|
Also, my favorite thing about the ending is It's never explicitly stated that Adelaide has repressed her memories as Tethered or anything. There is a totally valid read to the film where her hesitancy to return to the beach is due to her awareness of returning to the scene of a crime.
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2019 04:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 17:10 |
|
|
Space Cadet Omoly posted:Are there any hints in the movie about how Pluto, Jason's double, got his burns or why he loves fire? Is it just one of those "Cause it's spooky" things or did I miss something? I think it's because he was mirroring Jason playing with the fake lighter the year before, except he did it with real matches
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2019 04:11
|
|
|
Fart City posted:Also, my favorite thing about the ending is It's never explicitly stated that Adelaide has repressed her memories as Tethered or anything. There is a totally valid read to the film where her hesitancy to return to the beach is due to her awareness of returning to the scene of a crime. In fact, her knowing exactly where the secret entrance in the fun-house is when Jason gets taken and a lot of her other behavior was seems to directly imply she never repressed her memories at all. Her having known the whole time that she was one of the tethered seems like the interpretation most directly supported by the film. Z. Autobahn posted:I think it's because he was mirroring Jason playing with the fake lighter the year before, except he did it with real matches That makes sense, thanks.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2019 05:17
|
|
|
My favorite random detail of the movie: When Red is monologuing in front of the chalk board, she says something along the lines of "Up there is our time. Its our time up there!" Which is opposite of the line from the Goonies ("Its our time down here!") which was featured on the shelf at the beginning of the movie.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2019 05:23
|
|
|
Bellmaker posted:So I did enjoy this quite a bit. why would you put spoiler tags individually on every paragraph, jesus
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2019 06:30
|
|
|
Batmasterson posted:My favorite random detail of the movie: I think I was the only person in the theater who laughed at this part.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2019 07:58
|
|
|
Overall I thought it was good, but flawed. Get Out is a pretty tough act to follow. The best part of the movie was the sequence between The white family's tethers showing up through the end of 'gently caress Tha Police', everything in that 5-10min was just perfect... The worst part was the exposition dumps, mainly the second one which felt less necessary and went on for way too long. The humor worked just fine for me and I didn't get tonal whiplash.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2019 08:28
|
|
|
TOOT BOOT posted:Overall I thought it was good, but flawed. Get Out is a pretty tough act to follow. Everything with the white family was really good. How the movie implies they are all awful people was very effective. The t-shirt Tim Heidecker wore during the beach scene that said 'fragile' got a laugh out me. side_burned fucked around with this message at 09:38 on Mar 25, 2019 |
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2019 09:35
|
|
Space Cadet Omoly posted:Are there any hints in the movie about how Pluto, Jason's double, got his burns or why he loves fire? Is it just one of those "Cause it's spooky" things or did I miss something? Jason's "magic trick" is identical to the ignition mechanism of a gas cigarette lighter. Pluto didn't have that and was playing with matches instead, so he must have set something on fire - maybe a previous mask, closer to Jason's one, given the location of his wounds? They are on the bottom half of his face cause the match must have ignited the bottom part of the mask and burned him before he was able to remove it. By the way, Pluto's mask is a fireproof one, similar to the ones racing drivers/pit stop crew/firefighters would wear. That Italian Guy fucked around with this message at 10:27 on Mar 25, 2019 |
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2019 10:23
|
|
|
There's a theory going around about how Jason was swapped years ago, because he learned new words and is weird, but I don't see what this would add to any reading of the movie; also, you never met any kid?
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2019 11:38
|
|
|
The movie reminded me a lot of the Box, which I also really liked, but did give me the feeling like it was a Twilight Zone episode stretched beyond its normal runtime. It's like the difference between a short story and a novel, where the length of time necessitates certain arcs and explanations that don't necessarily benefit the experience. There were definitely things I didn't like or didn't work for me; the moments of tension and threat felt so gripping that the moments of comedy and levity felt kind of atonal. I was also expecting the dad to get killed by his doppelganger almost immediately, and when he didn't, the family felt a little too 'safe' for my liking. I liked that the explanation at the end still left a lot to the imagination, but I wish they'd found a way other than a long monologue over a montage, or maybe shortened it a bit. It's dumb, but I feel like if Red's explanation had been a little less elaborate, it wouldn't have bothered me that they don't explain why all the doppelgangers dress in red, wear one glove, and use scissors. Lupita Nyong'o was magnificent in both her parts. Wow. The movie does leave you with a lot to think about. The Tethered as a symbol for the underclass that the middle- and upper class ignores until they rise up? Imitating Hands Across America for the completely hollow 'statement' that it is? I kept trying to remember some story where a person uses scissors to rip off someone's shadow, but kept thinking of Peter Pan instead (where a shadow gets sewed back on, I think). Also, the white rabbits, Alice in Wonderland and Through The Looking Glass? I feel like there's more there, though maybe it's just about research animals. Overall, not the knock-out-of-the-park that Get Out was, but Peele still soundly has me by the ear for the stories he wants to tell. And yeah, very hard not to think of the Key & Peele hall of mirrors sketch.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2019 12:22
|
|
|
Anyone else think that Jason is also one of the switched untethered like Adelaide? This video is pretty convincing explanation on all the hints that Jordan gives to back up that theory https://youtu.be/Si_EOJQNclY
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2019 12:31
|
|
davidspackage posted:they don't explain why all the doppelgangers dress in red, wear one glove  Red is trying to be scary, and MJ Thriller gave her nightmares the last time she was above the ground, so it has to be scary for everyone, in her mind.
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2019 12:40
|
|
|
That Italian Guy posted:
Oh God I'm a moron, I'm a loving moron. I kinda got the MJ glove but not the red suit! ... Forgot to mention that the soundtrack is loving amazing. Keep bringing those sounds of Africa. Lastly, I wonder if movie might've worked slightly better if Red's explanatory monologue slowly revealed that Adelaide had taken her place. It might've made for a more generic horror twist, but I feel like it would've worked better than sticking it at the very end. Also, again, had dad gotten killed by his doppelganger - imagine being stalked by a hooting, growling version of your giant enormous teddybear dad. In the scene where dad lies down on the bed my immediate thought was "how is any other person supposed to fit on that bed with him?"
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2019 12:48
|
|
|
Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:Anyone else think that Lol he’s just a kid, I have nephews who act identical to Jason. If anything maybe he’s more in sync with his tether but it took Adelaide years to learn social norms and unless the swap happened as babies (which neither mom would have a reason to do). Jason wouldn’t be as fluent speaking as he is.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2019 12:54
|
|
|
Space Cadet Omoly posted:In fact, her knowing exactly where the secret entrance in the fun-house is when Jason gets taken and a lot of her other behavior was seems to directly imply she never repressed her memories at all. Her having known the whole time that she was one of the tethered seems like the interpretation most directly supported by the film. it's a perfectly valid reading but her not knowing seems to be what the film is going for. Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:Anyone else think that this is the video i talked about a few pages back being dumb lol
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2019 13:12
|
|
|
I'm liking this movie more as I think about it and expect a second viewing will make me appreciate it more. Does anyone have thoughts of significance on names? The Alexa-like system is called Ophelia. I know that's a character in Hamlet, but not much beyond that. Opheleia is "help" in Greek... more than that? It occurred to me that since the Tethered don't speak, Red must've chosen the names for her family herself. Umbrae, Latin for shadow. Abraham... patriarch? Pluto, ruler of the underworld.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2019 13:20
|
|
|
I really don't like the Jason also switched theory. I think that it drastically undercuts the significance of the ending.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2019 13:59
|
|
|
a new study bible! posted:I really don't like the Jason also switched theory. I think that it drastically undercuts the significance of the ending.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2019 14:12
|
|
|
I liked it a lot, but the only thing I have to say that I haven't seen anyone talk about: One thing I noticed and was holding onto but never seemed to mean anything was, in one scene at the vacation house before it hits the fan, Jason is in his room and on a dresser in the background is a pack of Marlboro lights. None of the family smoke, but that's the same brand Ade's dad smokes. And then when she notices Jason's creepy drawing on that dresser, the cigarettes aren't there. And it never comes up again. Of course it's possible I somehow mistook a different object for a pack of cigarettes, but I don't think so. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2019 14:14
|
|
|
I think the reason I dislike the twist at the end so much is because while I agree with the reading that it’s not supposed to be a Usual Suspects-style thing that recontextualizes all the events thus far (and more a moral point about your upbringing and circumstances deciding who you are as opposed to any inherent traits), even that is undermined by the way Peele telegraphs it, where Jason notices twice that his mom enjoys murder a little too much.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2019 14:25
|
|
|
That Italian Guy posted:
I think the jumpsuits at least in part have to be inspired by the Hands Across America ad, where they're all red. It's possible that pre-switch Adelaide saw that ad and genuinely thought it was something that would work, and internalized that idea. Since she didn't emotionally grow like a normal person once she got kidnapped, that just took root instead of being something you look at later in life and think "oh that's really dumb and ineffective". So her idea wasn't just to kill all the normal people, it was to create this chain because it would be the thing that "fixes" everything.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2019 14:47
|
|
|
DC Murderverse posted:So her idea wasn't just to kill all the normal people, it was to create this chain because it would be the thing that "fixes" everything. I need to rewatch this soon; I'm too caught up in symbolismchat about it and I'm starting to trick myself that the movie's execution of its ideas was as strong as the ideas themselves. I've got an idealized version of it going in my head, and I kind of can't wait to check myself on that (and see how much holds up in a second viewing)
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2019 14:55
|
|
|
who can forget michael jackson's iconic thriller look "a uh plain red jumpsuit with a single brown leather glove and big golden scissors for some reason"
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2019 14:56
|
|
|
Thom and the Heads posted:who can forget michael jackson's iconic thriller look "a uh plain red jumpsuit with a single brown leather glove and big golden scissors for some reason"
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2019 14:59
|
|
|
Whalley posted:Of course you don't, it's a stupid dumb idiot theory that ruins the movie yup! slate's opening to their explainer is funny: "For the sake of (relative) simplicity, we’ll refer to the original Adelaide, the one who spends most of the movie in a red jumpsuit, as Adelaide, and the doppelgänger, who spends most of the movie in regular clothing, as Red. It was Adelaide, who was forced to trade places with Red when the two were children, who was the mastermind behind the Untethering." this is the opposite of simplicity. it's incredibly confusing.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2019 15:45
|
|
|
I loved the movie, but I think the criticism about the exposition is valid. I do think, though, that it was important to the subtext that the clones and their abandonment was a purposeful product of the government trying to control the populous, in exactly the same way the real lower class exists and struggles because of government supported institutions and lack of accountability. I think making it completely magical and without source would rob the movie of most of it's meaning and significance. That said, I do think the movie sacrifices a bit of the main plot in service of the excellent symbolism. While I think it works overall, whether anyone else likes it or not is going to depend on their suspension of disbelief, which is relative. I do think it might have streamlined things a bit if the reveal of the twist had occurred with the final Red exposition or fight.DC Murderverse posted:I think the jumpsuits at least in part have to be inspired by the Hands Across America ad, where they're all red. It's possible that pre-switch Adelaide saw that ad and genuinely thought it was something that would work, and internalized that idea. Since she didn't emotionally grow like a normal person once she got kidnapped, that just took root instead of being something you look at later in life and think "oh that's really dumb and ineffective". So her idea wasn't just to kill all the normal people, it was to create this chain because it would be the thing that "fixes" everything. During the opening Hands Across America ad, you can actually see young Adelaide's reflection in the TV screen, so this is exactly what happened. Thinking about the opening, I think that ad was supposed to parallel the wall of rabbits opening, which would have been what the double was staring at while mimicking Adelaide. I remember thinking that scene went on a little too long for simply setting the mood, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if both lasted the same amount of time.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2019 15:47
|
|
|
davidspackage posted:Lastly, I wonder if movie might've worked slightly better if Red's explanatory monologue slowly revealed that Adelaide had taken her place. It might've made for a more generic horror twist, but I feel like it would've worked better than sticking it at the very end. Also, again, had dad gotten killed by his doppelganger - imagine being stalked by a hooting, growling version of your giant enormous teddybear dad. In the scene where dad lies down on the bed my immediate thought was "how is any other person supposed to fit on that bed with him?" Overall I really liked it, I think the flaws are more obvious than they are with Get Out, but are similar in nature so they don't really bother me. As of now I'd say I liked Get Out more, but I think it had the advantage of no expectations, I'd have to watch this again to really say. It's at worst a solid follow-up to a breakout hit and at best it's on par with his first film which is incredibly difficult to do.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2019 15:48
|
|
Cat Army
|
Ouhei posted:I agree that it would have made sense to work it in there, but he really wanted to keep it to the end (just like Thriller). Thriller again! God drat!
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2019 16:09
|
|
|
Phone posting but I wanted to pop back in and say that I slept on the movie and like it a lot more, it's great. All my earlier complaints can be chalked up to unreliable narrator.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2019 16:09
|
|
|
I do love how Thriller has been re-contextualized in the wake of the new round of MJ child abuse allegations. I winced a bit when the shirt appeared, because it's obvious the movie was made before the Neverland doc, but being the inspiration for the uniform of Red's revengers changes things.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2019 16:17
|
|
|
I think I missed a beat, what was the significance of the Fettered holding hands across the nation? I don't quite get how it relates to what I understand. Like, okay, I kinda get that it was the last thing Red saw before she got pushed down there, but isn't the plan for each Fettered to kill their original and replace them? That part I get, but I don't understand how it aligns with "stand and hold hands". A show of force? Also, was there any importance to the Dude in a coat holding his arms out early on? I get that he's kinda the start of the holding-hands chain, but given there's a second lingering shot of him and his face, later on, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be getting out of it. Is he just some random Fettered that off his original?
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2019 17:00
|
|
|
is that a joke post.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2019 17:01
|
|
|
MisterBibs posted:I think I missed a beat, what was the significance of the Fettered holding hands across the nation? I don't quite get how it relates to what I understand. It's one of the dudes Red first saw as a kid, the sign holder. The Hands Across America is as she says a statement a show of power.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2019 17:02
|
|
Honest Thief posted:It's one of the dudes Red first saw as a kid, the sign holder. The Hands Across America is as she says a statement a show of power. He's also dressed in the jacket the "original" sign holder was wearing (on top of his red jumpsuit? Can't remember). The original being the dude on the stretcher and covered in stab wounds they run into when they first get into town. I would argue that the scene is another red herring to let us think there is something supernatural going on - since Jason seems to be the only one to notice the clone, and the clone himself disappears somewhere - but everyone looking away from a blood covered, dirty homeless man on a beach is on point with the message of the movie, so eh.
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2019 17:07
|
|
|
I loved this movie. The exposition dump bugged me at first, and how none of it makes a lot of concrete sense, but I think this movie simply has no interest in telling a literal story. Red's monologue at the beginning starts with 'Once Upon a Time'. The whole thing is a dreamlike fairy tale about how horrifying America is, and doesn't feel the need to adhere to any kind of actual, physical logic. It's oddly C.S. Lewis-y in this regard. The layers and symbolism (NOTHING in this movie means just ONE thing) reinforce this over and over again, brilliantly, in my opinion. With a lot of movies this would probably bother me, but it's just so well done that I don't mind at all.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2019 17:12
|
|
|
The problem this movie's going to face is that it will invite a lot of literal interpretations, when it doesn't hold up to that scrutiny at all. To wit, How did they get their clothes? How did they get all the red fabric to make jumpsuits, or indeed fabric of any kind? How did they print a Thriller logo on a T-shirt? Was there a tethered Michael Jackson who made a bad version of Thriller which the other tethered then pretended to sell merchandise for? Where did Pluto get his matches from? Where did they get scissors? Where did they get handcuffs? Because none of this makes any literal sense, I don't think you can read a literal interpretation of the tethered's status into the movie. They aren't underprivileged because none of the usual signifiers of being underprivileged even apply to them. They don't have an economy but they simply conjure the material goods they need to pantomime the activities of their counterparts. Really, the existence of the tethered and their underground civilization is purely fortean, there's no possible rational explanation for it. For that reason, I think it's worth reading more into evil Adelaide's mysticism. The encounter between Adelaide and her counterpart is portrayed as a profane act, a forbidden intersection between worlds. That intersection disrupts the balance between the two dominions and ends up collapsing both world orders. That's not to say that those world orders are entirely benign; the tethered are bound while their counterparts remain ignorant. The force of the tethered world is so absolute that even a "regular" human will be compelled into their behaviors just by existing there. Only by acquiring forbidden knowledge is the boundary between the two worlds able to be broken. To me, then, the movie conveys three main ideas: 1) People will conform to the nature of their surroundings. 2) The status quo is natural. 3) Disrupting the status quo is horrifically violent. Now, the whether these messages are positive or not will be up to your particular political ideology. A Marxist reading would probably find the disruption of the status quo comforting, for example.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2019 17:16
|
|
|
I've started considering the option that Red may have just made up a ton of stuff about the underground lair to explain it to herself. There are no other clones able to communicate and the "project" has been abandoned for a loong time...she would have had learned the story of the place from contextual clues (unless the doctors running the place have literally left notes on their research for everyone to find); the whole deal would make more sense (at least from a superficial story POV) if her explanation at the end was literally "magic shadow world, lol", although the Government not being involved would blunt a lot of the message of the movie. The underground lair being some kind of supernatural thing, with Red rationalizing it as a Government abandoned project would go a long way to explain a lot of inconsistencies. That Italian Guy fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Mar 25, 2019 |
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2019 17:18
|
|
|
Fettered? And I totally agree with some of the previous posts about not taking the plot holes so literally. It’s not all supposed to make sense. Paperback Writer fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Mar 25, 2019 |
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2019 17:32
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 17:10 |
|
They are birds of a 
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2019 17:36
|
|