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Caros posted:Man who literally sacrifices his life to save those he cares about is unwilling to make the sacrifice play. That is your argument? Or that he isn't willing to sacrifice the life of his innocent daughter for the 'greater good'? Why are you putting greater good in scare quotes? It's literally the greater good in the starkest terms possible
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Apr 24, 2019 22:33
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Apr 24, 2019 22:33
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So I'm scared of reading this thread because spoilers everywhere but has anybody found a good article or short vid online with a "Things you need to remember from the other Marvel movies before you watch Endgame" thing? I'm good, but my wife has I think forgotten a lot of stuff.
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Apr 24, 2019 22:37
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Darko posted:Bill and Ted has no errors. I’d wager that most time-travel films make sense, with the exception of, like, Back To The Future.
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Apr 24, 2019 22:43
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Daddy Thanos posted:Why are you putting greater good in scare quotes? It's literally the greater good in the starkest terms possible Because I don't accept the premise that rolling things back by killing the innocent is 'the greater good'. Even if we accept the argument that the death of own girl is worth it if it relieves all the mental trauma and societal problems of reving people now as opposed to rolling things back, that is a false premise. 131 million people are born ever year. Take half that, round it down to a cool 50 million since people might nor be so eager to gently caress as much. That is 250 million children they are erasing (killing) , just on earth, by rolling things back to pre-snap. Greater good is a hell of a lot murkier when you are talking about killing hundreds of millions of children.
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Apr 24, 2019 22:54
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This movie was heavy on the cheese and quickly dating jokes. Cringing during rewatch will be at an all time high. It’s cool when the God of Thunder does God of Thunder stuff tho. Can never get enough of that.
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Apr 24, 2019 22:55
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Caros posted:Because I don't accept the premise that rolling things back by killing the innocent is 'the greater good'. It isn't just half of all human life being measured against one life. It's half of the entire universe. Not that it makes any difference though.
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Apr 24, 2019 23:03
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ymgve posted:Also, reading a few pages back, some of you either haven't seen the movie yet or failed to grasp how time travel worked. They never do anything in the past that affects "our" timeline, the act of going back and interfering makes time branch, and when they return everything still happened just as it did. They don't even necessarily need to bring the stones back to the respective universes they took them from, that's just because they want to leave the alternate timelines as unfucked as possible. Loki escaping with the stone doesn't matter because it happens in IronCap branch A, and when they travel back a second time they steal the stone from IronCap branch B. Nu-Thanos came from a timeline that already split off - that timeline will never have a snap event due to the lack of him, but that is not our timeline-prime where the snap did and always will have happened. This is something that took me a while to come around to, but you're right. Even if they went back to the battle of Wakanda, the main timeline is still five years after the snap. Going back and killing Thanos then would just make another dimension because what they do in the past doesn't really effect the present. Tony's being adamant that they don't undo his five years is selfish, but ultimately unnecessary because they can't do it anyways. As lovely as the world is after they kill the time-displaced Thanos and bring everyone back five years after the apocalypse, that's the best situation they can hope for. It's not quite a pyrrhic victory, maybe bittersweet is a better word for it. Honestly it feels like they wrote themselves into a corner and refused to write their way out of it because they were married to some of the ideas they had, that 5 year time jump being one of them.
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Apr 24, 2019 23:03
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SCheeseman posted:It's explained as him managing to find an equilibrium, it's not handwaved and is touched upon a little but the exposition is pretty brief. Though that along with Stark's daughter help establish that a lot has changed over those 5 years, some of it for good, there are things that people don't want to give up and not reversing those things was a condition of Stark's help in developing the time travel tech. Bringing everyone back as opposed to messing with their own timeline makes sense in that context, even if the universe they return to is in a bit of a mess. like bacteria and mushrooms I would have loved if the beer gut alcoholic Thor poo poo was toned down, like it’s cool that it’s there but he should have been more ashamed of himself and tried to hide and minimise that side of himself, to keep the eyes from rolling with the cheese. Cool to see both the hammer and storm breaker used concomitantly, but I also really wanted cap to make some kind of comment to Thor like “mate this hammer is fuckin’ badass” Also as much as I’m not fussed on a GOTG with Thor, I like seeing the two Chris’s act together
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Apr 24, 2019 23:07
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Everyone lost their poo poo at our theater when Cap started wielding Mjölnir
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Apr 24, 2019 23:15
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since captain america is the one who returns the stones i'm wondering how the conversation with soul stone guardian red skull would go "uhhhh hey dude, remember me" also how does one even return the soul stone
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Apr 24, 2019 23:17
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R. Guyovich posted:since captain america is the one who returns the stones i'm wondering how the conversation with soul stone guardian red skull would go toss it back down the hole and pray that Nat gets spit back up.
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Apr 24, 2019 23:21
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R. Guyovich posted:since captain america is the one who returns the stones i'm wondering how the conversation with soul stone guardian red skull would go Maybe Cap kept that one for himself and used it in the wedding ring he gave Peggy. Or maybe he killed Red Skull to put the stone back. Or maybe not. Or maybe just gently caress everything.
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Apr 24, 2019 23:22
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R. Guyovich posted:since captain america is the one who returns the stones i'm wondering how the conversation with soul stone guardian red skull would go Carefully.
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Apr 24, 2019 23:37
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Caros posted:Cap still has his time travel equipment, and as shown with the sidetrack to 1970, they are able to pick a new destination with it. Cap marries Peggy, has his happy life, and towards the end of it he jumps back to his original timeline in order to give away the new shield. SuperMechagodzilla posted:That actually “makes sense”. Steve A goes to MCU B and marries Peggy B. They live together for 70 years, then Steve B gets defrosted - so Steve A steals the unbroken shield and runs back to MCU A. Ah, I see I was wrong. All complaints cheerfully withdrawn! I was confused by the spoilers that Iron Man demanded they leave the last five years unchanged, so I thought they could change things but they couldn't. All they would have done is create a timeline where Lil Stark didn't exist for example, but the one where she did would still be there. So Stark was worried about nothing, the big idiot.
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Apr 24, 2019 23:46
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thanos' plan to remake the entire universe so that the moron brigade stop undoing his work is supposed to be the thematic opposite of stark's plan to make people not-dead but leave everything the same otherwise, which is why it's Good and Moral for him to care more about his daughter than the entire universe the power of god and two time machines is nothing compared to status quo
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Apr 24, 2019 23:50
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Caros posted:I have to say, it does feel weird to see you say that 'Sacrificing himself is at odds with his ideology', given that Tony was willing to, and nearly did, sacrifice himself in both previous Avengers films. He carries the nuke through the portal in the first film, under the assumption that it might kill him, and he isn't sure if either he or thor is going to survive breaking the vibranium in AoU. Sacrificing himself is actually pretty solidly in character, doubly so when he knows that if he fails that Thanos is going to murder his family, along with everyone else. The point is that he should've grown past that, by the progression of the movie narratives. Iron Man 1: Shithead war profiteer almost dies, uses his intellect and abilities to becomes hero rather than military industrial complex death dealer (ostensibly). Iron Man 2: Finds that being a hero can't nullify the sense of emptiness he feels about his own legacy and his place in his father's legacy, overcomes that and shows willingness to work with others. Avengers: Learns to be part of a team, voluntarily sacrifices himself to save the world, it doesn't stick and he gets a second chance to be a better person. Iron Man 3: Scarred by his 2nd near death experience, has to accept that he can be a hero without needing the Iron Man identity. Avengers 2: Is explicitly driven to find a way to stop conflict, fails because he won't listen (and also outside meddling). The Sikovia pillar thing isn't a suicide run; the uncertainty is from the fact that he doesn't know if it'll actually work and stop widespread destruction. Civil War: Still driven by guilt of his war profiteer past, compacted by the fact that even as Iron Man there is still collateral damage that he cant prevent, accepts the fact that heroes shouldn't be allowed to run free. Damages one friendship and nearly loses another completely because he can't find a way to get things to work. Also reinforces the fact that he has unresolved issues as a result of his parent's untimely death. Homecoming: Takes on Spider-man as a surrogate son, mentors him, accepts his own ability to be a good, if flawed, influence. Infinity War: Accepts that he can't defend the planet alone, is about to call Rogers before Thanos' henchmen show up. Takes point in the fight on Titan, but defers to both Strange and Quill's guidance & planning in service of the greater good. Goes toe to toe with Thanos even though he knows he can't win - just like Cap would. Also it's not for nothing that during their confrontation, Thanos names him. "Stark". Not Iron Man. Why? Because the man is more important than the symbol. Tony has already sacrificed himself once, but when he did that he had no attachments and a lot of self-loathing. It was as much a hope for absolution as altruism. But he lived and learned that it's not that easy to get let off the hook, that he can do more good alive, and now he has families that need him (his own with Pepper, his bond with Parker, and the Avengers). That the plot contrives to make it so that the one reality where they win is the one where he dies is bullshit, because it undoes several movies worth of character development. Him saying "I'm Iron Man" is a nice call back, but it's not where the character is at this point. It's a set of circumstances that only make sense if Tony hasn't learned anything in the past 5 movies. . I'm sure it's well done. RDJ has been stepping up his game incrementally with each movie, so I believe that he sells it. It still doesn't make sense though. In the long run it doesn't matter anyway, so 
Mat Cauthon fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Apr 24, 2019 |
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Apr 24, 2019 23:52
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garycoleisgod posted:Ah, I see I was wrong. All complaints cheerfully withdrawn! Yeah, as messed up as the world is now, it's the best outcome after five years passing. Even if they went back and killed Thanos in Wakanda before the snap, it wouldn't do anything for the main timeline. Tony's demand was ultimately unecessary. I'm not particularly happy with the idea to just bring everyone back into what is effectively a hellworld 5 years after the apocalypse because so much else would have gone wrong in that time, maybe Hulk wished for a couple other things when he had the gauntlet.
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Apr 24, 2019 23:54
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I had to see this for work and I was loving dreading it after the blue screen exposition-ganza of Infinity War. I also skipped Captain Marvel. And it was actually really good. God dammit I'm a sucker for a time travel caper. Completely understand the positive reviews now.
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Apr 24, 2019 23:55
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scott missed his daughter growing up. similar experiences happened to billions. spider man far from home: whoa that sucked huh? so who's up for a fun europe trip?????
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Apr 25, 2019 00:02
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Does Nebula take off with Thor and the Guardians at the end?
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Apr 25, 2019 00:06
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Shneak posted:Does Nebula take off with Thor and the Guardians at the end? Yeah.
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Apr 25, 2019 00:39
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Shneak posted:Does Nebula take off with Thor and the Guardians at the end? On the same line, does the Gamora from the past go with them or back to her timeline?
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Apr 25, 2019 00:48
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Necrothatcher posted:I had to see this for work and I was loving dreading it after the blue screen exposition-ganza of Infinity War. I also skipped Captain Marvel. Interesting, I think I enjoyed it significantly less. The cheese was overwhelming, when time travel experiments ends up with babies and old men, and the sheer amount of nonsense sci-fi jargon waving, having every single person turn up, the “we are women united” scene (it didn’t really bother me it’s just cheesy but couldn’t help but think “poo poo some morons on the internet are going to hate on that part”), hulk selfies and dabs, etc come to mind. Perhaps I will enjoy it more off the big screen idk. Glad I saw it on opening night, just to hear the collective groan when it became clear there wasn’t an after credits scene. And by gently caress were those some long credits lmao
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Apr 25, 2019 00:49
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As Nero Danced posted:On the same line, does the Gamora from the past go with them or back to her timeline? she takes off on her own and quill is looking at a "SEARCHING..." screen with her picture on it in the guardians' last scene. so gotg3 will be thor+guardians searching for spock uhhh i mean gamora and trying to restore her memory or get her back to how she used to be.
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Apr 25, 2019 01:04
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As Nero Danced posted:On the same line, does the Gamora from the past go with them or back to her timeline? she knees quill in the ‘nads
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Apr 25, 2019 01:09
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Hey, can I add the one thing I'm actually salty about? Cool that we get a black Cap and I know that the shield passing on scene is super important, but after like two entire movies where Bucky is Super Important To Cap can we like get a proper farewell scene there? He legit just gives a bro nod and a one liner while Tony gets a super emotional farewell with his primary supporting cast. And uh, natasha gets nothing. Like it's already 3 hours long, just stick in another 5 minutes no ones going anywhere.
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Apr 25, 2019 01:14
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I loved the time travel stuff Bit its padded out at both ends with a whole bunch of self indulgence
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Apr 25, 2019 01:17
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Necrothatcher posted:I had to see this for work and I was loving dreading it after the blue screen exposition-ganza of Infinity War. I also skipped Captain Marvel. Wait...your avatar...Mr. Flunchy? So you actually liked it? That'd give hope it's actually decent. EDIT: Sorry if I mistook you for someone else.
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Apr 25, 2019 01:24
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coolusername posted:Hey, can I add the one thing I'm actually salty about? i can't believe marvel would overstuff their big event crossover movie to the detriment of character development or satisfying arcs
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Apr 25, 2019 01:50
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We need End Game 2 : The actual End Also legit question : what kinds of things are proposed to happen in phase 4? Are we gonna see new characters or just tying up individual storylines
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Apr 25, 2019 01:55
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echinopsis posted:Also legit question : what kinds of things are proposed to happen in phase 4? Are we gonna see new characters or just tying up individual storylines My guess is Phase 4 will start with the Black Widow movie. Doctor Strange 2, Black Panther 2, Captain Marvel 2, and Guardians of the Galaxy 3 will all happen in Phase 4. Only new IPs slated so far are Eternals and Feige recently teased that Shang-Chi will maybe be a Phase 4 film. I have no idea what Eternals or Shang-Chi are. Kumail Nanjiani and Ma Dong-Seok have been cast for Eternals which is dope.
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Apr 25, 2019 01:59
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teagone posted:My guess is Phase 4 will start with the Black Widow movie. Doctor Strange 2, Black Panther 2, Captain Marvel 2, and Guardians of the Galaxy 3 will all happen in Phase 4. Only new IPs slated so far are Eternals and Feige recently teased that Shang-Chi will maybe be a Phase 4 film. I have no idea what Eternals or Shang-Chi are. Kumail Nanjiani and Ma Dong-Seok have been cast for Eternals which is dope. I'm glad to hear this because I'm watching Silicon Valley season 5 and I guess Kumail just gets to be "the dumb guy" now. 
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Apr 25, 2019 02:11
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echinopsis posted:This movie was heavy on the cheese and quickly dating jokes. Cringing during rewatch will be at an all time high. People...rewatch Marvel movies? These things are like two-hour CSIs for kids.
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Apr 25, 2019 02:30
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teagone posted:My guess is Phase 4 will start with the Black Widow movie. Doctor Strange 2, Black Panther 2, Captain Marvel 2, and Guardians of the Galaxy 3 will all happen in Phase 4. Only new IPs slated so far are Eternals and Feige recently teased that Shang-Chi will maybe be a Phase 4 film. I have no idea what Eternals or Shang-Chi are. Kumail Nanjiani and Ma Dong-Seok have been cast for Eternals which is dope. 🤔 thanks. I want to see most of those. especially gotg3 if it’s gonna be how it seems it may be
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Apr 25, 2019 02:31
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Mameluke posted:People...rewatch Marvel movies? These things are like two-hour CSIs for kids. 
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Apr 25, 2019 02:31
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I read the full synopsis...what the gently caress? Just battling through to Thanos and then undoing everything would have been A) a better movie and B) less hopelessly loving needlessly complicated. It's going to be great seeing the same people who thought BvS had too much going on defending this clusterfuck.
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Apr 25, 2019 02:32
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Mameluke posted:People...rewatch Marvel movies? These things are like two-hour CSIs for kids. there are entire cable channels devoted to playing and replaying nothing but CSI, Law and Order, and various other procedurals so your dumb insult doesn't even make sense
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Apr 25, 2019 03:03
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the best/worst bit was hawkeye's hair wait no it was his tattoo
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Apr 25, 2019 03:22
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Snowman_McK posted:I read the full synopsis...what the gently caress? Just battling through to Thanos and then undoing everything would have been A) a better movie and B) less hopelessly loving needlessly complicated. It's going to be great seeing the same people who thought BvS had too much going on defending this clusterfuck. both encounters with thanos are very hollow.
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Apr 25, 2019 03:23
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