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I think his virgin take was you getting exposed to his movies for the first time and nothing malicious.
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Mar 25, 2019 16:59
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The only reason people talk about how lovely Zack Snyder's movies are so much is that some people keep being condescending assholes in trying to prove they weren't lovely. Like you don't see me harping on about Michael Bay's TMNT movies, because even though some people enjoyed the second one, they don't post videos of Michael Bay owning the libs who didn't like the turtles being 12 feet tall bulletproof monsters. If there's any interesting discussion to be had about the negatives and positives of Zack Snyder's DC films it's not gonna happen on these forums unless a whole bunch of people get banned.
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Mar 25, 2019 17:00
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JazzFlight posted:Teenage Fansub quoted it earlier, here's a transcription of at least part of it: Man, Joel Schumacher's got thicker skin than him.
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Mar 25, 2019 17:02
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People say the "Jock vs. Nerd" thing is irrelevant but what about this "Nerds keep trying to fit in with the Jock crowd partly by putting down other Nerds and taking up ill suited hobbies to prove something"(maybe there's a shorter term) because I keep meeting relative adults who fit this and I just can't wrap my head around it. I don't mean nerds who like sports or working out necessarily but I can't shake this feeling every time someone defends Zach Snyder. Like I kinda like some of his stuff but basically all of his expressed opinions are terrible. So like why defend him, he really comes off as a douche, drunk and stressed or not.
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Mar 25, 2019 17:02
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Endless Mike posted:If you've done this in a professional context, you probably shouldn't have your job. Are they gonna fire him again?
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Mar 25, 2019 17:06
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X-O posted:I'm thinking we're really inching close to a Snyder moratorium. My bad. I know how much dislike there is of Snyder around here, so apologies from centering discussion around him. Just thought it would be cool for people to hear his side/perspective on filmmaking, and I really do encourage anyone to watch those Q&As even if you don't like his work. It won't change your mind, but I personally think it's always interesting to hear an artist's intent and process. [Edit] Endless Mike posted:If you've done this in a professional context, you probably shouldn't have your job. Ehh, it was Snyder cutting loose with his fans at a charity event he was hosting to help refurbish his old art school's theater. He can say whatever there. If it was like a press junket then yeah, no way that would fly lol. Vintersorg posted:I think his virgin take was you getting exposed to his movies for the first time and nothing malicious. Yeah, think it was this as well. The "fratboy jock" image he still carries makes it hard for people to accept though, but I get it. teagone fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Mar 25, 2019 |
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Mar 25, 2019 17:21
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I liked Dawn of the Dead 2004 for the record. That movie has a fun commentary track.
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Mar 25, 2019 17:24
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Snyder is clearly talented but his take on superheroes is flawed at best and every time he tries to defend himself he ends up making things worse. FWIW, I like MoS and Watchmen, and his Dawn remake is the best thing he’s done. I wish he’d just take a break from cape movies and do his own thing. I’d like to see what he’d do with a pure sci-fi setting and zero established characters.
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Mar 25, 2019 17:31
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Snyder is clearly talented but his take on superheroes is flawed at best and every time he tries to defend himself he ends up making things worse. FWIW, I like MoS and Watchmen, and his Dawn remake is the best thing he’s done. I wish he’d just take a break from cape movies and do his own thing. I’d like to see what he’d do with a pure sci-fi setting and zero established characters. Sucker Punch? (Which is the only original property he's done).
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Mar 25, 2019 17:32
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Davros1 posted:Sucker Punch? (Which is the only original property he's done). I’ve never seen it but isn’t it more horror/fantasy?
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Mar 25, 2019 17:34
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Snyder is clearly talented but his take on superheroes is flawed at best and every time he tries to defend himself he ends up making things worse. FWIW, I like MoS and Watchmen, and his Dawn remake is the best thing he’s done. I wish he’d just take a break from cape movies and do his own thing. I’d like to see what he’d do with a pure sci-fi setting and zero established characters. He's going to back to his roots with that zombie heist movie for Netflix 
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Mar 25, 2019 17:35
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Tfw I'm gone for an hour and a half and there's 38 new posts but it's just Snyder chat part 52
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Mar 25, 2019 17:35
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X-O posted:I'm thinking we're really inching close to a Snyder moratorium. Arist posted:oh please god
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Mar 25, 2019 17:52
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X-O posted:I'm thinking we're really inching close to a Snyder moratorium. or you could just cut the source of the insufferable takes Just throwing it out there, maybe after the third moratorium it should be obvious that the subject of the discussion is not the problem.
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Mar 25, 2019 17:56
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Just saw The Lego Batman Movie for the first time. That's a fun movie!
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Mar 25, 2019 18:01
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Phylodox posted:After watching Aquaman the impression I was left with was of a modern day The Phantom; it’s bright and fun and stupid and over the top and absolutely no one is going to remember it a year from now. So Avatar basically? I saw it and remembered liking it but I can't remember one damned thing about it and was surprised to see it's still the #1 highest money maker of all time.
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Mar 25, 2019 18:13
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Somebody needs to tell Snyder that Batman isn’t real. Of COURSE he is part of a fantasy, or a “dream” world. That’s like, the entire loving point of comics, movies, ya know... fiction? And don’t come at me with some “what about [very serious drama]?” BS. The appeal of any of those stories is contingent on the viewer’s fantasy of experiencing profound heartbreak, feeling true passion, surviving tragedy, etc.
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Mar 25, 2019 18:13
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I just don't understand why people get upset/offended when someone says they didn't enjoy a Snyder film. People seem to take it so personally when someone says they don't like his work.
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Mar 25, 2019 18:14
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Sgt. Politeness posted:People say the "Jock vs. Nerd" thing is irrelevant but what about this "Nerds keep trying to fit in with the Jock crowd partly by putting down other Nerds and taking up ill suited hobbies to prove something"(maybe there's a shorter term) because I keep meeting relative adults who fit this and I just can't wrap my head around it. Toxic masculinity is what you are looking for. I mean I think what I am going for is that it's not really about nerds vs jocks because that usually operates on a certain notion of a jock anyway. Just because you like sports doesn't mean you can't like videogames or comic book movies or science or stuff like that. The real divide is more about whether you are an rear end in a top hat and that cuts across this stuff. To use fictional examples there's a difference between Steve Rogers and Gaston from Beauty and the Beast. And between most of the cast of Into the Spiderverse and the cast of the Big Bang Theory. Fangz fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Mar 25, 2019 |
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Mar 25, 2019 18:23
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Davros1 posted:I just don't understand why people get upset/offended when someone says they didn't enjoy a Snyder film. People seem to take it so personally when someone says they don't like his work. At this point, it’s self-perpetuating. They’ve spent so long defending his movies and reiterating the same points over and over and over that any criticism sends them straight into full-blown argument mode. This might be your first time criticizing a certain point, but it’s their fiftieth time having to defend it. And that constant assault has made it so much a part of their identity that no criticism can go unanswered, refuted, thoroughly and logically debunked.
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Mar 25, 2019 18:55
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Phylodox posted:At this point, it’s self-perpetuating. They’ve spent so long defending his movies and reiterating the same points over and over and over that any criticism sends them straight into full-blown argument mode. This might be your first time criticizing a certain point, but it’s their fiftieth time having to defend it. And that constant assault has made it so much a part of their identity that no criticism can go unanswered, refuted, thoroughly and logically debunked. Hopefully they'll come around. I would white knight the Raimi films back on the SuperHeroHype forums and now I don't give a crap.
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Mar 25, 2019 18:59
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Okay and rereading that quote andquote:I'm like gently caress.. really. Like... like .. like .. like I'm like wake the gently caress UP. It's like ya know that's all. That's what I'm saying about like once you've lost your virginity to this FUCKIN' movie and then you come and say to me something about like 'oh my superhero wouldn't do that.' I'm like I'm like down the fuckin' road on that, you know what I mean? And it's a cool point of view. Like I'm 100% fine .. it's a cool POV to be like 'My heroes are innocent. My heroes didn't like fuckin, ya know, LIE to America. My heroes didn't fuckin' ya know embezzle money, my heroes didn't fuckin' commit any atrocities. I'm like that's cool but you're livin' in a fuckin' dreamworld. And I guess, ya know, so the cool thing is like mythologically-speaking I'm 100% fine and by the way I love anything more than Superman and Batman, but in the same way that Alan Moore was fed up with the fuckin' like OK 'no ya know .. they do THIS I assume he's thinking of Watchmen here. He does realise that Alan Moore wrote a story that ends with Superman saying that he can't be Superman anymore after he took a life. At this point I'm pretty sure he hasn't actually read any Superman comics outside of maybe Death of Superman nor any Batman comics outside of The Dark Knight Returns.
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Mar 25, 2019 19:01
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That reminds me, I had a dream last night where I had opened a portal through time so I could post on the Internet in the early 2000's Wizard World message board. I wanted to warn people about things like 9/11, the credit crisis and Trump, but instead spent all my time just describing what the MCU were going to be like. The more I think about it, the more I am convinced it would be so cool to just blow people's minds by telling them stuff like how Ironman's mid credits scene was going to revolutionize the cinema industry.
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Mar 25, 2019 19:05
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teagone posted:A guy who has probably had a few cocktails and is finally venting out his frustrations in public after years of being heavily criticized and bullied by shitheads online. Except he does this constantly. And he always makes bad faith arguments contingent on either a reading of the source material that’s factually untrue, like when he said “Batman in the Dark Knight Returns kills people all the time”, or by insulting his audience, like he did here. And he keeps talking about how he’s following the works of people like Alan Moore when Alan Moore himself has gone “you don’t get my work”. He can’t defend his work on its own merits, it’s all “I’m actually closer to the source material than anyone, you’re all just wrong”, with the occasional dash of “you’re all virgins” sprinkled on top.
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Mar 25, 2019 19:06
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I've been rewatching the marvel movies and it's interesting to note that there are no midcredit scenes until Thor 2, which had both mid she post. (hulk had one, but no post credit)
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Mar 25, 2019 19:21
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Soonmot posted:I've been rewatching the marvel movies and it's interesting to note that there are no midcredit scenes until Thor 2, which had both mid she post. (hulk had one, but no post credit) I thought Avengers was the first to do a mid-credits scene, with the Thanos tease
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Mar 25, 2019 19:31
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The double scenes are relatively new. And they almost always follow the format now that the first one is the plot relevant one, and the final one is a joke.
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Mar 25, 2019 19:40
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Man of Steel is definitely my favorite DC movie and probably top 3 for comic book movies, but Dawn of Justice had a definite drop-off in the writing and pacing departments. Even then, I enjoyed it more than Aquaman, so I'm not a "Snyder hater". With that said, Snyder's justifications for Batman killing are just as empty as the arguments against killing, especially since it's not explicitly explored. And to top it off he sounds like a jackass. For Batman to have a rogues gallery at all (assuming it's not just a stream of new villains that he desperately tries to murder) he must have some rules he follows that the rogues specifically abuse, otherwise he's just a really inefficient Punisher. I don't mind a "different" or inconsistent take on Batman that seems to collect things that visually might be interesting while never directly addressing them, but I do mind when he starts trying to explain himself and it really is as shallow as everyone expected.
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Mar 25, 2019 19:41
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Lobok posted:Hopefully they'll come around. I would white knight the Raimi films back on the SuperHeroHype forums and now I don't give a crap. Spider-Man 2 is the perfect "comic book movie" and nothing the MCU or WB/DC or Fox or whoever else has put out has matched its pure comic booky-ness imo (for live action stuff). Plus the train fight set piece will always be my top superhero moment put to film, right up there with Wonder Woman's No Man's Land/Town liberation scene. Spider-Man 1 is pretty mediocre, and 3 is a little below mediocre. But I have a strong opinion that 2 is one of the best comic book movies adaptations ever made and will always go to bat for the film. I'm not even a Raimi fan, but there's just so many good things about Spider-Man 2 that makes it so drat watchable.
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Mar 25, 2019 20:04
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teagone posted:Spider-Man 2 is the perfect "comic book movie" and nothing the MCU or WB/DC or Fox or whoever else has put out has matched its pure comic booky-ness imo (for live action stuff). Plus the train fight set piece will always be my top superhero moment put to film, right up there with Wonder Woman's No Man's Land/Town liberation scene. Spider-Man 1 is pretty mediocre, and 3 is a little below mediocre. But I have a strong opinion that 2 is one of the best comic book movies adaptations ever made and will always go to bat for the film. I'm not even a Raimi fan, but there's just so many good things about Spider-Man 2 that makes it so drat watchable. It also features the greatest line read of any generation. Pizza time.
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Mar 25, 2019 20:08
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Abroham Lincoln posted:It also features the greatest line read of any generation. Yeah that's a good line. I also like when Parker gets smacked in the face by backpacks when he's scrambling to pick up his poo poo. Get owned Parker, lol. I think my favorite trivia bit is one of those guys that hits him the face with their bag is actually Raimi lol.
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Mar 25, 2019 20:15
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The greatest action beat, not scene, but beat in any super-hero film is in Spider-Man 2 when that police car flips through the air and then stops like someone hit the pause button. And then that lady is all like "it's a web!? Go Spidey go!" and he swings in and the camera follows his arc down and he slides between the cab of a lorry and the back. That bit was sooooo sick! There has been five Spider-Man films since and they haven't even come close to doing something as bodacious as that.
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Mar 25, 2019 20:25
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The identity reveal to Mary Jane in Spider-Man 2 is my probably my favorite character moment actually. The swelling score, and it finally happening in context of the film is such a good highpoint. And the exchanged "Hi's" as Parker is holding up that big rear end piece of rubble and says "this is really heavy" is such a great serious/comedic beat. Spider-Man 2 owns.
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Mar 25, 2019 20:36
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I loved Spider-Man 2 for years, but nowadays I can't look past the whole "all of Octopus's evil was enabled by the sentient robot tentacles stuck to his back" thing.
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Mar 25, 2019 20:44
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:Honestly, I think he's right in his essential argument that Whedon is responsible for a lot of the success of the original Avengers movie, and that that was a lot more difficult of a task to pull off at the time than it now looks in retrospect. Avengers had to do an enormous amount of initial heavy lifting; functionally introduce three new superheroes (BW and Hawkeye appeared in previous marvel films for blink-and-you'll-miss-them values of 'appeared', but Avengers is where they got characterization), two of which weren't well know to non-comics audiences, and get three other superheroes who have never interacted in the same room together, while at the same time being an actual movie with an act structure and a runtime under three hours. And he did it successfully by relying on "Whedonisms"; quippy little bits of punchy dialogue that make the audience laugh but also do double duty of expressing characterization or highlighting a theme. When everyone always only speaks in Whedonisms, it's annoying, but in the short term they do a good job of pinning an iconic aspect of a character down in a very memorable way: "I understood that reference", or "I'm always angry", or even just "We have a Hulk", which is a funny rejoinder, but also Tony Stark, massive egotistical narcissist, referring to himself as part of a "we" for the first time in, like, ever. It's iconic, memorable, and fast, which means you can smash a huge cast together in the same film without it getting tedious. This post is a week+ old but I needed to quote it just to agree. There is so much loving backlash from the MCU trying to do Whedon quippiness and running it into the ground that people forget that Avengers 1 was actually a loving amazing tightrope walk of a movie to make and Whedon pulled it off because he can write fun, snappy dialogue that instantly characterizes people and that's a rare talent to have. Sure say what you want about his TV lighting and his TV style directing, obviously the man came from television and that's what he's best at. But I don't think any other writer could have handled that material as well, and the backlash to Whedon is mostly just people reacting to a trend of quippiness that kept going after him and was done worse and worse with every person who followed (except James Gunn, the Guardians movies are probably the most creative in the whole MCU). And yea, loving shame about Age of Ultron but I'm willing to assign blame to the studio execs on that one with them demanding too many plot hooks for future movies. Did we really need the Ragnarok tease sequence? Oh, and to be a little current and on topic, Spider-man 2 is probably the best non-MCU superhero movie of all time, and Alfred Molina is definitely up there for best villain of all time. WampaLord fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Mar 25, 2019 |
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Mar 25, 2019 20:56
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The greatest action beat in Spider-Man 2 is him catching Aunt May. The entire bank/side of the building fight culminates in that moment with the tension ratcheting up the whole way including the fake-out of her falling the first time and the way he webs himself down towards the street and to her was perfectly animated and shot. Plus the score during that scene is fantastic with Spider-Man's theme only poking through Ock's theme here and there until finally and triumphantly soaring in that moment. You'd think Spider-Man catching a person falling would be the most basic and worn-out thing he could possibly do but that part ruled so much.
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Mar 25, 2019 20:56
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Nodosaur posted:I loved Spider-Man 2 for years, but nowadays I can't look past the whole "all of Octopus's evil was enabled by the sentient robot tentacles stuck to his back" thing. He was also in a state of grief over the death of his wife for which he was responsible. That made it easier for the sentient AI lodged in his spine to manipulate him after the inhibitor chip blew out. He was more susceptible to making rash decisions because of his emotional instability.
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Mar 25, 2019 20:58
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teagone posted:He was also in a state of grief over the death of his wife for which he was responsible. That made it easier for the sentient AI lodged in his spine to manipulate him after the inhibitor chip blew out. He was more susceptible to making rash decisions because of his emotional instability. I'm aware of the circumstances. But it just smacks of lazy "technology is inherently evil" writing because there's no reason for the tentacles to default to evil like that in the wake of a tragedy, on top of being a retread of the first movie's "alternate personality pushes Norman into evil" business. The tentacles are, narratively, a part of the Doctor Octopus persona, so they effectively serve the same purpose. The smug and smarmy and confident way he acts after he starts his crime spree comes out of nowhere, also. But in general I don't like the idea of Doctor Octopus as a decent guy who just gets pushed into evil. The character works best as a dark mirror of Peter; they both get their powers in an accident, and where Peter thinks to use it for the sake of personal gain but eventually decides to use it responsibily, Doc Ock is consumed by his rampant ego and sense of superiority for not only vengeance but to use his newfound abilities for personal gain. Making him a sad man whose wife gets fridged so the evil robot arms can make him act like a bad guy invalidates all of that.
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Mar 25, 2019 21:07
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David D. Davidson posted:Okay and rereading that quote and When he referenced Moore, I could tell he never read Tom Strong.
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Mar 25, 2019 21:17
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I think the dark mirror stuff is very much present. The way I always read is that Doc Ock hosed up and got someone he loved (his wife) killed, just like Peter hosed up and got someone he loved (Uncle Ben) killed. The difference is that Peter accepted responsibility for it and became a hero. Ock refuses to take responsibility and becomes a monster. He insists that he couldn't have miscalculated and the tentacles (representing his ego) push him forward, and so the desire to do his experiment again and make it work is to prove that his wife's death was not his fault.
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Mar 25, 2019 21:22
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