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pentyne posted:I actually did not believe you so I checked. The show does this quite a bit and it makes re-watching earlier episodes sometimes even more confusing when I recognize a recycled actor. Sopranos is my all time favorite TV show and I'm digging reading these write ups and going down memory lane. This, The Wire and Breaking Bad are sort my holy triumvirat. I think I've done 3 solid end to end watches of it and dozens of individual episodes when it ran on A&E a lot. It opens itself really well to re-watches due to how much it skips around between story lines, how many subtle things there are and how often it refers to characters and their relationships that I can't always remember. UNtil I re-watched it in full for the first time, I had forgotten that Johnny Sack went back as far as he did. I love the moral ambiguity, hypocrisy, flaws, denial and motivation that almost every character demonstrates. You find yourself falling in love with and rooting for absolute monsters, sociopaths and idiots. I love all the dream sequence stuff and find that even the "worst" episodes are still better than 95% of poo poo I can watch no matter how long my Netflix queue gets. The writing, acting and direction are top notch and never take you out of the show. My only real gripe EVER with it was introducing Steve Buscemi's character out of loving nowhere in one of the later seasons. It was asking me to feel attached and sentimental about someone that Tony supposedly was SUPE CLOSE to and shared all this history with but I'm gently caress all if it didn't feel forced. I like Buscemi a LOT and thought he did great on the show but none of that character intro felt earned to me at all and just reeked of "And Special Guest Star...!" to me. It's been beaten to death but the ending to me is quite clear and Tony got whacked. Re-watching the last season only confirmed it for me; down to Bobby's premonition about never hearing it and everything going black, the subtle callback to "Member's Only", the "communion" with the onion rings and everything else. But what really sold me on it was the rather obvious callback to the planted gun in the men's room from The Godfather. There's also a really good long essay some dude wrote on it that I can't seem to locate that breaks it all down even if sometimes it's reaching. It's amazing to re-watch the last 5 minutes of the final episode, knowing what happens (or doesn't happen), and really appreciate how much loving tension Chase built out of parallel parking, a jukebox, a door chime, some close up cuts and just loving with audience for knowing we were counting down. Amazing TV and I hope this thread keeps going. ... Funny Sopranos story apropos of nothing and my apologies for over sharing: About 10 years ago I had a Sopranos related sex dream and was scratching my head about WTF it meant. It wasn't Adriana, Gloria, Julianna, grown up Meadow or even Melfi or Carmella. I had a god damned weird sex dream about Janice. Why, yes, I am in therapy. Why do you ask?
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Apr 25, 2019 23:51
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BiggerBoat posted:I had a god damned weird sex dream about Janice. was she pimping you out? where you mommys little tramp? Mommys little whooah?
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Apr 26, 2019 00:07
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BiggerBoat posted:I had a god damned weird sex dream about Janice. How long had you been in the can for? 
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Apr 26, 2019 00:12
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banned from Starbucks posted:was she pimping you out? where you mommys little tramp? Mommys little whooah? LOL She blew me in the bathroom. Pretty basic stuff. I wasn't out of the can but I was unemployed. Maybe some projection there? Hey, I'm not proud of it I just thought it was funny. Of all the Sopranos women, even in my dreams I got stuck with the bottom of the barrel. BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 00:40 on Apr 26, 2019 |
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Apr 26, 2019 00:36
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crispix posted:How long had you been in the can for? And how long was she in the can, too? 
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Apr 26, 2019 03:02
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BiggerBoat posted:Funny Sopranos story apropos of nothing and my apologies for over sharing: About 10 years ago I had a Sopranos related sex dream and was scratching my head about WTF it meant. It wasn't Adriana, Gloria, Julianna, grown up Meadow or even Melfi or Carmella. I had a god damned weird sex dream about Janice. Her hair though. Pre-Raphaelite they call it.
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Apr 26, 2019 03:16
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Dawgstar posted:Her hair though. Pre-Raphaelite they call it. I like when Johnny describes Ginny as Ruebenesque. As for Janice... any girl that lets you hold a gun to her head while having sex is definitely a keeper.
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Apr 26, 2019 03:54
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ruddiger posted:As for Janice... any girl that lets you hold a gun to her head while having sex is definitely a keeper. Bobby: You Sopranos always take things too far! The fact Janice and Bobby end up together always blows me away. He's like the world's nicest guy (who is also a terrifying mob enforcer)
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Apr 26, 2019 04:21
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Tbf The show does kinda poke at Buscemi showing up, like with Bobby Jr. going "How come I've never heard of you"? Or Tony eventually realizing he doesn't actually like his cousin, he just felt guilty for years.
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Apr 26, 2019 07:17
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Jerusalem posted:Bobby: You Sopranos always take things too far! When you watch those first episodes after Bobby's wife dies, Janice just 100% manipulates him right from the start. There's no foundation there of like, a real relationship, the whole thing was built on Janice's manipulations.
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Apr 26, 2019 15:35
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Basebf555 posted:When you watch those first episodes after Bobby's wife dies, Janice just 100% manipulates him right from the start. There's no foundation there of like, a real relationship, the whole thing was built on Janice's manipulations. Yeah, she thought she deserved somebody better than Richie and whomever else she's dated in the past and felt she earned it. Even used stolen food to do it.
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Apr 26, 2019 15:40
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I’m a little disappointed we never met Harpo. Just an episode or two of seeing her as a terrible mother to some doofus would be hilarious.
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Apr 26, 2019 15:49
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Dawgstar posted:Yeah, she thought she deserved somebody better than Richie and whomever else she's dated in the past and felt she earned it. Even used stolen food to do it. lol I fully expected her to just dump the chicken whatever that the other woman brought over for Bobby in the garbage, but then she just takes it right over to Junior's house and gives him the cooking instructions as if she made it herself. Edit: which also reminds me of how Junior immediately called out "Janice's" lasagna as Carmella's because of the sweet sausage "in the little pieces" with the basil leaves under the cheese. God this show is hilarious. Basebf555 fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Apr 26, 2019 |
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Apr 26, 2019 15:50
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Mahoning posted:I’m a little disappointed we never met Harpo. Just an episode or two of seeing her as a terrible mother to some doofus would be hilarious. Easily disproven fan theory: Harpo is the guy Bobby whacks in Montreal
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Apr 26, 2019 16:10
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Season 2, Episode 6 - The Happy WandererJunior Soprano posted:Some people are so behind in the race that they actually believe they're leading Tony and Carmela attend a College Night at Verbum Dei - Meadow and AJ's school - where a representative of Brown University is playing up the small student body, and thus the tight selection process that they'll have ahead of them if they wish to apply. Meadow is sitting beside Eric Scatino, whose own parents are in attendance, and Eric's father excuses himself to use the bathroom, where by "chance" he runs into Tony Soprano at the urinal. David "Davey" Scatino is played by Robert Patrick, which means before he says a word it is clear this is going to be a significant character. Though it had been close to a decade since he starred in his biggest ever role as the bad guy in Terminator 2, Patrick was still a very recognizable face. As he joins Tony to take a piss, they quickly establish that Davey runs his own sports good store, that he likes to bet, and that he and Tony have known each other for years. Tony is interested in talking about which of the colleges sounds good for their kids (he likes Bowdoin, where he saw the quote from Nathaniel Hawthorne) but Davey wants to make "casual" chat about tonight's game. They're sidetracked by the arrival of Artie, who is delighted to see them both and cracks jokes, it seems they were all friends back in High School. Artie is providing the catering for the evening, which Tony quite correctly guesses is a smart play by Charmaine to get the College reps to think favorably of Chiara when it is her turn to apply for College. Outside, they're quick to grab up some of Artie's food for themselves, joined by Meadow and Eric. The latter asks Davey for money and Tony takes great pleasure in teasing both Eric and Meadow by pointing out of course the kids want money, they wouldn't be coming over to show appreciation for their parents' presence. Eric and Meadow - who are tight but don't seem to be dating - are gonna skip out from Artie's delicious food to go to Starbucks. Eric is considering Brown but Davey laughs that just like he himself, Eric is gonna go and do whatever Mrs. Scatino says. Artie commiserates, it's the same deal with Charmaine, and Tony - who never grew up - laughs about how cool Artie and David used to be back in school, look at them now! Shortly after, Davey gets Tony aside in one of the empty halls where he brings up the real reason he sought him out. He's heard "through the grapevine" that Tony is now going to be running THE EXECUTIVE GAME, a high stakes poker game, and since he plays "a little" he thought it would be "a kick" to sit in. Tony, about as gently (and to be fair, mildly condescendingly) as possible punctures that idea: he likes Davey, but THE EXECUTIVE GAME is not for him. Davey bristles a little bit at this, but when Tony says they should move on to hear what the rep from Yorktown has to say he bites his tongue and follows in Tony's wake.   In therapy, Tony and Melfi struggle to reestablish the norms of a professional relationship, not helped by Tony telling her that he'd like to smash her head in with a brick. After an awkward pause he tries his best to explain that this is his attempt to quantify his actual emotional/mental state, and becomes increasingly frustrated as she keeps bringing it back around to the very specific description of his fantasized violence against her. This is hard for both of them, Melfi crossed a line or five regarding her professional and ethical behavior with him and now it is coloring their every interaction. Tony's initial sexual infatuation with her was within the boundaries to be expected with a patient who feels starved for love (maternal and otherwise) from females. But he had a crooked cop tail her, he stole her car to fix it, he threatened to strangle her to death, she got too invested in the vicarious thrill of his criminal lifestyle to the point it actively harmed her psychiatric counseling of him. Now that genie has to go back in the bottle, and the only thing that is making it work is that they're both so desperate to make it work: Tony knows he can't go to anybody else, and Melfi has already established that she's addicted to exposure to him. Tony laments that women, including her, can't ever leave something alone. She asked how he felt, he told her, now she's torturing him. But in the process he admits freely that he's filled with rage and has no idea what the cause of it is. Of course a great deal of rage is due to his own self-loathing, something he seems to be skirting close to understanding as he tries to figure out what is wrong with him if he not only can't be happy when he has the world by the balls, but is actively miserable. He dismisses the idea that his mother is the one who makes him feel like a loser, insisting it's a generalized sense coming from everything and everybody. He sees somebody happy, walking down the street whistling and cheerful and full of life like "the Happy-loving-Wanderer" he just wants to rip his throat out. Why does he feel like that? Why can't he be happy for the guy? Why does he want to pummel this guy to death because THEY are happy and he isn't? Melfi again pushes his initial reference to her, insisting when Tony becomes exasperated, and he finally verbalizes the reason for his anger towards her. He blames her for making him feel like a victim, referencing his first session with her when he lamented the loss of the Gary Cooper type, and furious that he himself has now become one of those whining, complaining pussies that he held in such contempt. He rejects her claim that his parents ruined his ability to feel joy, and insults her other patients as useless douchebags, people he does not identify with even if he also doesn't identify with "the happy wanderer" type either. Melfi is offended herself by this, but progress has been made in this session. She got him to talk about his feelings, she got him to be open, and more importantly in spite of his cavalier attitude towards some of her statements and her own open emotional state she reestablished some level of the professional authority she once held. In a small bar, Artie has joined a small poker game where with great joy he is raking in the pot after a winning hand. Also present is David Scatino, Vito Spatafore (played by the same actor who played Gino in the season 1 episode where Christopher shot a clerk in the foot) and Richie Aprile among others. Artie throws a chip the dealer's way (he is played by Tony Sirico's real life brother) but then excuses himself, citing Charmaine as the reason, she'll be mad if he stays out. He's mocked for that, of course, but uncool Artie the lame rear end in a top hat whose wife tells him what to do is walking away clean from a poker game with known mobsters, more money in his pocket than he walked in with. Good for him. Less sensible is Davey, who asks Richie to spot him some extra cash so he can stay in the game. Richie points out there are only three players left but Davey doesn't care, neither does Vito, but like a good member of Richie's crew he also suggests they up the ante. Richie points out that Davey already owes him $7000 which he waves off with a laugh, he can make that back from Vito in an hour! Davey's son Eric meanwhile is practicing a duet with Meadow for their next high school performance, a cabaret night. Next up is Gudren, a younger student who is getting a solo performance, which has upset Meadow who wanted to do a solo for her last Cabaret Night. The teacher, Mrs Gaetano, points out that Meadow has had plenty of solos before, this is Gudren's first chance, but Meadow explains that while her previous solos were great, she really wants to be able to put down that she was a solo performer on her extra curricular activities for her college applications. That's what everything is coming down to for the High School Seniors, everything they do relates in some way to their attempts to get into their college of choice. At yet another of his many "doctor's" appointments, Junior meets with Tony where they discuss THE EXECUTIVE GAME. Davey's "grapevine" was correct, Tony is taking it over from Uncle Junior, who doesn't particularly appreciate being asked if he is okay with that since he knows Tony's decision is already made. Tony smirks after telling him he could continue to run it if he wanted, Junior grumpy since he can hardly run a high-stakes illegal poker game when he's under house arrest. Tony reminds him that as this is the case, he should be happy with the cut of the game he'll still be getting. Junior takes a stroll down memory lane as Tony uncomfortably checks his own weight on a scale and realizes he's put on a few more pounds than expected. Junior and Johnny Boy got the idea 30 years ago when discusses credit card companies. The trick isn't to make a big score straight away, but to juice people for a little bit at a time while collecting interest, and best of all for your marks to be grateful to you for doing it. Hence THE EXECUTIVE GAME, where players with deep pockets come and pay for the privelage of being at the table, and continually feed more money into a pot where the bulk of the cash will inevitably end up in the hands of the House through sheer attrition/extra buy-ins. They'll play until they can't go anymore, going without sleep as long as they can, and when they're done they won't be able to wait until the next time they get the chance to throw more money at it. Junior beams at the memory of his brother's foresight, but Tony - in a bad mood after stepping on that scale - points out that when he died he left the family with nothing. Junior scoffs at that idea, claiming Johnny Boy left Livia with a package that could choke an elephant, confusing Tony who knows there was certainly no money for Livia after his father died. Seeing the look on Tony's face, Junior asks if he really has to tell Tony what Livia is like,"A woman with a Virginia ham under her arm, crying the blues because she has no bread." No, Johnny Boy looked after his wife and can't be blamed if she kept the money secret from the rest of the family. Besides, he footed the bill for freighting Uncle Ercole's body too, which cost a tremendous amount. That line confuses Tony anew, but this time Junior zips up, clearly uncomfortable and wanting to move on. Finally he admits the truth, a dark family secret never uttered to any of the kids before this: Between Junior and Johnny Boy was another Soprano brother, Ercole Soprano, who was mentally challenged ("Slow", Junior insists) and had to go and live in a Charity Home. Junior is fiercely protective of the memory, and that of his own mother who in spite of speaking no English and have no money made a point of traveling the state to find a home that could properly care for her middle son. Things were different then, they didn't know how to look after a kid like that, but he was strong as a bull and George Raft handsome. Junior's clear love for this other brother Tony never knew existed is evident, and Tony himself is in a daze at this. He recalls an argument between his parents and Livia referencing Johnny Boy's "feeble-minded brother", which he'd always assumed was a dig at Junior (Junior's reaction to this is great). They stand in uncomfortable silence for a moment, and Junior explains Ercole died a little before Johnny Boy himself, then - clearly upset himself at the memory - insists they return to the present. What will his cut of THE EXECUTIVE GAME be? Tony, still dazed, offers 10% and Junior immediately insists 20. Tony, in a fog, mumbles 15 as a compromise and Junior is quick to snatch it up. His love for Ercole is genuine, but he is not above using this moment to get more than he could have reasonably hoped for from Tony otherwise.   At Ramsay's Sports and Outdoor retail store, Eric who also works there attempts to assist potential customer Richie Aprile, who jokes around with him that he's in every week and surely Eric knows he isn't here to buy anything by now. Davey, confident and apparently calm, strides by and leads Richie to the tills where he hands him a envelope: part of what he owes from the recent poker game. Richie is clearly in a good mood, joking about with Davey as he accepts the envelope, thinking this is a straightforward transaction where both sides are full aware of what is required. Except Davey doesn't, because Davey: Cool, confident, calm Davey, explains breezily that oh by the way he's a couple hundred short on his payment this week. No big deal you know, just things were a little tighter than he thought this week. It's just a stutter step, no biggie, but Richie has flipped a switch already and there is no turning it back. His face now that blank dead-eyed stare he offered Beansie, he reminds him of the conditions of his "loan". The difference gets tacked on to the principal, which means the vig is now calculated from a higher base than before. Davey assures him he understands, but with that same shark-like calmness Richie also lays out that he is no longer welcome at any of Richie's poker games until he's caught up on his payments. This does break through Davey's cool demeanor, is that really necessary. Richie, who is actually being far kinder than you might normally expect in a situation like this, actually lays out with simple clarity the truth of the matter: a light envelope is just the start of a gambler's problems, and he won't consider it anything other than that until Davey is caught up. There is nothing personal in it, but Richie isn't in this business to make friends. Christopher, dressed up nice, is flanked by Matthew Bevilaqua and Sean Gismonte as they pick up fish for THE EXECUTIVE GAME. Christopher, sack of poo poo that he is, slips a matchbook into the scale when the clerk is turned around and then demands he honor the payment shown, accusing him of trying to cheat the scales himself with a weighted finger. The poor rear end in a top hat has no choice but to ring up the payment, Christopher calmly slipping the matchbook out while his back is turned, all the while explaining Matt and Sean's responsibilities for the duration of the game. They are essentially maids, they will be there for as long as the game goes (often up to 48 hours straight) providing food and drink, cleaning up after people, and when the game ends they will be responsible for scrubbing the place down. They're not particularly happy to be hearing this, especially his warning abut not engaging in conversation with Silvio who gets MEAN when he's gambling, but in all honesty this is a major show of support from Christopher. Not that he'd ever verbalize this himself, but he's putting them in a room with bigtime players, and while they'll be doing bitchwork they'll also be demonstrating that they're reliable and hardworking. Christopher has clearly had their role himself in the past, and sees in them the potential to follow him up the chain. That they don't get this should be among many warning signs of things to come. Furio arrives at the Flyaway Motel, owned by Shlomo Teittleman who hosed up bigtime by hiring Tony to get rid of his son-in-law in season 1. Furio explains to the son, Hillel, that they want a room with a working refrigerator and stove supplied to them, with the adjacent rooms emptied out. Hillel, who warned his father against dealing with them, points out that these are supposed to be for paying customers, disgusted that "you people" have ruined this motel. He's got a point, the lobby is full of what are obviously hookers, joined by men who are probably paying for their rooms by the hour. But if they're insisting he do all this, including providing fresh towels and having the rooms cleaned, shouldn't he at least be paid for this? Furio, nobody's fool, calls over a hooker just coming down the stairs and asks if she has ever sucked Hillel's dick. "I make that beanie spin when I work his thing" she replies, and leaves. Furio casts a meaningful look the shamefaced Hillel's way and warns him not to bitch to him about anything again. Other preparations for THE EXECUTIVE GAME continue, as Paulie is pulled over by a cop and asked for his license and registration. Paulie nods and then pulls a gun on the cop, who calmly tells him he is wearing a vest, so Paulie declares he will shoot his "braciola", pointing the gun at his crotch. The cop laughs, calling Paulie a sick gently caress, then explains - after mistaking Paulie asking after his family as genuine interest - the rules for leaving THE EXECUTIVE GAME alone. He accepts a large roll of cash from Paulie and assures him so long as nobody fucks with tourists or other hotel guests, the noise is kept low and there are no gunshots then the cops will not be a presence.   THE EXECUTIVE GAME begins, players gathered around for a quiet start in a spotless room with the curtains pulled tight: the players don't need to know if it is night or day, just that there is a game to play. Tony calls over Matt, getting his name wrong (Christopher corrects him without correcting him, making it seem like Matt simply didn't hear him) and Matt rushes over and grabs a couple of Macanudos, giving one to Tony and lighting the other for Doctor Fried. The players are Fried, Silvio, Paulie, Johnny Sack and Frank Sinatra Jr (yes, the real Frank Sinatra Jr) and they break each other's balls as they get to know the table. Tony takes Sean, who has been washing dishes, aside and quietly instructs him to set up tv trays of entrees to slip between each player so they have food, and reminds him not to give anybody alcohol unless they specifically ask for it (contrast to Richie's game, where they were trying to keep Artie's glass full so he and the other players were constantly drinking). The idea is clear, to emulate a Casino situation where there is no concept of day or night, where food is constantly provided, where drinks are available but you're not made to feel they are being pushed on you. The difference being it's in a cheap little motel in New Jersey not far from an airport. But they're also free of the restrictions of Casinos, they can bet as much as they want for as long as they want: here is pure gambling, they can play for as long as they want. It is THE EXECUTIVE GAME, and everybody involved feels special for being there. Christopher answers a knock at the door, Davey Scatino is there looking for Tony. Christopher is cold, does he know this guy? Davey is curt right back, yeah he knows him, and Christopher goes to check with Tony as Davey peeks past the edge of the door and gapes to see Frank Sinatra Jr there. Tony joins him out in the corridor, surprised but pleased to see him, saying he heard he was there so decided to stop by. He offers small talk about their kids and their college potential that is weirdly out of place in this situation, not that Tony notices... yet. But he can only keep that up for so long before the real reason he came here like a moth to a flame is revealed. He asks about the game, what are they playing (7 Card Stud), is that really Frank Sinatra Jr, can he buy in etc? Tony, face falling as he grasps what is going on here, tries to steer him away both conversationally and physically, attempting to lead him down the corridor and outside. But Davey insists, this is a chance of a lifetime for him, how could he walk away? He once again plays on their shared history, the jokey friend, but he can't veer away for long from what is his obsession: he must get into that game. Tony tries a different tack, asking what cash he actually has on him, and Davey has to admit he doesn't have anything on him RIGHT NOW but... and Tony once again tries to physically steer him away, explaining you need 5 G's just to sit in. Davey immediately leaps onto that, well surely Tony could float him that cash, short-term? Tony casts all pretence aside now and just lays it out for him: if he borrows that money "short-term" he better mean short-term, because he knows what will happen if he can't pay it back immediately? Davey, who was getting desperate, is all cool relaxed guy again as he assures him he doesn't need to explain business to a guy like him, and Tony acquiesces at last. Just like that, Davey is one of those guys who is thrilled to pay for the privilege of getting juiced. Tony brings him into the room and tells Christopher to give him "five boxes of ziti" before wishing him good luck. With that, Davey is in the game, and Christopher introduces the "new blood" to the other players, who all turn like sharks to look at the injured seal that just flopped its way into their path.  An undetermined amount of time later, it seems Paulie has busted out as he snores on the couch till Tony passes by and prods him awake. Davey chats with Frank Sinatra Jr (on a first name basis now) about how sports store does well but the Nike and NBA stores have cut into his profits. With the ever eternal optimism of a gambling addict, he assures them all he has a plan to make changes that will turn everything around though. Paulie takes great pleasure in bringing up that Doctor Fried specializes in erectile dysfunction, while Fried - utterly unflappable - just comments that there's not a joke they can think of that he hasn't heard before. The dealer provides running commentary for his own amusement as he dishes out the cards, irritating Silvio whose chip stack is looking decidedly anaemic by comparison to others, particularly Davey who is doing well. Tony, perhaps purely for the fun of it all, notices crumbs forming around the table and signals to Matt to come over, whispering to him to sweep it up, ESPECIALLY under Silvio. He sits back and waits for the fireworks. Silvio meanwhile is trying to figure out whether to check, eying up Davey and trying to figure out what he's got besides luck. Johnny Sack cracks a joke and the dealer quietly reminds him it isn't currently his bet, and a pleased Fried tosses him a chip as a reward for controlling the table. That in turn increases Silvio's irritation, which is exactly the moment that Matt slips the broom under his feet. Silvio explodes, demanding to know why he's playing Hazel, and Bevilaqua makes the mistake of trying to explain what he was doing. "WHY NOW!?!" demands Silvio, becoming increasingly unable to articulate his thoughts as he lets off steam, finally just bursting out in an incredible display. Silvio posted:Leave the cheese there! All right? I love loving cheese at my feet! I stick motherfucking provolone in my socks at night so they smell like your sister's crotch in the morning! All right? So leave the loving cocksucking cheese where it is! Following this, he literally tosses the cheese off the ground to the floor and demands a bewildered Matt leave it where it is, and best of all finishes off with a quiet,"Have a good time!" before returning to his seat to continue pondering his bet. Tony can barely contain his laughter, while Silvio finally calls on Davey's bet. Paulie cracks a joke about dropping a crate of Viagra into the ocean to raise the Titanic that even Dr. Fried appreciates, and the last cards in the hand are dealt out to everybody. Davey makes a $1200 bet and Silvio, thinking he's got a read on him, calls it only to become concerned when Dr. Fried raises it and Davey immediately calls as well. Committed himself, he calls and is quietly satisfied that his three kings beat Fried's three 2s... until Davey reveals he had the flush. Silvio can't believe it, but Tony quietly comes to Davey's defense, he can play out a hand anyway he wants to. Silvio mutters he should have stuck with his goomar, and then noticing his plate is empty because he dumped all the food on the floor, instructs "cheese gently caress" to bring him something to eat. Night turns to day and the game goes on, with Meadow leaving the Soprano house in a bad mood to be picked up by Eric in his SUV. It seems a friend called Rachel got an early acceptance into Wesleyan, which Eric - rich white kid - notes is down to her mother being black. "Please, I'm blacker than her mother" complains Meadow, in a reminder that their parents aren't the only douchebag assholes in the family. Tony is nudged awake by Christopher, the game still going in the background but apparently slowing down. Judging it the right time, Tony has him head back to check with the dealer if they want to close the lights. Sean, in a rare act of understanding his role perfectly, quietly brings Tony a coffee and leaves. Frank Jr asks for a little sambuca to be added to his, obviously feeling a little rundown after a full night of gambling. Davey isn't familiar with "closing the lights" and doesn't appear in the best mood, his chip stack no longer what it was the previous night. He grunts to ask if that is a game, making Silvio - whose good mood appears to have recovered along with his chip stack - laugh and declare him a real pisser. Frank Jr explains it is a way to leave the game with dignity, to admit you've been beaten and walk away now with whatever money you still have. Davey doesn't consider it for a second though, he wants to continue. Tony quiet confers with Christopher, how much does Davey owe? He's shocked to hear it is "45 boxes of ziti", or in other words $45,000. It seems that during the night he straight up lied to Christopher and told him Tony had already okayed another 10k loan to keep him in the game. Before Tony can really react there is a knock at the door, and Christopher answers to find Richie Aprile has come to get a look at the legendary game for himself. He is delighted to see the survivors at the table, even happier to see Johnny Sack resting on the couch who simply smiles sleepily up at him as he pats his cheek in greeting. Richie is in a great mood, this is exactly the type of thing he remembered the mob being like before he went away, this is Old School. Until he turns around and sees David Scatino who has been pointedly trying to avoid being seen. Tony emerges from the bathroom and jokes that Davey got in the same way as Richie, through the front door, then turns to check out the table spread and calls out obliviously to the players to ask if they want anything to eat, none the wiser that Richie is staring a hole through Davey and approaching him with menace, the other players no longer fixated on the game but whatever is about to happen. Christopher steps in to take Richie aside when he quietly threatens to stab Davey in the eye, and Richie jerks away, warning him not to touch him. This isn't Satriale's and a legitimate beef about domestic violence though, this is THE EXECUTIVE GAME and Christopher is supposed to be keeping everything running smoothly, so he doesn't back down an inch, warning him not to threaten him. Richie tells him all he needs is a reason to take out his rage on Christopher, then turns and grabs Davey by the throat, only to be hauled away by Tony. Dr. Fried, Frank Jr and the dealer are up on their feet looking on in horror, this is NOT part of the game they signed up for. To his credit, Richie seems to realize he's overstepped and stands anxiously but peacefully in place as Tony tells Christopher to get everybody a drink, but Frank Jr knows when the getting is good, and decides to cash out. Tony tries to convince him to stay, but Frank Jr insists, promising to settle up with him at the next game and asking him to pass on his regards to Junior. Dr. Fried also takes the chance to step out, noting he has tickets for a boxing match tonight and should get some sleep. Frank, showing some class, tosses a couple chips to Matt as a thanks for his good work, telling him to make sure Sean gets the other. Matt is extremely grateful (it's Frank Sinatra's son!) but seemingly unaware of just what a disaster this is for Tony. Outside, Richie is immediately back to raging as he vents about Davey disrespecting him by coming to a game like this after he banned him from playing till he got back on track with his payments. But Tony doesn't give a poo poo about that, none of that gave him a right to disrespect HIS game. He is shocked though to discover that Davey owes 8k to Richie, realizing he made a mistake in floating the buy-in for him. But that is also not the point, the moment he did, he made Davey one of his players, which means he isn't going to send out Davey to take a beating from Richie. When Richie complains that he isn't the only one sick of Tony's holier-than-thou act, Tony seems almost delighted at the unspoken challenge, telling him that they can come right at him if they think they can topple him. That at least is something he can understand and deal with, as well as a way to take out his rage. Richie backs off quickly though, and leaves after realizing Tony isn't going to back down over Richie, though he makes a point of spitting in disgust as he goes.   Tony returns upstairs where the game is over, all the outside players having left aside from Davey who is freshening up in the bathroom. Affecting non-concern, he quips that Richie seemed pissed, but Tony is in a different mode now. Davey became one of HIS players, which also means he is now one of Tony's debtors. So calmly but firmly, he informs Davey he is going to let him go home and get a day's sleep, then he's going to get up and bring Tony his $45,000. Davey shrugs that off as no problem and tries to chat normally, commenting on Silvio's "luck", but Tony isn't interested in small-talk now. Still trying to maintain his calm/pretend everything is fine, Davey comments that he could use a schvitz and asks Tony if he wants to join him. Tony, trying very hard to control his own temper, takes a moment and then lays out the same thing that Richie already did: if he doesn't pay back what he owes, then somebody will come down to his store every Saturday for 5% interest, and if he doesn't pay that it gets tacked on to the principal. The enormity finally really settling in, Davey moans that he had a good run there for awhile, then in the understatement of the century mumbles that maybe he should have quit then. Falling back on old tricks, he tries to turn the conversation back to college applications, asking how Meadow did at Bowdoin, playing off their shared interests and Davey's status as a family friend. A disbelieving Tony asks him to repeat himself and then finally answers by asking if he would like anything else. Davey, perplexed, asks if he did something to insult him. It's either incredible insincerity or an utter inability to grasp the seriousness of his situation, both traits that problem gamblers have in spades, but in either case he has two days to bring him the 45k he owes. With Davey gone, Tony rejoins Christopher, Silvio and Paulie at the game table. Paulie is still making a count, but he figures after all their expenses are taken into account, they've made at least an $80,000 profit. In one night. For a game that happens on a semi-regular basis. Silvio points out at least a couple of those came out of his pocket. But he's not angry, all of them are in a great mood and with good reason. Even with the abrupt ending they've made out well, and they toast and drink in the exhausting exhilaration of realizing that they now run THE EXECUTIVE GAME. Tony reminisces how he and Silvio used to peek in on the game through a crack in the door at the game until Junior would notice and chase them down the street. Now it's theirs, or to put it more accurately, it's Tony's, yet another reason why he should be feeling on top of the world. Meadow and Eric practise their duet at the Soprano house that afternoon, which would be fine except Tony has been "working" all night and is currently trying to sleep. He hammers on Meadow's door and demands they keep the noise down, before noticing Eric and putting on a more polite face, either out of concern for how he looks or even just residue guilt for what he knows about his father. Meadow points out he's up now so they should be able to continue, but as he leaves she suddenly remembers a message: Aunt Barbara called, Tom's dad died. Tony is shocked, her husband Tom? Tom Senior died? Meadow has no details, nothing beyond the message, and Tony is shocked again, she didn't ask? Did she offer commiseration? Why is she acting like this means nothing to her? He was at the house every Christmas Ever with Barbara, Tom and their kids. Meadow gives a maddeningly blank reaction, horrifying Tony who leaves the room with a quiet,"Jesus" at his daughter's attitude. In therapy, Tony passes on the extra details he finally got from Barbara to Dr. Melfi. Tom Senior was a guy who did everything right his entire life. He raised a family, he worked a legitimate job, he retired at age 65 having done everything society said he should. Then ONE day after his retirement, at the start of what was supposed to be his reward years, a gust of wind blew him off a ladder while adjusting a satellite dish and that was it, he's dead. Tony, who has faced his own mortality more than once, is obviously fixated on this. He mistakes Carlos Castenada for a prizefighter and can't fathom why anybody would take advice from any boxer other than maybe Ali. She cracks a pretty off comment about how Tom Senior isn't a Happy Wanderer anymore so Tony doesn't have to worry about pummelling his rear end, utterly confusing Tony who apparently doesn't particularly recall what he complained about in his last session. They sit in uncomfortable silence, both trying to figure out what the other is thinking, and then Tony mentions what he learned about his Uncle Ercole. Melfi, who apparently is either still upset about him wanting to smash her face in or just wants to push him to explore his feelings of unfocused rage, takes a more aggressive bent and asks if having a disabled Uncle he never knew about now makes it permissible for him to join the rest of the "douchebags" who attend therapy with her? He remembers saying that at least, and seems to feel it is deserved that she call him out on it.   At Tom Senior's wake, Barbara is in a daze standing by the coffin along with Carmela, who assures her that they'll be there for her. Tony sits with a bored Meadow and AJ, offering a supportive pat to Tom Senior's widow. But another crying older woman grabs everybody's attention, and everybody but Tony turns towards her demonstrative sobbing. It's a sound that is seared into his soul, and he has to take the moment to brace himself. Because Richie and Janice have wheeled Livia Soprano into the same room as her son for the first time in season 2. Carmela quietly whispers to him that this was bound to happen eventually, all he can do is relax and wait so they can go their separate ways. He squeezes his eyes shut to try and block out the sound of her loud wailing, while Janice has enough sense to keep them towards the back of the room for now at least. Tony seethes, hissing that she's acting like Bette Davis back there and Carmela again warns him to control himself. He gets to his feet, insisting they're leaving (AJ flat out, in earshot of the widow, grunts a thank you to God) but Carmela hauls him back and refuses to let him go, reminding him that this isn't their day, they're here to pay respect to Tom's father. Richie approaches first, ironically probably the person Tony will be least angry to see, and asks who they should give their "boost" too, a bit of money to help out with expenses at a time of grief. That at least gives Tony something to do, a structure he understands unlike his mother who remains a mystery to him. They approach Tom and pass him envelopes of cash, a process he seems to understand or at least tolerate despite not being part of their life. Tony and Richie step out into another room, Tony lighting a cigar which Richie points out isn't allowed. Tony gestures to the sole other occupant of the room, a corpse laid out in a coffin, and comments that he is unlikely to complain. Richie quietly laughs at that, then with surprising timidity apologizes for blowing up at his game. Tony considers this and asks what he is supposed to do about Richie? Again, with surprising restraint, Richie agrees that it's Tony's ball so he makes the rules, a comment that actually riles Tony up further. Because it isn't his rules, it's THE rules, rules that have always been in place, and acting like Tony is overstepping himself by enforcing them is pissing him off. So following those same rules that have always existed, David Scatino is now safe from Richie... until he finishes paying off his debt to Tony. Richie is outraged, but that is the tax Tony is applying to him for raising his hands at the game: he'll still get paid what he's owed, but because he lost his cool he has to wait while Tony bleeds out David first. Richie sighs but doesn't put up a fight, all episode and especially here he's seemed subdued and quick to fall into line, and Tony at least seems satisfied he's been able to vent a little of his frustration out on him and regain a measure of sense of control. Except the moment he steps back out to here the Priest speaking and takes his seat, he realizes that in the interim Livia has been wheeled to the front and that she is now sitting directly facing him. He tries to keep his eyes front but can't help but look, staring at the woman who was supposed to love him without restriction and instead tried to murder him. Seemingly helpless, a little old lady in a wheelchair, all that sense of control flees from him and he just turns and stares miserably forward. Carmela took can't help but shifting her look, Livia's fact that of a sorrowful mother who cannot understand why she has been abandoned... except that for just a moment there is the barest flicker of a smirk that crosses her lips. She is drinking this all in, she is the center of attention again and knows they are powerless in the face of social decorum to do anything.   She sleeps in the backseat of the car as Richie drives her and Janice home. Janice makes sure she is sleeping (she is, sated by the experience) before she takes on the role of Livia herself to Richie's Junior. She isn't happy that he (her man now) is taking Tony's poo poo, a subject he doesn't want to discuss. So she doesn't, she simply sits quietly, saying nothing, and the lack of response forces him to try and explain himself. Here at last we see the reason for Richie's (strained) deference to Tony: he appreciates him for doing the right thing. Despite his warning that what was his wasn't Tony's to give him, he is currently back on the street making money, running small time poker games, loan sharking, collecting interest, fully back into the life again. And he credits that to Tony, who outside of all the other boosts Richie was given at his return party, gave him $50,000 and the clearance to get back out earning again. After 10 years in prison, Richie feels like himself again, and as much as Tony might irritate him or how much he can't get past seeing him as a chubby kid, he feels grateful to Tony for doing it. Janice has another take. $50,000, that's certainly an old school mentality, because when she was a little girl she remembers Romeo Martin getting out of jail, and her father gave HIM $50,000. $50,000. In 1970. Roughly the equivalent of $500,000 in 2000 (actually $220,000, but still a significant amount). So Tony, whose "job" it is to give money to guys out of prison to get back on the street, gave him $50,000? Wow. Mailmen make more than that. Now it is Richie who can only sit quietly, letting that all sink in. Two days have passed and Tony arrives at Davey's store, where he marches straight into the back room and directly into Davey's office. Looming over Davey, shot from a low angle, he's pure menace as he demands to know how Davey could have had a doctor's appointment when his "friend" showed up to pick up the money he owes. "Do you think I'm still the kid on the school bus?" demands Tony, betraying yet again his own self-doubt over how he is perceived by others in spite of his status. Not loving about, Tony demands to know what money he does have. Davey has nothing, so Tony demands he stands up, warning him he'll rip his head off if he doesn't. Davey finally stands, with that same maddening "what'd I do?" face as he promises he isn't trying to rip him off, after all their kids go to school toget-and Tony slaps him across the face, not letting him pull this old bullshit again. Now David lets the mask slip, begging him please not to hurt him, telling him how sorry he is, insisting it's just a run of bad luck. Tony slaps him again, HARD, and Davey wails that his luck is going to change. Which is what it all boils down to, he has no plan, no strategy, no idea how to get the money outside of believing in his heart of heart like all gambling addicts that his luck will change. Tony quietly tells him he'll be back tomorrow and there better be money waiting for him, then walks away, leaving his old high school buddy sobbing miserably in his office. Also just like all addicts spiraling out of control, Davey's now passes his way down a list of friends to try and get the money from them. First Richie, then Tony, now Artie. Being Artie, he immediately think sthat he's banged up one of the female employees of his store. Davey explains he's in debt and needs money, swearing on his kid he'll pay it back before he can even miss it, "only" 20k! Affecting great regret, Artie explains that the restaurant needs a new roof and what little cash they have is going towards that. He still doesn't grasp what is going on, thinking he owes cash to the bank, maybe he could declare Chapter 11 Bankruptcy. He is shocked when he learns that the money is owed to Tony Soprano, and all he can offer now is,"Oh, jeez, Davey. Jesus Christ." That about sums it up. Davey returns home to his lovely two story house, big garage and three cars, trying to figure out where the gently caress he is going to get 45k from, let alone the vig, let alone Richie's 8k. One of those cars is Eric's, and when he spots mud on the door a light goes off on his head. In a rage he storms into the house and demands the keys, insisting that he warned him there was to be no off-roading but he can see mud all over the tires. Eric is stunned, Mrs. Scatino baffled, but the desperate Davey climbs into the SUV and drives away in spite of Eric and his wife's protests, declaring in a beautiful moment of pure irony that accountability is everything! From one dad-of-the-year to the next, Tony joins a radiant Carmela in giving Meadow a surprise gift: an SUV! She's thrilled, until she hops in and immediately recognizes it is Eric Scatino's car. Carmela's face falls at this, while Tony mumbles that yeah it was, but it's hers now! She's wary, probably because she heard the story from Eric of what happened to him, so she asks if David sold it to him. Tony, idiot that he is, says it was "something like that" and Meadow immediately puts two and two together and races out of the car in disgust. "Jesus, Tony" sighs Carmela. That about sums it up too. Meadow lays in her room, miserable, as outside she hears Tony roaring as he storms up the stairs and into her room. Meadow tries to get mad at him but he completely overwhelms her in his fury, once again finding a target to direct his unfathomable rage towards. He rubs her nose in the fact that every privilege she enjoys comes from the "work" he does that she so frequently mocks or taunts him about. Stomping out, he leaves her in tear, and Carmela can only stand and look at Meadow, at a loss of what to say.   But in spite of this blow-up, come Cabaret Night Tony, Carmela and AJ are right up in the second row waiting for her duet with Eric. Carmela turns her head and notices that Janice has also come... and brought Livia with her. Tony understands immediately by her reaction and asks her where they are, and she explains they a few rows back. Richie arrives with a comically large bouquet that dwarfs Tony's own, and Tony cracks a joke about seeing them at the wake. He directs Richie back to where Janice is, and can't help but turn his head and once again stare at his mother, who this time at least seems not to really notice him. Looking back means he also spots a subdued looking David and his wife. Backstage, Eric is storming out, wanting no part of the duet after learning that Tony has his car. Meadow, desperate, insists that there's nothing she can do to stop Tony from selling it, and Eric - who has always been so polite towards Tony in their encounters - hisses that he is a loving rear end in a top hat. Meadow immediately leaps to his defense in spite of her own rage towards Tony, pointing out that David is far from innocent and besides, he GAVE the car to Tony, he didn't steal it. Eric has no time for her wounded family pride though, coupled with his privileged upbringing this setback has him throwing a tantrum as he tells her gently caress you, gently caress your gangster father and gently caress THIS before rushing out the door. Of course the show must go on, and there is no sign of the backstage drama in the auditorium itself, where the audience is welcomed over the intercom and the standard jokes about recordings/lozenge wrappers/coffee are made. One slight amendment is announced, unfortunately Eric Scatino will not be available for the planned duet with Meadow Soprano. As a result, Meadow will now be performing a solo rendition of My Heart Will Go On from the hit movie, Titanic! David and his wife rush out of the auditorium, visibly confused, where is Eric? "That's a lucky break! I wonder what happened" notes Carmela as the lights go down and Gudren begins her solo performance of Gretchen am Spinnrade. Tony sits and listens, the Happy Wanderer mixing in with the performance as the end credits roll. David Scatino's perfect life has been pummelled into hamburger, Meadow Soprano has gotten everything she wanted thanks to her father's "work", his mother and sister are now somebody else's problem to deal with, and he runs THE EXECUTIVE GAME.  This is not the face of a happy man. Season 2: Guy Walks into a Psychiatrist's Office... | Do Not Resuscitate | Toodle-loving-Oo | Commendatori | Big Girls Don't Cry | The Happy Wanderer | D-Girl | Full Leather Jacket | From Where to Eternity | Bust Out | House Arrest | The Knight in White Satin Armor | Funhouse Season 1 | Season 2 | Season 3 | Season 4 | Season 5 | Season 6.1 | Season 6.2 Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 13:36 on Apr 23, 2020 |
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Apr 26, 2019 16:31
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Frank Jr. was a fun guest appearance, especially considering his father's own 'connections.' It's also neat seeing who showed up in the game in later seasons, and I'm glad they never let guest stars get too out of control. (Would love the story of how Junior met David Lee Roth.) One other thing that stands out is Matt and Sean in comparison to Chris. While I'm sure he whined about it as much as they do, he actually did all the scut work he was told to do. Like how he wants to be in Hollywood, they want to be in organized crime. Players without really doing much at all for it.
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Apr 26, 2019 17:20
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Meadow becoming at least a semi-decent person is one of the few positive outcomes of the show. She really had the deck stacked against her and came out with at least a semblance of a conscience.
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Apr 26, 2019 18:57
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Midgetskydiver posted:Meadow becoming at least a semi-decent person is one of the few positive outcomes of the show. She really had the deck stacked against her and came out with at least a semblance of a conscience. Yeah, I agree, although she really did lean a little to hard into the "prejudice against Italian-Americans!" thing. Like I'll give you a pass with that if you're family is actually legit, or even if you think your family's legit. But she knew who her dad was and what he did and she still bought into that bullshit.
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Apr 26, 2019 19:24
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John Carter Hensley's acting in that episode was hilarious - it even stood out like a sore thumb to me the first time I saw it. The actor was visibly self-conscious about having to sing and oh my that little angry mince out of the room  Also I swear at this point in the show you can almost see Gandolfini getting fatter between episodes.
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Apr 26, 2019 19:52
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Midgetskydiver posted:Meadow becoming at least a semi-decent person is one of the few positive outcomes of the show. She really had the deck stacked against her and came out with at least a semblance of a conscience. See, I always read her progression toward the end of the series as a sign that she was just Carmella with a work ethic. Yeah, she was going to law school and all that, but she says she wants to defend people like her father who are getting harassed by law enforcement. Feels like she's on her way to staying connected with her father's world rather than going on to be a champion for the truly downtrodden.
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Apr 26, 2019 19:58
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crispix posted:Also I swear at this point in the show you can almost see Gandolfini getting fatter between episodes. Every scene where they’re eating is with real (delicious) food. Edie Falco chewed gum Guess who actually ate the food on each take- but I’d put that down to him being a magnificent method actor- the best way to look like you’re eating is to... eat! 
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Apr 26, 2019 20:43
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He already looked like a guy who enjoyed his food. I wonder if any alcohol was consumed during his drunk scenes. I don't think I have seen an actor act drunk better than Gandolfini. The whole spectrum from slightly mellowed out with a beer in front of the TV drunk to completely off his tits, crashing around the house, dancing the Camel Walk at his bewildered wife before passing out on the floor drunk and everything in between. He was amazing 
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Apr 26, 2019 20:56
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Midgetskydiver posted:Meadow becoming at least a semi-decent person is one of the few positive outcomes of the show. She really had the deck stacked against her and came out with at least a semblance of a conscience. She's marrying a mobster's son and it's heavily telegraphed that she'll become a mob lawyer. She's sucked in just like everyone else. crispix posted:He already looked like a guy who enjoyed his food. I wonder if any alcohol was consumed during his drunk scenes. I don't think I have seen an actor act drunk better than Gandolfini. The whole spectrum from slightly mellowed out with a beer in front of the TV drunk to completely off his tits, crashing around the house, dancing the Camel Walk at his bewildered wife before passing out on the floor drunk and everything in between. He was amazing There's an interview where they talk about him and Imperioli getting so drunk they had to hook them to nearby trees for stability, otherwise the director was afraid they were going to fall down a mountain
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Apr 26, 2019 21:14
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crazy eyes mustafa posted:Every scene where they’re eating is with real (delicious) food. Edie Falco chewed gum I can't pretend if you put down a plate of bake ziti in it I wouldn't dig into it, Pavlovian-like.
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Apr 26, 2019 21:27
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crispix posted:He already looked like a guy who enjoyed his food. I wonder if any alcohol was consumed during his drunk scenes. I don't think I have seen an actor act drunk better than Gandolfini. The whole spectrum from slightly mellowed out with a beer in front of the TV drunk to completely off his tits, crashing around the house, dancing the Camel Walk at his bewildered wife before passing out on the floor drunk and everything in between. He was amazing Reminder that anyone who hasn't needs to check out Killing Them Softly for some top-tier Gandolfini drunk scenes.
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Apr 26, 2019 21:29
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It's a credit to Robert Patrick that he can play a character as menacing as the T-1000 and still pivot from that to play Davey Scatino so well. He's just such a pathetic character in the Sopranos but it's hard to have a lot of sympathy for him given he gambles away his family's future. And yet Tony knows full well what he is doing by allowing Davey to play in the Executive game. He knows the potential consequences, but he can't help himself. He's a predator, and Davey despite being his childhood friend is prey. Tony tries to talk Davey out of getting involved but he doesn't put too much effort into it because ultimately he knows Davey is a potential gold mine. He feels enough guilt to not just immediately say ok when Davey asks to play in the game but not enough to actually stop him from destroying his own life.
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Apr 27, 2019 00:01
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The fact that no one is safe from him with the exception of his immediate family is one of the most frightening things about his character. I can't think of any of his "family" that he didn't consider killing at some point. Maaaaaybe SIlvio, but I think there was a moment in the Tony B saga where he threatened him.
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Apr 27, 2019 00:45
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Solice Kirsk posted:The fact that no one is safe from him with the exception of his immediate family is one of the most frightening things about his character. I can't think of any of his "family" that he didn't consider killing at some point. Maaaaaybe SIlvio, but I think there was a moment in the Tony B saga where he threatened him. Didn't Silvio undermine Tony at some point too? I remember Tony telling Sil to back off of some caper in some ep, and after talking to T, he told his guys to pull off the job anyway.
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Apr 27, 2019 00:55
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ruddiger posted:Didn't Silvio undermine Tony at some point too? I remember Tony telling Sil to back off of some caper in some ep, and after talking to T, he told his guys to pull off the job anyway. Yeah it involved stealing poo poo from the esplanade construction site. Tony told everyone to knock it off and Silvio gave Patsy Parisi the go-ahead to steal tiles or fiber optics or some poo poo.
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Apr 27, 2019 01:02
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Basebf555 posted:When you watch those first episodes after Bobby's wife dies, Janice just 100% manipulates him right from the start. There's no foundation there of like, a real relationship, the whole thing was built on Janice's manipulations. Lyvia's if you want to trace it back to its roots. Mahoning posted:Yeah, I agree, although she really did lean a little to hard into the "prejudice against Italian-Americans!" thing. Like I'll give you a pass with that if you're family is actually legit, or even if you think your family's legit. But she knew who her dad was and what he did and she still bought into that bullshit. That's the thing though. ALL of the characters rationalize their perspectives and their unique brands of self delusion and bullshit. Even Melfi and the "professionals". They're ALL flawed and at different times and in different episodes you'll find yourself either rooting for someone, completely repulsed or rolling your eyes and frustrated with their lack of self reflection. For instance, the season one episode with the soccer coach has you rooting for a bunch of thieves, murderers, hit men, drug dealers and extortionists against a sex offender where the mobsters are heroic. I think that's why the show resonates so well because, in that respect, it's a lot like real life and all of our personal relationships, with ourselves and our friends and families. We're all hosed up, hypocritical, sympathetic, narcissistic, selfish, loving, angry, impulsive, caring, insightful, stupid, empathetic, oblivious, horny, faithful, wise, cunning, violent, scared, elated and depressed to varying degrees every day and in every given hour. The show doesn't shove it down your throat and just masterfully shows you this over time through great writing, direction, pacing and incredible acting, with each character's motivation made clear. In that way, I think it's what makes it so relatable and is a large part of why so many people latch onto it. At some point, almost every character does something you either love or loathe. Except RIchie. gently caress that guy.
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Apr 27, 2019 01:07
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Mahoning posted:Yeah it involved stealing poo poo from the esplanade construction site. Tony told everyone to knock it off and Silvio gave Patsy Parisi the go-ahead to steal tiles or fiber optics or some poo poo. It comes off like he did it because he was pissed that Tony put Christopher in charge of Paulie’s crew instead of Sil. Maybe he was trying to get Chrissy in trouble? It’s kind of an odd out-of-character plot line for Sil, who is usually not much of a poo poo-stirrer.
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Apr 27, 2019 01:38
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Besides Artie, I think Sil is the closest thing to a friend Tony has.
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Apr 27, 2019 01:46
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One of the things that tends to get overlooked in the finale is that Sil ends up in a coma and there's no reason to believe he ever comes out of it. There's a good chance he's dead and even if Tony survives, he's lost probably his last remaining confidante and capable associate.
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Apr 27, 2019 02:02
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crazy eyes mustafa posted:Every scene where they’re eating is with real (delicious) food. Edie Falco chewed gum I think David Chase has actually said he feels guilty for pushing Gandolfini to eat as much as he did, because he wanted him to be fatter as the series went on and worries it might have contributed to his early death  Ginette Reno posted:It's a credit to Robert Patrick that he can play a character as menacing as the T-1000 and still pivot from that to play Davey Scatino so well. He's just such a pathetic character in the Sopranos but it's hard to have a lot of sympathy for him given he gambles away his family's future. Yeah, going from a terrifying unstoppable force to a complete sadsack piece of poo poo loser is a pretty big 180 but he absolutely nails it. Ginette Reno posted:And yet Tony knows full well what he is doing by allowing Davey to play in the Executive game. He knows the potential consequences, but he can't help himself. He's a predator, and Davey despite being his childhood friend is prey. Tony tries to talk Davey out of getting involved but he doesn't put too much effort into it because ultimately he knows Davey is a potential gold mine. He feels enough guilt to not just immediately say ok when Davey asks to play in the game but not enough to actually stop him from destroying his own life. I like when Artie fucks up his attempted investment plan and gets his rear end beat/tries to commit suicide, Tony shows up and offers to basically take care of everything for him and gets infuriated when Artie proclaims (with great admiration) that Tony saw all this coming and planned accordingly, but later on actually admits (to Melfi I think) that this is certainly something he is capable of and he can't deny that maybe subconsciously he was doing what Artie said.
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Apr 27, 2019 03:52
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Jerusalem posted:I like when Artie fucks up his attempted investment plan and gets his rear end beat/tries to commit suicide, Tony shows up and offers to basically take care of everything for him and gets infuriated when Artie proclaims (with great admiration) that Tony saw all this coming and planned accordingly, but later on actually admits (to Melfi I think) that this is certainly something he is capable of and he can't deny that maybe subconsciously he was doing what Artie said. Yeah that's a good point. It's almost second nature for Tony to take advantage of others. It's second nature for everyone in that type of life really. You pointed it out in your recap with Junior: quote:They stand in uncomfortable silence for a moment, and Junior explains Ercole died a little before Johnny Boy himself, then - clearly upset himself at the memory - insists they return to the present. What will his cut of THE EXECUTIVE GAME be? Tony, still dazed, offers 10% and Junior immediately insists 20. Tony, in a fog, mumbles 15 as a compromise and Junior is quick to snatch it up. His love for Ercole is genuine, but he is not above using this moment to get more than he could have reasonably hoped for from Tony otherwise. Here Junior is giving Tony some important family history and it's a moment of trust that way between Tony and Junior. It's a humanizing moment between family. And yet even in that kind of moment Junior can't help but try and exploit it to make more money off of Tony. The avarice of all the mobsters on the show is second nature. It's instinct. That doesn't excuse it, but it does color every action they take, because often times even when they're doing or saying something good there's always that predatory instinct lurking beneath what they do.
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Apr 27, 2019 04:00
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My favorite detail is that if Davy hadn't been there the vaunted Executive Game would've made maybe 35k in profit. Doesnt sound like such a massive win when you look at it that way. Sure its a lot of money for 2 days but even 5-10k of that was Sil playing to keep the game going.
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Apr 27, 2019 20:18
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I have no idea how these things work but I always assumed the money that Davey owed Tony doesn't count towards the profits of the game. I mean the other players don't sing like the type that need to borrow money to play. I figured the profit was skimming the ante from every hand or something like that.
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Apr 27, 2019 21:59
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Rake You can see it here where the dealer takes some chips and tosses them into a coffee can banned from Starbucks fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Apr 27, 2019 |
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Apr 27, 2019 23:03
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Midgetskydiver posted:I have no idea how these things work but I always assumed the money that Davey owed Tony doesn't count towards the profits of the game. I mean the other players don't sing like the type that need to borrow money to play. It's a play in or a house fee. Whoever runs the game gets a percentage of all the action, period, regardless of who wins or loses. So, like, if you walk in with 5 grand, whoever is hosting the game gets 5% or whatever it is. It's sometimes up front but usually settled when you cash out and almost always tied to your level of action . From there you play with your own roll or, if you're losing and if you're a degenerate gambler like Davey, you start borrowing from the house and that's when the "vig" or "the juice" kicks in and you start spiraling because you can never win your way out of it. Assuming Davey is already in the hole for 10 grand to Tony, if he wins 5k, it SHOULD go straight to who he owes it to. Any money Davey might have won SHOULD automatically go to Tony, but, assuming Davey DOES pay it all, it's still really only $4000 or w/e because of the interest plus whatever the house takes. And gamblers never pay it all off. They keep letting it ride and borrowing more. So, along with "the rake" you've also got the "vig". Mobsters just keep lending these dudes enough money to hang themselves and keep them coming back until they bust them out and then, when the guy is bled dry, they come after his assets. See: Davey's sporting goods store and his kid's college fund. Even if a player is "breaking even", if he's borrowing, whoever is lending it to him is making money for doing nothing at all beyond staking him. It's sort of what banks do, TBH, where they just collect money for providing money. or raising you credit limit. whoa. that was longer than I intended it to be. TL/DR: Whoever sets up/hosts the game collects a fee/percentage for their trouble. BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Apr 27, 2019 |
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Apr 27, 2019 23:32
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So what’s the appeal for guys like Sinatra Jr or David Lee Roth? They can afford to get into a high-stakes game at a fancy casino, why play in a lovely motel with violent criminals?
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Apr 27, 2019 23:50
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