common Market 2.0, for a customs union, and for a public vote; and calls on the Government to provide sufficient parliamentary time this week for this House to find a majority for a different approach.” Lib Dems: (g) give us 2 year extension for referendum “requires the Government to seek an extension of the period of two years specified in Article 50(3) of the Treaty on European Union for the purpose of holding a referendum on whether to exit the European Union under the terms of the negotiated Withdrawal Agreement or to stay in membership of the European Union.”. letwin/benn (a) suspend government business precedence “and, given the need for the House to debate and vote on alternative ways forward, with a view to the Government putting forward a plan for the House to debate and vote on, orders that – (a) Standing Order No. 14(1) (which provides that government business shall have precedence at every sitting save as provided in that order) shall not apply on Wednesday 27 March; (b) precedence on that day shall be given to a motion relating to the Business of the House in connection with matters relating to the United Kingdom’s withdrawal from the European Union other than any Business of the House motion relating to the consideration by the House of a motion under Section 13(1)(b) of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018, and then to motions relating to that withdrawal and the United Kingdom’s future relationship with the European Union other than any motion moved under Section 13(1)(b) of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018; (c) if more than one motion related to the Business of the House is tabled, the Speaker shall decide which motion shall have precedence; (d) the Speaker shall interrupt proceedings on any business before the Business of the House motion having precedence at 2.00 pm on Wednesday 27 March and call a Member to move that motion; (e) debate on that motion may continue until 3.00 pm on Wednesday 27 March at which time the Speaker shall put the questions necessary to dispose of proceedings on the motion including the questions on amendments selected by the Speaker which may then be moved; (f) when those proceedings have been concluded, the Speaker shall call a Member to move one of the other motions having precedence; (g) any proceedings interrupted or superseded by this order or an order arising from the Business of the House motion may be resumed or (as the case may be) entered upon and proceeded with after the moment of interruption on Wednesday 27 March.” brexiters: (b) WILL OF THE PEOPLE “and recalls that this sovereign Parliament gave the choice about whether the UK should remain in, or leave, the European Union to the British people in the 2016 referendum, and that in the 2017 election 85 per cent of votes were cast for political parties which committed to abiding by that decision in their manifestos, and therefore reaffirms its commitment to honour the result of the referendum that the UK should leave the European Union.”. cooper/letwin (c) basically let's double definitely affirm we aren't brexiting without a deal “notes the House’s resolution of 13 March 2019, that this House rejects the United Kingdom leaving the European Union without a Withdrawal Agreement and a Framework for the Future Relationship; further notes that the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Minister for the Cabinet Office told the House on 14 March 2019 that “the Government are giving a commitment that, if it is not possible to secure support ahead of the European Council for our withdrawal under the negotiated deal, we would have to come back to the House in the two weeks following the Council to consult through the usual channels the political parties across the House to agree on the process by which the House could then seek to find a majority”; further notes the European Council’s conclusions of 21 March 2019 that “the European Council agrees to an extension until 22 May 2019, provided the Withdrawal Agreement is approved by the House of Commons next week and that if the Withdrawal Agreement is not approved by the House of Commons next week, the European Council agrees to an extension until 12 April 2019 and expects the United Kingdom to indicate a way forward before this date for consideration by the European Council”; and therefore instructs Her Majesty’s Government, if the Withdrawal Agreement and Framework for the Future Relationship are not approved by the House of Commons by 28 March 2019, to set out by the rising of the House on Thursday 28 March 2019 how the Government will ensure the UK does not leave the European Union on 12 April 2019 without a Withdrawal Agreement and a Framework for the Future Relationship, including by seeking an extension to Article 50 to take account of any conclusions reached soubry/umunna (e) PEOPLES VOTE TIGGER SPECIAL 2 “and instructs the Prime Minister to immediately make all necessary preparations for the purposes of legislating for and conducting a public vote in which the people of the United Kingdom may give their consent for either leaving the European Union on terms to be determined by Parliament or retaining the United Kingdom’s membership of the European Union.”. buncha randos I don't recognize (f) give us a week notice to decide if we're gonna do another extension or leave with no deal “and orders that, in the event that the UK comes within seven calendar days of leaving the European Union without a deal, the Government must make arrangements within two sitting days, or if this House has been adjourned for more than four days to arrange for the House to be recalled under Standing Order No. 13 (Earlier meeting of the House in certain circumstances) for this purpose, for a Minister of the Crown to move a motion on whether this House approves the UK leaving the EU without a deal and on whether the UK Government should be required to request an extension of the period in Article 50(3) of the Treaty on European Union in order to avoid a no-deal Brexit and to give time for Parliament to determine a different approach.”. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 09:16 on Mar 25, 2019 |
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Mar 25, 2019 09:11
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Ok i now no longer support another general election because it'll mean this thread will be immediately filled with the same five arguments about the SNP being thrown in all directions at each other over and over in increasingly obnoxious tones
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Mar 25, 2019 09:14
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Cheers Owl, good effort
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Mar 25, 2019 09:18
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Still blaming you all for giving me the specific brain damage required to read and understand that poo poo. E: also apparently they're starting at half two in the afternoon because they have even lazier work schedules than I do.
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Mar 25, 2019 09:18
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Nothing makes me want another indyref like reading some daft oval office talking about blood and soil nationalism in Scotland. Almost be worth the abject economic misery post border going up just to not be part of the same country as walloppers like that. For the record, yes, looking back I see a lot of similarities between the Brexit arguments and the Indy arguments. And there is a habit in Scotland of ignoring our historical role in the Empire (a walk around Glasgow city centre looking at street names should disavow people of that) Still not blood and soil nationalism but thanks a lot for bringing back memories of ScotPol 5 years ago and Pissflaps posts on the topic.
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Mar 25, 2019 09:20
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honestly the sheer clusterfuck of the brexit experience seems as though it might cool the prospects of scottish independence a bit
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Mar 25, 2019 09:22
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Ehhhh I think they'd have a pretty good claim that being attached to England is dangerous because what's to stop the rUK from doing some more dumb poo poo in the future.
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Mar 25, 2019 09:24
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Angepain posted:Ok i now no longer support another general election because it'll mean this thread will be immediately filled with the same five arguments about the SNP being thrown in all directions at each other over and over in increasingly obnoxious tones I for one would generally be more enthusiastic about SNP critique if Scotlab weren't just a pack of useless blairites. The lack of corbyn's influence there just kinda means I at least am resigned to having the SNP as the only viable Tory alternative.
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Mar 25, 2019 09:26
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It isn't corbyn that magically made the labour party good, it's the membership that elected him. It's membership votes that have taken control of all parts of the party apparatus.
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Mar 25, 2019 09:28
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V. Illych L. posted:honestly the sheer clusterfuck of the brexit experience seems as though it might cool the prospects of scottish independence a bit That would require people learning from experience that just because something is a stupid idea, you shouldn’t make bad arguments against It. ‘Blood and soil nationalism’ is the new ‘racism’. Never frame a discussion in such a way that in order to agree with you, the other side would have to accept they, personally, are bad people.
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Mar 25, 2019 09:33
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Katt posted:Is that his son? You can tell mogg junior is a modernist as is jacket is single breasted
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Mar 25, 2019 09:33
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OwlFancier posted:It isn't corbyn that magically made the labour party good, it's the membership that elected him. Chicken, Egg etc Scotlab leaders are too busy worrying about being electable to get elected occupying the pretty vacant ground to the left of the SNP.
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Mar 25, 2019 09:44
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I mean you can form a concerted effort to infiltrate CLPs and stand your own candidates without their being existing good candidates. Particularly if scotlab have a mostly defunct membership that suggests they are ripe for entryism.
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Mar 25, 2019 09:45
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Owl sort of had a point and this thread demonstrates that with all the 'I was [various right wing positions] for a time but it still lacked a satisfying analysis of the world hence leftism'. There's a divide between observable reality/lived experience and the current ruling ideology and you go hunting for alternatives which then also get knocked about by reality until it feels right or gets proved bollocks again in your eyes. Showing fascists that they aren't powerful or able to get their way through terror and force demoralises them and shockingly lack of solidarity or emancipatory action from leftwing groups or people demoralises leftwingers. As for the SNP likely demands for independence it'll be a very tough thing to balance for a Labour governmeny given the likely pressures occurring in Ireland at the same time... namesake fucked around with this message at 09:48 on Mar 25, 2019 |
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Mar 25, 2019 09:45
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Scottish nationalism isn't a blood and soil problem, it's the same as many other nationalisms, a failure of the British government to act reasonably and also reign in capital. Ireland strongly hinted that they'd be up for a federal type arrangement in Dublin, like what London had already got working in Canada and was working on in Australia. London said stop being silly and began to fire further hot chocolate, high velocity, over the Irish Sea. The way that Britain treated the West Indies was atrocious and pretty much guaranteed losing them, whereas coming over all high minded with four freedoms and local investment could have dampened down nationalist sentiment (but that would have required the British to be less racist, which was a big ask at the time). Show me nationalism, and I'll show you a region that feels ignored and exploited (and also a capital class desperate not to be seen as the ones doing the exploiting).
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Mar 25, 2019 09:48
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mudskipp posted:I've gotta chip in here so no one makes the same mistake I did. Got myself a pair of all leather shoes, planning to keep them nice and polished, but wore holes in the sole after a year or so from walking to work 10 mins each way. Went to get them resoled and it was about thirty quid, about half the price of the shoes. Unless I get a job as a cobbler I'll stick to synthetic soled ones now. I got boots done once and it cost almost exactly as much as the boots did
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Mar 25, 2019 09:55
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V. Illych L. posted:honestly the sheer clusterfuck of the brexit experience seems as though it might cool the prospects of scottish independence a bit Leavers are making arguments which perfectly echo the argument for Scottish independence. It's staggering to be honest to see Leaver's rational supported and respected on tv and then Scottish independence for exactly the same reasons are just, "Eh, you had your vote." Arrogance is killing the UK and I am all for it.
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Mar 25, 2019 09:56
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Katt posted:What's the deal with shoestrings on fancy shoes? It's like they're made out of that little twig that comes with apples (apple handle?) and you try to tie them and they won't have it. It's so the tied knot can be hidden under the tongue of the shoe, IIRC. however most people don't bother doing that.
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Mar 25, 2019 09:59
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When I was young, Dad took us on holiday to Poland for four weeks, credit transfer didn't come through so we lived off bread and water. Highlights included reading the book of Job and beating the elite 4 in Pokémon yellow on the way to Auschwitz. Sure as day follows night, I have been a leftist ever since
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Mar 25, 2019 10:03
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Katt posted:that little twig that comes with apples (apple handle?) e: ^ Pokemon made me a Nietzschean individualist. I want to be the very best, like no one ever was.
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Mar 25, 2019 10:03
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Banging on about 'blood and soil nationalism' and arguing that the left should concede the far right project of Brexit in the name of the territorial integrity of the Empire in the same breath
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Mar 25, 2019 10:04
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OwlFancier posted:It isn't corbyn that magically made the labour party good, it's the membership that elected him. Scotlab voted for Noted Normal Penis Haver Owen Smith in the last leadership election, lol.
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Mar 25, 2019 10:09
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mudskipp posted:I've gotta chip in here so no one makes the same mistake I did. Got myself a pair of all leather shoes, planning to keep them nice and polished, but wore holes in the sole after a year or so from walking to work 10 mins each way. Went to get them resoled and it was about thirty quid, about half the price of the shoes. Unless I get a job as a cobbler I'll stick to synthetic soled ones now. Leather-soled shoes are for formal occasions and dancing, anyone claiming they're superior to literally any alternative that's existed for the last two hundred years is Jacob Rees-Mogg.
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Mar 25, 2019 10:11
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Obliterati posted:Banging on about 'blood and soil nationalism' and arguing that the left should concede the far right project of Brexit in the name of the territorial integrity of the Empire in the same breath attacking a strawman to own the libs
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Mar 25, 2019 10:13
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Ok. It's Monday. I had to turn off the news for a couple of days and binge on escapisms. Briefly caught up everything. I've had many foreign friends ask me "What's going to happen in the UK." ... and I'm still speechless. I genuinely don't know. I wonder what the PM Gove timeline is going to be like? Or that Chancellor to the Duchy of Lancaster bloke whose name I can't even remember (where did he come from?) who is also Deputy PM, apparently, and could become PM by default? In or out? My gut reaction is to prepare for a forced hard brexit by default. All our PM has to do is to do nothing, and they all seem good at doing that. Then from there? It'll be a brave new world. e: OwlFancier posted::stuff: Thanks! fuctifino fucked around with this message at 10:17 on Mar 25, 2019 |
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Mar 25, 2019 10:15
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