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Snipee posted:Sadly, it looks like A is going to win. I only hope that we can at least agree that all of the reparations that our hardworking socialist workers had paid to Morocco after the Great War will be returned to our patriots with interest and that all transportable assets owned by the Moroccan looters, war criminals, and royal family must obviously be confiscated and shipped back to Iberia. I don’t care if this is ultimately going to impair the economy of our new Moroccan “allies”; the Almoravids must pay their debts in full. I'm assuming that Morocco ends up as our puppet, and in the latest versions of HoI4 you can exploit your puppets quite a bit.
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Apr 10, 2019 13:15
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Cerebral Bore posted:I'm assuming that Morocco ends up as our puppet, and in the latest versions of HoI4 you can exploit your puppets quite a bit. You can both take control of puppets' existing units and train units with their manpower, so assuming that whatever state or states have cores on their territory both A and B are roughly equivalent for exploitation purposes. Though A is maybe marginally better for the AI to produce enough equipment to actually train its own divisions (e: also there's only one nation needing to pass conscription laws, which could either be a blessing or a curse). In the end HOI AI is (to put it charitably) one step above braindead so we absolutely should take full control of their units and manpower regardless. Obliterati fucked around with this message at 13:41 on Apr 10, 2019 |
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Apr 10, 2019 13:32
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A, without a doubt. Partitions can always be undone by a pan-nationalist movement, while direct rule would be inefficient and might upset the locals. That said, let's try and make sure an unthreatening lickspittle gets put in charge so they don't get any ideas.
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Apr 10, 2019 13:50
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A: We will successfully liberate our Moroccan cousins from serfdom, take the straits, AND create a buffer state between us and Egypt/Benin. Nothing can go wrong but everything.
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Apr 10, 2019 14:02
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A Morroco was our friend in Crusader Kings and they will be again!
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Apr 10, 2019 14:03
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B because it should never again become questionable where the revolution in the west is directed from.
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Apr 10, 2019 14:23
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A! It's either the best choice or the worst choice, and either or is fine as far as my relation to the Shura and the Goon-mind is concerned.
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Apr 10, 2019 16:03
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Pacho posted:My heart wants to spread the revolution next to a strong communist North Africa, but as someone who's unfamiliar with HoI4 and considering that our faction is not the strongest one in a three-way war, what's the soundest mechanical choice? I know in EU4 sometimes is very convenient to have a March because you don't have to deal with non-accepted cultures, they have their own manpower pool, etc. What would be the difference between Big Allied Maghreb, Loads of Tiny Satellites and Occupation? One Big Maghreb has the advantage of putting all the resources in the area under one united government, so they can build the strongest possible army/industry/etc to help us with. The downside to this is that if they ever want to tell us to get hosed in a few years (which they very possibly might due to Hashim and narrative) they're now in the strongest position to resist us. Balkanizing the area will get us a bunch of individual weak states that probably aren't quite as good in aggregate as one big state would be, but it divides resistance against us. Full occupation is honestly the worst option, we'd maintain the territory we have now for our own personal use, but would need to waste Iberian men garrisoning it and occupied territory that's not our core has big penalties to how much manpower, industry, and resources it will provide to the conqueror, only the core owner can get full use out of it.
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Apr 10, 2019 16:15
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A United Iberia controlling the strait It's finally happening, after all these years It took like four hellwars and a communist revolution, but we finally did it
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Apr 10, 2019 16:28
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A, shoot the capitalists and aristocrats and put Morocco into the hands of the workers!
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Apr 10, 2019 17:20
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How's reconstruction going to actually go in the Maghreb? Like how are we gonna make sure all the capitalists have been shot and the nobles garroted in this new state? Is this in any way related to how we're probably gonna be keeping Iberian troops in the region anyways to keep an eye on the Beninese border/fight Egypt?
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Apr 10, 2019 17:25
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Since I'm guessing that an A or B vote would exclude Algiers and Tunisia, then I have to vote C. The rational 'playing HOI4 correctly' thing to do would be to take the three steel-producing states along the coast (not just one state closest to the strait!) and leave the useless interior to a puppet, similar to how a Japanese player or the Japanese AI carves up Nationalist China. https://imgur.com/a/ObtHDbj But I suspect that worldwide factory distribution has been heavily changed in this mod, so their former capital state would likely be worth holding directly too. Have resources (such as Portuguese land having hilarious tungsten, certain countries that should be major powers according to the narrative having no aluminum, etc) also been changed?
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Apr 10, 2019 17:33
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Dear god you madmen B, loving partition Morocco they have done it to us already so give them a taste of their medicine. The new socialist state will just get couped once our backs are turned anyway ffs.
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Apr 10, 2019 17:43
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A. Let's form a Communist States of the Mediterranean as we seize Italy and subjugate Morocco.
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Apr 10, 2019 17:55
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I’m sure we’ve been greeted as liberators and there will be no problems whatsoever.
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Apr 10, 2019 17:58
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We'll rename the Med to Blood Ocean.
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Apr 10, 2019 18:03
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A but annex the strait while you're on it
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Apr 10, 2019 18:15
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Frionnel posted:A but annex the strait while you're on it That's taken care of. Hashim posted:The Supreme Leader has already issued a decree in which the Straits of Gibraltar are formally annexed to Iberia
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Apr 10, 2019 18:26
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The strait is no longer enough. Annex the entire northern coast of Africa
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Apr 10, 2019 18:32
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C, absolutely. Benin is a pretty cordial neighbor, and their explosive push across like 1/3 of Africa doesn't change that. And besides, biting off more than we can chew has never, ever gone poorly.
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Apr 10, 2019 18:44
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sheep-dodger posted:imo A is the best choice, as it allows the new state to use Moroccan industry, resources and Manpower at 100% efficiency and probably makes for stronger allied troops as opposed to a balkanized Maghreb that will struggle to put any decently sized divisions together. Between this and Crazycryodude's explanation, A it is!
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Apr 10, 2019 19:01
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A
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Apr 10, 2019 19:02
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Crazycryodude posted:How's reconstruction going to actually go in the Maghreb? Like how are we gonna make sure all the capitalists have been shot and the nobles garroted in this new state? Is this in any way related to how we're probably gonna be keeping Iberian troops in the region anyways to keep an eye on the Beninese border/fight Egypt? I'm gonna keep a few divisions in the Maghreb, but the vast majority are already being redeployed against Francia, we're gonna need as many numbers on that front as possible.
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Apr 10, 2019 19:12
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wukkar posted:Have resources (such as Portuguese land having hilarious tungsten, certain countries that should be major powers according to the narrative having no aluminum, etc) also been changed? They've been changed a lot, mostly ported from the more resources mod but with a bunch of changes.
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Apr 10, 2019 19:13
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C. gently caress Morocco.
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Apr 10, 2019 19:47
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Ghost of Mussolini posted:A Agreed. The puppeting mechanics in HoI4 will give us the optimal benefits in this case.
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Apr 10, 2019 19:55
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Crazycryodude posted:How's reconstruction going to actually go in the Maghreb? Like how are we gonna make sure all the capitalists have been shot and the nobles garroted in this new state? Is this in any way related to how we're probably gonna be keeping Iberian troops in the region anyways to keep an eye on the Beninese border/fight Egypt? I'm pretty sure that we've been giving asylum to various Moroccan revolutionaries and dissidents, so by all logic we should already have a puppet government ready to be installed at short notice.
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Apr 10, 2019 19:58
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Voting A, as if any other option has a chance at this point
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Apr 10, 2019 20:02
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Pakled posted:That's taken care of. Ah, nice. I read the update in a hurry and missed that part. Glory to Iberia!
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Apr 10, 2019 20:09
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we finally completely hosed up and took over morocco goons: give them their country back!
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Apr 10, 2019 20:16
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Do you want to be the person posted to keep them under direct control the whole time?
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Apr 10, 2019 20:41
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We're forcing them to install a communist puppet state. The only difference between A and C is that we're not personally overseeing the reeducation camps for the Berber nobility.
habeasdorkus fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Apr 10, 2019 |
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Apr 10, 2019 20:47
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Cerebral Bore posted:I'm pretty sure that we've been giving asylum to various Moroccan revolutionaries and dissidents, so by all logic we should already have a puppet government ready to be installed at short notice.
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Apr 10, 2019 21:16
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what better vengeance against the almarovid regime than empowering their people* to rule themselves???
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Apr 10, 2019 21:18
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A strongly federalized Maghrebi Union is our best bet.
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Apr 10, 2019 22:42
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It's kind of hilarious that Al Andalus is singularly responsible for every societal advancement in Moroccan History. We might need to send the tanks in to enforce LGBT rights decades from now, but for the time being I'm sure our southern comrades are ready to do their part in the war against fascism.
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Apr 10, 2019 22:55
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habeasdorkus posted:We're forcing them to install a communist puppet state. The only difference between A and C is that we're not personally overseeing the reeducation camps for the Berber nobility. and we don't have their factories and manpower, yes
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Apr 10, 2019 23:02
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The final tally: Option A - 46 - tatankatonk, Soup du Jour, Technowolf, Talas, Mantis42, Captain Oblivious, Ghost of Mussolini, GSD, iLurk, Pakled, ChaseSP, Grammarchist, habeasdorkus, Toningly, Crazycryodude, Aeromancia, Polgas, Erwin the German, Eleven Eleven, Mirdini, V. Illych L., Ibblebibble, mcclay, sheep-dodger, Archaeology Hat, Cerebral Bore, Hitlers Gay Secret, Cogliermo, RagnarokZ, Dance Officer, Average Lettuce, Jihad Joe, Jeoh, skipThings, Mirello, MaxieSatan, puppets freak me out, paragon1, Luhood, RabidWeasel, Xelkelvos, Frionnel, Pacho, WilliamAnderson, Yvonmukluk, Eumenides. Option B - 12 - Super Jay Mann, Slaan, Snipee, QuoProQuid, ManifunkDestiny, Ikasuhito, orangelex44, CommissarMega, Obliterati, ChrisAsmadi, Rodyle, Jack2142. Option C - 12 - Zikan, Lord Cyrahzax, Flavius Aetass, ThatBasqueGuy, Kangxi, frankenfreak, Top Hats Monthly, aqu, Danny Glands, wukkar, SleuthDiplomacy, Ralepozozaxe. A resounding victory for A, so we'll have to find a compliant Moroccan to lead this people's republic of the Maghreb.
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Apr 10, 2019 23:28
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Flavius Aetass posted:and we don't have their factories and manpower, yes We have their manpower, actually. We can train divisions from their manpower pool if we so desire. Or just ASSUME DIRECT CONTROL of any forces they make themselves if necessary. Whereas if we held the land, we'd get less manpower that way and probably have a whole lot of resistance blowing up those factories and tying down our own army.
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Apr 10, 2019 23:46
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Crazycryodude posted:One Big Maghreb has the advantage of putting all the resources in the area under one united government, so they can build the strongest possible army/industry/etc to help us with. The downside to this is that if they ever want to tell us to get hosed in a few years (which they very possibly might due to Hashim and narrative) they're now in the strongest position to resist us. Balkanizing the area will get us a bunch of individual weak states that probably aren't quite as good in aggregate as one big state would be, but it divides resistance against us. Full occupation is honestly the worst option, we'd maintain the territory we have now for our own personal use, but would need to waste Iberian men garrisoning it and occupied territory that's not our core has big penalties to how much manpower, industry, and resources it will provide to the conqueror, only the core owner can get full use out of it. Bolded for emphasis. In the vanilla game you might be able to exploit the poo poo out of puppets without them being able to do anything about it, but you all know Hashim is going to write in events to make sure that doesn't happen. Having your age old enemy topple your empire then install a radical puppet government and force it's people to take up arms against previous allies is something I don't see your every day Moroccan taking too well. We'll be lucky if Communist Morocco is anything but complete anarchy and assassinations.
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Apr 11, 2019 00:02
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