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Biggus Dickus posted:I had a letter asking if I could spare £100. I could, this article in the Eye kinda puts me off: hmm if only there was a case in recent history where hiring a lot of "Obama-style community organisers" had paid off 
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Apr 5, 2019 17:57
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dispatch_async posted:Isn't 'ratbiter' Nick Cohen? That is correct, yes.
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Apr 5, 2019 17:57
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What exactly is the objection to hiring local activists?
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Apr 5, 2019 17:59
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WhatEvil posted:The FT is "left-wing" in the sense that it doesn't just uncritically repeat the same right-wing rhetoric that the other papers do. Apropos of nothing I love how this thread has radicalised you into a fire breathing leftist
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Apr 5, 2019 17:59
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Barry Foster posted:Apropos of nothing I love how this thread has radicalised you into a fire breathing leftist For real, leftism never came up back in the Knifeback Mountain days.
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Apr 5, 2019 18:03
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Yes, indeed.
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Apr 5, 2019 18:05
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Azza Bamboo posted:What exactly is the objection to hiring local activists? it's hard to articulate what the party, as an organization, is supposed to get out of the affiliation it is paying for it's always the party footing the bill in this dynamic, mind - it's only very rarely "we, the successful local NGO, have decided that donating our resources to a Labour banner is the best way to advance our cause"
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Apr 5, 2019 18:05
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Biggus Dickus posted:I had a letter asking if I could spare £100. I could, this article in the Eye kinda puts me off: The staff in Labour HQ were said to be sabotaging Corbyn, eg instead of launching the voter registration campaign he wanted they just made it appear to his Facebook that they had. So I'm not too bothered about him setting up a parallel structure. Not keen on the highest wage levels, certainly, but looking at other organizations, those could be worse. And lots of community organizers campaigning for socialism are absolutely what we need, and no it should not be MPs' job, they have too much else to do.
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Apr 5, 2019 18:07
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Surely it's Corbyn managing Labour's image against the Tory supporting press and using professionals to do so rather than hoping MPs of varying effectiveness will do it for him?
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Apr 5, 2019 18:10
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That price tag for the organisers seems high but I suppose a lot of it is infrastructure to support them because the salaries are nice but not crazy. Honestly that's some pisspoor accusations of financial squandering, hiring staff aimed at connecting with voters locally and paying some staff too much.
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Apr 5, 2019 18:11
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Re: declaring Seaside Loafer as dead, I'd have waited a bit more than 6 days of no reply before doing so. Sick people can spend weeks or months away from their regular internet world, and ignore emails etc. I know, as I've done the same many times over the years. I'm hoping that the news isn't true, but RIP if it is. If he isn't, and comes back to a permabanned account and lots of RIP messages, then that could be totally devastating for him.
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Apr 5, 2019 18:13
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There was some fat gently caress on the news saying that 17.4 million Britons voted to leave the EU and we should just go and do that as it's the majority opinion. What about the 28.4 million that didn't?
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Apr 5, 2019 18:14
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goomsnarr posted:There was some fat gently caress on the news saying that 17.4 million Britons voted to leave the EU and we should just go and do that as it's the majority opinion. sadly that's not how elections work
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Apr 5, 2019 18:15
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the need for a meaningfully subordinate and hierarchical parallel structure to keep the boring tasks done is legit for any meaningful political movement, and it's why Momentum exists today as muscle, and New Labour's coterie of ad hoc agencies, working groups, and think tanks before it (of course - having acknowledged that - it is worth examining why we apparently all entertain the consensus toward federated party committee elections... but that is another story) of course, "you're here to advance our factional politics" is the label on the tin of Momentum, and decidedly not so for other things, and the pretending-to-be-what-it's-not has a decidedly corrupting effect
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Apr 5, 2019 18:17
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Also what britain are you living in that only has 45m people in it?
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Apr 5, 2019 18:19
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OwlFancier posted:Also what britain are you living in that only has 45m people in it? I thought we have 45m registered voters? Or was it voting age people?
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Apr 5, 2019 18:20
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Voting age doesn't seem right given that that'd mean people under 18 are a third of the population. And registered or not still means they probably have an opinion.
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Apr 5, 2019 18:21
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All the rest are Polish Muslims that can't vote  Did anyone buy that ham emote that Pesky Splinter made?
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Apr 5, 2019 18:33
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OwlFancier posted:Voting age doesn't seem right given that that'd mean people under 18 are a third of the population. And registered or not still means they probably have an opinion. I think I found where the number came from: 45.8m was the number of people on the electoral roll in 2016 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40178571
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Apr 5, 2019 18:39
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fuctifino posted:Re: declaring Seaside Loafer as dead, I'd have waited a bit more than 6 days of no reply before doing so. Sick people can spend weeks or months away from their regular internet world, and ignore emails etc. I know, as I've done the same many times over the years. I'm hoping that the news isn't true, but RIP if it is. Fluo still hasn't been perma'd and it's been over three years. Besides, I think Loafer would be more likely to come back, thank us for the nice thoughts, then call us a bunch of dildos.
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Apr 5, 2019 18:40
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https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1114221560108285959 Whatever that means...
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Apr 5, 2019 18:52
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Jedit posted:Fluo still hasn't been perma'd and it's been over three years. Besides, I think Loafer would be more likely to come back, thank us for the nice thoughts, then call us a bunch of dildos. Here's hoping that Loafer will come back and call us all a bunch of dildos. x
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Apr 5, 2019 18:55
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Biggus Dickus posted:I had a letter asking if I could spare £100. I could, this article in the Eye kinda puts me off: POlitical party spends funds on campaigning is news, apparently.
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Apr 5, 2019 18:58
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Biggus Dickus posted:I had a letter asking if I could spare £100. I could, this article in the Eye kinda puts me off: Every party has local organisers and they are very important. Not sure about the big boys but reckon their salaries are comparable, if not the rises. Also sincerely doubt Labour are skint. They are fundraising ahead of a potential election and organisers are one of the best ways to spend that money.
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Apr 5, 2019 19:00
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thespaceinvader posted:POlitical party spends funds on campaigning is news, apparently. Needless to say, political parties shouldn't have to spend money. They should win the support of the right wing media through policy changes and taking money in. No wait, yeah, hiring staff and paying them is fine.
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Apr 5, 2019 19:03
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fuctifino posted:If he isn't, and comes back to a permabanned account and lots of RIP messages, then that could be totally devastating for him. Don't have loads of time to post but I've been around this thread quite a long time and Fuctifino is a is a man who knows on this topic.
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Apr 5, 2019 19:04
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I love whoever bought the ad for the landlord thread now it's locked.
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Apr 5, 2019 19:07
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that 'article' is almost definitely entirely inaccurate so it's kind of irrelevant to comment on its content also I hope Loafer is still going and he's only stopped posting because he was miraculously cured and in the process realised the futility of posting but if he has passed, RIP fella
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Apr 5, 2019 19:08
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I like Private Eye but that article is really struggling to find something be offended by.
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Apr 5, 2019 19:11
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Biggus Dickus posted:I had a letter asking if I could spare £100. I could, this article in the Eye kinda puts me off: "Ratbiter" is the pseudonym for Nick Cohen, a rabidly anti-Corbyn, pro Iraq war ghoul who has a number of rumours around him being a lecherous creep.
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Apr 5, 2019 19:20
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The size of the brain needed to argue that it's terrible a political party is hiring people to do political work
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Apr 5, 2019 19:27
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Jedit posted:That is correct, yes. I suppose "Turtle-faced ratfucker" as a pseudonym would have given the game away.
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Apr 5, 2019 19:30
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Gonzo McFee posted:"Ratbiter" is the pseudonym for Nick Cohen, a rabidly anti-Corbyn, pro Iraq war ghoul who has a number of rumours around him being a lecherous creep. yeah, this guy is a Euston manifesto twat. He's not a big fan of corbs as a result
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Apr 5, 2019 19:32
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Ms Adequate posted:The size of the brain needed to argue that it's terrible a political party is hiring people to do political work It's labour movement 101 stuff that organising work should be done by those elected from their peers and returning to them after a set period. This is the basic demand of any rank and file democratising campaign, which is what many on the left of the party thought corbynism was. In other words Labour Party organisers should be elected by the party for a term, not appointed to permanent posts. I know that's not what happened in the Blair years. That's kind of my point. This is precisely the sort of poo poo that ensures for years the membership weren't in control of the day to day functioning of the party. The only difference now is the bureaucrats are corbynesque in politics rather than Blairites. Its still completely undemocratic. Then there's the issue of taking an average Workers wage, also a pretty entry level demand.
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Apr 5, 2019 19:41
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fuctifino posted:Here's hoping that Loafer will come back and call us all a bunch of dildos. x https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kujo7V9m0gk
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Apr 5, 2019 19:43
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Azza Bamboo posted:What exactly is the objection to hiring local activists? They won't badmouth the leader of the party they're trying to get you to vote for, apparently also if a Corbyn advisor is seconded to Labour's complaints unit, why wouldn't they be a representative of Corbyn's office, that's what seconding is
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Apr 5, 2019 19:52
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quote:Meanwhile, the shadow Brexit secretary, Keir Starmer, said that the government was refusing to countenance changes to the political declaration negotiated with Brussels.  what the gently caress's wrong with her
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Apr 5, 2019 19:54
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I’ve been helping out at a campaign run by one of the community organisers. They’re all in marginal target constituencies and are running effective campaigns to get the PPCs elected. Often, as with the one I work with, they’re income matched with a union, so the party is only paying half their wage.
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Apr 5, 2019 19:55
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We have a paid community organizer in my CLP now and I can't understate how important it is to have someone actually on the payroll to engage members and do the ground work of selecting council candidates, running trainings, making sure admin work is done etc. It's all work that volunteers have done in the past, but volunteer numbers wax and wane over time (more near elections, fewer when nothing's really happening).. and I'm in a marginal. They'll be even more essential in places that are safer Tory, but could be surprise wins during a GE if they actually have dedicated people to organize.
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Apr 5, 2019 19:58
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OrthoTrot posted:It's labour movement 101 stuff that organising work should be done by those elected from their peers and returning to them after a set period. This is the basic demand of any rank and file democratising campaign, which is what many on the left of the party thought corbynism was. Ehhh I guess I get where you're coming from here, more democratisation is very much what Labour's core principles are about after all. I would definitely prefer if they weren't permanent posts, all else aside. But I just can't get too worked up about a party trying to get itself elected by hiring people who will do the hard graft in organization; even when you have people with the will to do that, having the skills is another matter entirely. I could - were I healthy - do plenty of things if someone pointed and said "Go hand out these leaflets" or whatever, but I sure as hell couldn't decide what those leaflets should look like or where we should distribute them or how we could measure how effective they are proving*. No amount of zeal for Corbyn as a person or his policies is going to grant that knowledge and experience. * This is a falsehood, they would just say "Fully Automated Luxury Gay Space Communism Today!" and the entire planet would be swamped with a trillion of them.
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Apr 5, 2019 20:06
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