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Cassa posted:Also has the speed force ever been described as functioning this way, by anyone? edit: BrianWilly posted:As an addendum to the above note about King's characters not actually rising above the darkness and just pretty much succumbing to it all the time: one thing that sticks out about his modus operandi is that he'll frequently depower or just flat-out change a character in order so that they will end up defeated or otherwise unable to deal with the problems they encounter. In King's universe, heroes do lose, but they seem to lose because King himself is bending power levels and characterization to whatever degree, sometimes past the breaking point, so that they will lose. BrianWilly posted:if you have to intentionally lessen these superheroes in order to tell the "valuable" story of them losing and being sad about it, you're not actually telling me anything valuable about these characters...instead, all I've learned is that you'll write them out of character in order to serve your tragic tale. What little value we might have had with a story examining the question of "What if this character had to deal with this serious issue?" is tossed straight down the chute because you're not actually writing the character.
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Apr 24, 2019 11:43
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I actually enjoyed HiC #7 because it seemed like there was some deeper mystery building. But instead it's just Wally hosed up then intentionally hid the fact from everybody then killed himself I don't even know what the message of the book is supposed to be. I remember the book being advertised as "Superheroes go to therapy" which sounded like a really good idea that could possible de-stigmatize mental health issues for some people, but then it morphed into a murder mystery and now a story about one of the most beloved DC heroes committing suicide because he messed up and felt lonely, with no message beyond that
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Apr 24, 2019 12:50
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I'm waiting for the point to fully present it's self. Maybe the master can pull it all together with one final brushstroke  Reminder: Get on that new Dial H series, the first ish was wonderful and #2 is out today.
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Apr 24, 2019 13:32
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Teenage Fansub posted:I'm waiting for the point to fully present it's self. Maybe the master can pull it all together with one final brushstroke Meltzer is going to let you down.
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Apr 24, 2019 13:42
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Now that DC Universe is caught up through a year ago, any recommended reads for say, the past 10 years? I dug Snyder/Capullo’s Batman, and the Batgirl of Burnside run. Thanks!
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Apr 24, 2019 14:09
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Wally being driven to lose control, essentially as a result of reading Heroes in Crisis is exactly my kind of metafictional idiocy, and I would like to thank Tom King for making a heavily publicized comic book event meant to entertain me and exclusively me.
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Apr 24, 2019 14:34
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Is there any actual evidence that Tom King committed war-crimes (I mean aside from the general project of being part of the US military apparatus) because that seems like a pretty hefty thing to lob at somebody for writing a lovely comic. Edit: And to be clear it is a deeply lovely comic. If Wally could just run back in time and kill himself and move his body hither and yon why didn't he just go back in time a little further and not go on a killing spree? How Wonderful! fucked around with this message at 14:51 on Apr 24, 2019 |
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Apr 24, 2019 14:47
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blast0rama posted:Now that DC Universe is caught up through a year ago, any recommended reads for say, the past 10 years? Personal New52 hits: Animal Man + Swamp Thing (both Snyder and Soule's run), Grayson, Midnighter, Dial H, Demon Knights, Grant Morrison and Greg Pak Action Comics, Pak's 'Batman/Superman', Azzarello Wonder Woman, Peter Tomasi 'Batman and Robin' and Morrison's 'Batman Inc' together in publication order, Soule's Red Lantern (skip Peter Milligan's issues), JH Williams' Batwoman (with Greg Rucka's Detective Comics starring Batwoman before that), Justice League United, Earth 2 (until it starts to suck), Gotham Academy. Omega Men, Prez, Martian Manhunter, Genevieve Valentine Catwoman, James Tynion's Hellblazer, Max Landis' Superman: American Alien (which is out of continuity), The Multiversity. Rebirth: Peter Tomasi Superman and Super-Sons, Greg Rucka Wonder Woman, James Tynion Detective Comics, Ben Percy's Green Arrow, New Super-Man, Deathstroke, all of the 'Young Animal' stuff, especially Shade, Future Quest, The Flintstones. The Wild Storm, if that has any issues up. I’m the dope who’s really liking Doomsday Clock. Give it a try if it’s there. edit: Follow Snyder's Batman into Metal. I thought it was a mess, but it's led to his Justice League, which is pretty neat right now. And read his Detective Comics run prior to N52 Batman, if you haven't. Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 15:40 on Apr 24, 2019 |
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Apr 24, 2019 14:51
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Cassa posted:There sure is a lot going on in HiC that probably speaks to Kings own issues with therapeutic treatment. To quote Wally, "I'm the luckiest man alive. Every day is a gift." If losing control of the speed force killed others every flash supporting character would be dead right now.
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Apr 24, 2019 14:57
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Archyduchess posted:Is there any actual evidence that Tom King committed war-crimes (I mean aside from the general project of being part of the US military apparatus) because that seems like a pretty hefty thing to lob at somebody for writing a lovely comic. King worked for the cia training, I think he has said, counter insurgents in either Iraq or Afghanistan. He has 100% helped commit a war crime.
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Apr 24, 2019 15:23
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Two Tone Shoes posted:To quote Wally, "I'm the luckiest man alive. Every day is a gift." Super cool that the Flash's powers have changed from "able to do anything you want through pure speed and imagination" to "you'll kill everybody if you don't focus hard enough, you're now just a bomb with legs." I hope they continue this trend and make it so every Green Lantern ring just gives everybody space cancer unless you really really concentrate on that not happening. And Superman is now constantly working to prevent himself from puking up acid on everyone 24/7.
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Apr 24, 2019 15:32
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Archyduchess posted:Is there any actual evidence that Tom King committed war-crimes (I mean aside from the general project of being part of the US military apparatus) because that seems like a pretty hefty thing to lob at somebody for writing a lovely comic. Well if you consider every one who fought or participated in a war a war criminal then yes, he will fit that description. Also lol at DC for returning a beloved character in a comic that was supposed to be about hope and love (Rebirth) and then doing this to that character. I like King but wouldn't touch HiC as it just seemed like warm over Identity Crisis (right down to the incomprehensible "mystery") and I am glad I am staying away from the title.
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Apr 24, 2019 16:45
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I was kind of enjoying Titans until HiC came along and clipped half the cast.
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Apr 24, 2019 18:12
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The DC solicits for July seem interesting. I think I’m in for the Matt Fraction Jimmy Olsen and Greg Rucka Lois Lane miniseries.
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Apr 24, 2019 19:24
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A Fancy Hat posted:Super cool that the Flash's powers have changed from "able to do anything you want through pure speed and imagination" to "you'll kill everybody if you don't focus hard enough, you're now just a bomb with legs." Well, there have been some good Superman stories and some cool Superman story beats on this note; I'm sure there are others but the only examples I can think of when I try to come up with examples are Supes's.
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Apr 24, 2019 22:03
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blast0rama posted:Now that DC Universe is caught up through a year ago, any recommended reads for say, the past 10 years? New52 had a handful is really cool smaller series that kind of flew under the radar. I highly recommend All-Star Western and Demon Knights. Other than that, Teenage Fansub's post above covers everything else I would recommend.
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Apr 24, 2019 22:26
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I still like Tom King but HiC is extremely dumb. That caveman guy was the best/possibly only good part of the whole thing. I'm not mad because I'm a huge fan of any of the characters getting poo poo on either--it's just not a good comic, and I agree with people who think the way it was marketed was a pretty lovely bait and switch.
Dr Kool-AIDS fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Apr 24, 2019 |
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Apr 24, 2019 23:15
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So this is the second comic (After Batman 50) that Tom King is reporting a bunch of death threats over. Do all of the other people who write big controversial comics not scratch a certain itch that leads people to threatening death at [Bendis/Johns/Aaron/Brubaker/Morrison/Robinson/Snyder/Soule/Slott/Spencer/Coates/Jurgens/Marz/Fraction/Rucka/Hickman/Simonson/Mackie/Whedon/Austen/Vaughn/Millar/Miller/Tomasi or anyone else who has written a comic where an unpopular thing happened to a beloved character] the way Tom "I Get A Lot of Death Threats" does, or are they all getting hella death threats and brushing them off?
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Apr 24, 2019 23:21
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That sucks, I don't like either Batman 50 or HiC, but sending someone death threats over fictional stories is insane. If I had to guess I'd say that other creators must have received death threats at some point too, just because of the way the internet works, but Batman 50 may have actually been an outlier that's made King faster to point out when it's happening in the future.
Dr Kool-AIDS fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Apr 24, 2019 |
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Apr 24, 2019 23:25
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Edge & Christian posted:So this is the second comic (After Batman 50) that Tom King is reporting a bunch of death threats over. If I were to guess based on reading Twitter for the last couple of years, yes everyone who is some sort of celebrity gets a death threat for everything they do. Edit: or dick pics
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Apr 24, 2019 23:32
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I think we're one just more "I still like Tom King, but...!" post away from a bingo card. And like, I'm sorry, I don't want King to be getting death threats but I am neither surprised nor will I lose any sleep about it? Non-white, female, and queer creators have been receiving far worse than that for years upon decades on the internet for merely existing, so for degenerates to snipe at Tom King because he wrote the most mind-bogglingly lovely comic in recent memory is like...whatever. Anyway. Tynion's depiction of Circe in JL Dark always gives me life, fills me with much needed energy in these trying times. I love that he depicted her in her classic Perez look during the flashback with Zatara. I love it when writers play around with metafiction like that, make it seem like the DCU has a persistent history that adds to its personality. Also, an extra year is added to my lifetime any time Xermanico draws an issue of Wonder Woman.
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Apr 24, 2019 23:57
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BrianWilly posted:I think we're one just more "I still like Tom King, but...!" post away from a bingo card. 'Death threats are bad, but...!' is way better, you're right.
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Apr 24, 2019 23:59
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So is the message of Heroes in Crisis that going to therapy will just kill you and everyone you love about and is generally a bad idea? Cuz that's what I'm getting out of this. Christ!
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Apr 25, 2019 00:23
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Nessus posted:So is the message of Heroes in Crisis that going to therapy will just kill you and everyone you love about and is generally a bad idea? Cuz that's what I'm getting out of this. Christ! There are outlier cases in which therapy can leave people worse off than they were before, despite generally being the best option for people since good outcomes are way more common than bad outcomes, but yeah this seems like a pretty tone deaf/tasteless story when you get down to it. Maybe it's proof that superhero punchman comics just aren't ready to deal with the topic respectfully, maybe there's a theme here he didn't manage to get across (the killings being due to losing control rather than willful murder probably means something in his head, but who knows), and/or maybe this is just a writer who needs a tighter leash from editorial when playing with company toys, particularly in a comic marketed up as an event complete with Crisis in the name rather than him playing with misfits most people don't have super strong attachments to like Vision or Mister Miracle. IMO everyone involved hosed up there.
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Apr 25, 2019 00:35
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Sinteres posted:'Death threats are bad, but...!' is way better, you're right. I wasn't even thinking about Comicsgate-style harassment/threat campaigns when I was thinking about King's threats. I will say that to my knowledge Tom King is the only person to have a personal bodyguard to protect him from said threats at SDCC last summer, which is noteworthy. Also the fact that a lot of the narrative I've seen (both with Batman 50 and now) is very much "oh no, people who didn't like the book have sent the creator death threats. Therefore, we should really just lay off and not criticize this book, it's not worth death threats, get some perspective!" which is not something I definitely do not remember happening with [Superior Spider-Man/Secret Empire/etc.] You can not like a story and it doesn't automatically lump you into "other people who didn't like it are sending death threats so you know, look at yourself. Do you want to be like them?" I could be incredibly wrong and unfair, but that's what this feels like?
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Apr 25, 2019 01:17
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i think that's just an online culture shift more than anything directly related to King or his writing
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Apr 25, 2019 01:19
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Edge & Christian posted:I was wrong about other creators not talking about getting death threats and that is on me. Your post was fine, I was characterizing BrianWilly's that way. And sure, the existence of death threats doesn't and shouldn't mean you can't criticize the comic--both this and Batman 50 deserve criticism, even if some idiots take it too far. Some unhinged people disliking something doesn't mean it's good, so saying where it or the people who worked on it fell short is fair game, even if there are other ways of talking about it that cross the line.
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Apr 25, 2019 01:25
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Edge & Christian posted:I could be incredibly wrong and unfair, but that's what this feels like? No, it feels disingenuous to me too, and of a part with the somewhat tacky or sleazy way imo that violence or the hint of violence swirls around the Tom King "myth," up to and including, I guess, the fallout from the Twist Street thing.
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Apr 25, 2019 01:26
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Edge & Christian posted:I wasn't even thinking about Comicsgate-style harassment/threat campaigns when I was thinking about King's threats. I will say that to my knowledge Tom King is the only person to have a personal bodyguard to protect him from said threats at SDCC last summer, which is noteworthy. Also, wasn't the bodyguard actually a mild sex pest, or is that me misremembering something else?
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Apr 25, 2019 01:28
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Guess I should just wait another 15 years for this to clear up. So long, Wally.
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Apr 25, 2019 01:33
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Two Tone Shoes posted:Guess I should just wait another 15 years for this to clear up. So long, Wally. They'll reboot way before 15 years from now. Might retcon before that too. Dr Kool-AIDS fucked around with this message at 01:40 on Apr 25, 2019 |
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Apr 25, 2019 01:37
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Admiralty Flag posted:Wasn't that a joke and the bodyguard was just a friend of his? quote:I was assigned a bodyguard by my con agent,” he clarified. [...] What I got was a mere percentage of with some people get... There used to be a bounty on my head from the loving Taliban — I can deal with a few Twitter followers. quote:Also, wasn't the bodyguard actually a mild sex pest, or is that me misremembering something else? That was a news story a month or so later, yes.
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Apr 25, 2019 01:41
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I love Tom King. His Mister Miracle run was amazing. 😊 Anyone who send death threats need to get out.
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Apr 25, 2019 01:45
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Edge & Christian posted:It still isn't entire clear, here's King's statements from the week after SDCC (I think I missed this at the time, beyond "DC/WB did not hire the bodyguard") Wow.
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Apr 25, 2019 01:46
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This all reminds me of a tweet from Mark Waid who said if he did The Return of Barry Allen today he'd be dead in the streets before the second issue was released.
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Apr 25, 2019 02:04
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Sinteres posted:They'll reboot way before 15 years from now. Might retcon before that too. Lol if you think Wally is surviving a reboot. He didn't survive the last one.
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Apr 25, 2019 02:08
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Two Tone Shoes posted:Guess I should just wait another 15 years for this to clear up. So long, Wally. They can't reboot until after Doomsday Clock finishes so yeah 15 years seems about right.
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Apr 25, 2019 02:15
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It wouldn't surprise me if HiC and Leviathan are the reasons for the delays. The shocker scene at the end of Dclock last time was Lex asking Lois if she heard about Wally West. I'm guessing before HiC the answer was no, and now the answer has to be changed to yes since, well, Lois knows Wally's that one superhero who killed a bunch of other superheroes and then framed two innocent people for the crime.
Two Tone Shoes fucked around with this message at 02:40 on Apr 25, 2019 |
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Apr 25, 2019 02:26
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Doomsday Clock was originally supposed to wrap up last year. If they're actively revising it to sync up with anything coming out right now in ways that weren't always planned, they're crazy.
Dr Kool-AIDS fucked around with this message at 02:35 on Apr 25, 2019 |
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Apr 25, 2019 02:32
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Two Tone Shoes posted:It wouldn't surprise me if HiC and Leviathan are the reasons for the delays. The shocker scene at the end of Dclock last time was Lex asking Lois if she heard about Wally West. I'm guessing before HiC the answer was no, and now the answer has to be changed to yes since, well, Lois knows Wally's that one superhero who killed a bunch of other superheroes and then framed two innocent people for the crime. You hosed up yr spoiler tags, bro
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Apr 25, 2019 02:37
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