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david_a posted:the Sukhoi T-4 That is loving cool. Can you find any cockpit photos? I couldn't find any.
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Apr 24, 2019 14:13
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Sagebrush posted:I do think that "what is the cheapest aircraft to keep flying" is a more interesting question, though. There are more Cessna 172s in the world than there are any other plane, so there are effectively infinite spare parts available, and anyone can repair an O-320. But 172s still have electronics in them, and vacuum instruments, and other things with delicate little parts. Something like a 120 would be cheaper to run since it can burn mogas and doesn't have an electrical system. But it's also made with doped canvas; that's more prone to damage than an aluminum skin, and takes more skill to repair. what plane has the fewest parts in it to break, and the easiest repair job when they do? I've got to give the edge to 172s, not only are they pretty easy to keep flying, but they put up with unimaginable amounts of abuse from students. Before I started instructing I considered buying a plane and doing a leaseback to the school. I do not have this wish any longer.
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Apr 24, 2019 14:38
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david_a posted:I figured someone would bring this up but in the context of trying to keep an ancient plane flying I don’t buy it at all. There’s what, a single F-4 Phantom in private hands and they may or may not get it flying. It’s not just the engines but all the additional expense that goes with a plane that’s like 30 years newer than the WW2 prop planes. That cockpit glass angle...
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Apr 24, 2019 14:45
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PhotoKirk posted:That cockpit glass angle... Don't worry, the nose covered it most of the time: Wikipedia posted:The aircraft's droop-nose lowered to provide visibility during takeoff and landing. A periscope was used for forward viewing when the nose was retracted, and could be employed at speeds of up to 600 km/h (370 mph). So no forward visibility at all above that speed? Are there many other aircraft out there with this kind of compromise?
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Apr 24, 2019 15:08
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Inacio posted:That is loving cool. Can you find any cockpit photos? I couldn't find any.
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Apr 24, 2019 15:14
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Buttcoin purse posted:Don't worry, the nose covered it most of the time: Spirit of St. Louis comes to mind.
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Apr 24, 2019 15:17
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Buttcoin purse posted:Don't worry, the nose covered it most of the time: Concorde and the XB-70.
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Apr 24, 2019 15:17
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Concorde at least was polite enough to pretend.
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Apr 24, 2019 15:21
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If I were mega-wealthy and spare parts were made of magic, I'd probably buy a F-4 Phantom or a Tomcat
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Apr 24, 2019 16:02
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Cheapest aircraft to own is going to be some kind of really simple ultralight. I nominate the Ultraflight Lazair. It uses a pair of two stroke motors from a common firefighting pump that still has parts available. Model airplane props are cheap. The airframe itself is mostly aluminum and is covered in a plastic film. The original Tedlar is hard to find these days but you can use conventional aircraft fabric or boat wrap if you are really cheap.
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Apr 24, 2019 16:22
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Buttcoin purse posted:So no forward visibility at all above that speed? Are there many other aircraft out there with this kind of compromise? "Stop pissing, Yuri. Give me a stopwatch and a map and I'll fly through the Alps in a plane with no windows."
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Apr 24, 2019 16:31
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BIG HEADLINE posted:"Stop pissing, Yuri. Give me a stopwatch and a map and I'll fly through the Alps in a plane with no windows." "Captain, we're out of position by so much as a boatlength!"
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Apr 24, 2019 16:50
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azflyboy posted:My first guess would be something like the F7U, since they were difficult to fly, not terribly reliable when new, and used engines that were built in small numbers, had short overhaul intervals, and weren't known for being reliable at the time either. Some nutter is actually restoring an F7U to airworthy. FuturePastNow posted:If I were mega-wealthy and spare parts were made of magic, I'd probably buy a F-4 Phantom or a Tomcat They'd have to be extra magic, because the navy tracked down every F-14 part in existence in order to destroy them so the Iranians couldn't get their hands on any spares. Even going back and demilling museum airframes, or so I heard, which is even dumber. Plastic_Gargoyle fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Apr 24, 2019 |
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Apr 24, 2019 17:13
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Plastic_Gargoyle posted:Some nutter is actually restoring an F7U to airworthy. Careful, if he's tweeting about it, he may get reported for suicidal behavior.
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Apr 24, 2019 17:16
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BIG HEADLINE posted:"Stop pissing, Yuri. Give me a stopwatch and a map and I'll fly through the Alps in a plane with no windows." More like: "Colonel Yuri, this is control. Turn westwards 9 degrees, you are off course." "But control, I believe there is a mountain range known as the Caucasus there, you may be famili..." "Colonel Yuri, do you need assistance from the commissar?  "
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Apr 24, 2019 22:13
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Plastic_Gargoyle posted:Some nutter is actually restoring an F7U to airworthy. A GRIM WARNING FROM HISTORY
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Apr 25, 2019 00:23
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Apr 25, 2019 00:33
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I thought suicide was illegal
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Apr 25, 2019 00:39
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Disney playing the long game.
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Apr 25, 2019 00:42
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Well that's surely in the spirit of the thread title
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Apr 25, 2019 00:48
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Let me at it.
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Apr 25, 2019 00:49
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I mean having an F-104 type rating is pretty loving baller.
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Apr 25, 2019 00:52
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I'd love to know what their insurance premiums are. "Wait...say that again. You want to train people to fly *what*?"
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Apr 25, 2019 00:53
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Some super right wing dude I knew online once used to go on these camps where some ex army instructor dude would teach them things he taught in the army, like urban warfare around some conrecte walls, saying HUT HUT HUT and clearing rooms while holding your AR-whatever-it-is high on your chest and really SUPER HARD acting like you are a tough military dude, even though you are most definitely not. It was probably quite expensive. This F-104 thing seems like exactly the same thing, just for richer customers.
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Apr 25, 2019 00:54
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Awesome type to have experienced and have in your logbook, but you stay subsonic and in the 30's. If I had the money for this kind of experience, I'd be leaning toward taking it to Germany or Russia.
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Apr 25, 2019 01:01
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Ola posted:Some super right wing dude I knew online once used to go on these camps where some ex army instructor dude would teach them things he taught in the army, like urban warfare around some conrecte walls, saying HUT HUT HUT and clearing rooms while holding your AR-whatever-it-is high on your chest and really SUPER HARD acting like you are a tough military dude, even though you are most definitely not. It was probably quite expensive. This F-104 thing seems like exactly the same thing, just for richer customers. Lots of people offer this sort of stuff and there are a decent number of posters in TFR who have taken shooting classes vaguely similar to that.
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Apr 25, 2019 01:34
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I tell you what though, the starfighter wears blue dazzle very well!
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Apr 25, 2019 02:10
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BIG HEADLINE posted:I'd love to know what their insurance premiums are. F-104 probably isn’t THAT bad if you don’t go below 10k ft outside of the pattern.
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Apr 25, 2019 03:00
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Someone should start a GoFundMe to send that Jerry guy to F-104 class.
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Apr 25, 2019 04:03
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Minto Took posted:Concorde at least was polite enough to pretend. I don't get it, https://www.heritageconcorde.com/nose-and-visor-general gives me the impression that you could still see out the front to some extent with the visor retracted, are you saying it's not worthy of being called visibility? Looks okay from the animation to me. Sounds like the initial aircraft did not include this until the FAA objected.
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Apr 25, 2019 05:15
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Yenko said the Concorde had no front visibility with the nosecone up. I was saying that while Concorde did have windows, the visibility was still pretty poo poo.
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Apr 25, 2019 05:39
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vessbot posted:Awesome type to have experienced and have in your logbook, but you stay subsonic and in the 30's. If I had the money for this kind of experience, I'd be leaning toward taking it to Germany or Russia. I don't know if they still do it, but the Russians used to offer "edge of space" experiences via zoom climbs in mig 29s.
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Apr 25, 2019 05:45
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Carth Dookie posted:I don't know if they still do it, but the Russians used to offer "edge of space" experiences via zoom climbs in mig 29s. MiG-29M2 I'm guessing?
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Apr 25, 2019 05:49
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Nebakenezzer posted:Actually, that sparks a question in me: given magic to give a viable starting point, what airplane would be hardest/most expensive to keep in flying condition? I'm gonna go with "The F-117's stacked up in a climate controlled bunker off the airstrip next to Groom Lake, aka Area 51, aka Tonopah Test Range," we finally, after it has been exposed for many decades, admit exists." well, gently caress. this won't link. sorry about the [E]dit, I have to re-host this:  https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/16092/pictures-emerge-of-covered-f-117-being-transported-on-a-trailer-in-southern-nevada MisterOblivious fucked around with this message at 07:39 on Apr 25, 2019 |
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Apr 25, 2019 07:03
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Platystemon posted:Disney playing the long game. Well done Alex Rogan. Meanwhile nature is upping their military research and now have aircraft carriers:  And a parasitic fighter about to launch off: 
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Apr 25, 2019 07:21
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hobbesmaster posted:F-104 probably isn’t THAT bad if you don’t go below 10k ft outside of the pattern. Given its glide ratio, 10k feet is probably your best pattern altitude.
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Apr 25, 2019 07:22
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Ola posted:I think in addition to sentimentality there is, as mentioned above, a large rich guy look-at-me factor in play. Some rich guy out in the middle of nowhere near where I grew up suddenly put up a warbird museum and puts on air shows and I really want to give him that "look-at-me" attention he wants. If you make it to the bottom of this post I think you'll agree that, just maybe, he deserves it. I can't imagine the megabucks it takes buy and restore 14 aircraft, 2 gliders, and a dozen vehicles. Like the dude went loving hard into restoring warbirds and the whole thing came as something of a shock to me to discover. None of this was there when I moved away ~15 years ago: most of the buildup happened in the last 5 or so years. Kinda bummed I didn't find out sooner 'cause I'd like to maybe have stopped by once a trip a year I take out there. http://www.fagenfighterswwiimuseum.org/aircraft/aircraft.html List of flying aircraft this dude('s museum) owns, for those that don't want to click the link: Fighters: (2) P-51D P-38J P-40E (Kittyhawk Mk IA) P-40K (Kittyhawk Mk III) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtiss_P-40_Warhawk#Variants_and_development_stages FM-2 (Grumman F4F Wildcat. FM-2) Bomber: B-25 Trainers: PT-19 PT-22 PT-26 (aka, PT-19 with the Ranger L-440 engine BT-13 ERCOUPE JN-4 SNJ-4 Texan Non-flying Gliders: Waco CG-4A. Reproduction. This is the glider that showed up in the reddit thread recently when some dude was like "what the gently caress is this thing I just found near a powerline in the middle of nowhere Utah?" a few months ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/whatisthisthing/comments/alh8gn/found_in_the_middle_of_nowhere_utah_while/ (I'm trying to put the two parties into contact) Laister-Kauffman TG-4A. Not listed on wikipedia as a surviving example of the 153 built, the museum doesn't claim their gliders fly nor that they're original. An article about the chief mechanic: https://www.airspacemag.com/flight-today/restorative-genius-18158162/ He won "Grand Champion Warbird" at Oshkosh at 27 for one of his P-40 restorations. Sounds like they had restored 3 aircraft to flying by 2007 (P-40E, P-40K, one of the two P-51's. Working on restoring the P-38 in 2007). The museum opened in 2012. They've got 14 restored and flying airplanes right now. The owner was inducted into the Aviation Hall of Fame in 2018. Like I said at the top, "the dude went loving hard into it." Oh, and they do vehicles too: http://www.fagenfighterswwiimuseum.org/vehicles/vehicles.html. MisterOblivious fucked around with this message at 07:44 on Apr 25, 2019 |
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Apr 25, 2019 07:39
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StandardVC10 posted:Given its glide ratio, 10k feet is probably your best pattern altitude.  7000fpm descent in clean condition with the engine out 
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Apr 25, 2019 07:40
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e: double post
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Apr 25, 2019 07:41
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MisterOblivious posted:I'm gonna go with "The F-117's stacked up in a climate controlled bunker off the airstrip next to Groom Lake, aka Area 51, aka Tonopah Test Range," we finally, after it has been exposed for many decades, admit exists." When I took the tour at Edwards, the group got to see (and touch) this thing: http://www.aerotechnews.com/edwardsafb/2016/07/16/museum-launches-give-to-restore-campaign/ That hangar has a ton of neat poo poo in it that'll eventually find its way into the new Flight Test Museum they're building.
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Apr 25, 2019 07:45
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