|
thatfatkid posted:It really is beyond the pale that the Maduro Govt would ban an attempted coup leader from holding public office. Will the oppression never end?! Counterpoint: Yes it absolutely is a stunningly obvious sign of political repression and authoritarianism, and you really need to step back for a moment and think about this situation critically. It doesn't matter whether Guaidó is a 'coup leader' or not. He has not been arrested, charged with a crime, or convicted in a court of law. If a state wishes to bar someone from holding office, there needs to be a legal process, burdens of proof, and separation from political influence. In the UK, for instance, the only restrictions on holding office are (If I am reading the guidelines correctly) that the person is not a civil servant, and that they are not actively in prison or have been convicted of election-related crimes within three years. In the United States, there are no restrictions on seeking federal office outside of age and citizenship. There has been no process here, just a declaration—as Venezuela is not a democracy of the people, it is an authoritarian single-party government, and the rule of law matters less than the desires of the executive. e: poo poo, Eugene Debs campaigned for the Presidency in 1920 directly from prison, and if Venezuela can't even hold to the standards of 1920s America that's loving sad. Acebuckeye13 fucked around with this message at 04:23 on Mar 31, 2019 |
#
?
Mar 31, 2019 04:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 21, 2024 10:25 |
|
|
No process and only a declaration? Hmmm why does that sound familiar... 🤔 By the way there actually was a process and justification for why Guaido is now barred from public office for 15 years. "Venezuela’s comptroller, Elvis Amoroso, said Guaido had failed to explain how he paid for foreign trips since joining the opposition-run legislature." (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-politics-idUSKCN1R91NY) No need to lie about the circumstances of Guaido's barring. thatfatkid fucked around with this message at 04:29 on Mar 31, 2019 |
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2019 04:24
|
|
|
fishmech posted:Why do you refuse to address the core issue: Venezuela? You seem to want to simultaneously believe nothing is wrong, but also that there's sanctions you need to complain about Answer his question.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2019 04:26
|
|
|
thatfatkid posted:No process and only a declaration? Hmmm why does that sound familiar... 🤔 loving listen to yourself, a PSUV party member, and former VP of Maduro's fake legislature declaring a candidate to be barred from holding office for 15 years for 'financial irregularities' without any oversight or appeal is not a process and you know it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2019 04:35
|
|
|
Judakel posted:Answer his question. Do you believe the journalist in question about the Venezuelan situation? Yes or no.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2019 04:35
|
|
|
A public servant does their job and attempts to investigate the source of funds for all the travel an attempted coup leader is doing. Guaido so far has not explained the source of funding for his travel. A states legislature should not be made up of members that are compromised and in the pocket of undeclared mystery patrons, hence Guaido is barred from public office. Should public servants not do their job anymore because it might inconvenience the coup? Is blatant corruption a good thing when the opposition do it? thatfatkid fucked around with this message at 04:41 on Mar 31, 2019 |
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2019 04:39
|
|
|
thatfatkid posted:https://twitter.com/dancohen3000/status/1111987326585053184 Lmao remember when people were saying Guaido was super popular?
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2019 04:40
|
|
|
thatfatkid posted:A public servant does their job and attempts to investigate the source of funds for all the travel an attempted coup leader is doing. Guaido so far has not explained the source of funding for his travel. Cool, so when the right starts rounding up the left for 'unexplained travel expenses', you won't have a problem, right? Because so long as people say they're just following the rules, in spite of all evidence, that's what matters, right?
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2019 04:43
|
|
|
Christ some of you just make me depressed with how much boot you're willing to lick.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2019 04:44
|
|
|
Acebuckeye13 posted:Cool, so when the right starts rounding up the left for 'unexplained travel expenses', you won't have a problem, right? Because so long as people say they're just following the rules, in spite of all evidence, that's what matters, right? But Guaido hasn't been rounded up...
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2019 04:58
|
|
|
Acebuckeye13 posted:Christ some of you just make me depressed with how much boot you're willing to lick. Indeed. I don't know how some people just seem unable to acknowledge the obviousness of whats going on.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2019 06:48
|
|
|
Tom Guycot posted:Indeed. I don't know how some people just seem unable to acknowledge the obviousness of whats going on. For the Assad apologists among them, Maduro *only* arresting opposition members and *not* murdering them must seem excessively polite. It lets them pretend that Maduro has some sort of respect for rule of law, instead of being an incompetent dictator.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2019 07:43
|
|
Acebuckeye13 posted:Christ some of you just make me depressed with how much boot you're willing to lick. Says the guy arguing in favor of a literal US backed coup in South America in 2019 Lol
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2019 08:06
|
|
|
Rust Martialis posted:For the Assad apologists among them, Maduro *only* arresting opposition members and *not* murdering them must seem excessively polite. It lets them pretend that Maduro has some sort of respect for rule of law, instead of being an incompetent dictator. What does Assad, the leader of the Syrian government, have to do with a thread about Venezuela? Also what arrests are you referring to that the supposed "Assad-apologists" are in favour of?
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2019 08:16
|
|
|
fishmech posted:Do you believe the journalist in question about the Venezuelan situation? Yes or no. Answer his question.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2019 08:38
|
|
|
thatfatkid posted:What does Assad, the leader of the Syrian government, have to do with a thread about Venezuela? Even when Assad was literally massacring entire towns with chemical weapons, even when the mass graves could be viewed on Google Earth, even as the death toll surpassed half a million, the rose emoji brigade still insisted that Baathism had done nothing wrong and if there was a problem in Syria which there isn't it was totally due to "false flag attacks" and "terrorists." The same sort of doublethink and outrageous denialism is being deployed for another leftist icon, Maduro, and the idea is to maybe put a stop to it before the bodies start piling up this time.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2019 10:43
|
|
|
M. Discordia posted:the idea is to maybe put a stop to it before the bodies start piling up this time.  (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2019 11:28
|
|
|
M. Discordia posted:Even when Assad was literally massacring entire towns with chemical weapons, even when the mass graves could be viewed on Google Earth, even as the death toll surpassed half a million, the rose emoji brigade still insisted that Baathism had done nothing wrong and if there was a problem in Syria which there isn't it was totally due to "false flag attacks" and "terrorists." The same sort of doublethink and outrageous denialism is being deployed for another leftist icon, Maduro, and the idea is to maybe put a stop to it before the bodies start piling up this time. There is so much wrong with this, one of the main things being that it has literally nothing to do with Venezuela.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2019 11:40
|
|
|
Presenting Nipples posted:Lmao remember when people were saying Guaido was super popular? I dunno I'd say his rallies tend to be , oh, much, much, much bigger than maduro's
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2019 11:57
|
|
|
The "anti-imperialist" insistence on apologism and denial for any anti-American dictator in the world has everything to do with why the PSUV regime and its occupation of the Venezuelan government in defiance of the legitimate elected president Juan Guaidó has any foreign supporters left at all. Kneejerk support for anyone who will say "America is the Great Satan" and prop up Russian and Chinese interests in the Western Hemisphere is the only thing worth discussing - certainly there is no valid debate about "are these people REALLY starving, is it perhaps ACTUALLY GOOD to send death squads door to door" between rational, moral people.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2019 11:58
|
|
|
M. Discordia posted:The "anti-imperialist" insistence on apologism and denial for any anti-American dictator in the world has everything to do with why the PSUV regime and its occupation of the Venezuelan government in defiance of the legitimate elected president Juan Guaidó has any foreign supporters left at all. Kneejerk support for anyone who will say "America is the Great Satan" and prop up Russian and Chinese interests in the Western Hemisphere is the only thing worth discussing - certainly there is no valid debate about "are these people REALLY starving, is it perhaps ACTUALLY GOOD to send death squads door to door" between rational, moral people. Are you ok? You seem to be in distress and have a tenuous grasp on reality. In what way could Guaido possibly be considered the "legitimate elected president"? How is being critical of an attempted coup propping up Russian and Chinese interests in the "Western Hemisphere"?
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2019 12:48
|
|
|
I do love how every week now there is a new poster in here that tries to pretend Venezuela is actually doing just fine.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2019 13:01
|
|
|
zapplez posted:I do love how every week now there is a new poster in here that tries to pretend Venezuela is actually doing just fine. I love how you used another account you have to pretend to have arguments with people (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2019 13:04
|
|
|
zapplez posted:I do love how every week now there is a new poster in here that tries to pretend Venezuela is actually doing just fine. Sorry to disturb your private club bootlicker. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2019 13:26
|
|
|
Jose posted:I love how you used another account you have to pretend to have arguments with people drat you got me. call me out in a thread in another forum if you want to go on another dumb derail. also aren't you a "there was no chemical attacks in syria" idiot, that posted such hot takes like that in this thread?
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2019 14:13
|
|
|
Lol when was Guaido ever elected dumbass the entire reason this is a thing is because he SAT OUT THE ELECTION, his importance is entirely based on the fact that nobody voted for him.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2019 14:40
|
|
|
Crazycryodude posted:Lol when was Guaido ever elected dumbass the entire reason this is a thing is because he SAT OUT THE ELECTION, his importance is entirely based on the fact that nobody voted for him. The 2017 election was for a separate (and questionably legitimate) body which Guiado was not part of. He was definitely elected to the National Assembly.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2019 14:55
|
|
|
zapplez posted:I dunno I'd say his rallies tend to be , oh, much, much, much bigger than maduro's Funny because his election tally isn’t.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2019 16:39
|
|
|
Guaidó is the chosen leader of the National Assembly that was elected in 2015 in the only even partially valid election Venezuela has had in a decade. Maduro has never won a free and fair election. Juan Guaidó is the legitimate president of Venezuela and Maduro is occupying the office through a military-judicial coup.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2019 16:51
|
|
|
When is the next election scheduled?
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2019 17:21
|
|
|
mila kunis posted:When is the next election scheduled? Maduro has offered to call a snap election, checkmate fascistailures.  for the National Assembly, the body he lost in 2015 which prompted the whole "let's ruin Venezuelan electoral democracy" thing" real answer: the National Electoral Commission website is a bit of a shitshow, so i'm trying to find concrete information elsewhere - The next scheduled National Assembly elections are in 2020; one assumes that if the PSUV wins, the Supreme Court will rule the National Assembly is no longer invalid and can do things  - The Constituent Assembly is nominally a temporary body, and I don't think there is a mechanism for new elections to it other than "if the PSUV feels like it" - it's supposed to propose a new constitution and then dissolve, not be a super-parliament to override the one the PSUV just lost. - The next scheduled presidential election is in 2024. - Municipal elections are every 4 years in theory; a couple years got skipped resulting in the 2017-2018 ones. One therefore assumes that unless they're again postponed due to some sort of crisis (but lol how likely is that?) the next ones will be in 2021-2022, and maybe they'll be batched back together this time. - Governor elections are every 4 years in theory; so, also 2021-2022, for similar reasons / with similar caveats to the municipal ones.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2019 17:51
|
|
|
M. Discordia posted:Guaidó is the chosen leader of the National Assembly that was elected in 2015 in the only even partially valid election Venezuela has had in a decade. Maduro has never won a free and fair election. Juan Guaidó is the legitimate president of Venezuela and Maduro is occupying the office through a military-judicial coup. ehh, while everything that's happened since 2015 is authoritarian garbage stemming from the PSUV freaking out that they lost the National Assembly so catastrophically that the opposition was about to have a supermajority, the 2013 presidential election was probably fair-ish afaik it was also super-duper close, though edit: also, interim president until new elections, which Crazycryodude posted:Lol when was Guaido ever elected dumbass the entire reason this is a thing is because he SAT OUT THE ELECTION, his importance is entirely based on the fact that nobody voted for him. why did the Coalition Formerly Known As The MUD (almost entirely) sit out the presidential election? seems like a weird thing to do in a functioning democracy Goatse James Bond fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Mar 31, 2019 |
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2019 17:55
|
|
|
GreyjoyBastard posted:ehh, while everything that's happened since 2015 is authoritarian garbage stemming from the PSUV freaking out that they lost the National Assembly so catastrophically that the opposition was about to have a supermajority, the 2013 presidential election was probably fair-ish afaik Because they don’t believe in democracy and their US masters told them to sit out.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2019 18:10
|
|
|
Jose posted:I love how you used another account you have to pretend to have arguments with people This is the most pathetic thing I've read all day lol (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2019 18:21
|
|
|
Jose posted:I love how you used another account you have to pretend to have arguments with people Gonna say this now, don't post this poo poo to try to bait other posters into a one month probation. Talk about the thread topic or read a different thread.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2019 20:00
|
|
|
Presenting Nipples posted:Because they don’t believe in democracy and their US masters told them to sit out. ...You really do think the entire opposition has been under the control of the US from the beginning, don't you.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2019 20:49
|
|
|
Pharohman777 posted:...You really do think the entire opposition has been under the control of the US from the beginning, don't you. Nah I don’t deal in absolutes. There are definitely genuine people who oppose Maduro, including people in the PSUV. However the US has backed right wing opposition since Chavez was elected and those people have no real solutions, they just want their telenovelas back.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2019 21:12
|
|
|
So the left wing opposition does have solutions?
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2019 21:24
|
|
|
There are protests in some areas of Caracas today after the city lost most or all electrical service earlier this afternoon. One of the protests was on the Fuerzas Armadas avenue, where two protesters were injured after a colectivo armado (pro-government armed civilian group) fired on the demonstrators. Here are pictures of the coletivo armado that showed up to the protest on the Fuerzas Armadas avenue: https://twitter.com/NanoNewsVE/status/1112446592202821634 https://twitter.com/NanoNewsVE/status/1112446815054516225 https://twitter.com/MelhanyTuitea/status/1112443917428027392 You can hear a lot of shooting in this clip, but it's hard to make out what's happening exactly. The woman recording is saying things like, "Look, here come the colectivos to kill people! drat you colectivos!": https://twitter.com/Raptor_01/status/1112443881558327296
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2019 22:05
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 21, 2024 10:25 |
|
|
It's very heartening to see that unlike Allende, the government in Venezuela decided to arm regular people - it makes the stakes much higher for the right wing to try to install right wing liberalism.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2019 22:09
|
|
