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LimburgLimbo posted:Here's some kickin' rad poo poo about 60's protests against Narita airport where protesters used advanced tactics to straight up beat the police in close combat. Dissenting Japan posted:Narita International Airport was set finally to open on 30 March 1978, but Hantai Dōmei’s cohorts had one more ace up their sleeve. On 26 March there was a last-ditch effort to prevent the airport from opening and what a spectacle it was. The facility was being protected by 14,000 riot police, and so, to create a diversion, the protestors rebuilt their fortresses and a 16-metre tower. They held a massive 10,000-strong rally at the fortresses, drawing the police away. And then all hell began to break loose. A burning truck loaded with radicals came from nowhere and rammed through the main airport gates. (One of those on the truck would later die from his burns.) Hundreds then rushed into the airport grounds at fourteen points around the site. Emergency services ran around frantically, trying to put out the flames. Foot soldiers from the all-red Fourth International were chased by the all-black riot police, making for a colourful, oddly beautiful scene.
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Mar 7, 2019 23:15
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Forgive me if this is the wrong place, but I've come across the various attempted coups of the 1930s a few times recently, and it's made me wonder: what was it about the Taisho era democracy that these guys hated so much? Because from my limited reading about the time it doesn't really sound that bad.
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Mar 9, 2019 02:26
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Plastic_Gargoyle posted:Forgive me if this is the wrong place, but I've come across the various attempted coups of the 1930s a few times recently, and it's made me wonder: what was it about the Taisho era democracy that these guys hated so much? Because from my limited reading about the time it doesn't really sound that bad. The short answer is everyone was insane. Beyond that you're in buy a book territory because every explanation is just gonna raise more questions. I say this as someone who's read a book and still doesn't understand it.
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Mar 9, 2019 03:01
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Plastic_Gargoyle posted:Forgive me if this is the wrong place, but I've come across the various attempted coups of the 1930s a few times recently, and it's made me wonder: what was it about the Taisho era democracy that these guys hated so much? Because from my limited reading about the time it doesn't really sound that bad. Short version IMO: The military and the electorate didn't like the way liberal democratic institutions had Japan be beholden to international standards that were pretty explicitly racist towards Asia in general, and which kept them out of the global colonial race. It's... pretty contradictory but let's be honest, that was the spirit of the times.
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Mar 13, 2019 10:27
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NeilPerry posted:Short version IMO: The military and the electorate didn't like the way liberal democratic institutions had Japan be beholden to international standards that were pretty explicitly racist towards Asia in general, and which kept them out of the global colonial race. It's... pretty contradictory but let's be honest, that was the spirit of the times. Japanese society was on the brink of collapse due to food shortages too. Japan industrialized too quickly and Korea wasn't enough to provide for the industrial and food needs of Showa Japan. Colonialism was seen as the solution to these issues because that was, as stated, the spirit of the era.
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Mar 13, 2019 13:59
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There was starvation in Japan during the early 1930s, but I wouldn't blame it on the lack of farmland. Instead, I see it as an extension of the Great Depression. The Japanese economy was crumbling in the aftermath of Smoot–Hawley Tariff, since Japan was dependent on international trade even then. Especially when it came to massive quantities of modern, industrial fertilizers. Mainland Japan can produce a shocking amount of food with unlimited industrial fertilizers, but they couldn't get enough during the Great Depression. Food prices dropped in Japan, but wages dropped even faster. It didn't help that the traditional democratic elites decided they needed deflation to restore the gold standard in order to help the economy. Thus, even though food prices plummeted by 40% from 1929 to 1931, poor people still couldn't afford food, because landless farmworker income dropped by 60%. So if they didn't personally own the land, they had issues getting enough to eat. But Showa Japan didn't have any real problems with food until the Great Depression hit. Poster Polyakov has much more to say about food and Facism.
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Mar 14, 2019 20:53
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https://twitter.com/HirokoTabuchi/status/1112551632133373958 I dunno how much input Abe had into it, but it seems like it's favoring the more nationalistic policies that Abe has been pushing towards, so.
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Apr 1, 2019 05:25
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yeah, order and peace is a little bit fashy but what are you to expect from royals
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Apr 1, 2019 05:57
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peace by order is fash as hell
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Apr 1, 2019 06:44
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The previous Emperor wanted nothing to do with Abe's nationalism. I have no idea about his son but I imagine he's the same. "Order and peace" just sounds like...civilization and all modern socieites. Most people aren't anarchists. . It also just sounds quintessentially Japanese although I don't want to fall into stereotypes. I just like studying Confucianism and it had a large influence on Japan.
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Apr 1, 2019 07:01
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God forbid someone indicates they want peace and cooperation
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Apr 1, 2019 07:17
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“Hey let’s all get along and not kill each other peacefully as in this thousand year old poem” Goons: WHAT getting along? You know who got along? The Nazis that’s who.
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Apr 1, 2019 07:18
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The 令 comes from 令月, which means "a month of good fortune." Even a cursory Google search would've revealed that, but gently caress that poo poo, we gots to attach a contexts that isn't there. Why not also bitch and moan about the fact that it derives from a Japanese text rather than a Chinese one. You know who else used texts from their own country? Nazis, probably.
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Apr 1, 2019 09:08
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ah yes it's just goons having such a reaction https://twitter.com/SDPJapan/status/1112618160287444993/photo/1
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Apr 1, 2019 09:17
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mikeycp posted:ah yes it's just goons having such a reaction
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Apr 1, 2019 09:48
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mikeycp posted:ah yes it's just goons having such a reaction You mean that single tweet getting ratioed from a leftist party which holds a whopping 4 out of 707 seats in the combined houses that will kneejerk hate everything said by Abe (which in a way is a sentiment I can otherwise get behind), which reads how it なとなく (“kinda”; it’s actually really weirdly casual language for a tweet from a political party) feels like it’s authoritarian because the character is also used in “order” (as in to give an order to someone). You have definitely proven that somebody has said something on Twitter.
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Apr 1, 2019 09:50
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This is definitely a better tweet about the new era. https://mobile.twitter.com/caiga12_kp246/status/1112548392599588864?s=21
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Apr 1, 2019 09:52
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LimburgLimbo posted:This is definitely a better tweet about the new era. it is
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Apr 1, 2019 09:59
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LimburgLimbo posted:You mean that single tweet getting ratioed from a leftist party which holds a whopping 4 out of 707 seats in the combined houses that will kneejerk hate everything said by Abe (which in a way is a sentiment I can otherwise get behind), which reads how it なとなく (“kinda”; it’s actually really weirdly casual language for a tweet from a political party) feels like it’s authoritarian because the character is also used in “order” (as in to give an order to someone).
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Apr 1, 2019 10:04
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Charles 2 of Spain posted:What's the minimum number of seats a party needs to win before they can say something and also what language they should use. 5. They're just under cutoff sorry to say.
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Apr 1, 2019 10:51
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I'm just mad they recycled the 和 from 昭和 
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Apr 1, 2019 11:26
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LimburgLimbo posted:This is definitely a better tweet about the new era. lmao
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Apr 1, 2019 11:29
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mikeycp posted:ah yes it's just goons having such a reaction And 令 is also used in 令月 in the Manyoshu, in this context 初春令月、氣淑風和、梅披鏡前之粉、蘭薫珮後之香。 in a stanza (初春令月) that basically translates as "It is the month of good fortune in early spring." So why, in your opinion, is a tweet by an ineffective opposition party apparently supposed to be definitive evidence of shenanigans. above all other translations?
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Apr 1, 2019 18:45
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They didn't put 安 in it, it's fast to write, and it has a different roman alphabet initial, which is about as much as anyone could ask for without them announcing that they are abolishing the entire era name system.
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Apr 1, 2019 20:42
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LimburgLimbo posted:5. They're just under cutoff sorry to say. You're really bothered that the 4 seat party said a thing.
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Apr 1, 2019 21:30
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Except for the usual suspects like Adelstein most of the English-language Japan people I follow on twitter have been quite measured. Even the SNA guy refrained from screaming fascist despite definitely being one of the people with the seemingly uncontrollable reflex to do that Here's this guy https://twitter.com/observingjapan/status/1112855612256407553 icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 01:22 on Apr 2, 2019 |
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Apr 2, 2019 00:42
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Good thread on the new era name with some useful context from a professor of Japanese history: https://twitter.com/nick_kapur/status/1112703951646937088?s=21 Darth Walrus fucked around with this message at 12:15 on Apr 2, 2019 |
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Apr 2, 2019 12:06
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Since the new era name is causing Americans on twitter so much consternation, and the other candidates have now been leaked and we can see they are clearly much better than reiwa, I think the Japanese government should give in to international pressure and change the new era name to the alternate candidates 万和 or 万保, which would clearly be much less controversial.
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Apr 2, 2019 13:06
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Darth Walrus posted:Good thread on the new era name with some useful context from a professor of Japanese history: This same guy, later in the thread: https://twitter.com/nick_kapur/status/1112712884784717824?s=21 https://twitter.com/nick_kapur/status/1112713983683907584?s=21 https://twitter.com/nick_kapur/status/1112716393349287936?s=21 https://twitter.com/nick_kapur/status/1112720812707065856?s=21 https://twitter.com/nick_kapur/status/1112721457006682113?s=21 https://twitter.com/nick_kapur/status/1112723747998519296?s=21 Yes, it’s a loving dog whistle.
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Apr 2, 2019 13:46
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Pollyanna posted:This same guy, later in the thread: Yup. Like I said, it's a good thread.
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Apr 2, 2019 14:15
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quote:ordered/commanded by the Tokugawa shogunate quote:徳川に命令する
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Apr 2, 2019 14:51
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The best thing about the new era name is that you can see clearly the people who know very little Japanese and only look at the first meaning in an eng-jap dictionary.
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Apr 2, 2019 15:11
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I dunno, I think there's a lot of reason to be suspicious of 令和. Ignoring the reactionary trends in Japan's government just because the government says it's from a 100 year old poem is kind of naive. That usage of 令 isn't unheard of, but it's much more commonly seen in the word 命令 (an order) or 令状 (a warrant) than it is in something like 令姉 (someone's elder sister) or 令月 (auspicious month). Most people who see 令 will read it as "command." That quoted twitter thread is a really good explanation of it, too. But it doesn't really go into how uncommonly used 和 is considering its association with "Japan." Because of its use in the Showa period, it has some really distinct nationalism inherent to its usage in an era name. It'd be kind of like if someone like Trump wanted to make a new Pax Americana. It SOUNDS nice, but having suspicions about it would be ... ya know, smart. Ershalim fucked around with this message at 15:51 on Apr 2, 2019 |
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Apr 2, 2019 15:47
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I know poo poo all about Japanese but eschewing a Chinese poem for a Japanese one for the first time seems like a pretty clear statement regardless of any other context That said, was there this kind of controversy for previous era names?
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Apr 2, 2019 16:00
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Ershalim posted:But it doesn't really go into how uncommonly used 和 is considering its association with "Japan." Because of its use in the Showa period, it has some really distinct nationalism inherent to its usage in an era name. Fundamentally the era name simply doesn't matter that much, this era name isn't that terrible (it could have been a lot worse), and nobody's going to think about what it means after 5 minutes so I don't understand why people are making such a huge deal about this. If you want to complain about Abe being a nationalism, maybe look at all the other stuff he has actually done rather than fixating on the interpretation of the character 令 as if this affects anything? The general trend is toward people using western dates more (although the new era may cause a brief fad of more people using the era name), so in the long run the era names are probably going to become obsolete anyway. Koramei posted:I know poo poo all about Japanese but eschewing a Chinese poem for a Japanese one for the first time seems like a pretty clear statement regardless of any other context
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Apr 2, 2019 16:14
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mystes posted:This not true at all. Obviously the Showa emperor was involved in ww2, but the Showa era continued until 1989 and Japanese people absolutely don't automatically think of nationalism when they hear "Showa". Also, the character 和 is used all the time and has no associations with nationalism. That's true, yeah. I just meant that you don't generally see era names that have 和 in them. There's Eiwa and Meiwa, but that's about it. 和 by itself doesn't have a nationalistic idea to it. It's mostly just used in stuff like 和服 and 和食 (Japanese clothes and food, respectively). I didn't mean to imply that it was a word for Japanese Nationalism. Just that combined with Abe being a prick and the only recent usage of it being Showa, it's not something I particularly want to see as a national agenda. You're obviously free to disagree. Your second point about the era names becoming obsolete is well taken, though.
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Apr 2, 2019 16:21
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mystes posted:Maybe someone who's making this sort of very basic mistake understanding Japanese shouldn't be posting on twitter about how the new era name is a dog whistle? I mean we also have people in here who are making unequivocal statements about how it’s an obvious fascist dog whistle while simultaneously posting about how excited they are about visiting Japan for the first time next year. Koramei posted:I know poo poo all about Japanese but eschewing a Chinese poem for a Japanese one for the first time seems like a pretty clear statement regardless of any other context Previous era names were chosen in extremely different times, including while under actual totalitarian governments. Breaking from tradition to choose Japanese instead of Chinese is certainly a thing but maybe they don’t feel the need to pay homage to a country that’s regularly drumming up mass protest against them and regularly encroaching on their airspace with military aircraft, etc. Anyway I think nobody here is disputing that Abe is a shithead who would gladly go much closer to full on fascist if he could but people are bending over backwards to make a case that harmony/order as a positive is some crazy out of the blue sentiment *in loving Japan*
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Apr 2, 2019 16:23
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Guys today for lunch I had 和食, which translated to English is “Fascist Meal”, we’ve seriously crossed the Rubicon now that every day millions of Japanese people are paying omage to Mussolini at Evey meal.
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Apr 2, 2019 16:27
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mystes posted:This not true at all. Obviously the Showa emperor was involved in ww2, but the Showa era continued until 1989 and Japanese people absolutely don't automatically think of nationalism when they hear "Showa". Also, the character 和 is used all the time and has no associations with nationalism. Just wait until the people pulling their hair about the era name find out about the secrets act that’s so broadly written you can arrest anyone, the increase in the market share of the famous far-right revisionist textbooks from like 1% back when it was in the news all the time to 6% or whatever it is now, the enforcement of mandatory singing of the national anthem, the new rules about teaching patriotism, and other stuff that I may or may not be remembering the details of right. I’m sure the twitter sphere will as equally abuzz!
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Apr 2, 2019 16:31
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Ershalim posted:That's true, yeah. I just meant that you don't generally see era names that have 和 in them. There's Eiwa and Meiwa, but that's about it. quote:「平成」の「平」は12回目であり、「成」は元号の漢字として初めて使われた[4]。「昭和」の「昭」は1回「和」は19回、「大正」の「大」は6回「正」は19回、「明治」の「明」は7回使われている[3]。
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Apr 2, 2019 16:32
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