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Laslow
Jul 18, 2007

Casey Finnigan posted:

oh drat Neglected Mario Characters still exists, and the website is now extremely bizarre and has all these links to pokerlistings.com
One of the characters on that page is shown browsing Helldump! Ha!

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Paladin
Nov 26, 2004
You lost today, kid. But that doesn't mean you have to like it.


Humbug Scoolbus posted:

I have been mentally conditioned over the past 22 years to continue reading Sluggy Freelance until I die, or Pete Abrams dies...please kill me.

Years ago, when his daughter was born, I remember thinking "this child will grow up, learn to draw, become a better artist, start, and finish a comic before Sluggy Freelance even remotely begins to wrap up."

Code Jockey
Jan 24, 2006

69420 basic bytes free

The_Franz posted:

The Penny Arcade guys had their fair share of controversy, but I don't recall this. Just off the top of my head, there was the dickwolves thing and that horrible job listing that basically read "Wanted: One guy to do three jobs. You will run the entire tech side of our operation and are expected to be on call 24/7. We will constantly remind you that you are our bitch and we're going to pay you very little because we don't care about money. At least that's what we like to tell ourselves while we collect huge salaries and buy Mercedes to compensate for being pantsed in gym class 30 years ago. We do have a ping-pong table in the office though (that you probably won't be allowed to touch)."

I wish PAX as a thing would separate from them somehow so I could go and not give them any money

Eighties ZomCom
Sep 10, 2008





This made check out Ebaums World for the first time in years and it seems to have become a generic clickbait article site.

Pham Nuwen
Oct 30, 2010



EvilTaytoMan posted:

This made check out sites outside SA for the first time in years and it seems to have become a generic clickbait article site.

DizzyBum
Apr 16, 2007


EvilTaytoMan posted:

This made check out Ebaums World for the first time in years and it seems to have become a generic clickbait article site.

Hey, welcome to the site! Don't forget to subscribe to our newsletter! Please disable your adblocker so we can keep bringing you great content!

Speaking of Ebaums World, I recently learned about "FuckJerry" and it's like Ebaums World all over again, but far more pervasive.

LifeSunDeath
Jan 4, 2007

still gay rights and smoke weed every day
How many more weeks till SA is the next on the chopping block?

tactlessbastard
Feb 4, 2001

Godspeed, post
Fun Shoe
Was there more to the dickwolves thing, beyond being juvenile and unfunny, than I'm remembering?

Queen Combat
Dec 29, 2017

Lipstick Apathy
They vehemently defended their decision in a newspost or two, which is yikes in itself. And then IIRC did the whole Strawberry Shortcake thing around the same time? Funny how they bowed to pressure on that one despite not legally being required to, yet refused to acknowledge that an explicit rape joke may not be in the best taste.

Sweevo
Nov 8, 2007

i sometimes throw cables away

i mean straight into the bin without spending 10+ years in the box of might-come-in-handy-someday first

im a fucking monster

Queen Combat posted:

And then IIRC did the whole Strawberry Shortcake thing around the same time?

Those strips were 7 years apart.

Queen Combat
Dec 29, 2017

Lipstick Apathy
Aaahhh all the poo poo blends together.

Pretty good
Apr 16, 2007



The best hard core gamer webcomic was Eegra

Also I binge-read all of Venus Envy one weekend in 2006 and felt very hosed up about it and forbade myself from ever looking at it again :shepface:

Lowen SoDium
Jun 5, 2003

Highen Fiber
Clapping Larry

tactlessbastard posted:

Was there more to the dickwolves thing, beyond being juvenile and unfunny, than I'm remembering?

I don't mean to defend the comic or anything, but the whole thing was a bad reaction to an over reaction.

Here is the comic if you never read it:


Some people were offended saying that "Everynight, we are raped to sleep by the dickwolves" was making lite of the seriousness of rape.

Penny Arcade responded to these people with this comic:



And also selling shirts with this image:


Some stuff happened on twitter that I think has been lost to the ages and then this post came up on Jan 2011 on PA:





In a panel at PAX in 2013, Gabe said that he thought removing the Dickwolves merch was a mistake.

A week later he posted this on PA:

quote:

Some Clarification
There have been a lot of assumptions about what I meant or thought at the panel last Monday. I wanted to clear that up, so get ready, let’s talk about Dickwolves.

Robert had the idea to host a panel at PAX this year that would be him interviewing Jerry and me. The thinking was that there’s stuff only he can ask us because only he knows about it, or if anyone else asked us we would tell them to gently caress off. He got us to talk pretty openly about some very private stuff, from our finances and how we spend our money to our wives and details about the times we’ve been approached to sell Penny Arcade. It was a super intense interview but the one question that is getting the most attention is when Robert asked us to name a time when we thought he made a mistake.

That’s a hard question because honestly Robert makes very few mistakes. Although if he asked me that same question today I’d probably say “the time you asked us to be brutally honest in front of three thousand people.” So I had to think really hard about it and the only time I could remember really thinking he made a mistake was when he told us we had to pull the Dickwolves merch. I didn’t really get a chance to elaborate on why that was though, and unfortunately by not doing so it created a bit of a firestorm on the Internet.

So let me start by saying I like the Dickwolves strip. I think it’s a strong comic and I still think the joke is funny. Would we make that strip today? Knowing what we know now and seeing how it hurt people, no. We wouldn’t. But at the time, it seemed pretty benign. With that said I absolutely regret everything we did after that comic. I regret the follow up strip, I regret making the merchandise, I regret pulling the merchandise and I regret being such an rear end in a top hat on twitter to people who were upset. I don’t think any of those things were good ideas. If we had just stopped with the strip and moved on, the Dickwolf never would have become what it is today. Which is a joke at the expense of rape victims or a symbol of the dismissal of people who have suffered a sexual assault. the comic itself obviously points out the absurd morality of the average MMO where you are actually forced to help some people and ignore others in the same situation. Oddly enough, the first comic by itself is exactly the opposite of what this whole thing has turned into.

There are people who were offended by or hurt by the joke in the strip and rather than just let it go we decided to make a second strip. That was a mistake and I apologize to this day for that strip. It was a knee jerk reaction and rather than the precision strike back at our detractors that we intended, it was a massive AOE that hurt a lot of innocent people. We should have just stopped right then but we kept going and made the merchandise. Had we left it alone, the ongoing tension about the whole thing might have subsided but Robert made the call to pull the shirts. In hindsight all this did was open the wound back up and bring on a whole new wave of debate. Any action we took at the time just dug us deeper regardless of what it was. What we needed to do was stop. just stop. I apologized for it at the time and I will still apologize for it. Everything we did after that initial comic strip was a mistake and I regret all of it.

If you saw the panel you know that someone in the audience shouted out and asked us to bring the merchandise back. Both Robert and I immediately said no way. We have worked very hard to make PAX a safe place. We have an incredible anti-harassment policy, a “booth babe” policy that you will not find anywhere else in the industry,and panels that cover all the social issues facing gaming today in a meaningful way. That’s the heart of PAX and that will never change.

I certainly can’t blame the people who still want to hate me. In that same panel with Robert he asked us how we feel about being role models. We don’t aspire to be role models, just normal people, but we try to do what’s best with the platform we have. I can’t promise I won’t piss you off again at some point. In fact I suggested to Robert a header at the top of the page saying “it has be x days since our last gently caress up” but he shot me down. What I can promise is that we will continue to be honest with you. There’s no bullshit, no PR, this is just Jerry and I and we’re doing the best we can. Hopefully we will keep getting better.

I sort of see PAX like I see my children. Yes I helped make them and yes they have a lot of me in them but they can be better than me. They can take the good stuff I have and leave out all the bad. Like my kids, PAX makes me want to be better.

-Gabe Out


Then on Jan 2014, he posted this on PA.

quote:

Resolutions
I’m not always a very good person. I’m mean and I recognize that. I know exactly where it comes from too. As a kid I moved schools a lot. I was always the new kid and I was a weird looking new kid which made it worse. There was no nationwide movement to stop bullying back then. The advice I got from teachers was to “ignore them” or “try and make friends with them”. It is hard to ignore or become friends with someone who literally sets your hair on fire on the bus. So what I did is decide at a young age that no one else’s opinion of me mattered. I had to in order not to kill myself. I had to flip a switch in my head and essentially decide that no one else could decide what I was or was not. I shut almost everyone out and decided that anyone who attacked me was an “enemy” and I began to attack back. I got very good at insulting people. Kids would come at me with some bullshit about my teeth or how goofy I looked and I would retaliate with insults I had custom built for them while lying awake at night and each one was a precision strike to their insecurities. This kid was short, that one had a hard time reading, this other one’s parents were getting a divorce. By 7th grade I could make someone hit me with a couple words.


They weren’t fights so much as they were beatings but I still ended up in the vice principal’s office. Eventually they started to realize I was instigating the abuse. They couldn’t understand why I didn’t just keep my mouth shut. Why I had to egg these kids on. “Why can’t you just ignore them and keep walking when they say something to you?” I can’t count how many counselors told me “they are just words, they can’t hurt you.” but words can hurt and as a scrawny kid who couldn’t fight I learned the right words can hurt much more and much longer than a fist.


We are all products of our childhood and what came out of mine was an unrepentant rear end in a top hat. This person wasn’t a great fit for the handful of retail jobs I bounced between. I’m not what you would call a “people person”. It was a good fit for making comic strips though. In 1998 I finally discovered an outlet for the the horrible skills I had. My disgusting sense of humor helped to create Penny Arcade and grow it to what it has become today. The same things about me that I used to think were an asset, something good that I brought to the mix have become a liability though. It’s a strange position to be in and I’ve spent a lot of time this year reflecting on it. The person I am isn’t good for PA anymore and in fact who I am and the way I behave has caused real damage to it. So this person isn’t good for PA but I’m not sure it’s good for me either.


So what am I? As a young person I imagined myself a sort of vengeful spirit. A schoolyard Robin Hood who attacked the strong and popular on behalf of the social outcasts. I’m 36 years old now though and I realize what I am is a bully. I may have been the one who got beat up but I sent plenty of kids home in tears. I also realize that I carried those ridiculous insecurities into adulthood. I still see people who attack me as the enemy and I strike back with the same ferocity as that seventh grader I used to be. I’m ashamed of that and embarrassed. The crazy thing is I don’t even necessarily believe the stuff I say a lot of times. It would probably be more noble if I did. The truth is I just say them to be mean. I say them because I know they will hurt. It’s pretty hosed up.


I’ve done a lot of soul searching this year. I’ve tried to figure out what sort of person I am and what sort of person I want to be going forward. I know I don’t want to be this angry kid anymore. I take medicine to control my anxiety and depression but there is no pill I can take to stop being a jerk. That’s a deeper problem and it’s something I’m working on. I love the gaming community. I’ve dedicated the last fifteen years of my life to it. I’d very much like to believe that the good things I’ve helped build will continue far past Penny Arcade and me. I like to believe that Child’s Play and PAX will outlive me and continue to be forces for good in the gaming community. Early on in Child’s Play’s life it became obvious that its connection to PA was hurting it. We had a conversation with a group that was going to dedicate a fountain to the charity here in Seattle but later decided against it because of the content on Penny Arcade. this was probably 9 years ago and long before any of the most recent issues. Even back then I knew it was going to be difficult to be the sort of person I am and make the sort of things I make while still trying to do these other things that I considered good. If a person is bad they must be all bad right? How could someone who writes comics about beastiality also want to help children? We decided at the time to distance ourselves as much as possible from the charity. it has its own site and its own people in charge of it. We promote it but it exists on it’s own and I want any gamer regardless of how they feel about me or Penny Arcade to feel comfortable supporting it.


I feel the same way about PAX. You’ll notice that it is no longer the Penny Arcade Expo. It’s outgrown us and it belongs to the gaming community at large now not just PA fans. Someday I expect to attend a PAX and not even be recognized. That’s honestly fine with me. I don’t want the material on PA or who I am to keep people from attending and enjoying PAX. During the Q&A at PAX Prime we actually talked about slowly removing ourselves from the show over the next few years. We’ve been doing it for a decade now and I’m happy to step out of the way and let the show grow without me rather than inspite of me. That’s only part of the problem though. The other part is fixing some of my own issues and that’s something I need to do on my own.


I’ve seen some articles about the roll for diversity stuff happening at PAX and I respect that some people are hesitant to jump on board or see it as a stunt of some kind. I can tell you in all honesty that it springs from a desire on our part to do better and be better. Is there more we can do? Well to be fair we haven’t even done this yet. I’m sure it will need tuning and adjusting but every tweak and change will be done with the goal of making PAX a better show for everyone.

I’ve learned a ridiculous amount this year. About myself and about other people. It’s been a difficult year, probably the hardest in my life and I realize I brought most of it on myself. That’s a sobering realization. I also realize that I’ve made it harder for the people I care about, my friends and my family. I can’t be this guy anymore. I have every intention of taking the things I’ve learned this year to heart and changing. I’ve said I’m sorry for the things I’ve said but I’ve never apologized for who I am. I need to separate the busted kid from the man I am now. I guess that’s my new years resolution. Might be harder than losing ten pounds.

-Gabe out


So there you have it.

Guy Axlerod
Dec 29, 2008
I still like that Ebaum's follow-on venture was a NYC-style high-end steakhouse. It failed, because it's in a town that can't support NYC-style high-end prices.

oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Humourless dumb idiots freaked out about jokes. Typical.

Lowen SoDium
Jun 5, 2003

Highen Fiber
Clapping Larry

oohhboy posted:

Humourless dumb idiots freaked out about jokes. Typical.

I am not sure which of the 2 sides you are referring to, but yes.

FilthyImp
Sep 30, 2002

Anime Deviant

Lowen SoDium posted:

Some stuff happened on twitter that I think has been lost to the ages
Iirc, he was hosting a Live Draw while shooting the poo poo at PAX and he decided this was the perfect time to show the audience what he thought a Dickwolf would look like.
There were also a number of exhibitors at PAX that just noped out of it explicitly because of how they were handling the whole thing.

This is one of those thing where you realize that Rob Khoo sat them down and said "you will lose your livelihood unless you do what I say" and managed to save them from themselves.

E://
Gabe was also the guy that made the long post about how he would rather set fire to his life's work than [do thing] once, so yeah he's had a lot of oppositional related temper issues. That last post shows he's started working them out, probably because it's hard to be an angsty manchild when raising an actual child.

FilthyImp has a new favorite as of 17:21 on Apr 10, 2019

oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
It's a freak out inception. By half way nobody seems to know what the gently caress it was about or who they are fighting or what they are doing. Just shut up. No matter how funny or not a joke is there will always be someone who will kick up a fuss for *Reasons*.

Wait, he was seriously going to draw a dick wolf. :wtf: Even as a joke that is the wrong time, place and context.

That reminds me, was dead baby jokes an early internet thing?

Flash Gordon Ramsay
Sep 28, 2004

Grimey Drawer

oohhboy posted:

That reminds me, was dead baby jokes an early internet thing?

As a kid in 80s, I had the entire series of Blanche Knotts Truly Tasteless Jokes books. Dead baby jokes were a staple of those books.

Bloody Hedgehog
Dec 12, 2003

💥💥🤯💥💥
Gotta nuke something
What I want to know is why was the creator of Law & Order keeping prisoners in a dungeon in the first place.

Mak0rz
Aug 2, 2008

😎🐗🚬

oohhboy posted:

That reminds me, was dead baby jokes an early internet thing?

These are as old as edgy humor itself.

Flash Gordon Ramsay posted:

As a kid in 80s, I had the entire series of Blanche Knotts Truly Tasteless Jokes books. Dead baby jokes were a staple of those books.

In a Stephen King book published in 1991 a character kills a computer by telling it a dead baby joke.

Powered Descent
Jul 13, 2008

We haven't had that spirit here since 1969.

One of the games in the Civilization series (III? IV?) had a thing where great scientists would be be born at random throughout history and give whichever player got them a bonus to research or something. There was a big list of names of real-life scientists that the game would choose from, so that you might get Marie Curie born in Tenochtitlan in 200 BC, or any combination like that.

And some goon played a game where he got Tycho Brahe, and he immediately made a thread full of screenshots and crowed about finding this amazing easter egg and how the people who make Civ must be Penny Arcade fans.

:ughh:

boar guy
Jan 25, 2007

Flash Gordon Ramsay posted:

As a kid in 80s, I had the entire series of Blanche Knotts Truly Tasteless Jokes books. Dead baby jokes were a staple of those books.

i got suspended from school for having one of those books on me and my parents let me sleep in and eat trash and watch TV during it because they thought the suspension was so stupid

tactlessbastard
Feb 4, 2001

Godspeed, post
Fun Shoe

Powered Descent posted:

One of the games in the Civilization series (III? IV?) had a thing where great scientists would be be born at random throughout history and give whichever player got them a bonus to research or something. There was a big list of names of real-life scientists that the game would choose from, so that you might get Marie Curie born in Tenochtitlan in 200 BC, or any combination like that.

And some goon played a game where he got Tycho Brahe, and he immediately made a thread full of screenshots and crowed about finding this amazing easter egg and how the people who make Civ must be Penny Arcade fans.

:ughh:

Ugh, indeed.

Veotax
May 16, 2006


I also remember one of the Penny Arcade assholes saying some pretty transphobic stuff at one point.

Lowen SoDium
Jun 5, 2003

Highen Fiber
Clapping Larry

FilthyImp posted:


E://
Gabe was also the guy that made the long post about how he would rather set fire to his life's work than [do thing] once, so yeah he's had a lot of oppositional related temper issues. That last post shows he's started working them out, probably because it's hard to be an angsty manchild when raising an actual child.

Yeah, the whole "set fire to my life's work" freakout was in response to the Ocean Marketing guy and that controller mod thing for disabled people, but it happened kind of in the middle of all this. Its long and I won't quote it, but it's a good read. Check it out here and the follow up post here. Gabe talks about bullies in the second post, which ties in to the post he made in 2014 about being a bully himself.

Lowen SoDium has a new favorite as of 18:23 on Apr 10, 2019

rndmnmbr
Jul 3, 2012

Yeah, the response to the Dickwolves thing... I mean, people read PA, right? They realize Dickwolves are par for the course, right? PA is a pair of assholes backed by an advertising and merch company built by a very smart business manager, and without Khoo the pair would have crashed and burned a decade and a half ago and probably been mostly forgotten by now.

Dr. Quarex
Apr 18, 2003

I'M A BIG DORK WHO POSTS TOO MUCH ABOUT CONVENTIONS LOOK AT THIS

TOVA TOVA TOVA

Veotax posted:

I also remember one of the Penny Arcade assholes saying some pretty transphobic stuff at one point.
That sounds about right, as being anti-trans is the newest hip vile belief, but was that before that apology? Because anyone who skipped over that last huge block quote should read it and be genuinely impressed by one of the only sincere self-reflective apologies I have ever seen from an Internet Person. That poo poo was brutal to read in the good way, in that it made me wonder about potential links between my own childhood defensive behaviors and my insufferable adult self (not bullying cruelty so much as unreasonable positivity)

Veotax
May 16, 2006


2013 from a quick google search.

Probably a contributing factor for PAX making a "see, we're all about diversity" push around that time. They introduced a 'safe diversity space' or something that everyone at the time called the Diversity Ghetto, implying that the rest of the show wasn't safe non-cis/hetro/white people. No idea how that turned out, stopped following PAX before that.

The_Franz
Aug 8, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 54 minutes!

rndmnmbr posted:

Yeah, the response to the Dickwolves thing... I mean, people read PA, right? They realize Dickwolves are par for the course, right? PA is a pair of assholes backed by an advertising and merch company built by a very smart business manager, and without Khoo the pair would have crashed and burned a decade and a half ago and probably been mostly forgotten by now.

IIRC, the dickwolves thing didn't become an issue until years after the comic was published and the perma-offended crowd stumbled upon it.

I was always under the impression that the writer guy was ok, even if he still writes like an overachieving highschooler trying to impress the teacher with paragraphs full of long, obscure words that ultimately say nothing.

A while back I looked at PA for the first time in years and the art style now looks... deranged.

Computer viking
May 30, 2011
Now with less breakage.

I think they've reined it in a little bit recently? The current style looks a bit more classical to me than the weird 2D jug handle noses he used a year or two ago.

As for web comics with a story, the only one I'm still reading is Schlock Mercenary, much because it's the only one to not go off the rails with personal/political/dark and serious; it has just remained light military sci-fi with plot arcs. The art has improved massively over the years, too.

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006
I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius
I can't even remember the last time I was into a web comic. I guess various life circumstances pushed me away. Plus a lot of the comics I read ended up being created by complete douchebags. Not to mention that my height of reading webcomics was when I was an edgy teen, and I matured out of the edgy ones and the good ones just kind of fell to the wayside.

doctorfrog
Mar 14, 2007

Great.

I was at least semi-regularly checking online strips up until Google yanked Reader. After that, I just looked at Maakies when Tony Millionaire would post it on Facebook, then he retired the strip. I tried for a bit to use an RSS reader program, but honestly I just didn't miss looking at comic strips on a computer. There was a webcomic thread on SA that was sort of amusing at one point, and there's a ton of good comics in print at the library if I'm in the mood.

Casimir Radon
Aug 2, 2008


I still think PBF is hilarious. Terminal Lance is also great, and when idiot elements of his fanbase have said lovely things he's called them out on it without having to be asked.

Tiny Timbs
Sep 6, 2008

My favorite PA controversy is when they posted a job ad saying that the extremely non-competitive pay, 80-hour work weeks, and massive list of stressful job duties was balanced by the fact that they had a free soda fridge in the office or something

rndmnmbr
Jul 3, 2012

Computer viking posted:

As for web comics with a story, the only one I'm still reading is Schlock Mercenary, much because it's the only one to not go off the rails with personal/political/dark and serious; it has just remained light military sci-fi with plot arcs. The art has improved massively over the years, too.

Eeeeeh.... I'd say the scope of the story has outgrown the tone and setting. Desperately trying to figure out what killed billions of years worth of super advanced galactic civilizations just before it gets around to doing the same to you / desperately trying to find the remnants of said civilizations when they don't want to be found and definitely don't want to talk to you is a little outside what the comic is best at, silly mercenary hijinks.

But then, the comic kinda lost me between the LOTA story and the Gav story. Longshoreman of the Apocalypse was brutally dark, but there was enough levity there to keep things going, especially in LOTA itself. But the next book wasn't enough of a breather, and then Random Access Memorabilia was the same kind of brutal darkness, but it's not funny. I came away from that story beaten and bruised, and there just hasn't been the same magic since.

Fallom posted:

My favorite PA controversy is when they posted a job ad saying that the extremely non-competitive pay, 80-hour work weeks, and massive list of stressful job duties was balanced by the fact that they had a free soda fridge in the office or something

To quote Jerry, they're "hiring new friends". Which has always struck me as "hiring people to pretend to be friends and then working them to death because that's what friends do for each other, right?"

But then I'm biased because I've lost both jobs and friends over being hired by them and then not sharing their willingness to gently caress themselves out of money/benefits/time off.

FilthyImp
Sep 30, 2002

Anime Deviant

The_Franz posted:

IIRC, the dickwolves thing didn't become an issue until years after the comic was published and the perma-offended crowd stumbled upon it.
"The Sixth Slave" was published 8-11-2010. The "apology" strip (go forth, and rape no more) was published 8-13-2010. Two months later they issued shirts with the design, which kept the thing going into 2011 (including his Dickwolves livedrawing and wearing the shirt for a PAX event). Then, for some reason, Gabe brought it back in 2013 when talking about regrettable decisions.

This wasn't the Tumblratti deciding to get offended over nothing. It absolutely was an issue, but their god-damned inability to just admit they hosed up fanned the flames of that poo poo for years.

Pham Nuwen
Oct 30, 2010



*updates penny-arcade-scandals-timeline.xls*

Casimir Radon
Aug 2, 2008


Pham Nuwen posted:

*updates penny-arcade-scandals-timeline.xls*
*Realizes that a flat file is no longer adequate.

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FilthyImp
Sep 30, 2002

Anime Deviant

Pham Nuwen posted:

*updates penny-arcade-scandals-timeline.xls*
Please, don't be absurd.

That poo poo is in Visio.

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