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Kung Food posted:Firstly, you need all three. Second: So I was going over the artificer rules and it explicitly states that an artificer uses their tools to cast every spell, which to me reads as "you can use your alchemical tools as a spell focus even for spells that don't have a material component". quote:Tools Required
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Mar 27, 2019 14:30
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This is probably going to sound dumb, but is Booming Blade OP on a rogue? I know cantrip scaling and sneak attack are both substitutes for the scaling on extra attack, and while paladins can dish out a lot of d6s they need to spend spell slots to do it. I love the idea of the combo, especially paired with a Swashbuckler's ability to hit this combo and walk out with no repercussions (gotta love Magic Initiate), but I don't want to end up breaking campaigns in the process.
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Mar 27, 2019 14:47
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Booming blade can do a few more points of damage than Eldritch Blast if you are using a two handed melee weapon (which you can't) and the target moves. So yeah it's kinda powerful but so not unbalanced it will ruin your campaign also it's melee and even if it works well with a mobile class like rogue/swashbuckler and your gm may agree you could "stunlock" some not smart/confused/weaker enemy into a non effective way of fighting. But big things/better fighter will still come after you and smash you which isn't the most pleasing result if you are a rogue.
Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 15:06 on Mar 27, 2019 |
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Mar 27, 2019 14:58
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Being good in combat is basically never going to break the game unless everyone else builds to be very bad. Also, you might consider high elf for that free cantrip instead of spending a feat.
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Mar 27, 2019 14:59
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Nehru the Damaja posted:Being good in combat is basically never going to break the game unless everyone else builds to be very bad. I was about to type more but yeah, this. You'll do some good damage but that's not going to wreck anything for the DM.
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Mar 27, 2019 15:00
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Toplowtech posted:Booming blade can do a few more points of damage than Eldritch Blast if you are using a two handed melee weapon (which you can't) and the target moves. So yeah it's kinda powerful but so unbalanced it will ruin your campaign also it's melee and even if it works well with a mobile class like rogue/swashbuckler and your gm may agree you could "stunlock" some not smart/confused/weaker enemy into a non effective way of fighting. But big things/better fighter will still come after you and smash you which isn't the most pleasing result if you are a rogue. Huh, surprised Eldritch Blast can outdamage a sneak attacked Booming Blade even on the move trigger. Can I see the math on that real quick?
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Mar 27, 2019 15:06
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The Bee posted:Huh, surprised Eldritch Blast can outdamage a sneak attacked Booming Blade even on the move trigger. Can I see the math on that real quick? Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Mar 27, 2019 |
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Mar 27, 2019 15:12
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Take spell sniper on a halfling arcane trickster, whip people with magic while literally hiding behind the tank.
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Mar 27, 2019 15:40
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Proud Rat Mom posted:they are cr 1/8 so in a average fight they would be 2 per party member, and usually more. they could have all focused down the paladin on their initiative, which usually happens when a kobold dashes up and the rest take out their slings Your CR computation is off. With 4 PCs, a medium encounter is 200 XP at first level. 3-6 kobolds in an encounter cost 50 XP each, so the medium encounter would be four PCs versus four kobolds. A PC that hits a kobold should kill it in one shot a majority of the time. The kobolds deal 3-6 damage on a hit, which means it takes between 2 and 4 hits from a kobold to drop a PC. The kobolds will hit more frequently, so it's still a dangerous fight especially if the players just slug it out. For example, if all the kobolds swarm one PC they can probably drop her to 0 hp in a single round. Note that ranged attacks are really drat important at low level. Those slings have a short range, and if you can engage for a round or two outside that short range you'll trivialize the encounter. (For that reason, it's rare to get the opportunity.) Try 4 PCs against two giant lizards to get a feel for the importance of the action economy.
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Mar 27, 2019 16:01
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Verisimilidude posted:So I was going over the artificer rules and it explicitly states that an artificer uses their tools to cast every spell, which to me reads as "you can use your alchemical tools as a spell focus even for spells that don't have a material component". Huh, didn't see that part, but then it says you can use any item you infuse as a focus. Infuse your cross boss and it makes the first part moot. What a dumb mess.
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Mar 27, 2019 16:41
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just so I'm 100% sure of the rules of spellcasting here: my wizard having an arcane focus means I never have to bother with all the material components poo poo when casting, unless a) the spell explicitly consumes that material or b) there is a cost to it (ie. "dust of gems worth 1500g"), right?
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Mar 27, 2019 16:57
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Yes
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Mar 27, 2019 17:02
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The Bee posted:This is probably going to sound dumb, but is Booming Blade OP on a rogue? I know cantrip scaling and sneak attack are both substitutes for the scaling on extra attack, and while paladins can dish out a lot of d6s they need to spend spell slots to do it. I love the idea of the combo, especially paired with a Swashbuckler's ability to hit this combo and walk out with no repercussions (gotta love Magic Initiate), but I don't want to end up breaking campaigns in the process. I am playing pretty much exactly this build but using Mastermind instead of swashbuckler, despite swashbuckler being a much stronger pick for combat. Specifically I went warlock 3/rogue 3 thus far (we started at 5 so that helped). Disguise self at will + cha to attack and damage + medium armor and shields + some more minor warlock bennies tempted me. My character has 8 skill profs, 8 tool profs, and 7 languages, and uses a whip + spell sniper for booming blade-ing with the whip. At level 6, her damage is 1d4 + 4 + 1d8 + 2d6 (+2d8 if they move). Two of the other pcs (4 person party) excel at granting advantage, so I also intend to pick up elven accuracy at level 8 instead of hitting 20 cha, for more crit fishing. Managed to crit it once so far, and the GM is ruling booming blade crits as delayed-critting the damage if they move too, which makes it even more absurd. Managed to make a gruul barbarian think twice after he tried to chase my girl and took a total damage of 61. Could have been stronger by taking a better archetype, but since it's a ravinica campaign, the book advises to keep social and non combat stuff more assumed to be happening. And our game has had entire sessions sans combat multiple times.
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Mar 27, 2019 18:09
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KittyEmpress posted:Managed to crit it once so far, and the GM is ruling booming blade crits as delayed-critting the damage if they move too FWIW, this is not legal RAW and certainly not the intended function.
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Mar 27, 2019 18:15
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Whoa, awesome build! I was gonna go rapier (and probably will need to, if I'm going arcane initiate instead of a caster multiclass), but whip is a very interesting option so I might take some pages from your book instead. I'll likely have to go one level of Wizard as a multiclass, since this all started as me wanting Find Familiar for a little malleable pet to give my Simic, but hopefully a one level dip is worth it compared to burning two ASIs on the build.
The Bee fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Mar 27, 2019 |
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Mar 27, 2019 18:32
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The Bee posted:Whoa, awesome build! I was gonna go rapier (and probably will need to, if I'm going arcane initiate instead of a caster multiclass), but whip is a very interesting option so I might take some pages from your book instead. I'll likely have to go one level of Wizard as a multiclass, since this all started as me wanting Find Familiar for a little malleable pet to give my Simic, but now I can consider what field of magic my character studied before being made into a Hybrid. Be aware that whip only works with Spell Sniper so you're getting deep into feats at the expense of your stats, at that point.
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Mar 27, 2019 18:37
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Toshimo posted:Be aware that whip only works with Spell Sniper so you're getting deep into feats at the expense of your stats, at that point. That's why I'm considering the 1 level dip in wizard instead of magic initiate. I figure a 1 level delay is preferable to two feats burned on one idea.
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Mar 27, 2019 18:45
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The Bee posted:That's why I'm considering the 1 level dip in wizard instead of magic initiate. I figure a 1 level delay is preferable to two feats burned on one idea. I mean... This really sounds like you just want to be an Arcane Trickster.
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Mar 27, 2019 18:50
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Toshimo posted:I mean... This really sounds like you just want to be an Arcane Trickster. You may have a good point. I wanted Scout or Swashbuckler for their free movement features, initiative bonuses, and ease of Sneak Attacking, but the whip kinda does make those less necessary. Spellthief at level 17 also fits the adaptation theme of the Simic really nicely, too. I was thinking more dabbling in spells rather than focusing on them, but if I grab a conjuration and transmutation style spells on the levels where they are available this could actually fit really nicely. Thank you! The Bee fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Mar 27, 2019 |
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Mar 27, 2019 18:58
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The Bee posted:Whoa, awesome build! I was gonna go rapier (and probably will need to, if I'm going arcane initiate instead of a caster multiclass), but whip is a very interesting option so I might take some pages from your book instead. I'll likely have to go one level of Wizard as a multiclass, since this all started as me wanting Find Familiar for a little malleable pet to give my Simic, but hopefully a one level dip is worth it compared to burning two ASIs on the build.
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Mar 27, 2019 19:01
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Toshimo posted:FWIW, this is not legal RAW and certainly not the intended function. Googling it right now, theres been no official ruling on it (or green flame), the only ruling on secondary damage that has been made was on the spider's poison damage, which was ruled as separate from the attack, since it has it's own save. That said, it was something the DM actively chose, and not something I convinced him on.
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Mar 27, 2019 19:05
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The Bee posted:This is probably going to sound dumb, but is Booming Blade OP on a rogue? I know cantrip scaling and sneak attack are both substitutes for the scaling on extra attack, and while paladins can dish out a lot of d6s they need to spend spell slots to do it. I love the idea of the combo, especially paired with a Swashbuckler's ability to hit this combo and walk out with no repercussions (gotta love Magic Initiate), but I don't want to end up breaking campaigns in the process. Booming Blade is the only thing that mechanically justifies doing melee on a rogue, since ranged combat is much better for numerous reasons. Rogues are rather underpowered and can't break campaigns on their own merits. The Bee posted:You may have a good point. I wanted Scout or Swashbuckler for their free movement features, initiative bonuses, and ease of Sneak Attacking, but the whip kinda does make those less necessary. Spellthief at level 17 also fits the adaptation theme of the Simic really nicely, too. I was thinking more dabbling in spells rather than focusing on them, but if I grab a conjuration and transmutation style spells on the levels where they are available this could actually fit really nicely. Both Swash+MI and AT+Mobile or Spell Sniper work ok for melee rogue. I wouldn't plan your build around a level 17 ability, though, and keep in mind that if the best you can manage is mediocre DCs for your spells, then it's better to just dump INT and take no-save abilities.
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Mar 27, 2019 20:42
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Nah, I'm not planning my build around level 17. I just appreciate the fluff synergy with my race choice. I figure a whip, a hand crossbow, a climb speed, and some grappling appendages will at least be a unique and interesting fighting style, even if it might not set the world on fire optimization-wise. Booming Blade will just be a nice bit of extra pain to rain down from my perch. Thank you guys a bunch for the advice so far!
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Mar 27, 2019 21:16
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If a player polymorphed an ogre into a snail(or any small bug), then another player swallowed the snail whole, what would happen? My interpretation is that as soon as the ogre/snail takes damage, it reverts to its normal form. So as soon as it hits the stomach acid, a full size ogre would appear within the player's stomach and basically kill him instantly ? Is there something I'm missing?
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Mar 27, 2019 22:23
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Pussy Quipped posted:If a player polymorphed an ogre into a snail(or any small bug), then another player swallowed the snail whole, what would happen? I mean that’s how I’d play it.
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Mar 27, 2019 22:31
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Pussy Quipped posted:If a player polymorphed an ogre into a snail(or any small bug), then another player swallowed the snail whole, what would happen? Chest-bursting the swallower would make given the rules, but I can see why a DM would want to avoid setting that precedence, since it's a messy can of worms to open. You could also rule that the swallowed creature fails to expand and suffers lethal existential failure, which fits the intent of the spell that the victim is basically completely at your mercy. A polymorphed creature should be as good as dead anyways, and bringing its HP to zero is basically a formality, so I think this is also a reasonable interpretation that still lets the player feel like they've done something clever.
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Mar 27, 2019 22:35
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It fuses them into a hybrid of the two creatures - why did you play god???
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Mar 27, 2019 22:39
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:It fuses them into a hybrid of the two creatures - why did you play god??? This is the right answer; Jeff Goldblum that poo poo.
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Mar 27, 2019 22:40
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lightrook posted:Chest-bursting the swallower would make given the rules, but I can see why a DM would want to avoid setting that precedence, since it's a messy can of worms to open. You could also rule that the swallowed creature fails to expand and suffers lethal existential failure, which fits the intent of the spell that the victim is basically completely at your mercy. A polymorphed creature should be as good as dead anyways, and bringing its HP to zero is basically a formality, so I think this is also a reasonable interpretation that still lets the player feel like they've done something clever. I think it's more of a clever way to instantly and stealthily kill the swallower, not the polymorphed creature. Like kill the evil emperor by hiding an ogre in his trail mix sorta thing.
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Mar 27, 2019 22:49
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Pussy Quipped posted:If a player polymorphed an ogre into a snail(or any small bug), then another player swallowed the snail whole, what would happen? Can I also damage the ogre by puking on it? I kid, I kid. This is something that you probably want to discuss with the group before you set a precedent. Figure out what everyone's intent is for the spell and how that affects the game. Be wary of setting up "clever" instant win effects that they're going to try to use again and again and again. Not saying "don't do it", but... be aware of how some groups will laser focus on a successful spell use or combo to the point where you're spending half your time countering that one thing.
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Mar 27, 2019 22:59
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I think it'd be pretty valid to make a game around getting cheap "instant wins", and pretty valid to make a game around normal balanced-encounter grid combat, but mixing them is perilous since there will be friction between people who want the latter and get the former and feel cheated, and people who want the former and get shut down. (5e is obviously geared towards the latter.) It's part of setting expectations for your game.
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Mar 27, 2019 23:07
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Telefragging typically doesn't work RAW. While the polymorph spells doesn't specifically bar this, the Enlarge spell does specifically state that the target stops growing if it can't fit anymore (hence, no sticking somebody in a small cage and then turning them into play-doh). It wouldn't be much of a stretch for the DM to say that it also doesn't work for polymorph..
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Mar 27, 2019 23:07
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Pussy Quipped posted:If a player polymorphed an ogre into a snail(or any small bug), then another player swallowed the snail whole, what would happen? There's no reason to rule that it's an instant change, in my opinion. The effects clearly indicate that the snail should revert to form once it starts being digested (which might take a little bit), but I'd be more likely to rule that the player should roll a Con save to see whether they vomit it out before it bursts through their stomach. Either way, I'd say the player should take some damage based on the size difference but not be instantly killed. Congrats, your players invented a fun method of poisoning someone. Kaal fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Mar 27, 2019 |
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Mar 27, 2019 23:35
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lightrook posted:Chest-bursting the swallower would make given the rules, but I can see why a DM would want to avoid setting that precedence, since it's a messy can of worms to open. You could also rule that the swallowed creature fails to expand and suffers lethal existential failure, which fits the intent of the spell that the victim is basically completely at your mercy. A polymorphed creature should be as good as dead anyways, and bringing its HP to zero is basically a formality, so I think this is also a reasonable interpretation that still lets the player feel like they've done something clever. You do realize that a polymorphed creature reduced to 0 hp reverts to whatever its hp happened to be pre-polymorph, right? Bringing a polymorphed creature to 0 hp is the worst way to keep it at your mercy.
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Mar 28, 2019 00:09
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In one of the Next packets, I realised that you could True Polymorph a giant rock - hell, a mountain! - into a fly (that you control), fly it above your target, then end the spell for a Wile E Coyote-style finisher.
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Mar 28, 2019 07:59
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Narsham posted:You do realize that a polymorphed creature reduced to 0 hp reverts to whatever its hp happened to be pre-polymorph, right? Bringing a polymorphed creature to 0 hp is the worst way to keep it at your mercy. If the party made it to the end of a fight with an enemy still polymorphed, I'd expect them to have some kind of plan to whack the guy once polymorph breaks, or lock it in a sealed, weighted box and toss it into a deep body of water, or something like that. Excess damage carries over too, apparently, so it's not even a bad way of safely getting off an alpha strike on the target. At best, an isolated enemy might get off one round before getting dogpiled by the party, but it should really be a done deal by then.
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Mar 28, 2019 08:36
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It's worth noting that the spell does not specify the force at which at the snail reverts to it's original form, only it's speed. Is it not equally likely the magic would kill the ogre instead?
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Mar 28, 2019 16:50
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I'm actually a little shocked there aren't size restrictions on how much the target can grow or shrink because similar spells only let you go up or down two size classes at most. Would seem like the first step to curtail that sort of fuckary. I think if I had to DM this scenario I would probably pull a "Will he won't he" style gag where the victim is constantly almost eating it but puts it down last second because of a string of increasingly unlikely distractions.
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Mar 28, 2019 17:15
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Is there a DM screen worth using?
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Mar 28, 2019 17:17
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Mendrian posted:It's worth noting that the spell does not specify the force at which at the snail reverts to it's original form, only it's speed. Is it not equally likely the magic would kill the ogre instead? https://youtu.be/9yHIsQhVxGM It is involuntary and harmless for everyone involved. Well, physically harmless.
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Mar 28, 2019 17:33
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