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Who do you want to be the 2020 Democratic Nominee? This poll is closed. |
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| Joe "the liberal who fights busing" Biden |
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27 | 1.40% |
| Bernie "please don't die" Sanders |
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1017 | 52.69% |
| Cory "charter schools" Booker |
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12 | 0.62% |
| Kirsten "wall street" Gillibrand |
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24 | 1.24% |
| Kamala "truancy queen" Harris |
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59 | 3.06% |
| Julian "who?" Castro |
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7 | 0.36% |
| Tulsi "gay panic" Gabbard |
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25 | 1.30% |
| Michael "crimes crimes crimes" Avenatti |
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22 | 1.14% |
| Sherrod "discount bernie" Brown |
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21 | 1.09% |
| Amy "horrible boss" Klobuchar |
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12 | 0.62% |
| Tammy "stands for america" Duckworth |
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48 | 2.49% |
| Beto "whataburger" O'Rourke |
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32 | 1.66% |
| Elizabeth "instagram beer" Warren |
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284 | 14.72% |
| Tom "impeach please" Steyer |
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4 | 0.21% |
| Michael "soda is the devil" Bloomberg |
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9 | 0.47% |
| Joseph Stalin |
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287 | 14.87% |
| Howard "coffee republican" Schultz |
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10 | 0.52% |
Jay "nobody cares about climate change  " Inslee |
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13 | 0.67% |
| Pete "gently caress the homeless" Butt Man |
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17 | 0.88% |
| Total: | 1930 votes | ||
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bowser posted:I'm not 100% feeling the Bern like everyone else in this thread, but it looks really clear to me that there's a concerted effort by the media to prevent him from winning the nomination. Conservatives who normally jump on any opportunity to smear Democrats are defending the honor of Joe Biden while centrists are doing everything they can to smear Bernie as the left wing Trump. The closer he comes to winning the nomination (and God forbid if he's running in the general election), the more blatantly they'll try to tip the scales against him. I've never been a big Sanders guy for various reasons, but I googled it and I'm not legally allowed to drag Russ Feingold out of his house and force him to run for president so Sanders is where I'm at for the moment unless my time machine research pays off and I'm able to age AOC to 35 in the next few months (fingers crossed). I think it's good we have a bunch of center-right assholes and one or two semi-leftists because eventually they're going to have to eat their own. No matter how much they want to attack Sanders they're going to have to fight for their centrist spot against everyone else who wants that lane.
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Apr 5, 2019 06:04
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Uncle Wemus posted:Tim Kaine is still a weird pick for VP to me. She was literally just paying him back for a political favor.
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Apr 5, 2019 06:05
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bird cooch posted:There's a missed signal here. I think it's weird that it's a thing to release their tax information because I think it's something that we should know from the get-go.
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Apr 5, 2019 06:07
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I feel like a subforum-wide political compass test would help clarify things here.
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Apr 5, 2019 06:08
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The Kingfish posted:She was literally just paying him back for a political favor. I figured it was."Spanish-speaking purple-state ticket-gender-balancing lickspittle", but "as a favor" also makes a ton of sense. Is Lee Carter 35? Virginias bestest boy for veep!
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Apr 5, 2019 06:24
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Pander posted:I figured it was."Spanish-speaking purple-state ticket-gender-balancing lickspittle", but "as a favor" also makes a ton of sense. Probably a touch of both, triangulating themselves into a terrible choice no one likes is also extremely on brand for Dems in general and Clinton in particular.
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Apr 5, 2019 06:29
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Uncle Wemus posted:Tim Kaine is still a weird pick for VP to me. You have to put yourself in Clinton’s mindset. Anything with any probable risk has been ruled out by the consultants as “too dangerous”, so you’re left with safest and blandest option on any choice. Hence human stock photo of a stepdad Tim Kaine.
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Apr 5, 2019 07:11
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bird cooch posted:There's a missed signal here. I think it's weird that it's a thing to release their tax information because I think it's something that we should know from the get-go. This is great and all, but almost all of your focus on this topic has been trained on Bernie and none of the other candidates. You can see why that makes your concern seem more than a little disingenuous, right?
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Apr 5, 2019 07:27
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Majorian posted:This is great and all, but almost all of your focus on this topic has been trained on Bernie and none of the other candidates. You can see why that makes your concern seem more than a little disingenuous, right? He is the front-runner. The democrats in congress are attempting to get Trump's tax returns. There's no situation where he makes it to the general and doesn't have to show his tax returns as well. Is it stupid to compare Trump's tax returns to Bernie's given vastly different circumstances? Obviously. Does it make the slightest sense twitter people find Bernie's tax returns of key interest? gently caress no. But might as well just get it over with and appears that's what he's doing later this month.
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Apr 5, 2019 07:38
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KingNastidon posted:He is the front-runner. The democrats in congress are attempting to get Trump's tax returns. There's no situation where he makes it to the general and doesn't have to show his tax returns as well. But that doesn’t really address my point, does it? I want Bernie to release his tax returns too, and I fully expect him to later this month - in no small part because, if his appearance on The Daily Show tonight is any indication, he intends to use it as a talking point in the general against Trump. So he’s promised he’s going to do this, and has set a loose deadline. A lot of his competitors haven’t - yet they seem to get no scrutiny, either from the centrists here or the mainstream media. It’s almost as if there’s a double standard at work...
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Apr 5, 2019 07:55
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Majorian posted:But that doesn’t really address my point, does it? I want Bernie to release his tax returns too, and I fully expect him to later this month - in no small part because, if his appearance on The Daily Show tonight is any indication, he intends to use it as a talking point in the general against Trump. So he’s promised he’s going to do this, and has set a loose deadline. A lot of his competitors haven’t - yet they seem to get no scrutiny, either from the centrists here or the mainstream media. It’s almost as if there’s a double standard at work... And there always will be that double standard, be it on taxes or policy or whatever else. Partly because he has the most ambitious platform that requires more discussion than saying he will do nothing and partly because that platform is a direct threat to the class interests of many in the media. Rather than just hem and haw about the unfairness, just demand Sanders play along to be successful and then he and his campaign surrogates should endlessly reiterate that any other serious candidates needs to do the same. It also nullifies criticisms against his policies if other candidates can't provide a similar depth of information.
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Apr 5, 2019 08:16
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KingNastidon posted:Rather than just hem and haw about the unfairness, just demand Sanders play along to be successful This goes back to the "we don't have access to the red phone that dials right to the Sanders campaign" thing that I posted the last time you were demanding the Sanders campaign cater to your every whim at a moment's notice. I'm not sure how a bunch of people on SA going  "I DEMAND SANDERS RELEASE HIS RETURNS" accomplishes anything. He will release them, there is nothing anyone here can do to alter the timetable of when that happens, so constantly bringing it up comes across as smearing.
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Apr 5, 2019 08:30
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WampaLord posted:This goes back to the "we don't have access to the red phone that dials right to the Sanders campaign" thing that I posted the last time you were demanding the Sanders campaign cater to your every whim at a moment's notice. And we also don't have the red phone to "the media" to tell them to be nicer to Mr. Bernie, so what's the difference or value in complaining about that as well? Just to lay the groundwork for an excuse if Sanders doesn't win for whatever reason? The best you can do is argue for Sanders to release his tax returns ASAP given the reality we can't change. There isn't that much of a consensus here as to when that should or if at all given it would be seen as giving in to bad faith attacks that aren't lobbied at other candidates and open himself up to criticism. I think that's silly because lack of action isn't going to stop those attacks, and they'll still continue afterwards on another issue regardless of what he does. But at least he can say he's addressing them and use that to his advantage.
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Apr 5, 2019 08:57
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KingNastidon posted:And we also don't have the red phone to "the media" to tell them to be nicer to Mr. Bernie, so what's the difference or value in complaining about that as well? I'm not telling "the media" to stop, I'm telling goons in this thread to stop, that is the difference, genius. KingNastidon posted:The best you can do is argue for Sanders to release his tax returns ASAP given the reality we can't change. Okay, I think everyone's in agreement on this argument, so why keep bringing it up? *clicks the ? under user name* oh right, we all know why.
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Apr 5, 2019 09:02
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I, for one, find it slightly curious that the only candidate that's being hounded to prove that he's not secretly greedy and corrupt is the Jewish guy.Badger of Basra posted:I for one am scandalized that people who disagree with Bernie are trying to stop him from winning Cool that we apparently don't even try to pretend that the media should adhere to journalistic standards anymore.
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Apr 5, 2019 09:07
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Cerebral Bore posted:I, for one, find it slightly curious that the only candidate that's being hounded to prove that he's not secretly greedy and corrupt is the Jewish guy. If the standard conjured from the ether to apply to Bernie are any indication, it's pretty clear centrists never cared about any of those standards except as a way to enforce their ideology.
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Apr 5, 2019 10:26
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Like please find for me the quote of any goon saying "I think Bernie should not release his tax returns and break his promise, that would be good" and we can put this all to bed. "He should really release them" "I agree" "But why hasn't he done it yet?" "I dunno, it's April and many other candidates haven't done it yet?" "But it's really important he releases them right now" "What do you expect the thread to do about it?" "Demand for him to release his returns!" "Okay, we agree, he should release them" "So why hasn't he yet?" and on and on and on and on and on until the heat death of the universe.
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Apr 5, 2019 10:44
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Centrists never argue in good faith why should they start now? The tax controversy is absolutely pulled out of the ether and another standard that only applies to Sanders. Also anyone that thinks Biden is primed to go toe to toe with Trump is an idiot. https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1113923632512761857?s=19 Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 12:09 on Apr 5, 2019 |
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Apr 5, 2019 10:53
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joepinetree posted:Wait, so it doesn't set a reimbursement rate, just sets about amount with a maximum allowed increase? I wonder what we should call "set price that colleges must abide by with maximum increases" The point is that it isn't actually pressuring tuition prices to be lower. It is keeping them the same as they currently are. Tuitions now are too high. Although the fact that Bernie's bill prevents the government money from being spend on non-educational stuff at colleges (more administrators, new gyms, new sports stadiums) is good. quote:Also it seems like a loss for society if better philosophers and musicians are being wasted flipping burgers Encouraging more people to become philosophy professors and bassoon players will mostly create more mediocre philosophy professors and bassoon players. Unlike, say an accountant, where you can be mediocre at your job and still make some kind of contribution to society, mediocre philosophers and bassoon players aren't really adding a whole lot. IMO, it is smarter to spend the government money on things which matter more to the lives of Americans like public housing, improved health care, and so on.
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Apr 5, 2019 12:07
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silence_kit posted:Encouraging more people to become philosophy professors and bassoon players will mostly create more mediocre philosophy professors and bassoon players. Unlike, say an accountant, where you can be mediocre at your job and still make some kind of contribution to society, mediocre philosophers and bassoon players aren't really adding a whole lot. What an amazingly lovely position to take. Just because capitalism doesn’t value the worth someone brings to society doesn’t mean they’re societally worthless.
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Apr 5, 2019 12:17
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Just yesterday you were saying someone made a good argument that universities open up the minds of red state students. I guess these kinda ideas have to be laid out for you step by step but philosophy has a similar effect. The whole point of philosophy is to teach rational and critical thinking. To challenge assumptions. And you don’t need the best drat philosophy professors on earth to help a kid learn to think. Mediocre works too! Of course, since they don’t provide immediately tangible benefits to capitalism you immediately think of them as societally worthless
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Apr 5, 2019 12:26
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Also, your implication that increasing accessibility to education would just result in average quality people pouring into fields makes it clear you believe our current educational system is completely meritocratic and that there’s no chance that someone of talent might not currently be able to have access to these fields
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Apr 5, 2019 12:36
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Imagine caring about lessoning the "quality" of students when a month ago people heads were exploded by the realization rich people paid elite schools to get in their kids.
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Apr 5, 2019 12:41
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Liberals have been carefully, painstakingly educated to reflexively defend elitist institutions without understanding why they're doing it.
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Apr 5, 2019 12:42
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https://twitter.com/lyftrs/status/1113606958127382529?s=19 Butt Sr. For President
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Apr 5, 2019 12:45
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Between this and Kamala Harris, what the hey
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Apr 5, 2019 12:46
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VitalSigns posted:Also it seems like a loss for society if better philosophers and musicians are being wasted flipping burgers although I suppose the response I'll get will be "poor people are genetically too stupid and oafish to offer anything in refined fields anyway" silence_kit posted:Encouraging more people to become philosophy professors and bassoon players will mostly create more mediocre philosophy professors and bassoon players. VitalSigns posted:I'm always amused by the kind of snotty liberal who wails about the non-college-educated voters putting Trump in office yet when it comes to policies ameliorating that their classism kicks in and they can't make the connection between Democrats doing well with college educated voters and increasing the ranks of the college-educated.
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Apr 5, 2019 12:47
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Family Ties was a documentary.
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Apr 5, 2019 12:49
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Condiv posted:What an amazingly lovely position to take. Just because capitalism doesn’t value the worth someone brings to society doesn’t mean they’re societally worthless. Don't blame capitalism, blame mass communication technology and public opinion. Blame it on the idea of democracy. People don't want to listen to mediocre bassoon players or read mediocre technical articles on philosophy, when they can easily listen to or read stuff from the best. Condiv posted:Also, your implication that increasing accessibility to education would just result in average quality people pouring into fields makes it clear you believe our current educational system is completely meritocratic and that there’s no chance that someone of talent might not currently be able to have access to these fields It might create a few more talented bassoon players and 'professional philosophers'. But like 99% or more of it will just be more mediocre bassoon players and philosophy professors. Also, unless you fund a bassoon player and philosopher government jobs program, you are getting a lot of these students' hopes up. It is hard to make a living in these areas. You really have to be the best to have any shot at it. It is very delusional to think that being a professional bassoon player or 'philosopher' is just like a normal job like maybe an accountant, where you can be average, and still make some kind of difference in other people's lives. (Maybe accountant is the wrong example, since in this thread, cost is usually no object, so maybe accountants are superfluous and don't have much to add to society)
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Apr 5, 2019 12:51
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Of course the first black president is going to be held to a different standard than anyone else, instead of whining about it he should just release his birth certificate to put all this controversy behind him.
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Apr 5, 2019 12:53
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silence_kit posted:Don't blame capitalism, Nah, we're gonna blame the hell out of capitalism.
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Apr 5, 2019 13:02
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silence_kit posted:
Those odds are worth it. The benefit to society from finding one extra Einstein or Mozart or Hume or Stokes vastly outweighs the cost of teaching an extra million people physics or music or philosophy or mathematics. Even if the benefit of teaching those other people were zero, which it isn't, because by doing it you've still created a larger population who appreciates the work of an Einstein, a Hume, etc., (and also since you're so obsessed with capitalism, created a larger ~~~market demand~~~ for their works) 
VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 13:05 on Apr 5, 2019 |
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Apr 5, 2019 13:02
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Man, there's been a whole lot of "but I got a degree and it's not fair if all of those non college people I see as beneath me flipping burgers can also go get a degree!" these last several pages.
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Apr 5, 2019 13:04
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https://twitter.com/IHateNYT/status/1113916699445743626
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Apr 5, 2019 13:11
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I love how yesterday this guy got a glimmer of a clue when someone pointed out that universal education would help team blue beat team red at the ballot box, but that couldn't even hold for 12 hours and it's back to "but a degree would make peasants my equals  "
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Apr 5, 2019 13:12
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VitalSigns posted:I love how yesterday this guy got a glimmer of a clue when someone pointed out that universal education would help team blue beat team red at the ballot box, but that couldn't even hold for 12 hours and it's back to "but a degree would make peasants my equals They'd rather be the Noble Resistance than give up their privilege.
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Apr 5, 2019 13:15
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https://mobile.twitter.com/lizcgoodwin/status/1114136559505367040 Good.
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Apr 5, 2019 13:18
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silence_kit posted:Don't blame capitalism, blame mass communication technology and public opinion. Blame it on the idea of democracy. People don't want to listen to mediocre bassoon players or read mediocre technical articles on philosophy, when they can easily listen to or read stuff from the best. Most people lack the capability to actually claim some bassoon player is the best vs merely mediocre. Furthermore, beyond technical ability (which while important for musicians, on its own doesn’t elevate one beyond mediocre) you have a lot of purely subjective measures of a musicians’ performance that will make one person think “this bassoonist is the best” while another thinks “this bassoonist’s performance is too stiff and lifeless” Also, I’m very much gonna fault capitalism since the number of well paid positions in a field is the only way a fool like you could possibly claim to know the societal worth of increasing the number of people in that field. quote:It might create a few more talented bassoon players and 'professional philosophers'. But like 99% or more of it will just be more mediocre bassoon players and philosophy professors. Also, unless you fund a bassoon player and philosopher government jobs program, you are getting a lot of these students' hopes up. It is hard to make a living in these areas. You really have to be the best to have any shot at it. Gee I wonder why “it’s hard to make a living in these areas” plays such a role in your arguments. Could it be because you’re judging the societal worth of fields based off of a broken capitalist system’s valuation of that field? Wonder why you don’t want me to blame capitalism for your lovely opinions quote:It is very delusional to think that being a professional bassoon player or 'philosopher' is just like a normal job like maybe an accountant, where you can be average, and still make some kind of difference in other people's lives. (Maybe accountant is the wrong example, since in this thread, cost is usually no object, so maybe accountants are superfluous and don't have much to add to society) A mediocre philosophy professor could indeed make a difference in a kid’s life. A mediocre bassoonist could inspire others to become great bassoonists. Let’s go ahead and replace “make some kind of difference in other people’s lives” with “satisfy the unending need for profits of our capitalist system” since you very clearly don’t mean the first.
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Apr 5, 2019 13:21
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does anybody on earth actually give a poo poo about any candidates tax returns???
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Apr 5, 2019 13:31
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to really drive the point home on the "mediocre people can't make a difference in people's lives" pablum you're spouting silence_kit, I'm almost certain my violin teacher is mediocre. She teaches in a conservatoire in a small town, her lessons don't cost much (comparatively), and she drives a beat up car. however she's made a difference in my life. While she may not be the best of the best, she's more than enough to teach a beginner like me, and has helped me immensely. according to you, I should just learn from Lucia Micarelli and I'm just wasting my time. But a poor schmuck like me could barely afford a $90 violin, how would I afford lessons from the best of the best? and even if I could afford them, would she be available to teach a nobody beginner like me? just because capitalism treats people who are not the cream of the crop like absolute poo poo in many fields does not mean their contribution to society is worthless or that there shouldn't be more people in that field. capitalism is a broken-rear end system that's currently destroying the planet. what it considers valuable and what it considers valueless are very clearly not related to the reality of this world or our species
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Apr 5, 2019 13:32
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