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Yooper
Apr 30, 2012



Nice! Wish there was more details out there.

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gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
A modern sequel to Achtung Spitfire and Over the Reich would be swell

Stairmaster
Jun 8, 2012

Flight commander 3 when

Dark_Swordmaster
Oct 31, 2011
Fun reminder that this place is traditionally quick to act on :filez: talk.

Rule the Skies should just be a grog game akin to Rule the Waves set in a Crimson Skies-esque sky pirate universe.

Stairmaster
Jun 8, 2012

nobody likes a narc

Abongination
Aug 18, 2010

Life, it's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come.
Pillbug
I really don’t care about the drm and I’m gonna buy the poo poo out of the game.

Pirate Radar
Apr 18, 2008

You're not my Ruthie!
You're not my Debbie!
You're not my Sherry!
This is the kind of news developers must have to figure out exactly when to drop, so that you don’t kill people’s anticipation but still give them enough warning.

Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009
I mean honestly there isn't really a hoop wouldn't jump through to play this game but I still wish they wouldn't do this.

Stairmaster
Jun 8, 2012

same, i'm assembling a team of elite street racers to rob a semitruck carrying palletes of all the serial codes while its in transit

Tythas
Oct 3, 2013

Never felt at home in reality
Always hiding behind avatars


Warship NWS posted:

To all, forgive me being a bit direct with this thought and no offense intended to anyone.. note I am a near 40 year wargamer (all media), designer, various aid to other publishers/designers, and publisher plus other past experiences in this industry - stopping there.

One thing this has been missed by all posters on this thread.. individual piracy is NOT the only threat to PC wargames - and in many ways, not even the most severe threat. Piracy, AKA product theft, is not a one dimensional problem, never has been. Wargame publishers have taken some hefty losses due to other threats. In some instances pirates made more money off the products then the publishers themselves - and no I will NOT describe how they did it as I will NOT teach others how to do it, but it has been documented by various publishers quite a few times and tracked but NOT publicly published for a variety of reasons.

PC publishers should be allowed more protection then just the perpetual honor system. I have yet to see any idea more simple then we are asking for.. download the full version, install and start playing immediately for a generous amount of time as you send one email, get reply with a final code, done. If we need to update the registration (which should be pretty rare).. simple process again. If we decide to stop actively supporting the game we can cut the APS system. 2 PCs for your own personal use again should be no problem (we have ways to do this, just deciding on the best option). We are already planning a playable demo as well. What other *reasonable* requests are there outside of virtually no protection at all? Every other method we have researched could create more possible complications for the user or our operations.. so this was the simplest method we could find after researching basically every option available on the market for over several years. Again, we are not novices on this topic due to our backgrounds.

The total time it takes you to place an order is probably going to be less then it takes to set the codes up. I don't think anyone here (especially the time it takes to post one rebuttal post on this thread) can possibly have their life turned upside down by one email considering most of us write how many posts and emails a day? 1-2 minutes vs how many hours of game play? That is probably less time then anyone would take to read up on RTW2 before buying it and FAR less time to read the manual. I could see a big panic if this was like one of the worst "DRMs" ever made - heck we hate those as well with a passion and would NEVER consider using them.

As I have said before.. got a better idea then say it, otherwise rebuttals are basically saying we have no right to protect our product whatsoever and that piracy is utterly condoned - which sadly in many ways already is by our industry by the utter lack of any real enforcement or reasonable push for such by the gaming community. Even though PC wargames are not considered as valuable as physical product it often takes MANY more hours of labor to produce PC wargames, and typically A LOT more programming experience, and yet there is far less active anti-piracy for such product by the community or the industry. I would love to see community take action against piracy as strongly as happens with ANY, even non-intrusive, level of protection. Also, niche wargame publishers cannot be lumped sum in with some mainstream games that can sell millions of copies in a short time, even with massive piracy.. makes no sense.

The small wargaming publishers that are working for an honest living for niche PC wargaming funds that are below what some would not even consider minimum wage, and at FAR below what they could make elsewhere, are the ones getting rebuttal punished just for asking for even minimal protection by anyone that hates ANY protection at all and yet do or say virtually nothing against the pirates ripping those same publishers off. Not sure how that makes any sense at all IMHO. Might be a good reason why many wargame designers won't bother with this industry and make better money elsewhere. Just because some say "tough s**t" does not produce any constructive dialog either - that is just basically saying the pirates won and they have no problem with that. We can all either support this industry and work in a positive and constructive direction or constantly condone through silence or lack of action those that those that rip it off and punish publishers that cannot afford such losses. There are no other options.

Those are my few cents and I am sure I will see a flood of rebuttal opinions in return, but as usual, very little to nothing against piracy - the ultimate source of the problem - itself. Stopping there..

Thanks
yikes

Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009
lol, so what does he want us to do, go onto 4chan and post about how evil pirates are?

Phi230
Feb 2, 2016

by Fluffdaddy
In before RtW 3 gets that uncrackable dongle thing that Steel Beasts uses

Stairmaster
Jun 8, 2012

loving boomers

Count Thrashula
Jun 1, 2003

Death is nothing compared to vindication.
Buglord
Why hasn't there been a good hex based game since Barbarossa

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

Phi230 posted:

In before RtW 3 gets that uncrackable dongle thing that Steel Beasts uses

The saddest thing is that 'NWS posts you a dongle' has already been posted as a joke.

AceRimmer
Mar 18, 2009
I'm incredibly mad I ever gave these idiots a single cent

jzilla
Apr 13, 2007

I will NOT be purchasing RTW2 until the crack comes out. Have to make sure I can play this poo poo on my own terms. The original was hard enough to install, not trusting they've somehow improved in this area.

Wooper
Oct 16, 2006

Champion draGoon horse slayer. Making Lancers weep for their horsies since 2011. Viva Dickbutt.
I've emailed the devs my documents hoping they give me the green light on my endeavor to install the latest patch.

Mr Luxury Yacht
Apr 16, 2012


How are these people so goddamn bad at this.

Matrix/Slitherine sells loving AGEOD games on Steam and makes money. Children of a Dead Earth, a game so groggy it practically requires a double degree in materials science and nuclear engineering makes money on Steam.

gently caress, RTW2 is probably the one thing that would make me use the Epic Games Store if they're so worried about losing too big a cut.

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

Oh man I got mad.

e: loving lecturing people on their security know how and credentials when they haven't even bothered to secure their community forum in TYOOL 2019

Alchenar fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Apr 21, 2019

Dark_Swordmaster
Oct 31, 2011
Wait, why are people mad? What's the DRM they're using, that one that used to tear up your CD drive?

Tythas
Oct 3, 2013

Never felt at home in reality
Always hiding behind avatars


Dark_Swordmaster posted:

Wait, why are people mad? What's the DRM they're using, that one that used to tear up your CD drive?

The DRM they are using has 2 codes one to verify you purchased the game, and the other to actually unlock the game. anytime you change hardware your codes stop working so you have to email them your verification of purchase code and ask for a new one

Wooper
Oct 16, 2006

Champion draGoon horse slayer. Making Lancers weep for their horsies since 2011. Viva Dickbutt.
Details are sketchy but it's some home brew poo poo where you email them a hardware code and they email you back a code. Seems uniquely lovely but we don't know for sure.

edit: loving having to dig through my emails for my loving code every single patch was such a big hassle having more hoops to jump through makes me not want to buy the game

Wooper fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Apr 22, 2019

Mr Luxury Yacht
Apr 16, 2012


Dark_Swordmaster posted:

Wait, why are people mad? What's the DRM they're using, that one that used to tear up your CD drive?

You're limited to one, maybe two installs. Your game isn't activated with your serial keys but with a unique activation code or something generated from that serial. After two installs you have to email Gord the Keymaster to get him to personally reauthorize your copy.

At least that's what I think is happening. It's like something niche music software from the early 2000s would do.

Dark_Swordmaster
Oct 31, 2011
That is hilarious.

Asehujiko
Apr 6, 2011

Mr Luxury Yacht posted:

You're limited to one, maybe two installs. Your game isn't activated with your serial keys but with a unique activation code or something generated from that serial. After two installs you have to email Gord the Keymaster to get him to personally reauthorize your copy.

At least that's what I think is happening. It's like something niche music software from the early 2000s would do.
Do note that the second install is a PLANNED feature currently held up by technical hurdles.

Class Warcraft
Apr 27, 2006


My favorite DRM scheme was the one that came with Battle Chess circa 199X. It had a notepad full of codes and when you booted it up it would tell you to turn to a certain page and type in the relevant code. If you lost the notepad, as I did, you were poo poo outta luck and could never play again.

Class Warcraft fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Apr 22, 2019

817
Jan 2, 2014
While the DRM isn't something that will stop me from buying the game, it is a bit funny how WITE & WITW just happened to get DRM-free releases on GOG the other week. What the hell does Slitherine know about selling games anyway.

Yooper
Apr 30, 2012


What are people like Matrix or Paradox doing in this same situation? I assume my copy of AGEOD's Thirty Year War has some sort of protection? God forbid anyone would want to pirate it.

Also the irony of a game about naval warfare dealing with pirates does make me chuckle. They should just make it so if you are detected pirating it then every boat you design is a galleon with carronades and cannons.

Wooper
Oct 16, 2006

Champion draGoon horse slayer. Making Lancers weep for their horsies since 2011. Viva Dickbutt.
Paradox only has steam as DRM afaik.

Mr Luxury Yacht
Apr 16, 2012


Yooper posted:

What are people like Matrix or Paradox doing in this same situation? I assume my copy of AGEOD's Thirty Year War has some sort of protection? God forbid anyone would want to pirate it.

Also the irony of a game about naval warfare dealing with pirates does make me chuckle. They should just make it so if you are detected pirating it then every boat you design is a galleon with carronades and cannons.

Matrix/Paradox you either buy it on Steam and it's like any other game, or the few Matrix games I've bought from their store, you just enter the serial one time at install to unlock the game and that's it. I think it might do a one-time phone home to validate but yeah, I don't think there's any install limit. They're surprisingly sensible.

Asehujiko
Apr 6, 2011
I like the claim that google uses manual email verification too that, when pressed on what product that would be for, is followed up by "that is confidential".

V for Vegas
Sep 1, 2004

THUNDERDOME LOSER

Mr Luxury Yacht posted:

or the few Matrix games I've bought from their store, you just enter the serial one time at install to unlock the game and that's it. I think it might do a one-time phone home to validate but yeah, I don't think there's any install limit. They're surprisingly sensible.

This seems to be an obvious and simply DRM to implement that doesn't require you emailing someone - have they said why they can't do this?

Pirate Radar
Apr 18, 2008

You're not my Ruthie!
You're not my Debbie!
You're not my Sherry!

V for Vegas posted:

This seems to be an obvious and simply DRM to implement that doesn't require you emailing someone - have they said why they can't do this?

Their position is “we are the experts here and we did a lot of work before choosing this system, we think it’s the best way, please do not argue”

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

They refuse to use a third party system and they refuse to use an automated system.

So on those criteria, exchanging one-time unique codes is the most effective DRM but only because that criteria rejects everything else a-priori.

Pirate Radar
Apr 18, 2008

You're not my Ruthie!
You're not my Debbie!
You're not my Sherry!
I think their objection to Steam/Epic is based on objecting to involving a third party in their business on principle rather than actually based on the practical parts of those platforms.

Asehujiko
Apr 6, 2011

V for Vegas posted:

This seems to be an obvious and simply DRM to implement that doesn't require you emailing someone - have they said why they can't do this?
Because they gotta stick it to the pirates by creating infinitesimally more work for cracking groups and none for pirates!

Also trust us, this DRM system is totally in use by companies like Google! No, I can't tell you what product they use it for because that is confidential. In the same vein, my uncle works at Nintendo and my girlfriend lives in a different town and just happens to be busy whenever you're here.

Phi230
Feb 2, 2016

by Fluffdaddy
I AM buying RULE THE WAVES 2 in 5 days because I HAVE NO dignity and don't really care tbh

Sucks though, because I wanted to give free copies to all my friends like I did with RtW 1

Squiggle
Sep 29, 2002

I don't think she likes the special sauce, Rick.


Pirate Radar posted:

I think their objection to Steam/Epic is based on objecting to involving a third party in their business on principle rather than actually based on the practical parts of those platforms.

Idiotic and flawed principled stands is basically what this stupid loving genre is built on.

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Tythas
Oct 3, 2013

Never felt at home in reality
Always hiding behind avatars


I am going to buy it in 4 days and wait for a :filez: version with no drm to download it

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