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That can be said about non athletes too it's not a athlete only phenomenon
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Apr 10, 2019 19:58
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Sour Diesel posted:there's no developmental league on this planet that would be giving athletes millions of dollars because then it wouldn't be a developmental league at that point By "millions" I mean 1-3 million, not 30 million like the NFL. You don't think Zion Williamson would earn at least a million dollars if he was playing commercially today? Or Kyler Murray? They most definitely would, because in this hypothetical scenario all or most of the money that is going to NCAA football would be going to the developmental league. Some of these players' families need money, and that would be life-changing for them. It's kinda pointless argument anyways. The NCAA has its tendrils everywhere, has an enormous amount of influence in tons of different areas, and isn't going anywhere. It just pisses me off how insanely exploitative the college sports system really is Play fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Apr 10, 2019 |
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Apr 10, 2019 20:07
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Play posted:By "millions" I mean 1-3 million, not 30 million like the NFL. You don't think Zion Williamson would earn at least a million dollars if he was playing commercially today? Or Kyler Murray? They most definitely would, because in this hypothetical scenario all or most of the money that is going to NCAA football would be going to the developmental league. Not in the G League he wouldn't. He might in euro leagues. Which are not developmental leagues
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Apr 10, 2019 20:09
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Zion is a once in a generation player lmao he absolutely should not be your benchmark Hey yall do you adrian Peterson would get paid a bunch? I rest my case
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Apr 10, 2019 20:09
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Metapod posted:Zion is a once in a generation player lmao he absolutely should not be your benchmark Where did I say he was my benchmark? He's obviously meant to illustrate the upper limit of what would be possible a neat cape posted:Not in the G League he wouldn't. Guys, in this scenario the NCAA has been replaced with this hypothetical developmental league. If you don't think there'd be enough money to pay the players a ton then I don't know what to tell you
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Apr 10, 2019 20:11
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Yeah they aren't talking about a competing developmental league. They're talking about an AHL equivalent in the NHL straight up
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Apr 10, 2019 20:18
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Anyone good enough to be paid $3 million/year would just actually be signed straight into the NFL, though. If we're abolishing the NCAA we're also presumably doing away with eligibility requirements.
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Apr 10, 2019 20:30
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So this is all Play's fanfiction and not an actual discussion, got it
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Apr 10, 2019 20:32
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Play posted:By "millions" I mean 1-3 million so more than the vet minimum in the NFL Docjowles posted:Anyone good enough to be paid $3 million/year would just actually be signed straight into the NFL, though. If we're abolishing the NCAA we're also presumably doing away with eligibility requirements. yes
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Apr 10, 2019 20:34
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Jiminy Christmas! Shoes! posted:How many Div I NCAA football players even graduate? Most of them, I think?
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Apr 10, 2019 20:35
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In the scenario you are describing there would not be enough money because the prestige of NCAA football is gone so the value of everything goes down and it probably collapses. I said Zion is your benchmark because he was the only player you named before editing and all was said was Zion would make a lot of money.
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Apr 10, 2019 20:35
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Docjowles posted:Anyone good enough to be paid $3 million/year would just actually be signed straight into the NFL, though. If we're abolishing the NCAA we're also presumably doing away with eligibility requirements. True, some players would likely go straight up (although going from high school football to the pros immediately isn't really feasible). It would all be up to them, and they'd be paid appropriate to their talents. a neat cape posted:So this is all Play's fanfiction and not an actual discussion, got it It's called a hypothetical scenario. It's where you think about what things would be like if certain factors were different. In this case, the NCAA doesn't exist and so a football league for transitioning players from high school to the pros filled that niche instead. The players would be paid in money instead of pointless classes, and would be able to move into the pros whenever a team determined them to be ready. They'd still have to go through the draft process though, obviously Play fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Apr 10, 2019 |
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Apr 10, 2019 20:36
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But then the NFL and football wouldn't be as popular as it is. The NCAA is a very important institution to the growth of football and no matter how lovely it is or how much you hate it thinking of hypothetical situations where it doesn't exist is a waste of time
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Apr 10, 2019 20:41
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Metapod posted:In the scenario you are describing there would not be enough money because the prestige of NCAA football is gone so the value of everything goes down and it probably collapses. It's true that you'd be losing a lot of what makes college football so drat profitable, notably the association with certain schools. Over time people might become fans of their league teams just as fervently as they did for their school teams, but it's definitely a problem. Mainly I'm just trying to think of a way that a horribly exploitative system like the NCAA wouldn't have to exist. The idea that athletes between 19-22 should be "student athletes" and shouldn't get paid is a scam perpetrated by all of the rich white men who benefit from the situation
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Apr 10, 2019 20:43
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Play posted:True, some players would likely go straight up (although going from high school football to the pros immediately isn't really feasible). It would all be up to them, and they'd be paid appropriate to their talents. The money that gets put into NCAA football is in large part because of the relationship the consumers (eg alumni) have with the institutions. The Arizona Hotshots are not going to generate millions upon millions of dollars in ticket and merchandise revenue even if the NCAA wasn't around. Think about how much minor league baseball teams are worth.
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Apr 10, 2019 20:44
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What if football was played by dogs? I bet that would really change the football landscape!
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Apr 10, 2019 20:45
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Metapod posted:But then the NFL and football wouldn't be as popular as it is. The NCAA is a very important institution to the growth of football and no matter how lovely it is or how much you hate it thinking of hypothetical situations where it doesn't exist is a waste of time I guess I look at it as a bigger deal than you do, that these players talents are being stolen from them and used to create wealth for other people. To me it that looks like indentured servitude, so thinking about how it could NOT be like that is interesting. But I'm done, this is the last post I swear You're definitely right that it's a waste of time, but that applies to everything we do on this forum, so.... Jiminy Christmas! Shoes! posted:The money that gets put into NCAA football is in large part because of the relationship the consumers (eg alumni) have with the institutions. The Arizona Hotshots are not going to generate millions upon millions of dollars in ticket and merchandise revenue even if the NCAA wasn't around. Think about how much minor league baseball teams are worth. Consumers would grow relationships with their state team. Say there was an "Alabama" team for college aged players. You really don't think Alabamians would be into that, despite the fact that it isn't "Alabama State"?
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Apr 10, 2019 20:46
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So how about a hypothetical scenario where the NCAA lost its argument over student athlete or it gets reversed instead of some nonsense that would change how popular and rich football has become entirely?
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Apr 10, 2019 20:47
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How about NCAA players unionize. That's probably the most realistic path to change with our current courts.
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Apr 10, 2019 20:48
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Jiminy Christmas! Shoes! posted:How about NCAA players unionize. That's probably the most realistic path to change. I like that idea Metapod posted:So how about a hypothetical scenario where the NCAA lost its argument over student athlete or it gets reversed instead of some nonsense that would change how popular and rich football has become entirely? You're kind of playing into the NCAA hands by assuming football couldn't exist without it. Football would be fine without the NCAA. People would still love it, people would still play it, people would still watch it
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Apr 10, 2019 20:48
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The popularity of football would not even be close to as it is without college football.
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Apr 10, 2019 20:53
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Jiminy Christmas! Shoes! posted:How about NCAA players unionize. That's probably the most realistic path to change with our current courts. They tried. Most players didn't support it
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Apr 10, 2019 20:53
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Metapod posted:The popularity of football would not even be close to as it is without college football. It took decades for Americans to really get invested in the professional game. It was largely considered an oddity for most of the early 20th century, compared to the college game anyway. But... if, in the unlikely event some court shut down the NCAA I don't think people would stop following the NFL.
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Apr 10, 2019 20:54
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If a court shut down the NCAA, it wouldn't kill college football although it would obviously change the landscape. Some other structure would arise to handle rules and poo poo, and schools would just start openly paying players. I don't see how a court is going to abolish the playing of football while wearing school colors, and that's the big draw anyway.
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Apr 10, 2019 21:07
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That scenario could be very harmful to the NFL cause who knows what happens to their feeder program and having to design a new one would be costly and probably would damage their product because of less volume of players who get a chance. The NCAA needs restructuring not to be eliminated from existence. What happens to the track stars, gymnasts, women's basketball players, etc if the NCAA goes away?
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Apr 10, 2019 21:08
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The NCAA has made itself irreplaceable, or at least succeeded in giving that impression to folks. so yeah it couldn't just pop out of existence without causing a few problems. If it had never existed though we'd have an equivalent system that filled its niche exactly. Metapod posted:That scenario could be very harmful to the NFL cause who knows what happens to their feeder program and having to design a new one would be costly and probably would damage their product because of less volume of players who get a chance. The NCAA needs restructuring not to be eliminated from existence. What happens to the track stars, gymnasts, women's basketball players, etc if the NCAA goes away? For me I wasn't proposing the NCAA just disappear immediately, I was just thinking about what would be in the NCAA's place if it wasn't there. Actually replacing it, starting with the world we live in now . . . yeah, that'd be tough. Although I do think some student athletes would choose to be paid for their talents if the AAF had kept going for a few more years; why wouldn't they? It'd still give them as good a chance to be drafted (maybe better, considering they'd be playing against professionals) and they'd be getting paid the whole time.
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Apr 10, 2019 21:33
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Metapod posted:That scenario could be very harmful to the NFL cause who knows what happens to their feeder program and having to design a new one would be costly and probably would damage their product because of less volume of players who get a chance. The NCAA needs restructuring not to be eliminated from existence. What happens to the track stars, gymnasts, women's basketball players, etc if the NCAA goes away? I'm sure somewhere in the NFL's offices in New York are backup plans to resurrect NFL Europe or something like it in the United States should their free development league ever become threatened. Worst comes to worst they expand practice squads into full fledged development teams.
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Apr 10, 2019 21:37
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What if Tom Brady was black
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Apr 10, 2019 21:57
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Play posted:By "millions" I mean 1-3 million, not 30 million like the NFL. You don't think Zion Williamson would earn at least a million dollars if he was playing commercially today? Or Kyler Murray? They most definitely would, because in this hypothetical scenario all or most of the money that is going to NCAA football would be going to the developmental league. Some of these players' families need money, and that would be life-changing for them. It's the NFL that's locking out NFL-ready players.
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Apr 10, 2019 22:00
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A future where a minor league football system exists and overtakes the NCAA as the de facto development system is totally possible. The AAF had the right philosophy and was fun to watch, but any new league is going to have funding problems since investors with that much capital don't want to make money long term, they want to make every conceivable cent right this second.
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Apr 10, 2019 22:04
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I feel like if you're going to have a developmental league really work, at some level you need to kind of be contrived in terms of the schemes the league is running. I don't think you're doing players any favors by handing them over to Mike Martz to execute the greatest hits of 1999. Some of the fundamental problems in player development comes from colleges doing stuff to help them win in their specific situation rather than doing the stuff that makes players marketable in the NFL. Maybe even play with the allocation of players within the league- make sure the guy who is willing to develop 2-gap DEs get the guys who can physically hope to develop into that kind of thing, or the like.
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Apr 10, 2019 23:12
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Sash! posted:College isn't a development league anyhow and can't serve as a minor league because you age out of it. What in the loving world is your criteria for a developmental league  Literally 99.27% of NFL players on the roster in 2017 came from NCAA schools. A grand total of ONE player had no college experience of any kind. One.
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Apr 11, 2019 00:23
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GD_American posted:What in the loving world is your criteria for a developmental league Antonio Gates, defying the odds
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Apr 11, 2019 00:24
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a neat cape posted:Antonio Gates, defying the odds Misspelled Delvin Breaux.
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Apr 11, 2019 01:01
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GD_American posted:What in the loving world is your criteria for a developmental league I thought it was against the rules to hire players that didn't go through college so teams wouldn't cop kids from high school?
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Apr 11, 2019 01:07
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Spaced God posted:I thought it was against the rules to hire players that didn't go through college so teams wouldn't cop kids from high school? You don't have to go to college. You just have to be three years removed from high school graduation
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Apr 11, 2019 01:28
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GD_American posted:Misspelled Delvin Breaux. I don't know if you've heard, but Antonio Gates didn't play football in college
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Apr 11, 2019 01:28
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a neat cape posted:I don't know if you've heard, but Antonio Gates didn't play football in college I didn't specify that they had to play football in college. https://herosports.com/college-football/nfl-players-breakdown-nfl-rosters-college-football-division-byby 3 players came from basketball only NCAA schools. 7 players came from Canadian schools. 3 players came from the NAIA. Delvin Breaux came up through the arena league. Gates still played college sports at an NCAA level. He just played in their NBA-developmental division.
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Apr 11, 2019 01:55
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GD_American posted:What in the loving world is your criteria for a developmental league 100% of people that have died also have come into contact with oxygen during their lifetime. Turns out that not allowing players to be drafted until 3 years after high school makes everyone go to the only other game in town. The NCAA isn't a good developmental league because you're eligible for a discrete window of time, there are tons of schools and a shorter schedule so talent gets diluted, and you're shoe-horned into the system of the school you play at even if it doesn't suit your abilities. A development league should give a consistent level of competition for players to be evaluated against and also let players be brought up in a system that best suits their talents.
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Apr 11, 2019 02:02
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I have always thought that part of the reason college football is necessary is due to the sheer speed of the game in the NFL and the intensity of the hits you have to absorb. A kid straight out of HS doesn’t have a frame and body developed enough to take all that on.
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Apr 11, 2019 02:55
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