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Jun 5, 2024 09:04
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- Hogge Wild
- Aug 21, 2012
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by FactsAreUseless
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Pillbug
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lol
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Apr 14, 2019 07:36
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- Ghost Leviathan
- Mar 2, 2017
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Exploration is ill-advised.
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Fiddling with numbers a bit is one of the easiest game design tasks.
There's corner cases where it's a problem, but it's rarely gonna be that hard of a thing to do
That's exactly the kind of difficulty setting everyone hates and is considered lazy and ineffective, especially since it rarely makes the game significantly easier or harder but just more tedious. And it wouldn't work for a game like say, Cuphead, where changing the difficulty is a matter of changing attack patterns and such, which requires additional playtesting.
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Apr 14, 2019 07:44
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- ImpAtom
- May 24, 2007
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Fiddling with numbers a bit is one of the easiest game design tasks.
There's corner cases where it's a problem, but it's rarely gonna be that hard of a thing to do
It really isn't.
Finding the correct balance between "easy" and "boring" is difficult and varies heavily from game to game, and making an easy mode that keeps the game fun to play is actually really really hard. You need to figure out what the main appeal of your game is and figure out how to preserve that. Just raising/lowering numbers can actually make the experience worse.
For character action games for example it's usually a barrier not just to finish stages but to feel cool while doing so. If you put in a mode where everything dies in one hit anyone can finish your game but they don't feel strong while doing it and thus come across with a poorer feeling of the game. That is why games like Devil May Cry and Bayonetta have "automatic" modes where button mashing makes cool combos automatically for you. However making sure these combos work right is an involved task.
Likewise, for example, a racing game is difficult to rebalance because 'make everything go slower' isn't really very fun because part of the appeal of racing games is the back and forth. You need to adjust the racer AI so it still seems to provide a challenge, which usually involves adjusting rubberbanding and finding the sweet spot there is very hard.
Or look at something like Silent Hill, where the story and atmosphere are a big part of the game. Maybe someone enjoys SH for the puzzles and the atmosphere but isn't big on the (usually pretty crappy) combat, or alternately maybe someone really enjoys the atmosphere but doesn't like getting roadblocked by puzzles. Silent Hill resolved this by having separate difficulty levels for combat and puzzles but that isn't just 'adjusting numbers' and a mere easy/normal/hard doesn't necessarily solve what is blocking people.
In fact that's a big problem with a lot of easy modes. They adjust enemy HP/damage and nothing else which only really works for pure combat focused games. Mega Man for example isn't going to necessarily be easier for people who have trouble with it if all the enemies have half health and you do double damage if the thing people have trouble with is the basic platforming. Mega Man 10 tried to solve this by reducing the number of pits on its easy mode but it arguably went too far and had a negative impact on the game.
Regardless, you can't just tweak numbers and be done with it. You need to figure out how to make the game easier while retaining your game's strengths and that can be a real challenge.
Edit: For some reason I thought this was a different thread, please forgive me lack of meme and wall of boring text.
ImpAtom has a new favorite as of 08:08 on Apr 14, 2019
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Apr 14, 2019 07:58
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- voiceless anal fricative
- May 6, 2007
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It really isn't.
Finding the correct balance between "easy" and "boring" is difficult and varies heavily from game to game, and making an easy mode that keeps the game fun to play is actually really really hard. You need to figure out what the main appeal of your game is and figure out how to preserve that. Just raising/lowering numbers can actually make the experience worse.
For character action games for example it's usually a barrier not just to finish stages but to feel cool while doing so. If you put in a mode where everything dies in one hit anyone can finish your game but they don't feel strong while doing it and thus come across with a poorer feeling of the game. That is why games like Devil May Cry and Bayonetta have "automatic" modes where button mashing makes cool combos automatically for you. However making sure these combos work right is an involved task.
Likewise, for example, a racing game is difficult to rebalance because 'make everything go slower' isn't really very fun because part of the appeal of racing games is the back and forth. You need to adjust the racer AI so it still seems to provide a challenge, which usually involves adjusting rubberbanding and finding the sweet spot there is very hard.
Or look at something like Silent Hill, where the story and atmosphere are a big part of the game. Maybe someone enjoys SH for the puzzles and the atmosphere but isn't big on the (usually pretty crappy) combat, or alternately maybe someone really enjoys the atmosphere but doesn't like getting roadblocked by puzzles. Silent Hill resolved this by having separate difficulty levels for combat and puzzles but that isn't just 'adjusting numbers' and a mere easy/normal/hard doesn't necessarily solve what is blocking people.
In fact that's a big problem with a lot of easy modes. They adjust enemy HP/damage and nothing else which only really works for pure combat focused games. Mega Man for example isn't going to necessarily be easier for people who have trouble with it if all the enemies have half health and you do double damage if the thing people have trouble with is the basic platforming. Mega Man 10 tried to solve this by reducing the number of pits on its easy mode but it arguably went too far and had a negative impact on the game.
Regardless, you can't just tweak numbers and be done with it. You need to figure out how to make the game easier while retaining your game's strengths and that can be a real challenge.
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Apr 14, 2019 08:06
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- Hogge Wild
- Aug 21, 2012
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by FactsAreUseless
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Pillbug
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It really isn't.
Finding the correct balance between "easy" and "boring" is difficult and varies heavily from game to game, and making an easy mode that keeps the game fun to play is actually really really hard. You need to figure out what the main appeal of your game is and figure out how to preserve that. Just raising/lowering numbers can actually make the experience worse.
For character action games for example it's usually a barrier not just to finish stages but to feel cool while doing so. If you put in a mode where everything dies in one hit anyone can finish your game but they don't feel strong while doing it and thus come across with a poorer feeling of the game. That is why games like Devil May Cry and Bayonetta have "automatic" modes where button mashing makes cool combos automatically for you. However making sure these combos work right is an involved task.
Likewise, for example, a racing game is difficult to rebalance because 'make everything go slower' isn't really very fun because part of the appeal of racing games is the back and forth. You need to adjust the racer AI so it still seems to provide a challenge, which usually involves adjusting rubberbanding and finding the sweet spot there is very hard.
Or look at something like Silent Hill, where the story and atmosphere are a big part of the game. Maybe someone enjoys SH for the puzzles and the atmosphere but isn't big on the (usually pretty crappy) combat, or alternately maybe someone really enjoys the atmosphere but doesn't like getting roadblocked by puzzles. Silent Hill resolved this by having separate difficulty levels for combat and puzzles but that isn't just 'adjusting numbers' and a mere easy/normal/hard doesn't necessarily solve what is blocking people.
In fact that's a big problem with a lot of easy modes. They adjust enemy HP/damage and nothing else which only really works for pure combat focused games. Mega Man for example isn't going to necessarily be easier for people who have trouble with it if all the enemies have half health and you do double damage if the thing people have trouble with is the basic platforming. Mega Man 10 tried to solve this by reducing the number of pits on its easy mode but it arguably went too far and had a negative impact on the game.
Regardless, you can't just tweak numbers and be done with it. You need to figure out how to make the game easier while retaining your game's strengths and that can be a real challenge.
nah
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Apr 14, 2019 08:06
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- jesus WEP
- Oct 17, 2004
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It really isn't.
Finding the correct balance between "easy" and "boring" is difficult and varies heavily from game to game, and making an easy mode that keeps the game fun to play is actually really really hard. You need to figure out what the main appeal of your game is and figure out how to preserve that. Just raising/lowering numbers can actually make the experience worse.
For character action games for example it's usually a barrier not just to finish stages but to feel cool while doing so. If you put in a mode where everything dies in one hit anyone can finish your game but they don't feel strong while doing it and thus come across with a poorer feeling of the game. That is why games like Devil May Cry and Bayonetta have "automatic" modes where button mashing makes cool combos automatically for you. However making sure these combos work right is an involved task.
Likewise, for example, a racing game is difficult to rebalance because 'make everything go slower' isn't really very fun because part of the appeal of racing games is the back and forth. You need to adjust the racer AI so it still seems to provide a challenge, which usually involves adjusting rubberbanding and finding the sweet spot there is very hard.
Or look at something like Silent Hill, where the story and atmosphere are a big part of the game. Maybe someone enjoys SH for the puzzles and the atmosphere but isn't big on the (usually pretty crappy) combat, or alternately maybe someone really enjoys the atmosphere but doesn't like getting roadblocked by puzzles. Silent Hill resolved this by having separate difficulty levels for combat and puzzles but that isn't just 'adjusting numbers' and a mere easy/normal/hard doesn't necessarily solve what is blocking people.
In fact that's a big problem with a lot of easy modes. They adjust enemy HP/damage and nothing else which only really works for pure combat focused games. Mega Man for example isn't going to necessarily be easier for people who have trouble with it if all the enemies have half health and you do double damage if the thing people have trouble with is the basic platforming. Mega Man 10 tried to solve this by reducing the number of pits on its easy mode but it arguably went too far and had a negative impact on the game.
Regardless, you can't just tweak numbers and be done with it. You need to figure out how to make the game easier while retaining your game's strengths and that can be a real challenge.
Edit: For some reason I thought this was a different thread, please forgive me lack of meme and wall of boring text.
sir,
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Apr 14, 2019 08:10
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- Second Hand Meat Mouth
- Sep 12, 2001
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It really isn't.
Finding the correct balance between "easy" and "boring" is difficult and varies heavily from game to game, and making an easy mode that keeps the game fun to play is actually really really hard. You need to figure out what the main appeal of your game is and figure out how to preserve that. Just raising/lowering numbers can actually make the experience worse.
For character action games for example it's usually a barrier not just to finish stages but to feel cool while doing so. If you put in a mode where everything dies in one hit anyone can finish your game but they don't feel strong while doing it and thus come across with a poorer feeling of the game. That is why games like Devil May Cry and Bayonetta have "automatic" modes where button mashing makes cool combos automatically for you. However making sure these combos work right is an involved task.
Likewise, for example, a racing game is difficult to rebalance because 'make everything go slower' isn't really very fun because part of the appeal of racing games is the back and forth. You need to adjust the racer AI so it still seems to provide a challenge, which usually involves adjusting rubberbanding and finding the sweet spot there is very hard.
Or look at something like Silent Hill, where the story and atmosphere are a big part of the game. Maybe someone enjoys SH for the puzzles and the atmosphere but isn't big on the (usually pretty crappy) combat, or alternately maybe someone really enjoys the atmosphere but doesn't like getting roadblocked by puzzles. Silent Hill resolved this by having separate difficulty levels for combat and puzzles but that isn't just 'adjusting numbers' and a mere easy/normal/hard doesn't necessarily solve what is blocking people.
In fact that's a big problem with a lot of easy modes. They adjust enemy HP/damage and nothing else which only really works for pure combat focused games. Mega Man for example isn't going to necessarily be easier for people who have trouble with it if all the enemies have half health and you do double damage if the thing people have trouble with is the basic platforming. Mega Man 10 tried to solve this by reducing the number of pits on its easy mode but it arguably went too far and had a negative impact on the game.
Regardless, you can't just tweak numbers and be done with it. You need to figure out how to make the game easier while retaining your game's strengths and that can be a real challenge.
hmm
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Apr 14, 2019 08:18
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- bare bottom pancakes
- Sep 3, 2015
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Production: Complete
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Agreed, both on your point of easy not being an easy thing to make, and on this being the worst thread for that discussion.
meme: https://twitter.com/itanimeirl/status/1112790459682684929
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Apr 14, 2019 08:49
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- JcDent
- May 13, 2013
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Give me a rifle, one round, and point me at Berlin!
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That said, it has come out of a few videos of people whose job it is to play and review games being worse at them than your tech-illiterate grandmother.
Thread remembers Polygon, I see.
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Apr 14, 2019 08:59
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- Ghost Leviathan
- Mar 2, 2017
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Exploration is ill-advised.
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tl;dr it's like saying a movie needs to be '20% funnier'.
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Apr 14, 2019 09:13
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- Irradiation
- Sep 14, 2005
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I understand your frustration.
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God those hanger comments really are always loving trash.
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Apr 14, 2019 14:42
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- Jamesman
- Nov 19, 2004
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"First off, let me start by saying curly light blond hair does not suit Hyomin at all. Furthermore,"
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Fun Shoe
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It took all day for them to build up a 2-foot-tall mound of sand?
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Apr 14, 2019 15:19
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- JcDent
- May 13, 2013
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Give me a rifle, one round, and point me at Berlin!
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Wot's Resilar?
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Apr 14, 2019 16:59
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- Last Chance
- Dec 31, 2004
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Cough syrup
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Apr 14, 2019 17:00
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- theflyingorc
- Jun 28, 2008
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ANY GOOD OPINIONS THIS POSTER CLAIMS TO HAVE ARE JUST PROOF THAT BULLYING WORKS
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Young Orc
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That's exactly the kind of difficulty setting everyone hates and is considered lazy and ineffective, especially since it rarely makes the game significantly easier or harder but just more tedious. And it wouldn't work for a game like say, Cuphead, where changing the difficulty is a matter of changing attack patterns and such, which requires additional playtesting.
That is not most games.
Controlling difficulty can be done pretty easily through numbers, especially in numbers-driven titles like Sekiro. Modifying the damage you do and take by 20% would have a huge impact on difficulty.
A lot of games do this horrendously by just giving the enemies more health - literally the worst way to do it - but it's seriously not a huge burden.
But yeah, i probably didn't learn anything during my ten years in the industry, thanks for explaining it to me
Edit: thanks other guy for bringing up racing games like that's relevant for some reason
theflyingorc has a new favorite as of 17:32 on Apr 14, 2019
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Apr 14, 2019 17:29
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- Legin Noslen
- Sep 9, 2004
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Fortified with Rhiboflavin
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That’s not it, Commander.
It very much is it, Spergs McKenzie.
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Apr 14, 2019 17:38
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- Standard Measure
- Sep 5, 2018
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by FactsAreUseless
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That is not most games.
Controlling difficulty can be done pretty easily through numbers, especially in numbers-driven titles like Sekiro. Modifying the damage you do and take by 20% would have a huge impact on difficulty.
A lot of games do this horrendously by just giving the enemies more health - literally the worst way to do it - but it's seriously not a huge burden.
But yeah, i probably didn't learn anything during my ten years in the industry, thanks for explaining it to me
Edit: thanks other guy for bringing up racing games like that's relevant for some reason
you're completely wrong.
But i guess my eleven years in the industry count for nothing
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Apr 14, 2019 20:57
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- Adbot
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ADBOT LOVES YOU
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Jun 5, 2024 09:04
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