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Yeah mostly same, I'm expecting it to end with Holden sacrificing himself to permanently shut down the ring system and humanity having to fend for itself, presumably there'll be an arc about trying to frantically make last minute arrangements to get as many of the 1300+ systems self-sufficient as we can before the gates go down, probably tearful separations as various characters are trapped apart from each other, ends on a bittersweet but ultimately hopeful note, maybe with the construction of a starship in Sol for the poetic symmetry with the Nauvoo? That's probably too speculative, but I definitely feel like this is gonna end with dead/MIA Holden and a non-functional gate system.
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Apr 13, 2019 06:07
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I think that feels a little too neat, like resetting things back to how they were in the first book. Whatever the ending is, it will leave the status quo altered in some important way so that Sol doesn't snap right back to Earth-Mars-Belt tension.
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Apr 13, 2019 16:56
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Crazycryodude posted:Yeah mostly same, I'm expecting it to end with Holden sacrificing himself to permanently shut down the ring system and humanity having to fend for itself, presumably there'll be an arc about trying to frantically make last minute arrangements to get as many of the 1300+ systems self-sufficient as we can before the gates go down, probably tearful separations as various characters are trapped apart from each other, ends on a bittersweet but ultimately hopeful note, maybe with the construction of a starship in Sol for the poetic symmetry with the Nauvoo? That's probably too speculative, but I definitely feel like this is gonna end with dead/MIA Holden and a non-functional gate system. This seems the most natural way to go, which might mean they'll do something else! The Nauvoo symmetry is particularly good here, though, for many reasons.
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Apr 13, 2019 18:00
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The spin off legal non-thriller we'll never get is the wheels falling off the case against Tycho when the Mormons realize that they just dodged a bullet
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Apr 15, 2019 23:13
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What if Miller's Ticks On A Dog line are more accurate than you think?? What if we exist on the rear end of a giant goth, and when we use Prototech it makes it itch and it reacts by scratching
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Apr 15, 2019 23:14
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Phi230 posted:What if Miller's Ticks On A Dog line are more accurate than you think?? The Goth response really does seem like changing pest control chemicals when a new species of ants moves in.
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Apr 15, 2019 23:23
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Or all 1300 planets moved the goldilocks zone in sol system.
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Apr 16, 2019 01:29
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Lord Hydronium posted:I felt while reading the last book that they were coming across as way too powerful, but with this one we see they're really kind of a paper tiger. They have a few badass ships, but like a lot of other imperial powers, once they get past the shock and awe phase holding onto that territory becomes a whole different matter. All their apparent strengths have become weaknesses. Their entire basis for power projection is the Magnetars and Medina Station, and the moment they lose those the whole thing comes crashing down around them. "But if we don't conquer the entire known universe to unite all humanity to face this unknown threat then someone else could do something stupid like dump antimatter into an extradimensional alien's backyard". They really foreshadowed the obsession with game theory biting them in the rear end when lil' Monster Singh had a freakout over Theresa's science fair project. Also the Laconians really did make a reckless authoritarian fuckup, rushing forward with the plan to set off the antimatter plan right after their survey found something that could be used to reassess their strategy. What's the hurry? There was time to keep consolidating, and then put effort into unlocking the memory diamond, and then perform the antimatter test.
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Apr 16, 2019 05:11
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Phobophilia posted:Good points I hope that the authors have the spine that GRRM didn't and the books end with most of humanity dying out as the remaining crew of the Rocinante either dies too or watches in horror. Because humans just can't stop defecting.
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Apr 16, 2019 14:07
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Sarern posted:I hope that the authors have the spine that GRRM didn't and the books end
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Apr 16, 2019 14:13
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It's crazy that Leviathan Wakes came out only a month before A Dance With Dragons and the entire series will be done next year.
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Apr 16, 2019 14:25
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Lord Hydronium posted:It's crazy that Leviathan Wakes came out only a month before A Dance With Dragons and the entire series will be done next year. It is! But on the other hand there are two authors who spent their time writing these books.
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Apr 16, 2019 14:43
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I literally cannot wait to see a toddler go loving ballistic on Teresa on the TV show
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Apr 16, 2019 15:24
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Haha, yes. The big "gently caress you! I'm just going to flip the game table!" response should have been a big hint that the aliens might not respond completely logically to being antagonized.
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Apr 16, 2019 18:09
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Yeah. Antagonizing them makes no sense even from a game theory perspective. You want to punish them and see if it alters their behavior, okay...but why don't you realize they've been punishing you for gate overuse for decades, and you've changed your behavior to cooperate? Wouldn't you then realize that responding to a punishment with an escalation is going to look like a declaration of war? e: also it's unclear to me why they were so sure that antimatter would damage these aliens at all, given what we've seen of them and their existence
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Apr 16, 2019 18:18
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They're probably not even acting illogically, humans putting too much stuff through the gates is us defecting, and ships going Dutchman is them defecting. Once we figured that out, everything was cool. We had a perfectly cordial relationship for 30 years once the boundaries were established, and then out of nowhere (from their perspective anyways) we suddenly super-defected for no apparent reason. Retaliating is the logical response.
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Apr 16, 2019 18:19
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Yeah, that. Better put.
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Apr 16, 2019 18:20
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General Battuta posted:e: also it's unclear to me why they were so sure that antimatter would damage these aliens at all, given what we've seen of them and their existence Yeah same. Turns out, the megalomaniac fascist maybe isn't the smartest most rational being ever.
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Apr 16, 2019 18:21
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Like you'd know, idiot i'm defecting!!!
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Apr 16, 2019 18:32
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Crazycryodude posted:Yeah same. Turns out, the megalomaniac fascist maybe isn't the smartest most rational being ever. This. A guy who thinks he needs to be God-Emperor is maybe not the most thoughtful person.
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Apr 16, 2019 18:51
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General Battuta posted:Yeah. Antagonizing them makes no sense even from a game theory perspective. You want to punish them and see if it alters their behavior, okay...but why don't you realize they've been punishing you for gate overuse for decades, and you've changed your behavior to cooperate? Wouldn't you then realize that responding to a punishment with an escalation is going to look like a declaration of war? Because realizing that would mean also realizing that not only is Laconia not on equal footing with this other force, the balance of power between the sides is so unequal that it's maybe not even possible TO punish them.
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Apr 16, 2019 20:11
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Also, Laconia projects power over the rest of the systems in large part with a weapon that, when used, pisses off the Goths. Laconia wants to be able to use that weapon without repercussions, or it undercuts their authority over Sol et al. Enigma fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Apr 16, 2019 |
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Apr 16, 2019 21:14
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Sarern posted:It is! But on the other hand there are two authors who spent their time writing these books. But then again, Abraham also has a very active solo writing career. IIRC he turned out his entire Dragon & Coin series, which did not suck, while also keeping up the release pace for the Expanse.
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Apr 16, 2019 22:39
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Enigma posted:Also, Laconia projects power over the rest of the systems in large part with a weapon that, when used, pisses off the Goths. OR consolidate power, keep the threat of the superweapon on the back burner, use your political and economic leverage to keep tabs on other power players (Sol, the most successful colonies), and use your consolidation to build up conventional force projection.
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Apr 17, 2019 00:45
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They'd already proven that the field projector worked. It's not like the Sol governments knew about the bullet. If they'd used their time in power to build a couple dozen conventionally armed Magnetar-Potempkin ships no one would have known the difference.
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Apr 17, 2019 14:21
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On that note actually, are the Laconian ships designed by humans or are they printing them out from Gatebuilder designs stored in the shipyards? They take human missiles and PDC ammo and have hallways sized for humans, so presumably there's at least some choice in exactly what they can tell the printers to spit out, but do they have enough leeway to take the field projector out of the Magnetars and replace them with railgun batteries? Although even if they don't, a Magnetar was STILL enough to solo the entire combined fleets of Sol just off the missiles and railguns it came with, they didn't actually use the field projector until they vaporized Pallas after the fleets had already been owned, right?
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Apr 17, 2019 16:51
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I got the impression from the text that the Magnetar ships were already there along with the platforms and have been retrofitted for human things though I don't recall the specific passage. I think they could churn out those frigates though.
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Apr 17, 2019 20:22
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There was an unfinished ship at the shipyard when the Laconians found it (no indication as to what happened to it), and the subsequent ships are a mixture of human and precursor designs. The Laconians spent 30-40 years dicking around with the shipyard and can apparently crank out a Magnetar every few years (or figured the shipyard out in a short span of time and can only crank out a Magnetar every decade).
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Apr 17, 2019 22:02
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So how old are the characters in Book 8? I think the 30-year time skip puts most of the Rocinante crew in their 60s but they act like they're positively ancient despite being the real world equivalent of what, late 30s?
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Apr 22, 2019 01:13
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I can't recall any exact ages being given but the fact that Holden for example managed to have a whole Navy career before the start of the books means they're not all 20, I'd say The Gang are all mostly in their roughly mid-30's at the start of Book 1 I think? So by the time we're at Book 6 and it's been a few more years they're all more like late 30's, maybe closing in on 40? Then add the timeskip to that and everyone's probably 70-something, which yeah they have anti-agathics but that's still pretty drat old. While the meds do keep you in good enough shape to still be flying a spaceship at 75 they're by no means an immortality potion that freezes you at 25 forever, and even if their bodies are only middle aged their minds and life experiences are still 70+ so it makes sense that they're gonna act like they're old.
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Apr 22, 2019 03:25
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Crazycryodude posted:I can't recall any exact ages being given but the fact that Holden for example managed to have a whole Navy career before the start of the books means they're not all 20, I'd say The Gang are all mostly in their roughly mid-30's at the start of Book 1 I think? Holden is 30 at the start of the series, having served seven years in the UNN and five on the Cant. I didn't find anything definite on Naomi in a quick search. Amos starts the series in his 40s, having left Baltimore in his teens and served on ships for 25 years. Alex is also somewhere in his 40s, having served 20 years in the MCRN plus however many years on the Cant.
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Apr 22, 2019 04:08
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To me it definitely read more like someone in their late 30s finally realizing that they're not as in shape as they used to be and having to acknowledge that.
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Apr 22, 2019 05:06
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And also being a little confused by millennial culture
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Apr 22, 2019 06:06
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rewatching the teevee show the last few days, just got to Amos's conversation with Cortozar on Tycho. Really looking forward to seeing ol' Paolo make a comeback next season or the one after, i think the guy they cast for the role will do a great job with cortozar's growing power and hubris as the story unfolds
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Apr 25, 2019 02:55
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Finished Tiamat's Wrath earlier this week, and thoroughly enjoyed it. I had no idea that the novella detailed those repair drones so when they are first mentioned so casually the first time Teresa visits Timothy in the book I just assumed they were tech the Laconian's developed to assist with maintenance for campus and Duarte's grounds. That made Amos' appearance at the end so much more fun for me, even though I suspected it was going that route with the offhanded comment Cortazar makes about not bringing him the body. Can someone who has read the novella spoil the insight into these things? Are they remnants of whomever lived on Laconia before Duarte showed up?
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May 3, 2019 14:46
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hatelull posted:Finished Tiamat's Wrath earlier this week, and thoroughly enjoyed it. I had no idea that the novella detailed those repair drones so when they are first mentioned so casually the first time Teresa visits Timothy in the book I just assumed they were tech the Laconian's developed to assist with maintenance for campus and Duarte's grounds. That made Amos' appearance at the end so much more fun for me, even though I suspected it was going that route with the offhanded comment Cortazar makes about not bringing him the body. Cara and Xan were children of a pair of Laconia's first colonists, non-military. The repair drones are Roman/PM Builder/whatever-you-care-to-call-them artifacts that were already trundling around when the first humans landed. Cara discovered their ability to repair things when she accidentally killed a Laconian duck-analog animal, then accidentally broke her mother's quad-copter drone (human-built) trying to take care of its ducklings. The Roman repair bots fixed the human-tech drone and the mama duck right in front of her. Xan died in a vehicle accident not long after, hit by a Laconian military truck, and Cara took his body to the bots to fix. When she brought him back home all grey and black-eyed their family rejected him, so Cara ran off with Xan into the alien woods. Cortozar told Elvi the rest.
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May 3, 2019 15:02
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Hilariously the repair dog immortality appears to be more valuable than Duarte's version but because grey skin freaks people out more than florescent blue they're just ignoring a literal cure for death
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May 11, 2019 03:04
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I finally caught up on books 7 and 8 over the past week. I hated the Inaros storyline and found Babylon's Ashes a complete slog, but the latest two are my easily favorites so far. The plotting and prose felt a lot tighter, especially in TW. Plus I'm one of those freaks that loved book 4, so I was happy to see Elvi again. I don't know if the show will ever get this far, but I can only picture Giancarlo Esposito as Duarte Edit: VVVVV I kept picturing Gael Garcia Bernal as Inaros, specifically his performance in 2008's Blindness. Lester Shy fucked around with this message at 06:09 on May 15, 2019 |
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May 14, 2019 07:07
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Lester Shy posted:I finally caught up on books 7 and 8 over the past week. I hated the Inaros storyline and found Babylon's Ashes a complete slog, but the latest two are my easily favorites so far. The plotting and prose felt a lot tighter, especially in TW. Plus I'm one of those freaks that loved book 4, so I was happy to see Elvi again. Me too. And Michael Mando as Marco.
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May 14, 2019 08:23
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i can't help but picture Duarte as Jeff Bezos
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May 15, 2019 12:31
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