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Social Animal posted:I actually bought that game on steam for pennies when it was on sale. I heard it was an old genesis roguelike so figured why not. Is it worth playing? I don’t think I even bothered installing it. It's worth a bash yes, especially if you're feeling like a bit of relaxing nostalgia. Just sit down with a nice cold drink and see if you can finish it in one go. One thing to be wary of is that rings in that game can be worn for one effect, but a lot of them are meant to be thrown at enemies. I think that's communicated in the manual but it caught me out a bit. Ganty fucked around with this message at 14:27 on Mar 26, 2019 |
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Mar 26, 2019 14:18
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90s Cringe Rock posted:There should be a roguelike where you can use a zorb. I’m envisioning a pinball/Metal Walker/Fire Striker roguelike. I guess the closest thing is Tumbleseed. You can power up your seed to make thorn based attacks on things you tumble into.
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Mar 27, 2019 00:43
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on the one hand I should stop ragging on Immortal Redneck for this stupid loving scroll system on the other, I just started a run into the second pyramid with a scroll I've never seen before! "your crosshairs disappear"
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Mar 27, 2019 01:06
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Pulcinella posted:I’m envisioning a pinball/Metal Walker/Fire Striker roguelike. I guess the closest thing is Tumbleseed. You can power up your seed to make thorn based attacks on things you tumble into. A correctly implemented Pinball roguelike is going to sell 100k copies
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Mar 27, 2019 03:27
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I've only just started messing about with it but Zorbus has a good interface, good feedback on why things happen, and easily fully customizable controls, so I'm in favor of how this is looking so far. also, I'm big into this sentence 
LazyMaybe fucked around with this message at 05:54 on Mar 27, 2019 |
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Mar 27, 2019 05:51
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Zorbus looks good and simple enough that I'll probably enjoy it, and no hunger and ID'ing is always a plus in my book, I've never enjoyed those mechanics. There's a post over on Reddit about it, dev seems active also, so if you have suggestions or issues you might want to pop on there and let him know.
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Mar 27, 2019 06:13
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ExiledTinkerer posted:A hopeful newcomer manifests in Zorbus http://www.zorbus.net/ Win But how large a role do races play in this?
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Mar 27, 2019 11:44
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It's hard to say because there's only 3 at the moment.They alter starting skills(which you also get with point buy) and nothing else.
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Mar 27, 2019 18:19
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That's promising!
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Mar 27, 2019 18:40
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worth noting that atm the game doesn't have autorest, but it's coming in the next update.
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Mar 27, 2019 18:41
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How does the lack of autoexplore feel? If the level design is tight/fast-paced enough I could see it being unnecessary, but listing it as a primary design feature makes me worry it's being cut on the basis of "real gamers want every input to be a meaningful decision  " like I occasionally see from the types who think accessing your inventory should take no less than a dozen key presses.
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Mar 27, 2019 19:54
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I think wanting every keystroke to be meaningful is an argument *for* auto-explore and an inventory that works with few keypresses. That's the whole point - if how I explore is mostly meaningless, an autoexplore button means I take the single action that is meaningful, "explore", and not false ones like "Do I go down or left first?".
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Mar 27, 2019 19:59
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What do y'all think is needed for a game to have meaningful but not tedious exploration?
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Mar 27, 2019 20:57
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:What do y'all think is needed for a game to have meaningful but not tedious exploration? Whatever unexplored is doing.
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Mar 27, 2019 21:01
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Harminoff posted:Whatever unexplored is doing. Which is mostly about having less random. I think that's the key in random dungeons: reducing the amount of random so you don't end up with perlin soup but have sufficient random for variety. The Unexplored dev accomplishes that in a fairly complicated way (he has a deep CS background), but I think it's not a significant improvement over the Spelunky/Dead Cells/Daggerfall method when you have enough templates. He talks about loops a lot and I think that is a big difference. Too many ways to generate dungeons end up as trees (a central path with dead end branches), but loops in a dungeon that split and reform feel more purposeful. He can also seed his dungeons with way more puzzles because of the layout tools. Even simple puzzles do a lot for making a dungeon feel more interesting to explore.
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Mar 27, 2019 21:41
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:What do y'all think is needed for a game to have meaningful but not tedious exploration? - A pretty tight hunger mechanic that makes every turn count, like Brogue or Sil or FTL. - No resting mechanic, so resources are difficult to replenish and even chaff fights are important, like Tangledeep. (Or action-based roguelites like Binding of Isaac, obviously.) - Along those lines, something like Desktop Dungeons' system of making exploration be your resting mechanic, so that exploration necessarily exhausts an important resource. - Something like DoomRL's system of letting you hear monsters move around and punishing you for being caught out in the open.
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Mar 27, 2019 22:10
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That game where revealing tiles was your only source of healing was pretty good for that - you certainly thought before you took a step off the map. Mid-combat exploration is meaningful, so if monsters try and coerce you into running into the black it'd be something. Mostly I just don't want to graph search manually when there's no time pressure or obvious ways to differentiate which direction I'm going. I coded up graph algorithms in college and I could do it again, why should I do it by hand over and over when the choice is meaningless?
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Mar 27, 2019 22:12
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Happylisk posted:I really wish Incursion wasn't such a bugfest. A polished and finished version of that game would be a real gem. wandering away from the topic of dnd implementation a bit Incursion has the most 'alive' feeling dungeon and monsters of any roguelike I've played, because of the really visually distinctive and mechanically impactful dungeon biomes and because most monsters will run away rather than fight you to the death (in a way that feels much more self preserving than the mechanic in Angband) and will infight hostile monsters much more actively than Qud where they hyperfocus you... and it's pretty much ruined other dungeon crawling rls for me as a result. Haven't had much issue with bugs though just clunky controls/ui and it being incredibly lethal.
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Mar 27, 2019 23:11
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Big Mad Drongo posted:How does the lack of autoexplore feel? If the level design is tight/fast-paced enough I could see it being unnecessary, but listing it as a primary design feature makes me worry it's being cut on the basis of "real gamers want every input to be a meaningful decision
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Mar 27, 2019 23:14
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Actually, Cogmind is another example of a traditional roguelike with very good exploration. Part of this is because of the alert system, which is a Sil-like hunger mechanic - the longer you hang around and the more stuff you kill, the nastier the enemies get. And part of it is the constant equipment destruction, which means no fight is safe or trivial and no item is always useless. But what really makes it good is that exploration has lots of interesting strategic choices available, rather than the usual pair of "explore blindly" or "take the stairs". There's no experience gain from killing enemies, so you're not forced to stick around on a level any longer than you want to, but there's generally a lot of good stuff if you know where to go. And there are items you can equip that help you with that - there's one that lets you see other robots through walls, there's one that tells you where all the loot pinata enemies are, and so on and so forth. Or you could use those equipment slots for other vitally important things, like inventory capacity or targeting systems or heat sinks. And there are terminals you can hack which will, among other things, give you map information. Or you could join up with Zion in the early levels and use them all to summon an army of robot murder-buddies instead, which is not as much of a no-brainer as it may sound since that sends the alert system into overdrive. And there are multiple exits to most levels, going to different places in the complex - do you take one at random, or do you try and find out which one goes where? I suck at Cogmind so badly, and yet I love its ideas so much...
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Mar 27, 2019 23:39
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Ignoring the impressive level generation, Unexplored's biggest strength is how scarcity pushes your exploration. Every room contains something that will help you out if you're smart enough to use it, most of those helpful things are consumables (of which you are likely to find a half-dozen or less of a given type in a playthrough,) and there's just enough redundancy with crafting, utility items, copying scrolls, and wands that you're never really at the mercy of RNG. I want to find every puzzle room because it might contain the last life potion I'll ever see.
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Mar 28, 2019 00:46
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As someone who hasn't played a traditional roguelike in a decade, what is autoexplore?
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Mar 28, 2019 01:08
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ItBreathes posted:As someone who hasn't played a traditional roguelike in a decade, what is autoexplore? So Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup: press shift-o and your character will automatically run around the dungeon, picking up stuff on auto-pickup list, and stopping when something “interesting” shows up, like enemies or artifacts. Speaking of DCSS and making exploration meaningful, DCSS is on both sides of the issue. Ignoring the obvious half, sounds made by you and also monsters that spot you can do a lot to punish you for recklessly pushing ahead. On a new floor the -cost- of exploration is pretty trivial, but the -how- can be somewhat tactical occasionally. And though inspired by yet not an RL puzzle game Desktop Dungeons turns exploration itself into a resource. LordSloth fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Mar 28, 2019 |
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Mar 28, 2019 01:19
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ItBreathes posted:As someone who hasn't played a traditional roguelike in a decade, what is autoexplore? you hit button and an algorithm makes your character semi-efficiently move about revealing tiles until something flagged as important shows up
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Mar 28, 2019 01:20
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So it's borg-ing with a stop condition? Whatever happened to roguelikes being about suffering?
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Mar 28, 2019 01:49
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ItBreathes posted:So it's borg-ing with a stop condition? auto-explore is a mechanism to bring you to the suffering faster
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Mar 28, 2019 01:51
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ItBreathes posted:So it's borg-ing with a stop condition? Autoexplore skips all the boring stuff like rooms full of treasure and fast-forwards straight to the out-of-depth rare who casts Sunder Mind for 80% of your health as its first action.
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Mar 28, 2019 02:50
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ItBreathes posted:So it's borg-ing with a stop condition? Personally I would rather not have the "suffering" be in the form of real-world carpal-tunnel syndrome
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Mar 28, 2019 05:23
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In its defense while I could play without auto-explore again I would never play an online rogue like without auto-explore again
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Mar 28, 2019 07:55
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The Ground Gives Way renders most things moot with v2.5, as per usual: http://www.thegroundgivesway.com/the-ground-gives-way-v2-5-is-out/ Just imagine your own changelog, presuming a streak of optimism, as odds are the giant actual one will more or less suffice for it~
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Mar 28, 2019 13:59
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Now I'm wondering about a roguelike where you have full map details (including items and monsters and so on) all the time, so there is no "exploration" in the sense of discovering what's out there; there's instead exploration in the sense of deciding where to go and what path to use to get there. Probably the reason I'm thinking about this is because my formative roguelike was Angband. Angband is a game where autoexplore will get you killed sooner or later; you're supposed to be routinely stopping to use detection magic or ESP, so you can tell when some nasty monster has woken up and started hunting you. If you just blunder along blindly, then by the time they enter LOS you'll have already lost the fight by being in unfavorable terrain or in an area with too many other monsters (where "too many" is often just 1 additional monster). Sometimes it's "lost the fight" because the monster can one-shot you so you don't dare spend any turns with it in LOS. I like the tension Angband has of needing to not just avoid fights, but avoid ever even letting certain monsters see you, but I have trouble thinking of ways that that could be implemented that don't require manual exploration of levels.
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Mar 28, 2019 15:08
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remember risk of rain? the sequel is out in early access now, buy one get one until the 30th. https://store.steampowered.com/app/632360/Risk_of_Rain_2/
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Mar 28, 2019 18:15
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Now I'm wondering about a roguelike where you have full map details (including items and monsters and so on) all the time, so there is no "exploration" in the sense of discovering what's out there; there's instead exploration in the sense of deciding where to go and what path to use to get there. Slay the Spire does this, and pathing is one of the most interesting and relevant decisions you make in that game.
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Mar 28, 2019 18:49
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Johnny Joestar posted:remember risk of rain? the sequel is out in early access now, buy one get one until the 30th. I am amazed at how much this feels like Risk of Rain 1 despite the whole extra dimension. Only had time to go at it for an hour so far, but I am enjoying it a lot, and it's another great soundtrack from Chris Christodoulou. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRylDICoT1E
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Mar 28, 2019 19:46
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Oh hell yes. I loved Risk of Rain and that looks very good.
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Mar 28, 2019 20:28
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I only played the first for a few hours before I was bored of it. This trailer showed off multiplayer though so I think I might jump on it. I don’t remember being able to find someone for coop in the first game so hopefully it should be easier for the sequel.
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Mar 28, 2019 22:46
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andrew smash posted:Oh hell yes. I loved Risk of Rain and that looks very good. Yeah the first game was so good I broke my early access rules and threw down for this immediately
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Mar 28, 2019 23:59
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Risk of Rain never clicked for me. The combat was horrendously sloggy, there's a huge number of items that mostly don't seem that useful, and I found the global time limit to be stressful. All of the positive reviews I've read basically say "it gets good once you get some unlocks and the ability to choose the items you get" but I never got that far. It's a shame; the game looks cool as hell and I really like a lot of action roguelites. Just...not this one. 
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Mar 29, 2019 00:16
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I think this one feels a lot better than the first because your movement is better and you don't get locked in place with your special abilities. I disliked the first one because it had the timer to incentivize going quickly but then you felt so fuckin slow. especially with the tiny player sprite on the huge screen this one you feel pretty mobile, sprinting and using movement abilities more freely and you don't get stuck whenever you do things like eg: commando's multishot. pretty bonkers run earlier:  I think I could have kept this one up indefinitely if I was more careful.
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Mar 29, 2019 00:43
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:the ability to choose the items you get What Well I just googled that and now I'm upset but anyway, I loved RoR despite never getting that one
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Mar 29, 2019 00:48
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