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Looking like a dude in a suit there.
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Apr 21, 2019 04:36
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Gengar's design is growing on me, gotta admit
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Apr 21, 2019 05:26
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those gengar look much betterto me than the other one, i think because the mouth's closed.Radical 90s Wizard posted:I refuse to accept this frog trash, I'm pretty sure in the cartoon it was always a massive lumbering plant dino the cartoon is garbage created by a dude who had like legit hosed up ideas about how the world would work
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Apr 21, 2019 13:38
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Elfgames posted:those gengar look much betterto me than the other one, i think because the mouth's closed. Can you elaborate a little on this?
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Apr 21, 2019 19:27
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TheKingofSprings posted:Can you elaborate a little on this? It's complicated. Takeshi Shudō, the head writer for the early seasons of the anime, apparently had some...weird (and somewhat dystopian) ideas about the Pokemon setting, many of which are clear from the "Pocket Monsters: The Animation" light novel he wrote. Apparently in Shudo's conception of the Pokemon world, deadbeat dads like Flint are common due to men neglecting their families and mundane careers to have Pokemon adventures even though most of them aren't even successful as trainers (and Ash's dad is an example of this), 10-year-olds are considered adults, real-world animals used to exist but Pokemon drove them to extinction, and Gym Leaders must resign after 3 losses. Bits of Shudo's ideas snuck into the early episodes of the anime ("It took your father four days to get to Viridian City," everything involving Flint, the lack of male doctors and cops), although the anime has since moved away from them.
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Apr 21, 2019 21:21
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God drat it must really suck to be a regular animal in the pokemon world. Cant image how you'd get by as like a deer or even a mountain cougar when theres a high chance of a fire newt knowing Fire Blast to roast your balls alive, good lord that must have been a blood bath
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Apr 21, 2019 22:33
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so between all the animals being dead and the slowpoke tail subplot in g/s/c that means people are deffo eating pokemon
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Apr 21, 2019 23:23
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Honestly I really don't hate Shudo's conception of the Pokemon world. It basically just acknowledges the social problems you can extrapolate from the whole idea, and lets them be problems instead of just hoping you won't think about it for long enough, which means a whole loving lot of good (if kinda dark) material for stories.
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Apr 21, 2019 23:28
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yeah in broad strokes like that it just kinda sounds like a pretty bog standard salaryman culture critique
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Apr 21, 2019 23:47
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:Honestly I really don't hate Shudo's conception of the Pokemon world. It basically just acknowledges the social problems you can extrapolate from the whole idea, and lets them be problems instead of just hoping you won't think about it for long enough, which means a whole loving lot of good (if kinda dark) material for stories. Admitting social problems exist in the Pokemon world is fine (and some of the games actually do that, although the anime does tend to downplay those elements). But Shudo would have taken it too far if he'd had his way. Also, while Pokemon driving normal animals to extinction makes sense, his plan for revealing this was to have the third movie be about a fossil coming to life. This idea was rejected by the other people involved because they thought (rightly, I think) that a pile of rocks and bones would be a lame antagonist...so he came up with a new plot for the third movie, where the antagonist is a five-year-old girl.  (To be fair, the new plot actually worked out pretty well, aside from an infamous plot hole a different writer added that was fixed in the dub.)
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Apr 22, 2019 00:54
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Silver2195 posted:(To be fair, the new plot actually worked out pretty well, aside from an infamous plot hole a different writer added that was fixed in the dub.) What plot hole was this?
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Apr 22, 2019 00:57
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RatHat posted:What plot hole was this? Bulbapedia posted:The identity of the woman who returned home with Spencer Hale was not revealed in the movie itself, but was confirmed in the screenplay to be Molly's mother. This also acted as one of the reasons why Takeshi Shudō retired from making Pokémon movies after this movie as well as the start of his retirement from any Pokémon anime-related media, as he, upon learning who she was by getting a copy of the screenplay, mentioned that Sonoda had fundamentally misunderstood the point behind his screenplay, stating that had his own mother been alive and he been in Molly's shoes, he would have never abducted another person's mother. The "he would have never abducted another person's mother" wording cracks me up, but I definitely see what Shudo was getting at there; having Molly's mother be alive but hospitalized makes Molly less sympathetic, and her motivations weaker, for no real narrative purpose. Silver2195 fucked around with this message at 01:31 on Apr 22, 2019 |
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Apr 22, 2019 01:01
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Silver2195 posted:It's complicated. Takeshi Shudō, the head writer for the early seasons of the anime, apparently had some...weird (and somewhat dystopian) ideas about the Pokemon setting, many of which are clear from the "Pocket Monsters: The Animation" light novel he wrote. Apparently in Shudo's conception of the Pokemon world, deadbeat dads like Flint are common due to men neglecting their families and mundane careers to have Pokemon adventures even though most of them aren't even successful as trainers (and Ash's dad is an example of this), 10-year-olds are considered adults, real-world animals used to exist but Pokemon drove them to extinction, and Gym Leaders must resign after 3 losses. Bits of Shudo's ideas snuck into the early episodes of the anime ("It took your father four days to get to Viridian City," everything involving Flint, the lack of male doctors and cops), although the anime has since moved away from them. lmao actually that all owns
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Apr 22, 2019 01:44
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Silver2195 posted:Admitting social problems exist in the Pokemon world is fine (and some of the games actually do that, although the anime does tend to downplay those elements). But Shudo would have taken it too far if he'd had his way. I mean, in this case, "too far" is "far enough that there's actually something there to work with." There's genuine pathos to be mined out of the way Pokemon training just utterly wrecks people's families in his conception. The whole thing with Pokemon driving real animals to extinction could be used as a pretty poignant commentary on how we're turbofucking nature. People becoming adults at the age of ten is a good way to comment on how we've started to ask more and more of children while giving them less and less support. For less outright-dark stuff, the Gym Leader thing is a good way to tackle the theme that, even if your goal is to be on top of the world and you achieve that, you won't be able to keep that forever and you need to have stuff going on in your life beyond your One Thing or it'll wreck you. And the best part is? All these themes are simple and obvious enough that a kid would totally get it, and possibly even be able to relate.
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Apr 22, 2019 02:10
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The first season of the anime does play a lot with how a lot of starter Pokemon get abandoned, including implicitly the other two trainers that started the same day as Ash and Gay, with all of Ash's starter trio having been examples of such. But if you really want to see those themes, Pokemon Sun/Moon incorporated them better into the narrative; there's a street gang made up of disaffected youth and teenage runaways who feel abandoned by society because they failed to accomplish arbitrary tests of adulthood, with their leader being jealous and bitter because he failed to qualify for the equivalent of Gym Leader status (which is a specifically temporary position that you quickly age out of the running for) as the implied capstone to a childhood of being abused because he was never able to quite live up to the standards set for him no matter how hard he tried. Meanwhile the wealthy and powerful are excluded from all this and can do whatever they want, including inflicting their own forms of abuse on others and treating Pokemon as fun toys to play with and put on display when they're done. And it all comes together with the runaways squatting in an abandoned walled community full of mansions that no one really talks about, making their own equivalent of social services because the power's been cut off, and an overall theme of taking care of each other and screw everyone else because no one would take care of them.
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Apr 22, 2019 02:27
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It's implied that the main character of the movie wanted to be a trainer and burned out, so that aspect is at least touched on. Realistically it's one of those "How do you make money out of this" jobs, where you have to be really good to do it as an adult.
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Apr 22, 2019 03:17
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Pretty much, yeah. Even in-game, many of your opponents are either fellow kids and teenagers or ordinary people who do Pokemon training on the side. Office workers, archaeologists, athletes, tourists... makes things like the Battle Tower equivalents interesting when you have no idea who you might be battling next, Actually gets pretty interesting, past the first couple of games you see a lot more Gym Leaders who clearly have secondary jobs and sometimes dual-purpose gyms, which is something the anime did first to give Gym Leaders more flavour. (like Misty and her sisters running a swimming pool and putting on aquatic stage shows) Chefs, teachers, gardeners, athletes... and even in Gen 1, Saffron City's two gyms (though one was no longer official) are implied to also be dojos for human martial artists and psychics respectively to train alongside Pokemon. But the idea of a young person whose life aspirations have come crashing down leaving them burnt out and disillusioned and about to leave town to try to do something else with their life makes for an extremely fitting protagonist in this day and age. Seems there might be an arc of how he finds working with Detective Pikachu more interesting than training, since he's relatively independent and actually able to hold a conversation rather than needing to be cared for and told what to do.
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Apr 22, 2019 04:02
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:I mean, in this case, "too far" is "far enough that there's actually something there to work with." There's genuine pathos to be mined out of the way Pokemon training just utterly wrecks people's families in his conception. The whole thing with Pokemon driving real animals to extinction could be used as a pretty poignant commentary on how we're turbofucking nature. People becoming adults at the age of ten is a good way to comment on how we've started to ask more and more of children while giving them less and less support. For less outright-dark stuff, the Gym Leader thing is a good way to tackle the theme that, even if your goal is to be on top of the world and you achieve that, you won't be able to keep that forever and you need to have stuff going on in your life beyond your One Thing or it'll wreck you. Yeah, but like, all those themes are also kind of grim, and I don't think I've ever seen any show/movie/book take "hey there's some dark stuff behind this children's property if you think about it" and make it work without being... really really bad*? Like, best case scenario, you get that True Detective parody video posted on the last page, worst case you get that True Detective parody video played totally straight with terrible production values by some dorks with really bad equipment. Or The Happytime Murders, whatever. At the very least I don't see how you could make the concept of Pokemon driving real animals to extinction work as a commentary on anything like man ruining nature. Unless you want to claim that Pokemon are like, the product of toxic waste warping animals and are therefore a man-made mistake/affront to God, in which case I got a cool website called fanfiction.net that you should check out. Real animals should be just one of those things you don't think about in settings like Pokemon. Either they're out there and we just never see them, or they never existed and everyone's been eating Pokemon since forever, and either way it's better to not dwell on it. *the difference between that and this very movie we're posting about is that while Detective Pikachu seems to have some things implying that maybe Pokemon battling is bad (what with the cagefighting) or that people could misuse Pokemon (with those Greninja attacking our protagonists) to hurt others, no trailers so far have had characters go off on a tangent of how Pokemon haven't made mankind extinct but totally should've since we're so much weaker than them, or had someone turn to camera and wink about how crrrazy and messed up it is to just send children out into the world to be the very best like no one ever was. TwoPair fucked around with this message at 04:25 on Apr 22, 2019 |
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Apr 22, 2019 04:15
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I mean, given this was the original conception of the franchise, it's less "these things are here if you think about it too hard" and more "these things are here, period, as kinda-hosed-up consequences of the fun parts." If that doesn't sound like too big of a difference, the difference is focus: with those kinds of fan theories, the darkness is usually the explicit point, and they focus too hard on it at the expense of what people actually like. And aren't a pretty wide cross-section of Pokemon genetically engineered, or was that just Mewtwo? e: Basically it's the difference between that Ed Edd n' Eddy fan theory where they're all dead, and the finale for that show that had Eddy's brother come back and showed him as being an abusive rear end in a top hat who's responsible for 99% of Eddy's personality flaws. The former: bad, not what I like. The latter: good, more or less the kind of thing I'm talking about. The former is introducing darkness for the sake of ~RUINING YOUR CHILDHOOD~; the latter is taking darkness that was already kinda there in the background, and giving it depth and resonance and a point. WeedlordGoku69 fucked around with this message at 04:25 on Apr 22, 2019 |
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Apr 22, 2019 04:20
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:And aren't a pretty wide cross-section of Pokemon genetically engineered, or was that just Mewtwo? Mewtwo is the only one that was specifically genetically engineered that I can remember, but plenty of others are the result of human action to some degree. There's a bunch that went extinct long ago but were cloned from fossils to bring them back, Genesect was also revived from a fossil but was cyborgized in the process, Grimer and Muk are actually human-created pollution that came alive through a freak accident IIRC, a bunch of the Alolan Forms are the result of invasive species being introduced to new environments by irresponsible people, and the Porygon line are purely artificial (made of computer code...somehow). Plus there's Ultra Beasts, which are invasive species on a cosmic scale, due to Lusamine opening Ultra Wormholes. Silver2195 fucked around with this message at 04:33 on Apr 22, 2019 |
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Apr 22, 2019 04:31
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:I mean, given this was the original conception of the franchise, it's less "these things are here if you think about it too hard" and more "these things are here, period, as kinda-hosed-up consequences of the fun parts." If that doesn't sound like too big of a difference, the difference is focus: with those kinds of fan theories, the darkness is usually the explicit point, and they focus too hard on it at the expense of what people actually like. There are several man-made or modified Pokemon at this point. Even if we discount all the fossils you have Porygon, Castform, Type: Null, Magearna and Mewtwo as created Pokemon with others like Kyurem and Genesect who were genetically modified by humans. Plus there are all the ones that evolved or adapted into new forms because of humans like Voltorb, Grimer, Amungoos, Golett, Unown, Banette, Mimikyu, Rotom, Sigilyph etc.
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Apr 22, 2019 04:31
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That said, the very existence of fossil Pokemon should indicate that Pokemon aren't exactly a new alien invasion or whatever that's taken over the world, and they've been a thing since gen 1. Hell, the very first fossil Pokemon were aquatic life from the Cambrian era or earlier that long predate actual dinosaurs, let alone primates. (if anything, looking at the overall context it's humans that are the weird ones) It's also implied that there's alien Pokemon, almost certainly Elgeyem and Deoxys, possibly Clefairy and maaaybe Staryu. And not even getting into the Ultra Beasts. But yeah, the setting generally just treats them as facts of life and establishes that society is built incorporating Pokemon into everyday life, with infrastructure including free healthcare for Pokemon (and in the anime, free accomodation for their trainers), and in some ways they actually allow for a safer and happier society where you can let your kids go out to play on their own because they have a superpowered pet looking out for them. Kind of the whole point of the trailers thus far has been to establish the setting where freaky superpowered animals are completely normal and incorporated into city life.
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Apr 22, 2019 04:38
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There's Pokemon that are actual aliens that just kind of showed up 30 years ago that was basically Roswell. Voltorb and Electrode also didn't exist until Pokeballs.
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Apr 22, 2019 04:40
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmnkAOO6Qo4 Probably the last trailer with any reveals
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Apr 22, 2019 16:41
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I wonder if the nostalgic retro music campaign was planned from the start, or a reaction to the positive response to Happy Together in the first trailer.
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Apr 22, 2019 17:36
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https://twitter.com/joemerrick/status/1120353482240864256?s=21 https://twitter.com/joemerrick/status/1120364561079701506?s=21 https://twitter.com/joemerrick/status/1120364347203772416?s=21
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Apr 22, 2019 17:40
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That trailer was very sweet. I think that moment of walking through nature with a battered Pikachu is gonna be like every dog movie where the dog just got hit by a car or something, but times a million.
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Apr 22, 2019 18:17
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I can’t believe that this movie is real and it’s going to be great!
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Apr 22, 2019 22:35
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MikeJF posted:I wonder if the nostalgic retro music campaign was planned from the start, or a reaction to the positive response to Happy Together in the first trailer. Could go either way. Detective Pikachu is clearly banking on nostalgia as much as kid appeal. Though a bit funny given Happy Together was also used for Pikachu's first live-action appearance (on a screen, anyway) in the Super Smash Bros trailer way back in the day.
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Apr 22, 2019 22:48
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bobjr posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmnkAOO6Qo4 I'm going to go watch this stupid video game movie for children and I'm going to love it.
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Apr 22, 2019 23:04
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bobjr posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmnkAOO6Qo4 It's cute, sweet, and not undercut by a joke. Amazing.
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Apr 23, 2019 00:02
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It's honest to goodness sincerity.
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Apr 23, 2019 00:03
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wyoming posted:It's cute, sweet, and not undercut by a joke. That might seriously be my favorite trailer of all time
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Apr 23, 2019 00:22
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Could go either way. Detective Pikachu is clearly banking on nostalgia as much as kid appeal. Though a bit funny given Happy Together was also used for Pikachu's first live-action appearance (on a screen, anyway) in the Super Smash Bros trailer way back in the day. The first trailer having a morose piano version of the main theme was nail on head perfect Then the second trailer had the opening bars of the fantastic first anime theme and a million nail heads were struck with a single hammer blow
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Apr 23, 2019 01:24
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So are we actually going to have a protagonist’s father show up in this or will he be ded? Pikachu seems like a nice foster parent.
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Apr 24, 2019 13:23
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If they're sticking to the game's story (and it seems like they're certainly adapting a lot of elements from it) then we don't get an answer, presumably to be a sequel hook, and everybody online just theorizes that Detective Pikachu is Tim's dad somehow put into a Pikachu body by Mewtwo or mad science.
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Apr 24, 2019 14:12
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i have a very important question: Who is Chris O'Geere playing in this movie? I haven't seen him once in the trailers and in a little profile the NYT did on the day of the You're The Worst finale, he mentioned that his role is a secret. I wanna know! Is he the main character's dad? Is he Mewtwo? Is he some other talking Pokemon (that glowing Flareon looked awful suspicious). Is he just some random little part? It bugs me that I don't know.
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Apr 24, 2019 14:16
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He plays Roger Clifford. In the game he's the director of a news network and has a fairly large role in events.
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Apr 24, 2019 14:49
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If this gets a sequel, or they make it a shared universe thing, I hope major celebrities start to voice more Pokemon. But not the English speaking Pokemon like Mewtwo, Meowth, and Detective Pikachu. Just the ones that speak their own name. Get George Clooney to voice an Arcanine. Idris Elba to voice Nidoking. Helen Miren to voice Tyranitar.
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Apr 24, 2019 16:01
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Helen Mirren should be the champion of a region
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Apr 24, 2019 17:23
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