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Paolomania
Apr 26, 2006

I had posts that long preceding my regdate on the old planetquake network forums from the time that SA was "that weird site that JeffK posts on".

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Careful Drums
Oct 30, 2007

by FactsAreUseless
I'm finally at the end of my on-site onboarding and start remote Monday morning :woop:

Janitor Prime
Jan 22, 2004

PC LOAD LETTER

What da fuck does that mean

Fun Shoe

Careful Drums posted:

I'm finally at the end of my on-site onboarding and start remote Monday morning :woop:

High five I just started this Monday

xpander
Sep 2, 2004

Janitor Prime posted:

High five I just started this Monday

What's up, started-new-job-on-April-Fools buddy? I hope your new gig is as promising as mine! Anyone else starting down the path to a glorious new future this month? (Shoutout to Careful Drums, it's been quite the saga to read!)

Portland Sucks
Dec 21, 2004
༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

xpander posted:

What's up, started-new-job-on-April-Fools buddy? I hope your new gig is as promising as mine! Anyone else starting down the path to a glorious new future this month? (Shoutout to Careful Drums, it's been quite the saga to read!)

My onsite on-boarding starts at the end of this month, and I'll be starting my new remote job a week after that. Trying to put in my notice today, but I can't freaking find anyone to even tell.

Guinness
Sep 15, 2004

Yesterday was my last day, and this morning has been the first day of "unemployment" for a couple weeks until I start at my new gig on the 22nd. Feels great, man.

The way timing works out, my last two paychecks will reflect a 6% raise from my annual performance review that I didn't really have to do since I gave notice. But that's paltry compared to the ~45-50% total comp increase I'm looking at (almost 220 with RSUs+bonus). Plus I'm just way more excited about the work, and the office is within walking distance so no more car commuting! So fuckin stoked ahhhhhh.

Guinness fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Apr 5, 2019

Keetron
Sep 26, 2008

Check out my enormous testicles in my TFLC log!

Guinness posted:

and the office is within walking distance so no more car commuting! So fuckin stoked ahhhhhh.

Massive perk right there.

leper khan
Dec 28, 2010
Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.

Keetron posted:

Massive perk right there.

I just moved to give that perk to myself. Its great.

Slimy Hog
Apr 22, 2008

leper khan posted:

I just moved to give that perk to myself. Its great.

I just work from home 4 days a week. No commuting for me!

Portland Sucks
Dec 21, 2004
༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

leper khan posted:

I just moved to give that perk to myself. Its great.

I just did the same thing, then ended up getting an offer on a fully remote job. So now I live really close to the place I'm leaving and I won't have a commute?

I wish I did this in the opposite order. :confuoot:

Careful Drums
Oct 30, 2007

by FactsAreUseless

xpander posted:

What's up, started-new-job-on-April-Fools buddy? I hope your new gig is as promising as mine! Anyone else starting down the path to a glorious new future this month? (Shoutout to Careful Drums, it's been quite the saga to read!)

Thanks - I'm glad to hear you got something out of it. I decided to post the whole effort because I wanted to share what it took to get a remote job from where I was coming from. Too many blog posts sell it like working remote is this easy-peasy thing. But for me it took five months, a ton of stress, and some good luck with old friends in good places.

Tinestram
Jan 13, 2006

Excalibur? More like "Needle"

Grimey Drawer
Two recruiters I spoke with today: "Are you speaking with anybody else right now?"

Me: *checks to see if anybody is waiting on another line* Nope.

Hughlander
May 11, 2005

runupon cracker posted:

Two recruiters I spoke with today: "Are you speaking with anybody else right now?"

Me: *checks to see if anybody is waiting on another line* Nope.

I always go the opposite. Yes, I am. And they're further along than you. (Better pull out the stops to catch up or you lose.)

Tinestram
Jan 13, 2006

Excalibur? More like "Needle"

Grimey Drawer

Hughlander posted:

I always go the opposite. Yes, I am. And they're further along than you. (Better pull out the stops to catch up or you lose.)

The only problem with that is that they tend to ask annoying follow-up questions and ain't nobody got time for that.

GeorgieMordor
Jan 23, 2015
Does anyone have any experience pivoting out of software development? Was it successful? Fun? Fulfilling?

I wouldn't say I'm burnt out, though I've been searching for a full-time gig for a minute now and finding my skills are more catered to a smaller, scrappy firm as opposed to the established engineering teams, and I'm having a hard time finding those scrappy firms in my market. To boot, that may not even be something my current work/life balance can accommodate now that I've got a family and child.

I feel like if there's opportunity and growth for it, I'm better using my experience and knowledge in another, better-applied position than an engineer if that's the case.

Vulture Culture
Jul 14, 2003

I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.

runupon cracker posted:

The only problem with that is that they tend to ask annoying follow-up questions and ain't nobody got time for that.
You're always interviewing with Spotify

spiritual bypass
Feb 19, 2008

Grimey Drawer

GeorgieMordor posted:

Does anyone have any experience pivoting out of software development? Was it successful? Fun? Fulfilling?

Having the right combination of technical and social skills has landed me in technical sales, where I help prospective buyers evaluate our server product and also help new users get online. It's pretty fun and allows me to be technical without the grind of software development.

Careful Drums
Oct 30, 2007

by FactsAreUseless

rt4 posted:

Having the right combination of technical and social skills has landed me in technical sales, where I help prospective buyers evaluate our server product and also help new users get online. It's pretty fun and allows me to be technical without the grind of software development.

I've known a few people that went this path and they all seemed happy with the choice. Seems like it would be a huge advantage to work in sales with a technical background - as long as you can do all the usual extroverted sales stuff too.

On a related note, a sales person at my new job recently left to go to Amazon. It wasn't that he didn't like our company, it's that he was getting paid $300k to sell for Amazon instead of the "piddly" 150k or so for us.

User
May 3, 2002

by FactsAreUseless
Nap Ghost

runupon cracker posted:

The only problem with that is that they tend to ask annoying follow-up questions and ain't nobody got time for that.

And you say so, and it's part of the game

Careful Drums posted:

I've known a few people that went this path and they all seemed happy with the choice. Seems like it would be a huge advantage to work in sales with a technical background - as long as you can do all the usual extroverted sales stuff too.

On a related note, a sales person at my new job recently left to go to Amazon. It wasn't that he didn't like our company, it's that he was getting paid $300k to sell for Amazon instead of the "piddly" 150k or so for us.

Is that cash on the barrelhead or "total compensation?" Because the Amazon recruiter I was talking to recently said they cap cash money salary around 165.

User fucked around with this message at 09:55 on Apr 11, 2019

jiggerypokery
Feb 1, 2012

...But I could hardly wait six months with a red hot jape like that under me belt.

Anyone else team leads/remote and struggling to learn and improve in the way they did when they had more experienced people around?

Adhemar
Jan 21, 2004

Kellner, da ist ein scheussliches Biest in meiner Suppe.

User posted:

Is that cash on the barrelhead or "total compensation?" Because the Amazon recruiter I was talking to recently said they cap cash money salary around 165.

This is correct. Cap depends on location, but 300k would have to be total comp.

Careful Drums
Oct 30, 2007

by FactsAreUseless

User posted:

And you say so, and it's part of the game


Is that cash on the barrelhead or "total compensation?" Because the Amazon recruiter I was talking to recently said they cap cash money salary around 165.

It must have been "total compensation". I'm not up on the details.

tortilla_chip
Jun 13, 2007

k-partite
I think it's a byproduct of the IRS definition for highly compensated employees and the test for 401k deferrals.

GeorgieMordor
Jan 23, 2015

rt4 posted:

Having the right combination of technical and social skills has landed me in technical sales, where I help prospective buyers evaluate our server product and also help new users get online. It's pretty fun and allows me to be technical without the grind of software development.

Interesting. I've been kind of curious about this actually. Do you have any more info you're willing to share about how you made the leap? What kind of new things you found useful to learn, and what adjustments or hiccups you found in switching to "the other side"?

In my experience the engineering sales dynamic has been sales sells what doesn't exist yet, and then engineers scramble to build it for the customer. In a perfect world I'd figure a salesperson with a technical background would alleviate a lot of this, but I was never sure if that's how it actually shook out.

Keetron
Sep 26, 2008

Check out my enormous testicles in my TFLC log!

GeorgieMordor posted:

In my experience the engineering sales dynamic has been sales sells what doesn't exist yet, and then engineers scramble to build it for the customer.

The problem with any other model is that the product hardly ever meets the costumer's (unreasonable) requirements. This way, there is at least some revenue from a source that would spend their money at a place with better liars.

Adhemar
Jan 21, 2004

Kellner, da ist ein scheussliches Biest in meiner Suppe.

tortilla_chip posted:

I think it's a byproduct of the IRS definition for highly compensated employees and the test for 401k deferrals.

If it is, its not working, because we fail that test every year. Its just that much of the full time employees compensation is from stock (RSUs). Total comp = base + signing bonus + RSU vest.

spiritual bypass
Feb 19, 2008

Grimey Drawer

GeorgieMordor posted:

Interesting. I've been kind of curious about this actually. Do you have any more info you're willing to share about how you made the leap? What kind of new things you found useful to learn, and what adjustments or hiccups you found in switching to "the other side"?

In my experience the engineering sales dynamic has been sales sells what doesn't exist yet, and then engineers scramble to build it for the customer. In a perfect world I'd figure a salesperson with a technical background would alleviate a lot of this, but I was never sure if that's how it actually shook out.

An actual salesperson still makes the deals, but one of the things I do is protect the customer and the company by setting the right expectations. When I'm working with a prospect, I show them how our product might make life easier (and it really does for the vast majority of cases). The twin responsibility is to probe for oddities in the use case in order to disqualify users who would never be happy.

We're a legit company who wants long term relationships and the recurring revenue that comes with it, not just to make a quick buck from anyone with their wallet open.

I can't say how it works in a "normal" situation. At my company, I took on some training type duties because the other techies don't like talking to customers. Turns out getting paid to do computerchat is more fun than tracking down obscure concurrency problems. When the existing technical sales person was promoted, I took on his old duties and my role evolved. I'm sure it'll change again in a year or two since that's how things are at a growing operation.

GeorgieMordor
Jan 23, 2015

rt4 posted:

An actual salesperson still makes the deals, but one of the things I do is protect the customer and the company by setting the right expectations. When I'm working with a prospect, I show them how our product might make life easier (and it really does for the vast majority of cases). The twin responsibility is to probe for oddities in the use case in order to disqualify users who would never be happy.

We're a legit company who wants long term relationships and the recurring revenue that comes with it, not just to make a quick buck from anyone with their wallet open.

I can't say how it works in a "normal" situation. At my company, I took on some training type duties because the other techies don't like talking to customers. Turns out getting paid to do computerchat is more fun than tracking down obscure concurrency problems. When the existing technical sales person was promoted, I took on his old duties and my role evolved. I'm sure it'll change again in a year or two since that's how things are at a growing operation.

Nice -- thanks for all the info! This is super useful.

You made this switch-up at a company you'd been at already as an engineer? Or did you start fresh at a new gig in on the sales team?

spiritual bypass
Feb 19, 2008

Grimey Drawer
I made a lateral move from a more technical role into a "sales engineer" type of thing. We have a sales team, but I'm not part of it. Instead, I work with them once they've done some basic qualification. Someone on my team also has to approve each of the new deals for our upper product tiers to prevent disasters.

For example, a totally clueless customer can become a support nightmare. If the idea of using an ssh key scares your lead dev, this might not be the server product for you! Those bad customers can actually cost the company money if the product they bought isn't expensive enough to justify the support investment. They also generate unfavorable word of mouth.

In a legit operation, every team should be working to keep the customer happy to some reasonable degree. We do not control their feelings, but we can at least take care that the product does what it says on the label. If management views customers as rubes for fleecing, then they're sure to view employees the same way.

Ither
Jan 30, 2010

In a contract to perm situation, is it common for your salary (base compensation) to stay the same or even get smaller when the conversion happens?

In my experience, your base pay goes up. But I've been talking to people, and they're saying that's not the norm.

Xik
Mar 10, 2011

Dinosaur Gum
Going from a contractor to a permanent role? Every one I've ever spoken to has always taken a non-trivial hit to their pay when they went permanent.

The decision is usually based on gaining a large amount of job security since we have employee protection laws that largely don't apply to contractors. The higher contract pay is generally considered to be mostly "risk pay" and to cater for the fact they get no paid holidays.

Keetron
Sep 26, 2008

Check out my enormous testicles in my TFLC log!

Xik posted:

Going from a contractor to a permanent role? Every one I've ever spoken to has always taken a non-trivial hit to their pay when they went permanent.

The decision is usually based on gaining a large amount of job security since we have employee protection laws that largely don't apply to contractors. The higher contract pay is generally considered to be mostly "risk pay" and to cater for the fact they get no paid holidays.

Yes, same here (Netherlands) so when I explain to recruiters that my perm pay is higher than my contract fee because I value independence and autonomy, I am met with surprise. Some years age, when the credit crunch hit many people who thought they had job security, had none as they could be let go easily for "economic reasons". So the job security is a fake benefit and we are in a field with much higher demand than supply. It turns out many people are ok with being permanent as they do not want the hassle of independent contracting such as sales, complicated taxes and bookkeeping.

asur
Dec 28, 2012
If you're a 1099 contractor I'd expect your pay to go down as you should have given a rate that covered self employment taxes, healthcare, vacation, etc. A W-2 employee at a contracting firm is probably getting paid less so I'd expect it to stay the same with better benefits or increase.

Xik
Mar 10, 2011

Dinosaur Gum

Keetron posted:

So the job security is a fake benefit
Yeah in some ways this is true here. You can be made redundant or org can go through a "restructure". In theory they have to be careful with a restructure or redundancy, new roles can't be too similar or contain largely the same responsibilities as the old ones. In practice, people don't complain because they would usually get a fat payout and the (IT) market has been an employee's market for a quite some time.

Software developer seems to be one of the few that have "real" job security in the sense you can't exactly remove the role unless the org stops writing software in house.

Tinestram
Jan 13, 2006

Excalibur? More like "Needle"

Grimey Drawer

rt4 posted:

If the idea of using an ssh key scares your lead dev, this might not be the server product for you!

If the idea of using an ssh key scares your lead dev, get a better lead dev wtf

Keetron
Sep 26, 2008

Check out my enormous testicles in my TFLC log!

runupon cracker posted:

If the idea of using an ssh key scares your lead dev, get a better lead dev wtf

Do you have any idea what they cost? And George has been with the company for almost 25 years! I remember hiring him as a janitor. He really worked hard to get here, so I now have him lead all IT related stuff, that is right up his alley. I mean, cleaning keyboards or writing code is such a small step.

LLSix
Jan 20, 2010

The real power behind countless overlords

I had a phone screen interview with a "startup" that has 17 C-level execs listed on their about page and 2 engineers (1 HW, 1SW). I can't imagine them ever actually making anything.

JawnV6
Jul 4, 2004

So hot ...

LLSix posted:

2 engineers (1 HW, 1SW)
they'd be fun to talk to

Keetron
Sep 26, 2008

Check out my enormous testicles in my TFLC log!

LLSix posted:

17 C-level execs

Are there even that many abbreviations?


LLSix posted:

I can't imagine them ever actually making anything.
I think they make stories to sell to VC's for monies. Eventually this is what many startups are about.

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Hughlander
May 11, 2005

Keetron posted:

Are there even that many abbreviations?

Executive, Finance, People, Marketing, Operations, Product, Information, Security, Creative, Technology, Brand, Investment, Compliance, Legal, drat only 14 I could think of.

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