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fishmech posted:It's already transparent here, considering the tax rates vary quite a bit. Neither can america
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Mar 29, 2019 23:33
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MiddleOne posted:Just lol that you're even trying to defend the American system when there already is a hands-down simpler, better and more transparent system for everyone involved. Being fair the US taxes are generally about half or less.
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Mar 29, 2019 23:33
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Private Speech posted:Being fair the US taxes are generally about half or less. Has literally nothing to do with anything being discussed.
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Mar 29, 2019 23:36
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Andrast posted:Neither can america I assure you, we do all use the US Dollar. But of course the sales tax rates are different, they are meant for state/local use and as such are decided on those levels. Private Speech posted:Being fair the US taxes are generally about half or less. Yeah the average US sales tax rate works out to about 6.3% as of this year (since unfortunately conservative governments like to raise them instead of taxes that hit the wealthy so some states have really been pushing em up). And jeez some countries really insist on pushing that up to 20% or more, it's crazy.
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Mar 29, 2019 23:41
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fishmech posted:I assure you, we do all use the US Dollar. But of course the sales tax rates are different, they are meant for state/local use and as such are decided on those levels. I don't think Canada and Mexico use the US dollar
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Mar 29, 2019 23:42
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Andrast posted:I don't think Canada and Mexico use the US dollar And? Who claimed they were?
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Mar 29, 2019 23:46
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fishmech posted:And? Who claimed they were? Well you were talking about using the same currency and tax rates across the continent
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Mar 29, 2019 23:48
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MiddleOne posted:Has literally nothing to do with anything being discussed. It does as far as US/EU sales tax/VAT is concerned, the income taxes are a lot more similar. Anyway VAT is more comprehensive and I do agree that it's good that you can see it beforehand. And there's quite a lot of exemptions too, it's a relatively complex system that's managed by the EU commission (which is what the EU executive arm is called).
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Mar 29, 2019 23:55
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Andrast posted:Well you were talking about using the same currency and tax rates across the continent As specifically a stupid thing to expect (since obviously many countries aren't even in the EU, let alone the EU not being willing to set truly common tax policy).
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Mar 29, 2019 23:57
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How is it too difficult for the store to print gross prices
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Mar 30, 2019 00:16
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Orange Devil posted:Denmark legit seems like the most far right country in the EU outside of like, Hungary and maybe Poland? And it flies completely under the radar or is even used as a shining example, like with your insane laws to punish certain people (it's brown people) harsher for the same crime. I don't know, do Hungary and Poland unironically use the word "ghetto" in legislation and legally define them as low-income areas with "non-western" majorities?
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Mar 30, 2019 00:21
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e: whoops I read your post the other way around and was about to post about Danish ghetto laws, anyway they don't I think they do but you do get your sexist and chauvinistic proclamations from their respective governing parties that would not have passed through the Danish public decorum filter probably. Here's some details about Danish ghettos regardless, for other posters: quote:Denmark is the only western democracy to mark out official “ghettos” – the word is virtually identical in Danish to English, with similar connotations – where residents are subject to different rules from the rest of the country, simply by dint of their address. The first “ghetto lists” were drawn up nearly a decade ago. But in recent months the government has pushed through policies that demand far more extreme intervention in their residents’ lives. Private Speech fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Mar 30, 2019 |
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Mar 30, 2019 00:43
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Lord Stimperor posted:How is it too difficult for the store to print gross prices If you do that it no longer matches your advertising, which has to cross tax jurisdiction boundaries almost always. As such, it doesn't get done except for products you either are legally barred from advertising price on outside store premises (eg tobacco products, alcohol) or which price advertising is effectively impossible for (fuels, for example, since the price usually varies daily). And not having the shelf price match the advertised price usually puts you in violation of advertising laws. Which is as it should be.
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Mar 30, 2019 01:15
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Private Speech posted:e: whoops I read your post the other way around and was about to post about Danish ghetto laws, anyway they don't I think they do but you do get your sexist and chauvinistic proclamations from their respective governing parties that would not have passed through the Danish public decorum filter probably. The ethnicity qualifier wasn't passed into law until 2017, though. If a low-income area doesn't have "non-western" majority it isn't legally a "ghetto" anymore and won't be subject to the same restrictions/penalties. They're also spending residents' renovation funds to tear down their homes. I don't know what you mean by decorum filter, the Integration Minister can (and did) openly say "I can clearly state that we don't want any more Africans in Denmark" without anyone batting an eye. Had she used a slur the resulting debate would simply conclude that it's just a word and this is no place for uppityness.
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Mar 30, 2019 02:54
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fishmech posted:If you do that it no longer matches your advertising, which has to cross tax jurisdiction boundaries almost always. As such, it doesn't get done except for products you either are legally barred from advertising price on outside store premises (eg tobacco products, alcohol) or which price advertising is effectively impossible for (fuels, for example, since the price usually varies daily). They could also advertise with the tax included, because, you know, that is the price you actually pay. The American system of applying tax at the till is one of the most bullshit ways of tricking customers and should not exist in any form, anywhere. Nearly everywhere else in the world manages to advertise their goods with tax included. To imply otherwise is dense.
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Mar 30, 2019 03:32
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painted into a coroner posted:They could also advertise with the tax included, because, you know, that is the price you actually pay. The American system of applying tax at the till is one of the most bullshit ways of tricking customers and should not exist in any form, anywhere. they literally just explained, in the post you quoted, why it's incredibly hard if not impossible to advertise with tax included. No one in the US is "tricked" by 'stealth" taxes. yall are being ridiculous, poor people are not idiots they can remember things from day to day
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Mar 30, 2019 04:06
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honestly it seems as though a more reasonable practice would be to air different ads in different taxation zones i'm confident that if your business is running in several states, you can afford to change a couple of numbers for the occasion
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Mar 30, 2019 04:19
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painted into a coroner posted:They could also advertise with the tax included, because, you know, that is the price you actually pay. The American system of applying tax at the till is one of the most bullshit ways of tricking customers and should not exist in any form, anywhere. Really? How are you going to make an ad that covers all the areas? Also it's really funny how you think it's a "trick". Most other places that include tax in the price also have uniform or near uniform tax, which you know is not what's here. V. Illych L. posted:honestly it seems as though a more reasonable practice would be to air different ads in different taxation zones Most metropolitan areas cross state lines, also as repeatedly mentioned the taxes also vary within states. Like if you broadcast a TV ad in almost any major metropolitan area, on any single channel, you will be reaching people in multiple tax zones, sometimes up to dozens based on the particular area in question. And that's just for local ads when many campaigns are national. Air a radio ad and it can easily be even worse because that goes farther. And god, internet advertising would be a real clusterfuck, even though you might think it'd be easy to only grab the "right" areas. Go back a page or so to when I posted a picture of businesses advertising half-rate sales tax - those are areas within towns that have a differing sales tax rate from the state one. One of them is a town that you can straight up walk across in 90 minutes it's so small, but it's still got different sales tax regimes.
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Mar 30, 2019 05:06
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Senor Dog posted:they literally just explained, in the post you quoted, why it's incredibly hard if not impossible to advertise with tax included. No one in the US is "tricked" by 'stealth" taxes. yall are being ridiculous, poor people are not idiots they can remember things from day to day That's legitimately not remotely an excuse for anything. Again, businesses literally everywhere else in the world somehow manage to display the price with tax on advertising, in store, and at the till. If it was seriously that hard the entire world would use the US system. It doesn't. I'm speaking as someone who has lived in Europe and in NA (Canada). The system there is beyond stupid and it is a dishonest trick. This is not me saying "poor people are idiots", this is me saying that it's a trick of psychology used by business to prey on consumers. Its the exact same reason why pricing items at $4.99 rather than $5 is dishonest. But honestly, that's not a big issue. The real fact of the matter is it is so inconvenient to the consumer to not include the full price on advertising and on the shelves. If I see something in a leaflet for €5 I know I can walk into the store with a note in hand and walk out with the item. In Canada, I could not do this. If I wanted to find out what the true cost was I needed to pull out a calculator and do some math. At worst it leaves a consumer with so much apathy over their purchasing control that they stop caring about anything they buy and at best it does nothing but hold up purchasing at tills with cash because you cannot have your exact change ready unless you decided to do math in-store. I also think that leaving out tax on items is an attempt by businesses to instil a thought process in consumers of "look how much less you would have to pay if Big Government didn't weigh us all down with these drat taxes!" I saw some attempts at that here (Ireland) with posters by fuel tanks reading "don't blame us for rising fuel costs! Look how much tax is applied!" Just put the drat tax on advertising.
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Mar 30, 2019 05:16
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painted into a coroner posted:That's legitimately not remotely an excuse for anything. Again, businesses literally everywhere else in the world somehow manage to display the price with tax on advertising, in store, and at the till. If it was seriously that hard the entire world would use the US system. It doesn't. So it's really not getting through to you, then. Most other places that include the tax in the price at all times, have an equal tax rate across the country in question, or if there are exceptions they affect tiny areas within otherwise uniform tax jurisidictions. In the US you can take a 1 hour train ride through the right areas and hit 6 separate sales tax regimes easily. painted into a coroner posted:at best it does nothing but hold up purchasing at tills with cash because you cannot have your exact change ready unless you decided to do math in-store. Whatever weird mental compulsion you have to pay with exact change, please understand that most people don't have it. The only places you are expected to have exact change are the shittier vending machines, and public transit/toll equipment that still takes cash as a legacy measure. And none of those situations involve extra taxation. painted into a coroner posted:
Ok, please explain, for the purposes of this assignment, how you would make such an ad for the Philadelphia media market. Your TV or radio purchase will be received by residents of zones: 0% rate (in Delaware), 6% in Maryland, 6.625% in New Jersey (outside Urban Enterprise Zones which are 3.3125%, and Atlantic City which may impose a 6% additional tax on certain goods and services), 6% in Pennslyvania around it but 8% for Philadelphia specifically. fishmech fucked around with this message at 05:28 on Mar 30, 2019 |
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Mar 30, 2019 05:22
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fishmech posted:So it's really not getting through to you, then. Seriously stop acting like the USA is the only place in the world where tax brackets differ and that it is the only place you can find metropolitan areas that cross boundaries. I've grown up on a border my entire life and there has never been an issue with companies using different advertising or even coaliting difference in price across the same advertisement. The American system is purposefully complex and anti-consumer. It doesn't even have anything to do with having exact change, it's knowing what I have to have out before I go to the till or when I'm in line. I've worked retail and getting people through as quickly as possible is the most important thing. You cannot do that when someone doesn't even look at their wallet until the price comes up because they have no clue if they have to break a 50 or if it all comes under 20, oh but wait I might have the change here just one second... I'm not saying adding tax would stop that. I know it doesn't stop it because I've worked retail in both Europe and North America. I know it was a hell of a lot easier in Europe though.
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Mar 30, 2019 05:35
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Yeah, and why are people not being told what their income will be after taxes when they get hired, huh? If you can't deal with things being different in different countries in ways that take about ten minutes to adjust to, then you should stay home, simple as that.
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Mar 30, 2019 05:42
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painted into a coroner posted:Seriously stop acting like the USA is the only place in the world where tax brackets differ and that it is the only place you can find metropolitan areas that cross boundaries. I've grown up on a border my entire life and there has never been an issue with companies using different advertising or even coaliting difference in price across the same advertisement. The American system is purposefully complex and anti-consumer. Yeah what you aren't getting is that international borders are something of a one and done thing. Not all that much cross border advertising for basic goods. Listing different currencies and complying with local law tends to hinder that. Just get it through you thick skull already. It would be extremely difficult to advertise all the prices for jurisdictional reasons.
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Mar 30, 2019 05:45
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screamin and creamin posted:Yeah, and why are people not being told what their income will be after taxes when they get hired, huh? I agree, let's not try and make things easier for people. Jesus Christ, it's annoying, it's stupid, it wastes time. It's not the end of the world and if you seriously think that it's a hill I'm dying on idk what to tell you. I lived in Canada for two years and I plan to be back. It's a bad system but that doesn't mean that me, or anyone, is going to lock myself out of a nation because I don't like how they advertise tax.
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Mar 30, 2019 05:48
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Just FYI, fishmech never gives up. Move on.
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Mar 30, 2019 08:38
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screamin and creamin posted:If you can't deal with things being different in different countries in ways that take about ten minutes to adjust to, then you should stay home, simple as that. This was meant as a response to the children in the Danish concentration camps, right
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Mar 30, 2019 09:20
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I feel at home in the EU thread now that the US has sent a huge idiot as it’s ambassador.
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Mar 30, 2019 09:36
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Orange Devil posted:I feel at home in the EU thread now that the US has sent a huge idiot as it’s ambassador. You have to be specific, you could be referring to multiple people.
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Mar 30, 2019 10:00
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Orange Devil posted:I feel at home in the EU thread now that the US has sent a huge idiot as it’s ambassador. just pm me next time
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Mar 30, 2019 10:18
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Osmosisch posted:Just FYI, fishmech never gives up. Move on.
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Mar 30, 2019 10:19
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Not true. I have seen fishmech concede the point more than once. Two times?
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Mar 30, 2019 11:37
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Re:FVD https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-ac...-loep~b425e97f/ It's I think important to realize that it's way less fanatically anti-islam than PVV was, which I think represents possibly a new phase in the development of protofascism in the EU. The PVV I think had most in common with a sort of lite-Strasserism, appealing to a base of workers and offering them (the illusion of) some protection at the expense of a typical scapegoat group. FVD is best characterized as a 4chan nerd party with a tendency towards performative machismo (more roads, climate denialism etc), and is closer to Trumpism than traditional European petit-fascism that the PVV is an expression of. It's more like a combination of VVD-like voting patterns and issues without the trappings of liberalism and without the focus on the white working class that characterizes the PVV. It's worrying because PVV and FVD appeal to different bases and while I think they'd be harmless to the current system, and easily isolated on their own, they'd become dangerous if they manage to form a coalition together somehow since they'd combine two large right wing bases. Especially if you also throw in SGP for good measure. Shibawanko fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Mar 30, 2019 |
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Mar 30, 2019 21:12
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screamin and creamin posted:Yeah, and why are people not being told what their income will be after taxes when they get hired, huh? american_exceptionalism.txt
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Mar 31, 2019 04:31
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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screamin and creamin posted:Yeah, and why are people not being told what their income will be after taxes when they get hired, huh? yeah if you cant adjust to dying due to no health insurance then dont come !!
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Mar 31, 2019 06:57
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suck my woke dick posted:american_exceptionalism.txt Celexi posted:yeah if you cant adjust to dying due to no health insurance then dont come !! You're projecting a whole lot of unrelated bullshit on something that amounts to a minor cultural difference, which is something that exists between every pair of countries. You would probably gladly eat cow patties in a country you deem superior, but since this is AmeriKKKa we're talking about, it's the usual whining. I want to live in your black and white world.
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Mar 31, 2019 08:20
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screamin and creamin posted:You're projecting a whole lot of unrelated bullshit on something that amounts to a minor cultural difference, which is something that exists between every pair of countries. You would probably gladly eat cow patties in a country you deem superior, but since this is AmeriKKKa we're talking about, it's the usual whining. So what taxes do cities/towns actually get to set themselves in the US, and what about counties and the state? And why is sales tax set to "0" in the US while local government adds local sales tax anyway?
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Mar 31, 2019 10:33
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Zudgemud posted:So what taxes do cities/towns actually get to set themselves in the US, and what about counties and the state? And why is sales tax set to "0" in the US while local government adds local sales tax anyway? Because the Federal government only takes excise taxes on limited categories of goods, and otherwise funds via personal/corporate income and capital gains taxes, and customs duties of various sorts. No state or locality in the country ran sales tax before 1919, while the federal government had fought to get federal income taxation reauthorized and got it in place by 1913. And there's never really been a thing that's come up that would justify imposing a federal level general purchase sales tax. So that's why it's zero. As to who else can do it - it is a state power so all states can choose to do it and thus 45 of them do. It is also a right available to the incorporated and unincorporated territories so many of them do. States then choose individually whether they'll let specific counties or subcounty units have the power to impose additional sales tax beyond what the state does, just as they choose whether those entities may impose income tax beyond the federal, or state if the state has them. It is almost universal that counties and incorporated municipalities get to charge property tax beyond state control.
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Mar 31, 2019 14:55
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https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/50...-the-far-right/ Don't think many people will be surprised by the fact that far-right conservative christian groups are trying to influence European politics trying to oppose LGBTQ rights and abortion, but seeing laid out sheer amount of money being spent is still disconcerting.
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Apr 1, 2019 15:08
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fishmech posted:Because the Federal government only takes excise taxes on limited categories of goods, and otherwise funds via personal/corporate income and capital gains taxes, and customs duties of various sorts. No state or locality in the country ran sales tax before 1919, while the federal government had fought to get federal income taxation reauthorized and got it in place by 1913. And there's never really been a thing that's come up that would justify imposing a federal level general purchase sales tax. So that's why it's zero. So it's not been introduced at a federal level due to some aversion to federal taxes but its effectively introduced in the vast majority of states anyway. And then a random selection of further administrative subdivisions have been given extra special tax powers if they have historically whined enough to their state government? I must admit it feels unnecessarily convoluted and city-state-like to implement taxation in this way rather than on a solely federal level or statewide level.
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Apr 1, 2019 16:06
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Zudgemud posted:I must admit it feels unnecessarily convoluted and city-state-like to implement taxation in this way rather than on a solely federal level or statewide level. Eh, that's pretty usual when it comes to taxation and not something unique to the United States. It's basically the result of tax laws often originating from pretty far-back and therefore still reflecting the administrative structures of that time. You have to keep in mind that a lot of the "services" provided by the central government authorities do not even exist for that long all things considered, and that a lot of their funding streams are similarly more recent (e.g. basically all income taxes everywhere). Locally provided "services" (municipial levels and smaller administrative regions) usually have longer traditions and correspondingly older decentralized funding sources. (And most governments do not really want to abolish funding sources once they have been established.)
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Apr 1, 2019 16:23
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