|
Propaganda Machine posted:Melisandre went back to her home planet, right? It's been a while and I have zero desire for a rewatch. 
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2019 01:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 14:22 |
|
|
Aw poo poo  Varys
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2019 02:00
|
|
|
It's not like he's had anything to do for several seasons ...
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2019 09:50
|
|
|
He's in the Tyrion wagon of Dungeons and Dragons not knowing how to write him so he's just going to hang around doing nothing till her dies.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2019 10:42
|
|
|
He's a great advisor, that advises so little that Dany blames Tyrion, one of her like 5 other advisors, for bad decisions she makes. However to be fair, he doesn't have an army of spies to actually report Intel to him, like whether or not Cersei comes with her army or something useful, so there's nothing to do for him but be the target to dick jokes.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2019 11:02
|
|
|
Oh right remember all the Varys Littlefinger drama building them up as like the smartest two characters When we started the new season my wife is like "Oh is that Littlefinger" and I'm like no, Arya killed him and she took a while to remember how stupid it was that the entire storyline ended like that Its Coke posted:I agree but the Walkers are also the bad guys. The song of Ice and Fire is a song of both things that must be defeated The song of ice and fire: Rhaegar liked to sing songs. He married Lyanna, who is from the cold North and her family keeps talking about Winter. His family can stand in fires. Song of ice and fire is Jon
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2019 13:45
|
|
|
THE AWESOME GHOST posted:
No dummy, the song of ice and fire is about the comet in the first season bringing back magic (fire) and it being winter now (ice). That whole Targ/Stark, Lord of Light/Night King is just a coincidence.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2019 13:50
|
|
|
The futility of, as Davos mused, being ruled by Honorable Men is that they get out-played and murdered by dishonorable men. That was the central thesis of the old show but it isn't anymore. Tyrion and Varys have nothing to do because they're on the wrong show now. This is what happens when you build a world with rules then change them for narrative convenience. This is an epic now, and there's no place for skullduggery in an epic. They have plenty of things they should be doing. Half the great houses have been destroyed, giant castles are unoccupied and there is, logically, an abhorant power vacuum that's being filled even if we aren't seeing it. Cersei has no allies to peel off or plots to counteract and Lannister troops are fiercely loyal to her over Jaime because reasons. She's functionally just White Walker group B, an irrational problem that can only be solved by violence. How are the people of King's Landing tolerating being ruled by the lady who blew up the pope? Who even is her Queensguard now? Don't worry about it because the writers aren't. In a funnier world, the plot we're seeing would play out and whomever ends up on the Iron Throne gets immediately deposed by some previously minor Stormlord that's been consolidating power off-screen for a few seasons.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2019 15:02
|
|
|
Guy A. Person posted:I basically buy them because we know the big battle director is 3 and 5, and "Dany and Jon clean up some random mercenaries with their remaining dragon" would seem anti-climactic after finishing off the Night King in the first half of the season. The NK winning round 1, then episode 4 being a "flee and regroup" episode with maybe a few smaller skirmishes/surprise deaths, followed by a last stand somewhere else (King's Landing?) seems like the more logical and satisfying way to end the series. DrNutt posted:I mean the set photos and promo materials have so far made no secret of Winterfell being totally hosed. This is more plausible than those dumb poop ending leaks but still sounds like someone's educated guess fan-fiction. I doubt we're getting both the 20,000 golden company dudes AND the battle against the Others in some big battle royale because at least one of the other episodes is going to be another big battle. If Cersei's forces are done after ep 3, what kind of left field swerve is happening? Daario plot teleporting in with the Second Sons? Also I would hedge my bets on way more big deaths next episode with all the emotional payoffs they loaded into eps 1 and 2. Propaganda Machine posted:Melisandre went back to her home planet, right? It's been a while and I have zero desire for a rewatch.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2019 19:48
|
|
|
Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:The futility of, as Davos mused, being ruled by Honorable Men is that they get out-played and murdered by dishonorable men. That was the central thesis of the old show but it isn't anymore. To me, the only real logical ending is that the seven kingdoms become seven kingdoms because King's Landing and the Crownlands ruling all the others is clearly unsustainable. So it's going to be neat when King Jon Snow and Queen Daenerys sit the iron throne together and everything is perfect forever and ever.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2019 06:24
|
|
|
It’s gonna be a democracy and They’re gonna call it Americasteros to continue the Dany is Literally George Bush storyline from a couple of years ago
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2019 07:26
|
|
|
Mortabis posted:Is azor ahai the same as the prince who was promised? Don't recall Azor Ahai is the dude who kicked out the Others the first time. The most distinct aspect of his legend is that he got a sick-rear end flaming sword by killing his wife. He might eventually be reborn when the Others come back. The Prince-Who-Was-Promised is some prophetized figure Jon's father got obsessed with, which leads to him trying to engineer his own by seducing Lyanna Stark. It's hinted one character might be both of these at the time, making them a Chosen One figure squared.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2019 12:03
|
|
|
That can't be right, Azor Ahai is the volantis or wherever god dude, and the others were from north america.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2019 12:13
|
|
|
It's not explicit, but he fought against "the darkness" in ancient history (compare the Long Night) and there are hints that Essos had its own version of the Wall in the form of old ruined castles.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2019 12:17
|
|
|
kater posted:That can't be right, Azor Ahai is the volantis or wherever god dude, and the others were from north america. You mean mega-Britain, right? Their known world mostly consists of mega-Britain named Westeros and a smaller Eurasia named Essos.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2019 12:23
|
|
|
It's Big Britain and Big Turkey doing double duty as Fantasy Europe and Fantasy Asia.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2019 12:27
|
|
|
Oh right I forgot that is an actual thing
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2019 12:43
|
|
|
Wait wasn't there a kid Targ on a boat somewhere, I thought that was Aegon? Am I getting the books and show confused? this is all so dumb
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2019 15:05
|
|
|
COOL CORN posted:Wait wasn't there a kid Targ on a boat somewhere, I thought that was Aegon? Little Griff doesn't exist in the show . He's a take on this guy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perkin_Warbeck Which coincidentally makes varys a pointless character since in the book he's backing little Griff and in the show is just standing around aimlessly
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2019 15:14
|
|
|
COOL CORN posted:Wait wasn't there a kid Targ on a boat somewhere, I thought that was Aegon? That was from the books. Rhaegar isn't very creative and named both his son from Elia Martell and Lyana Stark Aegon
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2019 15:27
|
|
|
COOL CORN posted:Wait wasn't there a kid Targ on a boat somewhere, I thought that was Aegon? Rhaegar Targaryen had two sons from two ladies and confusingly named both of them Aegon. In the books one of them is maybe dead and the other one is maybe Jon Snow, and in the show one of them is definitely dead and the other one is definietly Jon Snow. Edit: beaten like book Aegon by Gregor
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2019 15:28
|
|
|
Jon being named aegon is something not in the books right?
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2019 16:20
|
|
|
kater posted:Jon being named aegon is something not in the books right? Right. It's doubtful his name will be Aegon whenever we learn what it is.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2019 16:22
|
|
|
Aejon Look the books are moot, they're fanfiction, they'll never be finished. All we get as a conclusion is the show and that's it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2019 16:33
|
|
|
Ae Ae Ron
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2019 16:38
|
|
|
kater posted:Jon being named aegon is something not in the books right? there's absolutely nothing about rhaegar getting legally remarried so jon can have the better claim, or jon's real name. sam's entire purpose in going to the citadel (as well as jaqen h'ghar) is in the books that will never happen
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2019 16:55
|
|
|
There’s an Aegon Targaryen in the books, but he’s supposed to be Rhaegar and Elia’s kid. “Supposed” because he’s totally not.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2019 17:13
|
|
|
The Unnamed One posted:There’s an Aegon Targaryen in the books, but he’s supposed to be Rhaegar and Elia’s kid. Well there was a an actual Aegon who was Rhaegar/Elia's kid but who reportedly got his skull smashed in by the Mountain, and "Young Griff" is supposed to be him (but you're right, he's totally not)
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2019 17:19
|
|
|
Young Griff is sort of the ultimate endpoint of that "power is other people's belief" monologue Varys had in the early season, it's not impossible he was planned at some point even though he's yet another bloat on the massive cast. "I'll educate some random kid into being the perfect King and fool everyone into believing he's a Targ, I have solved politics forever".
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2019 17:32
|
|
|
Did GRRM ever say why he committed himself to 7 books? Like there was a specific arc he had in mind that would take that many? I feel like he could have wrapped things up by now instead of constantly adding new characters to pad out the story more. Like the Darkstar stuff. What on earth
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2019 17:35
|
|
|
Yeah, should have been clearer. Oh man, also remember when the show implied Rhaegar hosed Elia over and annulled their marriage, which would destroy her reputation, turn their children into bastards and generally really piss the Dornish if they found out? Luckily the Mountain raped and killed her before that
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2019 17:35
|
|
|
Guy A. Person posted:Well there was a an actual Aegon who was Rhaegar/Elia's kid but who reportedly got his skull smashed in by the Mountain, and "Young Griff" is supposed to be him (but you're right, he's totally not) IRC he is a Blackfyre, which is a cadet branch of the Targaryens. Everyone is extremely wary of the Blackfyres cause they plunged the realm into a huge succession war a long time ago. They are like the Westeros version of the Clintons, everyone hates the fuckers It's unclear if Varys is aware of Aegon's real heritage, but Varys in the book is actually smart and capable so he very likely is but he doesn't give a gently caress and just needs someone to sit the throne who isn't a huge piece of poo poo and controllable
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2019 17:35
|
|
|
Varys is like Littlefinger in that in the show they have to be way more open and talkative about their plans. It was pretty funny when Littlefinger did that to Cersei and she immediately had people pull swords on him
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2019 17:40
|
|
|
Hobo Clown posted:Did GRRM ever say why he committed himself to 7 books? Like there was a specific arc he had in mind that would take that many? I feel like he could have wrapped things up by now instead of constantly adding new characters to pad out the story more. IIRC it was initially supposed to be shorter and include a time skip, explaining why some of the main characters were so young.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2019 17:46
|
|
|
YaketySass posted:Young Griff is sort of the ultimate endpoint of that "power is other people's belief" monologue Varys had in the early season, it's not impossible he was planned at some point even though he's yet another bloat on the massive cast. There's also potential that Aegon is actually a Blackfyre kid fwiw but I do prefer the idea of him being just some orphan who looks like he has some valyrian in him
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2019 17:50
|
|
|
The Unnamed One posted:Yeah, should have been clearer. From what I remember, Elia was said to have not been in the best health overall, and I often wonder if she was 100% okay with Rhaegar's affair due to maybe not being able to bear any more children, or not wanting to risk it after Aegon. The Dornish are fairly liberal when it comes to lovers/etc and GRRM has said before that her relationship with Rhaegar was complex. For all we know she was aware of the prophecies he was obsessed w/ and wanted him to achieve them. Elia is a character I always wanted to know more about tbh
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2019 17:56
|
|
|
YaketySass posted:IIRC it was initially supposed to be shorter and include a time skip, explaining why some of the main characters were so young. Yeah, his original plan was to have three books, with the first one encompassing everything than led up to Storm of Swords.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2019 17:59
|
|
|
Arkhams Razor posted:Yeah, his original plan was to have three books, with the first one encompassing everything than led up to Storm of Swords. When the first three books weren't enough, iirc it was supposed to go to five books. Then he realized a timeskip would skip past too much to properly recap without having a million flashbacks, and Feast and Dance became two books because he couldn't fuckin finish it, and now we have the set goal of 7 absolute fucker
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2019 18:01
|
|
|
Well it's looking like we'll have five books after all. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2019 18:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 14:22 |
|
|
esperterra posted:From what I remember, Elia was said to have not been in the best health overall, and I often wonder if she was 100% okay with Rhaegar's affair due to maybe not being able to bear any more children, or not wanting to risk it after Aegon. The Dornish are fairly liberal when it comes to lovers/etc and GRRM has said before that her relationship with Rhaegar was complex. For all we know she was aware of the prophecies he was obsessed w/ and wanted him to achieve them. Oh sure, but she (and Dorne) probably would've taken issue with the annulment possibly deligitimizing Rhaenys and Aegon in favor of Jon - which might've even hosed up Rhaegar's own plans, since by what we've seen of him in the books, he figured his children would save the day ("His is the Song of Ice and Fire", "The dragon has three heads" and all of that). But  that poo poo doesn't exist in the series, so gently caress them kids.
The Unnamed One fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Apr 25, 2019 |
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2019 18:14
|
|