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We know Maya led the Middle Army. The idea that this was a direct result of her being 'better' than Incubus at anything has no evidence. I mean, she was transparently more skilled at 'becoming leader of the Middle Army' but that's it. Mottom got her Key by stabbing her husband through the eye while he slept. Mammon bought his. The only requirement to take power is taking it; there is no barrier of skill or virtue. If the other demiurges claim Incubus doesn't deserve his throne, they do so to pretend they deserve theirs.
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Apr 14, 2019 00:31
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What's really interesting to me is that we don't yet know exactly what take Auntie Maya has on Meti's philosophy today, or which of them was really the wiser.
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Apr 14, 2019 01:17
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Rand Brittain posted:What's really interesting to me is that we don't yet know exactly what take Auntie Maya has on Meti's philosophy today, or which of them was really the wiser.
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Apr 14, 2019 02:15
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Apr 14, 2019 02:28
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Have we figured out which one of them is Storm Shadow and which one is Snake Eyes yet?
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Apr 14, 2019 02:54
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nobody ever talks about the philosophers who were content to agree w their masters
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Apr 14, 2019 03:17
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Joe Slowboat posted:We know Maya led the Middle Army. The idea that this was a direct result of her being 'better' than Incubus at anything has no evidence. I mean, she was transparently more skilled at 'becoming leader of the Middle Army' but that's it. Mottom got her Key by stabbing her husband through the eye while he slept. Mammon bought his. The only requirement to take power is taking it; there is no barrier of skill or virtue. If the other demiurges claim Incubus doesn't deserve his throne, they do so to pretend they deserve theirs.
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Apr 14, 2019 03:25
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Rand Brittain posted:What's really interesting to me is that we don't yet know exactly what take Auntie Maya has on Meti's philosophy today, or which of them was really the wiser.
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Apr 14, 2019 03:34
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everybody dies eventually dude
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Apr 14, 2019 03:47
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that argument presumes that living is wisdom EDIT: NOTE: k6bdposting not sadposting
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Apr 14, 2019 03:47
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PMush Perfect posted:After these last few pages, my best prediction is "completely misses the point." I dunno, "I wish I could say I was a noodle vendor, but unfortunately instead I Cut things really good" seems like she got it, albeit late.
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Apr 14, 2019 03:50
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It seems from casual glance that Meti's training methods produces one or two type of warriors. Either someone absolutely disgusted by the sword, very good at cutting not much else. And/Or a megalomaniac.
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Apr 14, 2019 03:54
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There's probably some story behind Incubus behind the eternally disrepected upstart, but it might be as simple as the Demiurges needing a pecking order and "who the hell is this benchwarmer and when is Maya coming back?" enough of a sentiment to designate him as the lowest on it.
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Apr 14, 2019 04:40
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they all hate each other, having a bottom bitch to communally piss on wasnt inevitable but certainly always likely
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Apr 14, 2019 06:18
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If Sword Law is suffering, and Maya hates Incubus ...did she leave him the key knowing it'd make him miserable?
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Apr 14, 2019 06:34
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reach heaven through spite
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Apr 14, 2019 06:43
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Fish Noise posted:If Sword Law is suffering, and Maya hates Incubus The ultimate revenge
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Apr 14, 2019 06:44
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Fish Noise posted:If Sword Law is suffering, and Maya hates Incubus Honestly that's believable but also I'm pretty sure Maya made herself just as miserable, as a true student of Meti would. Like, she significantly overestimated her own ability to not give a gently caress, and now when she sees the key in Allison's skull she joins the Pursuers because it turns out she never kicked the omniversal devastation habit. This whole backstory is fantastic and I can't wait for Allison to YEET herself through Maya and Incubus' legendary rivalry by pure accident, somehow exploding it more than either of them thought possible.
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Apr 14, 2019 06:47
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Maybe she'll take a more active interest in Allison (besides the "idly joining a mob of killers to hunt her" time-waster) whe she realizes who's her mentor. I can't wait to see her smugness when Incubus's plans inevitably go to hell.
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Apr 14, 2019 07:28
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the maya training arc will only become the darkest after she discovers allisons been learning from incubus, clearly
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Apr 14, 2019 13:16
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Joe Slowboat posted:Honestly that's believable but also I'm pretty sure Maya made herself just as miserable, as a true student of Meti would. I always thought Maya was following Allison out of curiosity more than anything else. Giving a gently caress about possessing a key isn't really her style.
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Apr 14, 2019 15:01
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To me this whole flashback basically says that it's probably Incubus that understood the teachings, and Maya that didn't. Leading an army, for example, seems particularly un-Meti like. Also, even though her sword is broken, Maya uses it, while Incubus hasn't. He's also the sword master of the two. He doesn't actually fight. So maybe Maya wasn't royal enough to keep her key. Like, the point being that it's not good to be a master of the sword and true mastery makes you into the gross thing that Incubus is. Living in a pit of filth is an amplified version of being a drunk in a barrel.
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Apr 14, 2019 15:42
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I always assumed it was because Maya "Murder the gods and topple their thrones" was interested in disrupting the cosmic order and sees Allison as a good path to do that. I don't think she wants the key.
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Apr 14, 2019 15:52
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Given neither live naked in a barrel, I don't think either of them truly followed in Meti's footsteps. They both betrayed her lessons in their own ways.
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Apr 14, 2019 16:05
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Tenebrais posted:Given neither live naked in a barrel, I don't think either of them truly followed in Meti's footsteps. They both betrayed her lessons in their own ways. What is a tower but a very big barrel
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Apr 14, 2019 17:35
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Eglamore posted:To me this whole flashback basically says that it's probably Incubus that understood the teachings, and Maya that didn't. Leading an army, for example, seems particularly un-Meti like. Also, even though her sword is broken, Maya uses it, while Incubus hasn't. He's also the sword master of the two. He doesn't actually fight. So maybe Maya wasn't royal enough to keep her key.
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Apr 14, 2019 17:58
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I mean, did Meti actually accomplish anything? Being the most like Meti isn't the same as winning.
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Apr 14, 2019 18:19
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Yeah, let's not assume Meti was perfectly correct in all things.
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Apr 14, 2019 18:20
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Lemony posted:I always assumed it was because Maya "Murder the gods and topple their thrones" was interested in disrupting the cosmic order and sees Allison as a good path to do that. I don't think she wants the key. Her brief chat with Allison early on would suggest that she's really not interested in the key for herself. The proverb she recites about the pebble is encouraging in it's own way. Though, as Maya herself reminds, both she and Meti have a history of being habitual drunks, so their advice should be taken with a grain of salt, if at all. Sherry Bahm fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Apr 14, 2019 |
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Apr 14, 2019 18:35
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There is no real reason to think that miss 'the only way to Sword Good is to only know cutting any nothing else' would be good enough at teaching that her lessons actually impart what they are intended to.
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Apr 14, 2019 18:38
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Tin Can Hit Man posted:Her brief chat with Allison early on would suggest that she's really not interested in the key for herself. The proverb she recites about the pebble is encouraging in it's own way. And she tells Allison she's doing very well with the teleporting given how short she's been learning and should keep trying hard! It's also implied she directly attacks Juggernaut Star to keep him from pursuing Allison, although keeping him from the key could be self-serving as well.
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Apr 14, 2019 18:50
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Maya referring to the other pursuers as "a parade of fools" would also suggest that she's not in it for the same reasons they are. But again, she could just as easily be including herself in that list of fools.
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Apr 14, 2019 18:55
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Joe Slowboat posted:We know Maya led the Middle Army. The idea that this was a direct result of her being 'better' than Incubus at anything has no evidence. I mean, she was transparently more skilled at 'becoming leader of the Middle Army' but that's it. Mottom got her Key by stabbing her husband through the eye while he slept. Mammon bought his. The only requirement to take power is taking it; there is no barrier of skill or virtue. If the other demiurges claim Incubus doesn't deserve his throne, they do so to pretend they deserve theirs. I'm pretty sure that Incubus got his key from the ruler of the middle army. I mean, I guess that there could have been an intermediate ruler of the middle army but that seems like bad story.telling.
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Apr 14, 2019 19:24
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Who What Now posted:I'm pretty sure that Incubus got his key from the ruler of the middle army. I mean, I guess that there could have been an intermediate ruler of the middle army but that seems like bad story.telling. Yes, and...? My point is that the idea of 'legitimacy' in becoming a demiurge is hilariously inapplicable. Incubus' legitimacy crisis is in his own head and how the other demiurges behave towards him, there's no reason to believe it reflects any kind of moral or spiritual state that all the other demiurges would equally fail to possess. Nobody can 'earn' being a multiversal ruler. They can at best be qualified to do it well, though I also question how 'well' one can rule a universe beyond abdicating and going to have a tea shop, which neatly removes you from the category. Maya's abdication, not her path to power, is what might set her above Incubus. E: I do think it's likely Incubus showed up for the final confrontation with Maya and didn't get the fight he wanted, so all the other demiurges go 'well she would have won if she fought you' but that doesn't actually show anything about his moral or spiritual worth or capacity compared to hers. The idea that there's a clear distinction between the rest of them and Incubus seems frankly against the themes of the comic, which include 'extraordinarily powerful savants make decisions for the same dumb reasons other people do, and the only thing power proves is that you have power.' Incubus could be the most subtle, competent, and philosophically minded demiurge, a true hero who followed his master's teachings utterly (which, clearly he's not) but it wouldn't ensure he got respect or was understood by his peers. And he doesn't seem able to handle that. Joe Slowboat fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Apr 14, 2019 |
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Apr 14, 2019 19:39
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Solomon David spells it out: Succession and legitimacy is decided by violence and violence alone. Laws and morality have nothing to do with it.
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Apr 14, 2019 19:58
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personally i don't believe a single word anyone says in this comic or the text beneath unless it was aesma
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Apr 14, 2019 20:14
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Patware posted:personally i don't believe a single word anyone says in this comic or the text beneath unless it was aesma
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Apr 14, 2019 20:17
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Well, let's see what happens to people that attain Royalty. One of them lives in a barrel for years and eventually is killed by her own student. One gets beheaded by angels in the middle of bumfuck nowhere after causing a literally universal war. One is a dick that treats his daughter like poo poo and gets his head beat in for smoking too much. Royalty kind of sucks. Noodle vending is absolutely a better alternative.
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Apr 14, 2019 20:49
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Tollymain posted:nobody ever talks about the philosophers who were content to agree w their masters Excluding Plato and Aristotle.
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Apr 14, 2019 23:40
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SunAndSpring posted:What is a tower but a very big barrel 
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Apr 15, 2019 00:42
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