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Sulphagnist posted:I also didn't quite agree with the Biden analysis. I think Biden should be attacked on both the "he's a creep" and "he's a horrible politician with bad policies and a terrible record" fronts. Like they said themselves Biden's shine is from his two terms as Obama's VP - and you can't really fight that kind of appeal with policy arguments. Yeah. Amber might be right that Biden's supporters don't care about him being a creep, but they definitely don't care about goofy Uncle Joe's actual policies.
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Apr 10, 2019 05:55
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People who uncritically support a candidate will not be swayed by any argument, you need to go after the undecided voter, and there are probably some of those who would be swayed by his creepiness more than his politics. Attack both.
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Apr 10, 2019 06:08
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Amber is absolutely right actually, anyone who could be persuaded against Biden on the basis of him being gropey has likely already turned against him at this point, you need to show how the undecided voter is gonna get materially hosed over by him.
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Apr 10, 2019 06:14
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Sulphagnist posted:I also didn't quite agree with the Biden analysis. I think Biden should be attacked on both the "he's a creep" and "he's a horrible politician with bad policies and a terrible record" fronts. Like they said themselves Biden's shine is from his two terms as Obama's VP - and you can't really fight that kind of appeal with policy arguments. counterpoint: it'd almost be worth biden getting the nomination just to see the look on al franken's face
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Apr 10, 2019 07:12
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Nah Amber's analysis is correct. simply pointing out that these people are horrific to women is insufficient to keep them from power - see Kavanaugh. It also cuts much more against left politicians who have at least some shame and still believe in rules somehow and so will resign in the face of sexual misconduct whereas conservative psychos don't give a gently caress. The battle has to be on how they're evil and have bad policies and ours are better, or personality, or something more compelling than me too. And if you're saying that stuff doesnt matter you've just given up the fight
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Apr 10, 2019 08:37
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One was a government hearing, controlled by Republicans though, while the other is ostensibly a democratic primary. I don't think the same influences will necessarily lead to the same outcomes in those scenarios. That said, yes I can imagine a vocal Resistance-y opposition to him falling apart after his groping issues are brushed past, without following up with any substantive or effectual criticisms, a la Trump, so I understand that fear. But what should be done, then- don't bring up the many hilarious pics of him looming over uncomfortable women?
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Apr 10, 2019 09:20
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UP AND ADAM posted:One was a government hearing, controlled by Republicans though, while the other is ostensibly a democratic primary. I don't think the same influences will necessarily lead to the same outcomes in those scenarios. Yeah if only we had a recent example of a guy credibly accused of multiple serious sexual assaults running for president. You'd imagine he'd be so repellant that most people, and certainly almost no women, would vote for him. Maybe not a presidential election, that's too far fetched. What about a Senate race where a candidate is a pedophile rapist who abused a position of power and authority to enable his attacks. Surely that would be a blowout in the era of me too; no way that guy is getting any votes
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Apr 10, 2019 10:42
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Moore lost his election for exactly that reason, so I'm not sure your point is as strong as you think it is
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Apr 10, 2019 11:52
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I said that the anti-Trump tactic was not a winning one, though to be fair (1) it was Hillary as the candidate and (2) her campaign team seemed to enjoy loving up, so absent those factors she still could have won.
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Apr 10, 2019 12:08
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Honestly if not for the stupid Comey letter, the Access Hollywood tape should have killed Trump, his poll numbers were flatlining after it came out, but Hillary had to rally to lock down the title of worst possible candidate in history. I think the whole "attack him on being a groper/no, attack him on having terrible policies" conversation becomes a moot point after the debates start anyway, because he'll be attacked by the other candidates for his record at the debates while he's being attacked for being Creepy Uncle Joe by the press because they love scandals. Both will happen, and more importantly, as they acknowledged, the whole situation is still funny as hell. We demand more memes of Biden groping anime girls! Amber is right that a certain type of younger dude is blown away by how common this was, and it's like, come on, don't be so loving naive. Old men (and even more sadly, a lot of older women) see literally nothing wrong with Biden's behavior, if anything they view it as chivalrous that he doesn't just shove his tongue down their throats, as is his right as a white male landowner. WampaLord fucked around with this message at 12:20 on Apr 10, 2019 |
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Apr 10, 2019 12:17
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Yeah that part definitely rang true. But I'm not like those other young men and I have an erudite socialist perspective on things!
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Apr 10, 2019 12:30
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There's enough time until people start actually voting to slam him for being a creep and having dogshit policy. Though it is annoying that the groping poo poo has completely drowned out literally everything other than Bernies tax returns.
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Apr 10, 2019 13:09
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The creep thing isn't going to be enough to kill Biden. But it might lessen enthusiasm, turn off some undecideds, and force Biden supporters to address a negative before they can talk about positives. So we still need to attack him on it
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Apr 10, 2019 13:19
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Henchman of Santa posted:Yeah. Amber might be right that Biden's supporters don't care about him being a creep, but they definitely don't care about goofy Uncle Joe's actual policies.
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Apr 10, 2019 14:53
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Advisors also think that is good!
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Apr 10, 2019 17:42
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In which case, voters will be reminded that he's not Diamond Joe from the Onion articles every time he opens his mouth.
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Apr 10, 2019 17:58
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multijoe posted:Moore lost his election for exactly that reason, so I'm not sure your point is as strong as you think it is Nah, Moore didn’t lose because of people voting against him because of his proclivities. The black population barred him from getting it because he was a shithead racist.
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Apr 10, 2019 18:42
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he also BARELY lost
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Apr 10, 2019 18:45
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yeah moore got 72 percent of white men and 63 percent of white women (lmao) https://twitter.com/robrousseau/status/1116053326666317826
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Apr 10, 2019 20:19
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There are definitely some decorum and civility fetishists who can be turned off Biden by his sexual harassment (and didn't know about it yet), but I'm imagining it's not that many nationwide, and Amber sure doesn't give a gently caress about them. It has to be all middle-aged white people who were on political cruise control during Obama It's slightly disheartening that the immediate response to his candidacy has not been more driven by his support of awful policies, but for the moment, there's time
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Apr 10, 2019 20:35
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Boywhiz88 posted:Nah, Moore didn’t lose because of people voting against him because of his proclivities. The black population barred him from getting it because he was a shithead racist. Moore was the first racist white guy to run for Senate in Alabama? Tim Burns Effect posted:he also BARELY lost But he did lose, in a state which has voted straight Republican for 20 years. I wouldn't chalk it up to any single thing though the huge organising effort by the state's black community obviously went a long way, but voter turnout among white voters was down too. It seems a fair number of people who'd otherwise vote republican stayed at home rather than vote for Moore, which I doubt would be the case if he weren't a literal child molestor.
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Apr 10, 2019 20:53
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it seems like you can say 'multiple women women say this guy is a real creep' and 'his policies are bad' at the same time? Here, let me try it: This guy's policies are awful--plus, he's a real creep! This idea that you shouldn't "waste time" on pointing out Biden's sex-pestiness implies some real strange things about time management.
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Apr 10, 2019 23:12
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Captain Queernabs posted:it seems like you can say 'multiple women women say this guy is a real creep' and 'his policies are bad' at the same time? Here, let me try it: You can have an infinite number of horrible things to say about somebody, but they just make a cloud of noise and the shithead got elected president anyway. It's important to focus your message.
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Apr 10, 2019 23:17
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https://twitter.com/KrangTNelson/status/1116397834180411392?s=19
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Apr 11, 2019 19:01
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What was it?
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Apr 11, 2019 19:06
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Amber is so incoherent and every time she appears in the show I think about ending my patreon. She thinks Biden is fine and that degrowth means degrowing the third world but also socialism in one country is a viable thing.
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Apr 11, 2019 19:55
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MatildaTheHun posted:Amber is so incoherent and every time she appears in the show I think about ending my patreon. She thinks Biden is fine and that degrowth means degrowing the third world but also socialism in one country is a viable thing. She doesn't think any of those things but you do you
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Apr 11, 2019 19:58
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"She thinks Biden is fine" found the person who can't understand nuance or... even anything at all.
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Apr 11, 2019 19:58
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MatildaTheHun posted:Amber is so incoherent and every time she appears in the show I think about ending my patreon. She thinks Biden is fine and that degrowth means degrowing the third world but also socialism in one country is a viable thing. get a load of galaxy brain over here E: hell yeah the simultaneous triple dunk
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Apr 11, 2019 19:59
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MatildaTheHun posted:I think about ending my patreon. how long have u been thinking about this https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3783133&userid=178835
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Apr 11, 2019 20:01
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It's like that guy who came in here saying they didn't like Contra Points because of stuff they had heard second hand she said in a video they didn't watch that she didn't actually say. Lotta people mad about leftist ladies for things they didn't say...
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Apr 11, 2019 20:04
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Hey dudes, she was the only one saying that Biden isn't about to get completely dunked on and repeatedly said he isn't a cock, as though that's a good thing. And again, degrowth, as in negative GDP grown is critical to fighting climate change and burning synthetic fuel still releases carbon! Amber is the furthest right of the crew, aside from maybe Virgil but his personal politics aren't on display all that much. That's why I don't like her, and it's pretty wild I'm already being called a sexist for criticizing a pro Biden stalinist E: oh and I wonder if the guy saying I don't understand nuance will launderette the nuance that I don't really mean Amber is going to vote for Biden :^) MatildaTheHun fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Apr 11, 2019 |
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Apr 11, 2019 20:07
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MatildaTheHun posted:Hey dudes, she was the only one saying that Biden isn't about to get completely dunked on and repeatedly said he isn't a cock, as though that's a good thing. And again, degrowth, as in negative GDP grown is critical to fighting climate change and burning synthetic fuel still releases carbon! amber's take on biden was that he wasn't gonna get metoo'd out of the race because lots of people are terrible, and she seems to be largely right she's also probably the furthest left of any of them except for maybe matt?
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Apr 11, 2019 20:11
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MatildaTheHun posted:Hey dudes, she was the only one saying that Biden isn't about to get completely dunked on and repeatedly said he isn't a cock, as though that's a good thing. And again, degrowth, as in negative GDP grown is critical to fighting climate change and burning synthetic fuel still releases carbon! I do agree that it's unfair to say that you don't understand nuance. It seems more like you just don't understand sentences in general.
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Apr 11, 2019 20:13
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Gripweed posted:I do agree that it's unfair to say that you don't understand nuance. It seems more like you just don't understand sentences in general. The Woman Defender has logged in
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Apr 11, 2019 20:14
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Actually, I like that Amber is a pro-Biden Stalinist but like we all said before, I do think you're being sexist for pointing this out. Also warn us three or four more times as you waver on whether to cancel your patreon so we can talk you down from that cliff. Hope that covers everything.
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Apr 11, 2019 20:15
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Seriously do any of you know what degrowth is and how saying it's calling for degrowth in the global south is at best disingenuous and more than likely an outright lie? Oh I cancelled it, the reaction I got for this pretty milquetoast criticism kinda settled it. Enjoy stanning your cryptofash MatildaTheHun fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Apr 11, 2019 |
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Apr 11, 2019 20:15
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MatildaTheHun posted:Seriously do any of you know what degrowth is and how saying it's calling for degrowth in the global south is at best disingenuous and more than likely an outright lie? they say the exact opposite of this in the episode tho?
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Apr 11, 2019 20:18
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MatildaTheHun posted:Seriously do any of you know what degrowth is and how saying it's calling for degrowth in the global south is at best disingenuous and more than likely an outright lie? You've mischaracterized and misunderstood her positions to such an extent that nobody can understand or trust whatever the gently caress you're saying dude.
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Apr 11, 2019 20:18
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The very normal person who is editing their posts.
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Apr 11, 2019 20:20
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