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Viridiant posted:I've been worried about Pat becoming more of a lovely gamer since the breakup without both Wooly and Matt there to kinda keep him under control but I was hoping Wooly at least would be enough to keep that from getting too bad. Pat's exactly the type of ranting white dude that was really popular back in the late 90s/early 2000s from which you can draw pretty much a direct line to lovely dude/gamer attitudes today. EDIT: Wow that sure is a great page starter. Instead of responding to me, please consider speculating about Bloodlines 2 or something.
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Mar 30, 2019 22:22
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I'm sure Matt's very excited for Borderlands 3.
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Mar 30, 2019 22:27
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Pat's the kind of rear end in a top hat who I like.
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Mar 30, 2019 22:28
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He was for me too for a while but the absolute selfishness and total hypocrisy just make me uncomfortable now. Maybe it's because I was thinking of him as an internet personality but nowadays I get to watch him interact with, like, real people on twitter and go 'No wait, he's a venomous shithead this sucks actually.'? Shrug.
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Mar 30, 2019 22:32
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I mean from day 1 it seemed obvious the only thing separating Pat from the people who poo poo up comment sections is that he had a popular show
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Mar 30, 2019 22:56
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Mel Mudkiper posted:I mean, tbh, I do think there are a lot of people who evoke "what about disability" as a shield against the fact they think the game is too hard. This alone makes you a real big idiot.
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Mar 30, 2019 23:54
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Mel Mudkiper posted:I mean, tbh, I do think there are a lot of people who evoke "what about disability" as a shield against the fact they think the game is too hard. You are a loving idiot. Yours sincerely, The disabled.
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Mar 31, 2019 00:05
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:This alone makes you a real big idiot. always namecalling and questioning intelligence with this guy
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Mar 31, 2019 00:06
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"Hmmm are these people being geniuine in their interests and ideas? No, no...they're clearly just bad at video games unlike me and lying to hide their scrubbiness." -An incredibly smart person who isn't just a weird nerd trying to make their hobby into a high horse.
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Mar 31, 2019 00:08
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you are so snooty, zmb.....really telling on yourself with your reaction
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Mar 31, 2019 00:13
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Sekiro probably would have been a good opportunity for From to add difficulty settings as an experiment. It's not really connected to the Souls series, so there isn't any precedent of them not having them.
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Mar 31, 2019 00:16
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Or, I argue there is a danger in co-opting legitimate concerns about accessibility behind a false framework. Accessibility is a larger issue that cant be solved by adding an easy mode and by putting the focus on "easy mode means accessibility for the disabled" its ends up creating a false framework that ends up excluding other types of disability and other options to deal with those issues. Like, there is never this level of concern when things like color blind mode, fov sliders, and hold/mash are not available ZenMasterBullshit posted:"Hmmm are these people being geniuine in their interests and ideas? No, no...they're clearly just bad at video games unlike me and lying to hide their scrubbiness." -An incredibly smart person who isn't just a weird nerd trying to make their hobby into a high horse. Literally nothing I said at all in this thread suggests this. You are acting like this is a binary and if you are not on one side you must be on the other. I literally said earlier that I dont see an issue with an easy mode. My point is that co-opting concerns about disability access insincerely ends up creating a paradigm that no longer serves those it is meant to help. You seem to be assuming an enemy for no other reason than terminal belligerence
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Mar 31, 2019 00:18
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I don't believe that anybody has argued that easy mode is the be all, end all of accessibility options in this thread, so I'm not sure who you're even arguing with in the first place. And you desperately need to work on your phrasing if that's the case. Mel Mudkiper posted:I mean, tbh, I do think there are a lot of people who evoke "what about disability" as a shield against the fact they think the game is too hard. Do you not see how this is suggesting exactly that?
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Mar 31, 2019 00:30
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Roth posted:I don't believe that anybody has argued that easy mode is the be all, end all of accessibility options in this thread, so I'm not sure who you're even arguing with in the first place. I'm not arguing with anyone in here. I'm making an observation about the twitter fights that Pat has been in all weekend. I didn't say "there are a lot of people in this thread"
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Mar 31, 2019 00:31
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Does Sekiro even have any "actually there's already an easy mode" mechanics? I don't think it's necessarily the best argument for Souls games because it's not really true accessibility settings, but at least it's something address difficulty in some sense. Mel Mudkiper posted:Accessibility is a larger issue that cant be solved by adding an easy mode and by putting the focus on "easy mode means accessibility for the disabled" its ends up creating a false framework that ends up excluding other types of disability and other options to deal with those issues. Okay, but difficulty / assist modes are still part of the equation. To the same point people seem to be arguing accessibility just means more flexible control schemes and colour blind settings. Mel Mudkiper posted:Like, there is never this level of concern when things like color blind mode, fov sliders, and hold/mash are not available There was certainly a bunch of guff about the Spyro remakes having no subtitles, and there's frequently complaints about bad subtitles. FOV sliders are frequently complained about. I also frequently see awareness regarding colourblind settings. Game Maker's Toolkit's Designing for Disability pretty much covered all the facets. Jimquisition has be bringing up FOV and colorblind among a few other accessibility issues for years.
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Mar 31, 2019 00:31
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Oxyclean posted:Okay, but difficulty / assist modes are still part of the equation. To the same point people seem to be arguing accessibility just means more flexible control schemes and colour blind settings. Oh absolutely and I do think its a reasonable thing to add. I was more concerned that there seems to be self-serving attempt to co-opt the narrative simply by some (not here) because they don't want to be made fun for just wanting an easy mode. i.e.: If the only time you evoke disability access is when you are arguing about an easy mode and not about a wider variety of methods that need to become more commonplace, you are co-opting a legitimate issue for selfish reasons. Again, since I apparently need to say this, I do not think anyone in here is doing that. Mel Mudkiper fucked around with this message at 00:36 on Mar 31, 2019 |
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Mar 31, 2019 00:34
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I mean, it sucks there's probably people doing that, but trying to make a point out of it feels kinda...eh? Particularly when I see people doing the exact opposite of "well this guy with a disability says he doesn't need an easy mode!"
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Mar 31, 2019 00:41
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Oxyclean posted:I mean, it sucks there's probably people doing that, but trying to make a point out of it feels kinda...eh? Particularly when I see people doing the exact opposite of "well this guy with a disability says he doesn't need an easy mode!" I mean, I mostly brought it up because, in here at least, the issue seemed largely resolved and agreed upon "make a good effort to give your games accessibility" I wanted to bring it up because I saw it as a side issue and do, genuinely, worry that if people co-opt the narrative it will end up de-emphasizing the actual things games need to do to embrace accessibility for the disabled.
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Mar 31, 2019 00:44
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It's just assuming ill intent of people who are saying something I agree with anyway, so it's not worth worrying about.
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Mar 31, 2019 00:46
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Roth posted:It's just assuming ill intent of people who are saying something I agree with anyway, so it's not worth worrying about. Yeah maybe its a personal thing but I worry about the co-opting of advocacy by those who are not directly affected because I have seen it distort outcomes to no longer serve those it nominally represents (See:Autism speaks). I may be blowing it out of proportion though.
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Mar 31, 2019 00:50
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This asuras wrath playthrough is really poor, not least of which because I think he started drinking around episode 5. Is this his artistic vision? E: I really don't think he gets that the game is taking the style of a tv anime Namtab fucked around with this message at 01:06 on Mar 31, 2019 |
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Mar 31, 2019 01:03
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Oxyclean posted:There was certainly a bunch of guff about the Spyro remakes having no subtitles, and there's frequently complaints about bad subtitles. FOV sliders are frequently complained about. I also frequently see awareness regarding colourblind settings. It's criminal to not have subtitles in this day and age imo, and the colourblind options is another one that's real bad, especially due to the half assed "options" that most games add that only fix it for a small subset of colourblind people, rather than just letting them set the ui markers colour themselves. Also don't think I've forgotten that a lot of people(Most likely a bunch of the people active in this thread even) actively downplayed people wanting higher fov to be manbabies, when the disability(Simulator Sickness) has been known since like the loving 50's.
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Mar 31, 2019 01:31
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I for one worry about people stifling advocacy because they claim to care about the advocacy being co-opted, on my behalf.
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Mar 31, 2019 01:42
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:I for one worry about people stifling advocacy because they claim to care about the advocacy being co-opted, on my behalf. I'm not sure how I am stifling anything other than by assuming a secret malevolence
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Mar 31, 2019 01:59
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I feel this argument is really circular and people are talking last each other. I side pro-reasonable adjustments for disabilties and feel that it's not the death of art to have an easy mode.
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Mar 31, 2019 02:47
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Some games aren't made to be played or watched, in Naughty Dog's case LOL by everyone, and that's okay.
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Mar 31, 2019 05:12
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Listen man, I’ve come around a bit on Pat after the Hbomb and Full Body talks, but that dude is a grognard rear end human and he opinions on how things should be with games are bad.
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Apr 1, 2019 13:24
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So, I've been reflecting on it and I wonder, would the issue be better solved by improved hardware and methods of interface? Like, returning to the disability question, if hardware were improved to reach a point where a person without traditional dexterity was able to interface with the game in a way practically identical to someone using a traditional controller, is a lack of easy mode still a discriminatory prohibition? Like, if we removed the aspect of physical disability limiting manual dexterity, is a limitation in a form of difficulty still discriminatory?
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Apr 1, 2019 13:29
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Can we all just agree that From games need to just put a simple "What this item is actually loving for" line in item descriptions?
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Apr 1, 2019 22:56
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No!
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Apr 1, 2019 23:21
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So based off tweets I wanna see the Pat Slowbeef debate
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Apr 1, 2019 23:56
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Like, if we removed the aspect of physical disability limiting manual dexterity, is a limitation in a form of difficulty still discriminatory? Some people are just straight scrubs, and they should be allowed to play games through to the end, too.
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Apr 2, 2019 00:06
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Mel Mudkiper posted:So, I've been reflecting on it and I wonder, would the issue be better solved by improved hardware and methods of interface? You didn't reflect very hard. There's more disabilities then physical ones, or ones related to controllers & inputs, m'dude. Like, there's many ways to tackle accessibility for various disabilities, and in many cases targeted solutions (such as colour blind settings ) are more efficient/effective. But stuff like Assist modes & difficulty settings and remappable controllers make for better broad approaches.
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Apr 2, 2019 00:08
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Also cheat codes. Kids love 'em. People doing system mastery love 'em. They let you spawn in cars in Grand Theft Auto in palm trees to make car kabobs. They're the best!
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Apr 2, 2019 00:10
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capitalism ruined cheat codes
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Apr 2, 2019 00:12
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When I was a kid, I told my friend I was having trouble with Secret of Mana and he said it's because I wasn't running in circles killing enemies over and over until numbers went up, so I used my Game Genie to cheat to a higher level and actually played the game in a way which was enjoyable.
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Apr 2, 2019 00:23
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Oxyclean posted:capitalism ruined cheat codes From the makers of the Game Genie and Action Replay, seize the means with the new Marx Manipulator!
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Apr 2, 2019 00:29
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Oxyclean posted:You didn't reflect very hard. There's more disabilities then physical ones, or ones related to controllers & inputs, m'dude. Well yeah but I am trying to resolve the question of a game being unwavering with it not also being not discriminatory. Like, is it something that can be attempted or is it an irrelevant thing to try
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Apr 2, 2019 01:07
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Mystic Mongol posted:Some people are just straight scrubs, and they should be allowed to play games through to the end, too. This was clearly the idea that made pat the angriest, he gave himself away comparing sekiro to fighting games
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Apr 2, 2019 01:22
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https://gamerant.com/sekiro-corrupted-monk-reddit-quadriplegic/ A quadriplegic gentleman didn't have issues beating one of the harder bosses in Sekiro. Maybe disabled individuals don't need an easy mode to feel fulfilled or to beat games? Maybe by "catering" to disabled people's supposed inability to play games all you're doing is making light of the skill and dedication they put in to play it at the same level? poo poo it's the same thing with brolylegs that dude plays SF at a professional level and yet nobody brought him up. All this dogpiling is dumb reactionary bullshit designed to paint people who don't absolutely agree as monsters committing 'bad look.' Thus creating a dumb secular argument where everyone tries to show how morally superior they are than one another. In reality it was never about accessibility. If it were you wouldn't be nitpicking every endless morsel of a sentence looking for a kernel of "wrong think" to crucify someone over. It's only about looking like you care about accessibility. Funny how it only occurs when certain people refuse to pull their heads out of their asses. Lovely Joe Stalin posted:You are a loving idiot. ZenMasterBullshit posted:This alone makes you a real big idiot. yep, classy. not using anyone as a shield at all. Letting disabled people speak and act in their own interests would be too much for them after all. Better patronize them and decide what they should want. It's in their best interest after all. Especially when it's spear-headed by lazy game journos desperate to prove they aren't poo poo at games rehashing boring arguments about difficulty that we've had before. But perish the thought of someone using a group of people to further their own agenda. That never happens. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Apr 2, 2019 10:20
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