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Sanitary Naptime posted:Forkboy, borders are bad I agree. Don’t think that an agreement between lots of borders to pretend they don’t exist (but only for good white Europeans) is worth the price of adding another one to the map. Looking forward to seeing the insides of immigration detention non-correctional facility then, the way things are going. There's enough EU citizens locked in them for rough sleeping (including at protests because LMAO of course) as it is. I don't agree with borders being closed for non-EU immigrants either, but I think there's something to be said about the fact that the UK manages to be one of the strictest countries in the EU towards visa-based immigrants, too. And I don't see how loving over even more people in an act that effectively follows in the grand tradition of immigration acts is going to help with that. If anything immigration 'enforcement' has gotten even stricter since the Brexit vote. Instead a good way to start would be scrapping income requirements for spousal visas (which are skirting EU rules anyway, the only reason the government gets away with it is Cameron's 'renegotiation' couple years back) and the ludicrous visa fees for skilled immigrants. e: Oh and the UK is welcome to open up borders to commonwealth citizens if it wants, there would certainly be protests by other EU governments but it would not be illegal. And being in the EU would let them freely live there too, as a bonus. e2: Really the much more productive Lexit argument is to criticize brain drain, exploitation of foreign workers to drive down wages, neoliberalism of the EU, laws limiting nationalisation in the EU, agricultural subsidies hitting farmers outside the developed world, EU's treatment of refugees (with the caveat that they are treated badly just about everywhere in the world these days, excepting islamic solidarity anyway), etc. Private Speech fucked around with this message at 11:13 on Apr 27, 2019 |
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Apr 27, 2019 10:50
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The general attitudes to Britain towards immigration are shite, largely down to the way the media treats the issue. Once some effective press regulation comes in, it’ll be a lot easier to start changing that attitude. In the same way that a political party can’t run on “full communism now” and achieve success, you can’t run on “open borders now” and expect to win an election. Not yet. It takes time, and as usual those minded towards independence don’t want to wait, but also don’t have an idea of how to achieve what they want (or even if what they want can happen because lol if you think only socialists want independence, or are even the majority of people who do). Lexit is rightly seen as too difficult and a stupid idea, but splitting the union is seen as a piece of piss and great because ???
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Apr 27, 2019 11:17
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Because it means not lying in a bed some other fucker keeps making GBS threads.
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Apr 27, 2019 11:18
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Any Leeds goons going to Albion place?
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Apr 27, 2019 11:22
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Marxist-Jezzinist posted:Any Leeds goons going to Albion place? What's happening there?
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Apr 27, 2019 11:27
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Oh good, they're collecting scalps from Carer's Allowance claimants, just in case I needed something else to be anxious about.
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Apr 27, 2019 11:27
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TomViolence posted:Because it means not lying in a bed some other fucker keeps making GBS threads. Othering isn’t exactly a socialist tenet, is it?
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Apr 27, 2019 11:28
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Undead Hippo posted:What's happening there? Yellow vests are coming so momentum and leeds afn have organised a counter march
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Apr 27, 2019 11:28
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I dunno if it's actually a march but people are gathering there
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Apr 27, 2019 11:29
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Have fun smashing the fash
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Apr 27, 2019 11:32
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New video: ideas vengaboys vs fascists.
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Apr 27, 2019 11:35
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Sanitary Naptime posted:Othering isn’t exactly a socialist tenet, is it? neither is the dumb idea that regional differences don't exist, or that the british state is the only viable political unit capable of encompassing the peoples of the british isles. in fact, i would argue the british state is in its death throes and should just be put out of its misery before its post-imperial dementia further humiliates it. used to be we'd all stand inside this red, white and blue tent and piss outward but these days we've only ourselves and each other to piss on and so, so many folk are drowning as a result. i don't buy any of the exceptionalist myths about scotland innately being better equipped to make a go of things, but at least we'd no longer be subject to the capricious whims of whatever anglochauvinist project of national revival is next around the corner.
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Apr 27, 2019 11:35
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TomViolence posted:neither is the dumb idea that regional differences don't exist, or that the british state is the only viable political unit capable of encompassing the peoples of the british isles. in fact, i would argue the british state is in its death throes and should just be put out of its misery before its post-imperial dementia further humiliates it. used to be we'd all stand inside this red, white and blue tent and piss outward but these days we've only ourselves and each other to piss on and so, so many folk are drowning as a result. i don't buy any of the exceptionalist myths about scotland innately being better equipped to make a go of things, but at least we'd no longer be subject to the capricious whims of whatever anglochauvinist project of national revival is next around the corner. Regional differences are easily addressed when you’ve got socialism surely, the whole point is a redistribution of wealth to where it needs to go. I just don’t see how “glad the union is dead” somehow helps to improve a shitehole like Paisley or Ayrshire, it just migrates the problem to different rich cunts filling the same roles except they all live in Edinburgh instead. If socialism is possible in the UK with more certainty than in an independent Scotland then why isn’t that the goal first and foremost for those who say they’re on the left within the SNP? I genuinely can’t understand the amount of stick (not here specifically, just in general) I take for being a socialist who supports the union while always having lived in Scotland. The union isn’t even my end goal, I’d rather we moved towards something more federal within a larger socialist group of nations, with the hope that we could finally gently caress the idea of the nation state into the bin of history where it belongs.
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Apr 27, 2019 11:52
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If the brexit timeline is anything to go by, independence barely winning a referendum and then the negotiations being so terrible at every level that Britain just falls into a federal state might be the best option.
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Apr 27, 2019 11:53
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While I like free movement I'm not a fan of the fact that it's used to keep people from being able to vote. If you live here you should be able to vote in elections.
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Apr 27, 2019 11:58
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OwlFancier posted:While I like free movement I'm not a fan of the fact that it's used to keep people from being able to vote. If you live here you should be able to vote in elections. You can generally speaking, just not the westminster ones. But yeah it does suck. Hence why Pochoclo was incensed about having to be on the electoral register a while ago.
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Apr 27, 2019 12:02
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I mean I think the westminster ones are the important ones. Really would much rather people just got citizenship. Hard to view the unwillingness to do that as anything but nativist bollocks tbh.
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Apr 27, 2019 12:04
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Sanitary Naptime posted:If socialism is possible in the UK with more certainty than in an independent Scotland then why isn’t that the goal first and foremost for those who say they’re on the left within the SNP? honestly can't help you there cos i take no truck with the SNP and as far as I'm concerned they've massively shown their arse wrt any left credentials. for what it's worth, the independence debate is just a toxic miasma hovering over politics in scotland that chokes out anybody that wants to even entertain talking about anything else. i'd probably vote yes in another referendum if we don't have a corbyn - or at least leftish labour - government by then, but god who even knows what'll happen between now and then
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Apr 27, 2019 12:04
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Sanitary Naptime posted:If the self identifying “Scottish Left” were really left they’d stop identifying by their nationality. I dunno where to start. 1) you and I may well be good internationalists but it's sticking your head in the sand to pretend there aren't bollockloads of examples of socialism being compatible with nationalism. From Cuba to China and 40s Labour to Nehru's India or Tito's Yugoslavia...poo poo, internationalist social democracy basically died in 1914 when the majorities of those parties across Europe sided with the war effort over the international working class movement. 2) it's also sticking your head in the sand about Scotland. I don't really want to go into it, it is complicated. But Scotland is different as much as it is also apart of the union and denying that is folly. 3) Not sure the answer to open borders is ending free movement within Europe to be honest. Yeah. I have reservations with the racist EU migration policies but it's not like the UK wasn't involved in making them happen.
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Apr 27, 2019 12:06
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TomViolence posted:the independence debate is just a toxic miasma hovering over politics in scotland that chokes out anybody that wants to even entertain talking about anything else.
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Apr 27, 2019 12:07
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This might be the strangest twitter exchange ever: https://twitter.com/jessphillips/status/1122094580072103937 https://twitter.com/jessphillips/status/1122095293154168832 https://twitter.com/jessphillips/status/1122096064994131969
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Apr 27, 2019 12:15
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Young Stalin was a hottie this is uncontroversial
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Apr 27, 2019 12:21
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Barry Foster posted:Twisto confirmed Stephen Fry, update the spreadsheet goddamnedtwistorysgreatestmonster
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Apr 27, 2019 12:23
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fidel, che and mao were all hotties in their day imo e: however - 
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Apr 27, 2019 12:23
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Communism is more of an orgy ideology.
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Apr 27, 2019 12:28
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more like cummunism.
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Apr 27, 2019 12:29
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I'm personally happy to admit that the prospect of staying in the EU would make Scottish independence more compelling if that was what was on the table. My issue was the "Scottish left's" seeming now almost unequivocal support of it via the SNP is: 1. The SNP are neoliberal centrists - they have policies that would sit happily in a Lib Dem or CUK (lol) manifesto and they don't aspire to do much more. Many of their policies have in fact sat in Lib Dem and centrist Labour manifestos of the past. 2. It's a major underpants gnome plan - 1. Independence 2. ? 3. Better outcomes for Scotland. 3. All the working economic scenarios are built on fossil fuel revenue which I don't consider morally justifiable given where we are. There is perhaps a moral, left wing political case for Scotland leaving the UK but I don't think supporters of independence in the "Scottish left" are asking nearly enough tough questions yet. Zalakwe fucked around with this message at 12:44 on Apr 27, 2019 |
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Apr 27, 2019 12:39
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TheRat posted:This might be the strangest twitter exchange ever: Was expecting Ash to post a young Corbyn picture, but having had a look young Corbyn just looks like a goonier version of old Corbyn.
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Apr 27, 2019 12:40
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CoolCab posted:speaking of my favourite party Yeah but Scotland already has a hostile foreign country controlling it's currency
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Apr 27, 2019 12:41
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Zalakwe posted:3. All the working economic scenarios are built on fossil fuel revenue which I don't consider morally justifiable given where we are. Also, really not guaranteed, politically, I don't think.
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Apr 27, 2019 12:41
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SpaceCommie posted:Was expecting Ash to post a young Corbyn picture, but having had a look young Corbyn just looks like a goonier version of old Corbyn. 
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Apr 27, 2019 12:43
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https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1122086387308691456?s=21
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Apr 27, 2019 12:44
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Haven't they just inverted the logo of that band black fleg?
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Apr 27, 2019 12:46
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JFairfax posted:Haven't they just inverted the logo of that band black fleg? That's why they have No Values
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Apr 27, 2019 12:53
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TheRat posted:This might be the strangest twitter exchange ever: Switch this for two male MPs phwoaring over women and both Twitter and this thread would collapse in outrage.
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Apr 27, 2019 12:57
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Bundy posted:Switch this for two male MPs phwoaring over women and both Twitter and this thread would collapse in outrage. This thread regularly 'phwoars' over Emily Thornberry though (and a few hatephwoar over Liz Kendall)
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Apr 27, 2019 12:59
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Dear CUKTIG IT Team, I keep tapping the menu icon on your website but it doesn't work
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Apr 27, 2019 13:00
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njsykora posted:Communism is more of an orgy ideology. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vf91dTrLkgA
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Apr 27, 2019 13:01
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Bundy posted:Switch this for two male MPs phwoaring over women and both Twitter and this thread would collapse in outrage. Well yeah but, like, the same reason it's not actually bad to call people hokny.
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Apr 27, 2019 13:05
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That is one of the ones I saw yeah. The beard was definitely a sound choice.
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Apr 27, 2019 13:06
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