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El Chingon
Oct 9, 2012

CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:

Argentine peso opens down 3.34 pct; hits record low vs dollar - traders


Hyperinflation, price controls, and protests against an unpopular and most likely corrupt regime. Surely the United States will be rushing in any minute now to anoint a charismatic opposition leader the real president of argentina.

In my experience, Argentina is the most "antiyankee" country in Latin America, so they would rather go through another economy/political cycle that they are so used to.

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Tony Sorete
Jun 19, 2011

Manager de rock

CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:

Argentine peso opens down 3.34 pct; hits record low vs dollar - traders


Hyperinflation, price controls, and protests against an unpopular and most likely corrupt regime. Surely the United States will be rushing in any minute now to anoint a charismatic opposition leader the real president of argentina.

It would be good that you informed yourself before leaping to lovely conclusions. Macri still has support from the USA, the IMF and the World Bank, which are the reasons why the crisis is worsening. And we're not near hyperinflation by at least two orders of magnitude: CPI is raising at an unbearable rate of 54% YoY by now.

There are supposed to be some utilities price increases frozen after a (very limited) relief program including 60 or so basic food products, frozen prepaid card rates for mobile phones and a few other lovely measures with limited impact. The reality is that, despite the overinflated foreign currency reserves in the Argentine Central Bank (fed by the IMF own loans and a currency swap agreement with the Bank of China), history tells you that, whenever a bank run happens, those reserves will evaporate.

And the leading opposition leader (yeah, Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner) is nowhere near a favorite of the American state, and the feeling is mutual. Pretty sure they'd rather see her getting Lula'ed, although it's proving hard... those trials where she's being prosecuted have proof obtained through shady-as-gently caress methods. Even if she's really guilty, the likelihood of a mistrial is very high.

CAPS LOCK BROKEN
Feb 1, 2006

by Fluffdaddy

Tony Sorete posted:

It would be good that you informed yourself before leaping to lovely conclusions. Macri still has support from the USA, the IMF and the World Bank, which are the reasons why the crisis is worsening. And we're not near hyperinflation by at least two orders of magnitude: CPI is raising at an unbearable rate of 54% YoY by now.

Sarcasm on my part, Argentina is going through all the throes of Venezuela without even US sanctions to add fuel to the fire and yet nobody in the American foreign policy apparatus or media has suggested overthrowing its government like their dysfunctional neighbor to the north.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong

CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:

Sarcasm on my part, Argentina is going through all the throes of Venezuela

What a shock, the defender of Muslim genocide is lying about Argentina too.

Ghost of Mussolini
Jun 26, 2011
Nothing but RESPECT for MY PRESIDENT, cande tinelli

qnqnx
Nov 14, 2010

CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:

Sarcasm on my part, Argentina is going through all the throes of Venezuela without even US sanctions to add fuel to the fire and yet nobody in the American foreign policy apparatus or media has suggested overthrowing its government like their dysfunctional neighbor to the north.

Please don't ever post again about South America, or at all about any topic, thanks.

Pochoclo
Feb 4, 2008

No...
Clapping Larry

CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:

Sarcasm on my part, Argentina is going through all the throes of Venezuela

Sorry but you are extremely misinformed. Even during the worst of 2001, Argentina did not get as bad as Venezuela, not even close

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

Pochoclo posted:

Sorry but you are extremely misinformed. Even during the worst of 2001, Argentina did not get as bad as Venezuela, not even close

It would be like saying that the U.S. recession was bad as the situation in Greece.

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.
Reading up on Bolivia, I keep seeing people mention how the country has multiple autonomous areas like Hong Kong or China's Special Economic Zones. However, it is difficult to find anything more about them. Anybody know anything about this?

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong

punk rebel ecks posted:

Reading up on Bolivia, I keep seeing people mention how the country has multiple autonomous areas like Hong Kong or China's Special Economic Zones. However, it is difficult to find anything more about them. Anybody know anything about this?

That's a deceptive description, it's more like the departments are becoming more like states are in Germany or Brazil or the US. Before the 2000s, Bolivia had operated as a centralized government with the region of departments have minimal authority in decision making and administration beyond what the national government said.

As Morales moved to take more of the fuels industry into government hands, many of the departments started to agitate for increased local control of that and other issues. Eventually the national and regional governments have agreed on a limited amount of federalism, tho it doesn't look like all departments have the same seperation from what one might call direct rule from the center.

There is also a level of representation of various indigenous groups that are in areas that can cross department borders, and also some regions within departments that have their own authority over collections of municipalities.

fishmech fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Apr 28, 2019

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

fishmech posted:

That's a deceptive description, it's more like the departments are becoming more like states are in Germany or Brazil or the US. Before the 2000s, Bolivia had operated as a centralized government with the region of departments have minimal authority in decision making and administration beyond what the national government said.

As Morales moved to take more of the fuels industry into government hands, many of the departments started to agitate for increased local control of that and other issues. Eventually the national and regional governments have agreed on a limited amount of federalism, tho it doesn't look like all departments have the same seperation from what one might call direct rule from the center.

There is also a level of representation of various indigenous groups that are in areas that can cross department borders, and also some regions within departments that have their own authority over collections of municipalities.

drat, you seem very knowledgeable about the country.

Goatse James Bond
Mar 28, 2010

If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

qnqnx posted:

Please don't ever post again about South America, or at all about any topic, thanks.

please have some compassion for the plight of the customs officials on the Argentina-Venezuela border

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.
drat, reading reddit and quora, the Bolivians on there REALLY don't like Morales.

punk rebel ecks fucked around with this message at 01:33 on Apr 29, 2019

hoiyes
May 17, 2007
Maybe your naive "just asking questions" schitck is wearing thin, but have you really not learned in 100+ pages that middle-class South Americans going loving rabid at the sight of any leader that throws the poor a bone is like SthAmPolitics.txt

nerdz
Oct 12, 2004


Complex, statistically improbable things are by their nature more difficult to explain than simple, statistically probable things.
Grimey Drawer
looks like things are ramping up in venezuela

Venezuela’s Guaidó says ‘final phase’ of plan to oust Maduro has begun

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/l...impression=true

Ghost of Mussolini
Jun 26, 2011
its the worst coup ever

Pochoclo
Feb 4, 2008

No...
Clapping Larry

Ghost of Mussolini posted:

its the worst coup ever

Shibawanko
Feb 13, 2013

The coup seems to be failing. Maybe trying to persuade people to take to the streets while having Bolso and the US openly backing you isn't the best way to go about it.

Ghost of Mussolini
Jun 26, 2011

At least we won the world cup :(

Plutonis
Mar 25, 2011

https://twitter.com/hansalexrazo/status/1124116000297967616

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.
Hell yeah.

Elias_Maluco
Aug 23, 2007
I need to sleep

Meanwhile Moro is praising the brazilian federal police on twitter for destroying another marijuana plantation

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




Which drugs? I really hope that changes things for them. Hopefully it'll inspire other countries to follow suit.

Squalid
Nov 4, 2008

100YrsofAttitude posted:

Which drugs? I really hope that changes things for them. Hopefully it'll inspire other countries to follow suit.

This announcement seems so vague that its still impossible to know how it will be translated into policy. Still cannabis business types are talking about a bill legalizing recreational sales getting passed before October, which would be pretty good. After cannabis I suspect opiates are the next most likely to get a relaxed and more treatment based approach to addiction.

Still as good as this shift sounds, I wouldn't hold my breath for it to dramatically reduce violence. Decriminalization isn't going to solve the problem of narcotrafficking for Mexico, not when the big money is in moving contraband north.

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.
I am to put it mildly troubled by the potential commercial capital involved here.

Squalid
Nov 4, 2008

Discendo Vox posted:

I am to put it mildly troubled by the potential commercial capital involved here.

yah but you're basically the Principal from Ferris Bueller's Day Off irl so that's not surprising

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Squalid posted:

yah but you're basically the Principal from Ferris Bueller's Day Off irl so that's not surprising

In tone absolutely, but if you think I've got Ben Stein's politics, well gently caress you very much buddy

edit: wait *googles* no do you mean the dean of students? That only kinda fits, he's way too energetic

edit 2: wait *reads further down article* gently caress don't compare me to that sicko jesus come on

Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 01:39 on May 4, 2019

Squalid
Nov 4, 2008

Discendo Vox posted:

In tone absolutely, but if you think I've got Ben Stein's politics, well gently caress you very much buddy

edit: wait *googles* no do you mean the dean of students? That only kinda fits, he's way too energetic

edit 2: wait *reads further down article* gently caress don't compare me to that sicko jesus come on

i dont know what a dean of students is but also ew no wonder Jeffry Jones' career died in the 2000s.

El Chingon
Oct 9, 2012
https://www.eluniversal.com.mx/columna/salvador-garcia-soto/nacion/el-kirchnerismo-en-mexico

The ruling party in Mexico invited Argentina's Kicillof to a series of conferences (private and public). I really don't like this since his reputation precedes him. When I was for a few months in Argentina last year, I saw the value of the peso drop by half and the economy was not doing so well (both Macri and Cristina are to be blamed I think).

But I wanted to ask the Argentinians here what to think of this visit? This was arranged by MORENA's far left group, which I feel they have been gaining some spots in the news lately.

Pochoclo
Feb 4, 2008

No...
Clapping Larry

El Chingon posted:

https://www.eluniversal.com.mx/columna/salvador-garcia-soto/nacion/el-kirchnerismo-en-mexico

The ruling party in Mexico invited Argentina's Kicillof to a series of conferences (private and public). I really don't like this since his reputation precedes him. When I was for a few months in Argentina last year, I saw the value of the peso drop by half and the economy was not doing so well (both Macri and Cristina are to be blamed I think).

But I wanted to ask the Argentinians here what to think of this visit? This was arranged by MORENA's far left group, which I feel they have been gaining some spots in the news lately.

Kicillof is a loving twat but I don't think anyone will care about him at this point, or even about Cristina. Macri has had enough time loving things up for people to start forgetting about their hate for Kirchner. My mother voted for Macri because she hated the "yegua" and ignored all of my arguments about neoliberalism being loving poo poo and much worse than anything the Peronist left could cook up. Now my mother hates Macri. And so the eternal argentinian cycle goes. I'd expect next elections to bring some kind of peronist leftist lite into power and we'll rinse and repeat except the high price of the soybean won't be there to help us this time around

Kirchnerist years were undeniably better than today's neoliberalist poo poo in Argentina though so if you have to pick between the two I'd go with the heavily interventionist but also super corrupt leftism. I guess that's as good as it can get in Latin America unless you're Uruguay

Pochoclo fucked around with this message at 12:05 on May 10, 2019

Ghost of Mussolini
Jun 26, 2011

Pochoclo posted:

Kicillof is a loving twat but I don't think anyone will care about him at this point, or even about Cristina. Macri has had enough time loving things up for people to start forgetting about their hate for Kirchner. My mother voted for Macri because she hated the "yegua" and ignored all of my arguments about neoliberalism being loving poo poo and much worse than anything the Peronist left could cook up. Now my mother hates Macri. And so the eternal argentinian cycle goes. I'd expect next elections to bring some kind of peronist leftist lite into power and we'll rinse and repeat except the high price of the soybean won't be there to help us this time around

Kirchnerist years were undeniably better than today's neoliberalist poo poo in Argentina though so if you have to pick between the two I'd go with the heavily interventionist but also super corrupt leftism. I guess that's as good as it can get in Latin America unless you're Uruguay
I think its a bit rash to say that Kirchnerism is obviously better than Macrismo. The K governments operated from a much better initial context and always counted with wider legislative and lower-order political support (particularly in terms of having receptive provincial legislatures and mayors). The K's ultimately mismanaged everything and demonstrated themselves to be expert bottlers. Saying that, Macri is not much better at all. I think if you reversed the situation, and put Macri in government first and the Kirchners second, we would be in an eerily similar situation.

Both administrations have shown themselves to be incapable of generating real institutional reform or of governing on anything but the shortest possible electorally-focused 2yr timetable. Both governments have shown themselves unable to do anything about corruption, and both governments have failed to secure actual investment in the economy (either by generating domestic conditions or attracting external funds). Neither government has reduced the conditions that generate systemic poverty, and social policy is limited to handouts. The same can be said about the energy sector, general infrastructure, the value of the peso, etc. etc.

(and yes the only saving grace of Kicilof is that he is the smartest of the camporistas, which is an absurdly low bar)

Badger of Basra
Jul 26, 2007

https://twitter.com/c5n/status/1129724283285118977?s=21

Uhhhh what?

Pochoclo
Feb 4, 2008

No...
Clapping Larry

Alberto al gobierno, Cristina al poder

Ghost of Mussolini
Jun 26, 2011
Six months ago Alberto was slamming Cristina and saying her second government was one of the worst. Now she's his vice-presidential partner.

Typical

Badger of Basra
Jul 26, 2007

Is this a situation where she chose not to run for President or did the PJ not let her? If the former I don’t understand why she did it at all. If her name is on the ticket in either position the whole campaign is going to be about her so why not go for it?

Pochoclo
Feb 4, 2008

No...
Clapping Larry

Ghost of Mussolini posted:

Six months ago Alberto was slamming Cristina and saying her second government was one of the worst. Now she's his vice-presidential partner.

Typical

peronistas.txt

Ghost of Mussolini
Jun 26, 2011

Badger of Basra posted:

Is this a situation where she chose not to run for President or did the PJ not let her? If the former I don’t understand why she did it at all. If her name is on the ticket in either position the whole campaign is going to be about her so why not go for it?

I can't believe that both Cristina and the PJ leadership believe that this is a 500iq move that will somehow make people think that she will be more moderate if she is vice-president.

I also can't really believe that anyone who would be opposed to voting for Cristina as president would be fine in voting for her as vice-president.

Peronists are infamous for "coming to the aid of the victor" however, and they are very susceptible to momentum, so this may have some effect in that when you bring Cristina's faction together with some of the more "moderate" faction (like Alberto), you start to sweep up mayors and provincial machinery at a good rate and get momentum within the PJ that way.

Pochoclo
Feb 4, 2008

No...
Clapping Larry
It's 100% a PJ/FPV political compromise thing - I highly doubt it's meant for the actual voting public because the voting public will be voting either for or against Cristina, this Alberto Fernandez guy is a total unknown for most people

I think my mom wants to vote for Massa which is lol but it's not like there's a clear better candidate, everyone sucks as usual

Pochoclo fucked around with this message at 18:16 on May 18, 2019

Cup Runneth Over
Aug 8, 2009

She said life's
Too short to worry
Life's too long to wait
It's too short
Not to love everybody
Life's too long to hate


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GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011

Alberto was criticizing Cristina last monday and Cristina herself called him much worse things in all these years. I'm a cynical jackass too but just this once I'm going to argue that this is a good thing.

Alberto has been a vocal critic of Cristina since the 125 and yet they're still personal friends. I don't think this is a cynical alliance of convenience, her book "Sincerely" was his idea after all. Is it a political move to consolidate power? Well, yeah... It's politics. When has anything in politics been for any other reason?

Like don't get me wrong, Peronism is still at best the lesser evil in this country's perpetual Peronist-Antiperonist cycle, but as far as alliances go this is a pretty good one and I wouldn't be surprised if they deradicalized the worst aspects of Kirchnerism and basically had an okay government for once. People say nobody knows Alberto like it is a bad thing, when it's actually a good thing, it means that he hasn't been making a buffoon of himself for his whole career which is how politicians get famous until they assume a sufficiently high position that you can't not know about them anymore. It is possible he'll be puppeteered by Cristina? Yeah, there's a nonzero chance of that happening, but I'm skeptical of somebody with this much experience being made into a de la Rua.

If nothing else it'll be funny to see Cristina bite her tongue at the senate when she calls for people to make their arguments without the ability to reply back at them.

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