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Risky Bisquick posted:That much power and I/o puts it firmly up against high end spec pc’s. It’s going to be quite a powerful platform. Features yes, it is matching up against a high end PC quite well, but remember that a high end PC usually falls somewhere around 400-500w power consumption. This console should be good, but a high end PC of the same generation will still do all the same stuff three times faster for four times the energy cost.
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Apr 16, 2019 22:38
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So the PS5 is going to be like the PS3: powerful but also expensive (for a video game console) and AAA games will be more expensive to develop for it in order to take advantage of all that hardware horsepower. And last I read Microsoft was developing two next-gen consoles one for 1080p60 gaming (Scarlet) and one for 4K60 gaming with Ray Tracing support (Anaconda).
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Apr 16, 2019 23:09
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Arzachel posted:This is certainly a take That is correct. However, you do need to look at how they have that all split up. The original XBox Ones were 32MB of SRAM + 8 GB of DDR3. With only 5 GB of it actually made available to games, the rest was held in reserve for system functions. Not GDDR3. DDR3. The XBOX, on the other hand, ditches the ESRAM entirely, and goes with 12 GB of GDDR5, again, with 3 GB held in reserve for system functions, which brings that number down to 9 GB. But that wasn't even the original design, since they were originally targeting just the full 8 GB for games. In fact, it was only just a few days before they unveiled the XBOX that they announced that they were, quote, "tuning Scorpio to empower creators to share the best versions of their games. Unlocked extra GB of RAM for them, now 9GB of GDDR5". and that "Games that don’t use the full 9GB, the rest of the RAM will be used as a cache (making things load way faster, etc.). All games = better." The XBOX doesn't have any DRAM used as system memory, is what I'm highlighting, here. It's all GDDR5. Hyperbole from the Microsoft people aside, what I said projecting forward isn't incorrect. Hell, what I said is downright conservative: SwissArmyDruid posted:So in the end, I'm thinking 8+ GB of GDDR5(X) plus a little whatever extra they keep in reserve for running system processes + SRAM they want on the side or whatever, if they're still gonna keep building consoles with only GDDR instead of having GDDR and DDR like a normal x86 system. [url]https://[/url] twitter.com/XboxQwik/status/872834422675873792 [url]https://[/url] twitter.com/XboxQwik/status/872836396116987904 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_One#Hardware_comparison SwissArmyDruid fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Apr 16, 2019 |
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Apr 16, 2019 23:13
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spasticColon posted:So the PS5 is going to be like the PS3: powerful but also expensive (for a video game console) and AAA games will be more expensive to develop for it in order to take advantage of all that hardware horsepower. And last I read Microsoft was developing two next-gen consoles one for 1080p60 gaming (Scarlet) and one for 4K60 gaming with Ray Tracing support (Anaconda). At least instead of having a really weird architecture like the PS3 it's even closer to just being a gaming PC than ever.
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Apr 16, 2019 23:49
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PS4 was also comparable to a fairly high end gaming desktop when it came out in 2013.
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Apr 16, 2019 23:58
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pixaal posted:PS4 was also comparable to a fairly high end gaming desktop when it came out in 2013. What, no, not in the least. It was quite far behind them all over.
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Apr 17, 2019 00:09
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eames posted:everything in that article screams soldered PCIe 4.0 SSD with custom controller to me, perhaps paired with AMD's StoreMI tiered caching for external drives. well the PS4 allowed you to swap harddrives without much fuss. so sony has a good track record for such things. wargames fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Apr 17, 2019 |
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Apr 17, 2019 00:40
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— look what Apple has done to me. 
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pixaal posted:PS4 was also comparable to a fairly high end gaming desktop when it came out in 2013. Only in vram.
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Apr 17, 2019 00:42
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fishmech posted:What, no, not in the least. It was quite far behind them all over. Yeah let's be real here PS4\xbox were full on recession grade consoles and their respective party tricks (ES ram, GDDR) were implemented to mitigate it.
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Apr 17, 2019 01:19
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pixaal posted:PS4 was also comparable to a fairly high end gaming desktop when it came out in 2013. Nope - the cpu is sub-poo poo-tier netbook grade rubbish, it just happens to have a fair number of crappy cpu cores. The gpu sits between a 7850 and 7870. They just weren't high end in 2013 - they were always, at best, mid range. So a lovely cpu and mid-range gpu, with some unified gddr5 and low overhead from the os. That's all
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Apr 17, 2019 05:14
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The og ps3 was fairly nice hardware, though.
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Apr 17, 2019 06:04
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Broken Machine posted:The og ps3 was fairly nice hardware, though. Nah, it was really a bad bet on what would be the smart way to handle multiple cores. Microsoft got it right by going with symmetric core design.
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Apr 17, 2019 06:11
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fishmech posted:Nah, it was really a bad bet on what would be the smart way to handle multiple cores. Microsoft got it right by going with symmetric core design. What were the 6/7 stream processors of the Cell even supposed to be good for?
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Apr 17, 2019 06:24
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Mister Facetious posted:What were the 6/7 stream processors of the Cell even supposed to be good for? Making the Uncharted games look prettier? Running Folding@Home?
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Apr 17, 2019 06:31
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Mister Facetious posted:What were the 6/7 stream processors of the Cell even supposed to be good for? Supposedly this design would handle multimedia decode/encode and handling vector math very well, which would lead to better performance than the 360's 3 powerpc cores running with multiple threads per core. In reality it was very difficult to harness the PS3 in this way for games, although it was useful as an architecture for certain scientific data computations.
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Apr 17, 2019 06:33
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Broken Machine posted:The og ps3 was fairly nice hardware, though. It wasn't really all that well thought through - iirc Cell was intended to do all the processing, but when that wasn't feasible, they tacked on a (dated compared to the 360's) GPU. Having two 256MB RAM pools must also be a total pain compared to the 512 unified in the 360. I'm pretty sure that the GPU in the 360 was the first GPU available to consumers with unified shaders. HalloKitty fucked around with this message at 07:32 on Apr 17, 2019 |
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Apr 17, 2019 07:28
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HalloKitty posted:Nope - the cpu is sub-poo poo-tier netbook grade rubbish, it just happens to have a fair number of crappy cpu cores. The gpu sits between a 7850 and 7870. They just weren't high end in 2013 - they were always, at best, mid range. Not many Netbooks get 8 cores regardless of it being a low power CPU, and it still delivered, so what's the issue here? It worked. Yeah, it was easily beat by PCs of the era, but it also was fully capable of delivering on what Sony promised. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 14:45 on Apr 17, 2019 |
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Apr 17, 2019 14:33
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CommieGIR posted:Not many Netbooks get 8 cores regardless of it being a low power CPU, and it still delivered, so what's the issue here? It worked. The claim was that it compared favorably with high end PCs at the time. Nobody said Sony didn’t deliver on promises.
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Apr 17, 2019 15:04
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GutBomb posted:The claim was that it compared favorably with high end PCs at the time. Nobody said Sony didn’t deliver on promises. From a gaming perspective: It did. From a hardware perspective: Of course it didn't, because it was a recession era product aimed at low to mid tier market.
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Apr 17, 2019 15:06
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CommieGIR posted:Not many Netbooks get 8 cores regardless of it being a low power CPU, and it still delivered, so what's the issue here? It worked. I never said it didn't deliver, they've delivered some great experiences on it. No, Netbooks don't have 8-cores, but they still shared the same very basic and slow Jaguar core - gluing a bunch of those together isn't going to deliver strong performance, gaming often favouring strong single-thread grunt. That said, I think the PS4 is a fine console, and somewhat better than the OG Xbox One. I was simply responding to the statement that its specifications were comparable to those of a high-end PC of the time, which is clearly false Edit: just to clear this up and get some perspective on the CPU performance (GPU performance is fine, everyone has a feel for 7850-ish performance), look at this AnandTech article. Look for the Athlon 5150, that's 4 Jaguar cores @ 1.6GHz with a 25W TDP. A 7-core Jaguar @ 1.6GHz (one core is dedicated to things other than gaming on the PS4) looks like it would perform similarly to something like a good ol' Q6600, assuming perfect scaling, which is wildly unrealistic. Q1-2007 mainstream performance in a machine released in Q4-2013 is not impressive HalloKitty fucked around with this message at 15:51 on Apr 17, 2019 |
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Apr 17, 2019 15:18
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CommieGIR posted:From a gaming perspective: It did. From a hardware perspective: Of course it didn't, because it was a recession era product aimed at low to mid tier market. It most definitely did not. It could barely do 30 FPS in lots of games with detail settings turned down while their PC equivalents on high end PCs were well above 60 with details maxed. It was fine for a game console, but comparing it to a high end gaming PC in any metric is just wrong since it cost about a quarter what a high end gaming PC did.
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Apr 17, 2019 15:25
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but remember, its a "super computer" that they cant export cause North Korea wants to use those Cell processors for NUKES, and it will replace all PC hardware by the end of the year because its "1000x" more powerful than an Athlon 64, and by running SETI@home they will single handedly find aliens and tell them that the PlayStation rules ha ha ha console marketing rocks
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Apr 17, 2019 16:41
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Cygni posted:but remember, its a "super computer" that they cant export cause North Korea wants to use those Cell processors for NUKES, and it will replace all PC hardware by the end of the year because its "1000x" more powerful than an Athlon 64, and by running SETI@home they will single handedly find aliens and tell them that the PlayStation rules ha ha ha You jest, but the Air Force literally did build a computing cluster out of ps3s, because it was the most cost effective choice, due to the speed of calculating matrices.. https://phys.org/news/2010-12-air-playstation-3s-supercomputer.html
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Apr 17, 2019 17:14
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Broken Machine posted:You jest, but the Air Force literally did build a computing cluster out of ps3s, because it was the most cost effective choice, due to the speed of calculating matrices.. Till Sony patched the PS3, and the USAF got pissed.
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Apr 17, 2019 17:38
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CommieGIR posted:Till Sony patched the PS3, and the USAF got pissed. Did they even care at that point? The Cell was interesting for a short period, then Nvidia debuted CUDA and the scientific market lost interest almost immediately. IBM declared the Cell a dead end and bowed out long before Sony patched out linux support. Running Linux on the PS3 was always a pretty miserable experience since IO was extremely slow and it had a pathetic amount of memory available. I did get  from the class action lawsuit though.
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Apr 17, 2019 18:00
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Cygni posted:but remember, its a "super computer" that they cant export cause North Korea wants to use those Cell processors for NUKES, and it will replace all PC hardware by the end of the year because its "1000x" more powerful than an Athlon 64, and by running SETI@home they will single handedly find aliens and tell them that the PlayStation rules ha ha ha Saddam was going to use PS2s to launch missiles back before that. The PS2 was actually subject to export controls regulating encryption technologies because the memory card encryption it used was considered strong at the time.
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Apr 17, 2019 18:04
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Broken Machine posted:You jest, but the Air Force literally did build a computing cluster out of ps3s, because it was the most cost effective choice, due to the speed of calculating matrices.. Yeah it was just unfortunate how their usability for tasks like that didn't lead to useful performance for video games. The_Franz posted:Did they even care at that point? The Cell was interesting for a short period, then Nvidia debuted CUDA and the scientific market lost interest almost immediately. IBM declared the Cell a dead end and bowed out long before Sony patched out linux support. They cared because they already had clusters set up under the expectation that they'd be able to source replacement parts until they moved onto another setup. They'd also had custom hardware commissioned specifically to handle dispatching the various tasks across the PS3 cluster, which was obviously not too useful for adapting to another cluster setup.
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Apr 17, 2019 18:05
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The_Franz posted:Saddam was going to use PS2s to launch missiles back before that. The PS2 was actually subject to export controls regulating encryption technologies because the memory card encryption it used was considered strong at the time. It's pretty clear the whole "Saddam buying PS2s to launch missiles" story was complete fabrication by World Net Daily. The PS2 wasn't even good at that type of calculation. Also, by 2000 encryption export restrictions were all but gone, but there was an embargo on Iraq.
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Apr 17, 2019 18:12
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Broken Machine posted:You jest, but the Air Force literally did build a computing cluster out of ps3s, because it was the most cost effective choice, due to the speed of calculating matrices.. Also because the hardware was sold below cost. The_Franz posted:Did they even care at that point? The Cell was interesting for a short period, then Nvidia debuted CUDA and the scientific market lost interest almost immediately. IBM declared the Cell a dead end and bowed out long before Sony patched out linux support. They cared because they had sunk a few million into something that suddenly broke. Even if your can replace it with something better it's going to cost money. Super computers usually run until they physically break down.
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Apr 17, 2019 18:51
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fishmech posted:Nah, it was really a bad bet on what would be the smart way to handle multiple cores. Microsoft got it right by going with symmetric core design. It continued the fine hardware tradition of "well the software guys can just write code for this right?" and the fine software tradition of "well the compilers will get better, right" and then the fine compiler author tradition of laughing uproariously, some grad students suffering through creating some new compiler techniques that remain untouched / unread for about 5 years. e: Actually I could add in the extra steps of the silicon / architecture guys being "this will fit on the die, right" and "you can remove the heat from the chip, right?"
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Apr 17, 2019 19:38
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Xae posted:They cared because they had sunk a few million into something that suddenly broke. Even if your can replace it with something better it's going to cost money. I don't think the air force installed firmware updates on their PS3s, so they would have been able to continue using the feature.
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Apr 17, 2019 20:23
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Lambert posted:It's pretty clear the whole "Saddam buying PS2s to launch missiles" story was complete fabrication by World Net Daily. The PS2 wasn't even good at that type of calculation. Also, by 2000 encryption export restrictions were all but gone, but there was an embargo on Iraq. Are encryption export restrictions actually gone? At my last job we got an annual email that went something like "if you sell/give any products to anyone check with legal first because ITAR yo"
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Apr 17, 2019 20:25
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VostokProgram posted:Are encryption export restrictions actually gone? At my last job we got an annual email that went something like "if you sell/give any products to anyone check with legal first because ITAR yo" No they are not, if you work on sensitive cryptography you can't export to 6 countries/regions.
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Apr 17, 2019 20:33
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VostokProgram posted:Are encryption export restrictions actually gone? At my last job we got an annual email that went something like "if you sell/give any products to anyone check with legal first because ITAR yo" As long as your customer isn't in North Korea or Iran.
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Apr 17, 2019 20:34
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Lambert posted:I don't think the air force installed firmware updates on their PS3s, so they would have been able to continue using the feature. But not replace any PS3 if it broke down because new ones shipped with the firmware pre-installed, I guess.
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Apr 17, 2019 22:03
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Yeah that's what they'd been upset about. Sony gave very little warning to the public that they were going to stop allowing PS3s to use the Linux feature. Sony even ended up in several class action lawsuits over it for the following years, one of which resulted in payouts to most people who had bought PS3s before the cancellation of "other os" functionality and could prove they had done so. Essentially Sony had just dropped an announcement at the end of March 2010 that from the early April 2010 update onward, Linux installation would be blocked, and that consoles would start shipping with the Linux-blocking firmware pre-installed very shortly afterwards. Among other things, this happened while the Air Force was still building up their cluster of PS3s, and in the early planning stages of many other projects.
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Apr 17, 2019 22:11
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fishmech posted:Yeah that's what they'd been upset about. Sony gave very little warning to the public that they were going to stop allowing PS3s to use the Linux feature. Sony even ended up in several class action lawsuits over it for the following years, one of which resulted in payouts to most people who had bought PS3s before the cancellation of "other os" functionality and could prove they had done so. Did they say why?
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Apr 18, 2019 01:22
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sincx fucked around with this message at 05:50 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Apr 18, 2019 01:27
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sincx posted:I recall the real reason (regardless of what Sony said) was George Hotz of iPhone hacking infamy used a kernel module + a hardware glitch to dump the hypervisor (or at least part of it). Nothing terribly interesting was found and the glitch was really finicky so it wasn't of much use to anyone, but it pissed off Sony enough to get rid of the OtherOS functionality completely. A few months later those USB keys that allowed pirated games by exploiting the HID parser appeared and a little while later the fail0verflow hackers broke the whole thing open and found Sony's major crypto error.
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Apr 18, 2019 01:53
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VostokProgram posted:Did they say why? Sony claimed it posed "security concerns" in their announcement: https://blog.eu.playstation.com/2010/03/29/ps3-firmware-3-21-coming-april-1st/ Which means it was 90% "people might use this to steal games" and then 10% "people might use this to rip blu ray movies".
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Apr 18, 2019 01:54
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