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The .idea folder contains more than a few settings and I have some specifics with how I set up my IDE and do not want anybody's grubby settings near mine. Also: code should be written to be IDE independent fro reasons of build pipelines and platform independence.
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Apr 17, 2019 18:54
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Keetron posted:The .idea folder contains more than a few settings and I have some specifics with how I set up my IDE and do not want anybody's grubby settings near mine. The personal stuff (workspace.xml, user dictionaries, some other things) are always .gitignored anyway. https://intellij-support.jetbrains.com/hc/en-us/articles/206544839-How-to-manage-projects-under-Version-Control-Systems
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Apr 17, 2019 19:01
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sunaurus posted:The personal stuff (workspace.xml, user dictionaries, some other things) are always .gitignored anyway. https://intellij-support.jetbrains.com/hc/en-us/articles/206544839-How-to-manage-projects-under-Version-Control-Systems well, my second point remains 
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Apr 17, 2019 20:15
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sunaurus posted:I don't agree - if multiple people in the team (the majority?) want to use a jetbrains IDE, then it makes perfect sense to check in the .idea folder. How would this even cause merge conflicts if you don't have a different local copy of the files? That would be a conflict-free merge. You're right about the merge conflicts - I think it was just all the PRs that looked awful. I've never used Java so I was not familiar with how locked-in teams got with their IDEs so I was not prepared for the amount of pushback I got for not using their particular IDE (this was not a Java project but they were a Java shop).
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Apr 17, 2019 20:28
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Java programming is tightly coupled to an IDE. I don't get it, but people who love Java swear it's the greatest thing.
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Apr 17, 2019 20:46
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lifg posted:Java programming is tightly coupled to an IDE. I don't get it, but people who love Java swear it's the greatest thing. It's probably required to use a IDE but it's perfectly possible and easy to set up your project to work with all IDEs. Just use gradle or something similar for the whole build/dependency stuff.
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Apr 17, 2019 20:49
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lifg posted:Java programming is tightly coupled to an IDE. I don't get it, but people who love Java swear it's the greatest thing. Huh? that's not even remotely true.
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Apr 17, 2019 20:51
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I could be wrong, I'm not a Java dev. But all the Java devs I know rely on their IDEs for everything. I've never met one who programs in a large project with vi.
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Apr 17, 2019 21:03
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It's not that you can't work on Java without an IDE, it's just that IDEs work so well, it's stupid not to leverage them. For the past half a year, I've been working on a project without any Java, and I'm constantly being surprised at how bad IDE support can be in other languages. Just a few days ago, with Python, I was trying to refactor (rename) a method on a class named `get` (a completely brainless and foolproof operation with java code), and my editor found something like 2000 false positives for usages of this method. It was showing me all usages of any method named `get` on any class, not just the class I was refactoring. At that point, the 'rename' refactor is about as useful as a 'find and replace' (which of course is not very useful on a large codebase). I'm also constantly running into similar issues with Javascript, and even with Typescript! You would think that refactoring would be easier with static types, but somehow, Typescript refactorings are not there yet. But I can totally see why Python or JS devs for example don't get IDEs - the IDEs just aren't as good with those languages as they are with Java-based languages.
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Apr 17, 2019 21:04
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lifg posted:I could be wrong, I'm not a Java dev. But all the Java devs I know rely on their IDEs for everything. I've never met one who programs in a large project with vi. There are two concepts here that you seem to be confusing: 1. It is required to use an IDE to build, package, test and run a Java application 2. It is recommended to use an IDE to write the code for said application The first point can be true if you have a really junior development team. By junior i mean you now start developing java programs and put what you know (which is what you wrote and which is absolutely wrong) into practice. Everyone else uses a build system that is IDE-independent and has done so way before maven was a thing (2003). Point #2: You really should use an IDE to write code because it helps you immensely. Any IDE. You can, however, use vim if you're masochistic. you shouldn't, but you can.
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Apr 17, 2019 21:29
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sunaurus posted:It's not that you can't work on Java without an IDE, it's just that IDEs work so well, it's stupid not to leverage them. ... and what's the deal with Arguably, TS should have been better, but a bunch of the tooling is probably just the JS tooling with some extra features and doesn't really ~get~ type guarantees.
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Apr 17, 2019 21:30
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Munkeymon posted:... and what's the deal with
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Apr 17, 2019 22:02
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Volguus posted:There are two concepts here that you seem to be confusing: It's more then that. Java code slowly becomes optimized for the features of a good IDEs. For example, IDEs will make suggestions when you want to use a method, and dynamically searches the class methods as you type. Java classes often have tons of methods, but their programmers apparently don't mind, because their IDEs make it easy to find the method name they want. Programmers in languages without great IDE support tend to build classes with fewer methods, and are faster to refactor groups of methods into sub classes, because smaller files are quicker to look through.
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Apr 17, 2019 22:05
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lifg posted:It's more then that. Java code slowly becomes optimized for the features of a good IDEs. It's funny you say that, because I've also heard the exact opposite argument: "IDEs cause developers to create a bunch of small classes that are impossible to navigate without an IDE" People who like huge classes will create huge classes, people who like small classes will write small classes. I have not noticed any correlation between IDE usage and class size preference.
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Apr 17, 2019 22:10
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So if I have good IDEs and take advantage of them to make me more productive is bad vs having vim and writing code like it's 1699? Or what exactly is the problem here? The entire class to fit in one screen no matter what regardless of requirements, design or anything else? As I said, you're free to work however you want.
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Apr 17, 2019 22:12
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vonnegutt posted:If I know what IDE my coworkers are using, it's a problem. Check in versions of the files that mess with the colors and key bindings. I think blue text with papyrus font on a cyan background should be adopted by all users of that IDE whose files keep winding up in the repo.
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Apr 17, 2019 22:43
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lifg posted:I could be wrong, I'm not a Java dev. But all the Java devs I know rely on their IDEs for everything. I've never met one who programs in a large project with vi. It's not that Java requires IDEs, it's that large projects require IDEs, and Java is good at large projects. vonnegutt posted:If I know what IDE my coworkers are using, it's a problem. Nah, it's actually better to mandate everyone use the same IDE so you can optimize for its use, e.g. configuration of new modules, or plugins for your dev process.
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Apr 17, 2019 23:33
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Pie Colony posted:It's not that Java requires IDEs, it's that large projects require IDEs, and Java is good at large projects. Also standardize on plugins and configurations like checkstyles, formatting etc...
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Apr 17, 2019 23:54
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Why is an IDE necessary for that? Stick it all into a script and run it in CI
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Apr 17, 2019 23:56
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Developers generally don't want to sit and wait for 15 minutes so their PR can be failed for importing something in the wrong order
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Apr 18, 2019 00:10
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How about putting it in the pre commit hook? Professional programmers should take responsibility for their tools, it's actually easier that way
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Apr 18, 2019 00:12
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rt4 posted:How about putting it in the pre commit hook? Professional programmers should take responsibility for their tools, it's actually easier that way Having the IDE tell me about a convention I'm breaking is a lot more useful while I'm editing the file.
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Apr 18, 2019 00:22
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Janitor Prime posted:Having the IDE tell me about a convention I'm breaking is a lot more useful while I'm editing the file. That doesn’t conflict though. The important thing to the organization is that no code that breaches the agreed upon style is committed. If you feel it’s useful to have your IDE remind you, set up your IDE to do so (and probably if other people in your org use the same IDE they’ll have findings they can share) That said I don’t see the problem with having something cross platform like an editorconfig checked in
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Apr 18, 2019 00:27
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why does someone else adding a file, any file, cause you a merge conflict
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Apr 18, 2019 00:33
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JawnV6 posted:why does someone else adding a file, any file, cause you a merge conflict Can't tell what this is referencing, but if you have a project in Visual Studio, adding a file modifies the solution file, and I've in the past (past versions of VS) definitely had merge conflicts over multiple people adding a file.
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Apr 18, 2019 02:43
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:1. Only IM'ing "hi" and then not saying anything else until you hi back or whatever. When my boss does this I assume that it's "hi you're fired" when it's always more like "hi I approved your expense report."
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Apr 18, 2019 03:00
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:Check in versions of the files that mess with the colors and key bindings. I think blue text with papyrus font on a cyan background should be adopted by all users of that IDE whose files keep winding up in the repo. Slow down there, satan. We want get people to stop doing stupid things, not have them help you committing suicide by angry dev.
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Apr 18, 2019 12:47
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Vulture Culture posted:What we did get from TS are library annotations and inspections for IDEs, and that's still pretty good Oh yeah I'm not knocking what TS brings to the party, just wishing the tooling did more.
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Apr 18, 2019 14:23
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drat. I heard back from my current manager and they aren't even able to counter offer. Too big of a pay raise on their end. That definitely seals the deal then. Now I get the unfortunate task of breaking the news to my team. Macichne Leainig fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Apr 18, 2019 |
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Apr 18, 2019 23:15
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Protocol7 posted:drat. I heard back from my current manager and they aren't even able to counter offer. Too big of a pay raise on their end. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vewkfFu8Q7I
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Apr 19, 2019 01:42
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Keetron posted:Slow down there, satan. We want get people to stop doing stupid things, not have them help you committing suicide by angry dev. They can get mad all they want, but they won't be doing anything with those burning eyeballs they'll be dragging behind them on the floor.
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Apr 19, 2019 04:37
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Agree strongly with the viewpoint, “I don’t care what you write your code in as long as it doesn’t affect me in any way.”
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Apr 19, 2019 11:37
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Volguus posted:There are two concepts here that you seem to be confusing: It’s not about masochism, it’s about commonality of tooling and support for advanced features. All of the ‘vim mode’ plugins screw up at least one fundamental feature, leaving me to regularly need to open files in vim to get something done. Also, it’s not like vim doesn’t have exactly the same set of language tooling ides have. It can literally use a headless eclipse session for completion, refactoring, and other language tooling in java. For c#, it can use the same completion and refactoring engine as vs code. Etc etc. Using raw vi with no plugins is dumb, but basically no one does that. (Learning vim is also probably a bad use of time; separately.)
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Apr 20, 2019 13:14
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My issue with setting up vim with enough plugins to turn it into an IDE is pretty much the same as my issue with most "Need an important feature? Just use a plugin!" type software: 1) Plugins end up conflicting with each other 2) It can become really hard to keep track of all the configuration for all your plugins 3) There is no central documentation for how stuff works 4) Overall UX ends up being bad I often see these same problems with stuff like Jenkins and even VS code. I don't think plugins are bad, but something that's designed from the ground up to be an IDE (like intellij for example) will probably be much easier to actually use as an IDE than something that's designed to be a text-editor and then hacked into an IDE with plugins. This is just why I personally prefer an actual IDE, I still wouldn't tell anyone in my team to not use vim as an IDE if they like it.
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Apr 20, 2019 13:30
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sunaurus posted:I often see these same problems with [...] VS code. Are you saying that VS Code is just designed to be a text editor? Or that you shouldn’t use plugins for IDEs? I’m a bit lost.
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Apr 20, 2019 13:50
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Subjunctive posted:Are you saying that VS Code is just designed to be a text editor? Or that you shouldn’t use plugins for IDEs? I’m a bit lost. Neither? I'm just saying that in general, using some basic backbone-software and bolting on a ton of functionality with plugins will result in worse UX than using purpose-built tools.
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Apr 20, 2019 14:22
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leper khan posted:It’s not about masochism, it’s about commonality of tooling and support for advanced features. All of the ‘vim mode’ plugins screw up at least one fundamental feature, leaving me to regularly need to open files in vim to get something done. smackfu posted:Agree strongly with the viewpoint, “I don’t care what you write your code in as long as it doesn’t affect me in any way.” If you, however, come to the standup meeting saying that the 5 minute feature is not completed after 5 days because vim plugins are giving you a hard time, then we're gonna have some talking to do. I understand preferring a text editor/IDE over another. I do not understand getting purposefully gimped by said text editor and refusing to change.
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Apr 20, 2019 14:49
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Is this just some dumb straw man you made up? A 5 minute feature in raw vim is easily possible.
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Apr 20, 2019 19:07
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qsvui posted:Is this just some dumb straw man you made up? A 5 minute feature in raw vim is easily possible. quote:A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. quote:Hyperbole is the use of exaggeration as a rhetorical device or figure of speech
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Apr 20, 2019 19:35
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To be fair, I thought the 5 days were spend fiddling around with the plugins, instead of working on the feature. Knowing most vim users, this did sound like something overheared in a standup.
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Apr 20, 2019 20:42
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