DiHK posted:

Jakodee deserves one of those angry shakey avatars that's made up of a bunch of smiles scrolling endlessly

Reene posted:

Apropos of nothing else (because I really don't want to touch the rest of the discussion) the people complaining about it being "only" a sixer should keep in mind that sixers are the only mod action that immediately goes through without admin intervention, which I know isn't immediately apparent but some of you have been around long enough to know how the mod queue works.

jakodee posted:

Warning: Get ready for image links and a lot of words.

So.

Beer4TheBeerGod.

Back in the Fascism in Trad Games thread before you gave me a probation you said:


In response to:


Except when I clicked on the link to that thread, I didn’t find a place to discuss the problems people had with your moderation at all. I certainly didn’t find a thread in which you acknowledged any “fair concerns”.

I found this:


I found that a moderator had made a sarcastic shitpost in response to his upsetting people by rebuking them for calling out an open fascist defending fascism in the thread for calling out fascists. He subtitled this thread “The mods are bad,”. Interpret this as you will, but I cannot see it as anything other than more hostility.

This wasn’t a good look, so I decided to review that of your behavior I had found troubling before and after the creation of this thread. This is what I found:

https://imgur.com/UPBCNSN


Beer both didn’t consider a fascist posting fascist-apologia to be ‘more objectionable content”, and then he told posters to “ignore him so that his content doesn’t spread”; showing that he was well aware that the “content” of LordAba’s posts was objectionable to say the least, and then he accused people asking him why he wasn’t banning an open fascist in the thread of derailing the thread. The thread about how to spot fascists in gaming communities.

He also, rather than doing what BIG MEATY SHITS says here, insisted that anyone who had a problem with his moderation decisions, debate him via private message, and threatened to enact “harsher punishments” on anyone who continued to criticize him in the venue he was responsible for, which was full of people criticizing him.

In addition, in the first line of his three point list, he referenced the forum rules, not as an explanation for why he could NOT ban LordAba, but for why he was not OBLIGATED to ban LordAba. That he had the power to make a judgement call about baning a fascist sea lion, and chose not to.

https://imgur.com/tIALW35

https://imgur.com/BZm6ioq


Then, rather than taking criticism of his moderation in regards to the fascists that exist in a traditional gaming community that he moderates, in a thread about fascists that exist in traditional gaming communities, he insisted that all complaints be restricted to a place that I think we are all aware exists to kill off issues a moderator doesn’t want to deal with.

Beer has certainly not had problems moderating directly in these threads before, but now he insisted that such discussion be restricted to a locked off environment where Beer would have support from outside of the membership of the community he moderates, membership he knew would likely take his side regardless of whether he was right or wrong.

https://imgur.com/Qwt5bjj


He then admitted his suggestion would likely have been inadequate and stifled complaint instead of leading to constructive feedback. When I followed his request to go to the new thread, I found… well I found the sarcastic and dismissive original post from the beginning of this post.

https://imgur.com/aTRUV1v


I was starting to feel fairly hostile to Beer at this point, which was extremely unnecessary and rude of me, and told him that immediately admitting you had been trying to brush a moderation problem under the rug made it look like he was just looking for an excuse to close the thread.

He put me on probation for what was, I admit, an unnecessarily hostile post, although no more hostile than a great of what had been directed towards others than Beer, which had not resulted in any probations. He also doubled down on his authority as a moderator to demand posters move discussion elsewhere without any explanation of this decision to the numerous members of his community who were affected by it and arguing against it.

https://imgur.com/WzM7rWL



As you can see, this decision was immediately followed by more criticism and accusations of bad faith by the community he was moderating.

https://imgur.com/TpQVVbS


He then… attempted to make it clear that further attempts to criticize him or other members of the thread would result in the thread’s closure by his action? I think? This post was somewhat ambiguous, and I could have misinterpreted it.

Oh, and this.

If anyone is wondering if LordAba is really a fascist, and if Beer particularly cares about repeatedly posting fascist political ideas in the threads he moderates, here

https://imgur.com/JMwJzX4


is LordAba insisting that he knows, KNOWS all of his detractors are are arguing in bad faith, trying to “gently caress up the thread”, hate him, and want to misrepresent him. This was, of course, the first attempt he had made to defend his writing from its detractors in this thread, but he KNOWS no one would argue with him in good faith, so why should he bother defending himself.

LordAba spent most of this post defending his opinion that it’s not morally correct to consider it never acceptable to lock children up in cages, separating them from their caregivers and subjecting them to potentially lethal abuse, so long as their parents are violating racially motivated laws from the US that violate so many international laws human rights principles it's impossible to count them. He even says that he supported the continuation of sending children to these concentration camps so long as the law had not changed.

He supported changes in the laws of course. He even described current conditions as “not good” and “unfortunate”. But so long as the Law (of the US) remained on the books we are morally obligated to follow it, crimes against humanity and all.

Note that his very next sentence is him asking “Maybe if someone pointed out where I said I support sending children to literal concentration camps?”.

In response to Control Volume and my requests that LordAba be banned for both reiterating fascist political ideas and speaking about his personal political beliefs in the thread for calling out Fascists in Traditional games, the two things Beer said would result in thread closures or bans if they continued, Beer… put LordAba on probation for six hours.

https://imgur.com/PPygKyZ


Note both me and BIG MEATY poo poo reiterating our disbelief that Beer had not banned LordAba for the very behavior he had claimed would be required to ban him: repeated posting of obvious fascist talking points and derailing the thread with defences of a political belief.

Beer’s ultimate response to all this?

https://imgur.com/sUhpo9Z




I believe that the moderator Beer4TheBeerGod is likely either sympathetic to to fascism, or nepotistic enough to allow LordAba to continue to disseminate positively portrayed fascist material, concern troll attempts to identify fascists, and interrupt discussions of how to combat fascism in our communities because he has some other desire to protect or promote LordAba than his politics.

In either case I have become convinced that Beer4TheBeerGod is neither competent in his duties as a moderator nor willing to carry them out in order to create a safe, welcoming, and constructive community for discussion of traditional games.

I am now requesting that Beer4TheBeerGod either publicly resign from his duties as a moderator, publically direct me to the best means of communication with whomever is capable of reviewing if Beer4TheBeerGod is able and willing to execute his responsibilities as moderator and who has the power to, if necessary, remove him from that position.

I am publically requesting that all this be done in the open in the interest that it be widely known my actions regarding Beer4TheBeerGod, and to make my satisfaction known to the wider community.

I would not make this request unless I suspected that at least a portion of the community Beer4TheBeerGod moderates would agree with my conclusion of his inability to do so.

(Most of the material from the forum interactions is in the form of screenshots rather than quotations, so as to prevent the possibility of previous writings in these forums being changed or removed.)



I have chosen to post this in the “Fascists in Trad Gaming” thread because it is both obviously relevant to the thread and I (and everyone else I believe) have found ourselves mysteriously unable to post in the thread for criticizing Beer4TheBeerGod for reasons we have not been informed of. Imagine that.

tallkidwithglasses posted:

I thought this thread was kind of stupid when it was nerds advising other nerds to complain to management when the game store has a Nazi infestation but I changed my mind, it’s good now.

Ilor posted:

Oy. You know your thread has jumped the shark when this rear end in a top hat starts taking interest.

Reene posted:

Apropos of nothing else (because I really don't want to touch the rest of the discussion) the people complaining about it being "only" a sixer should keep in mind that sixers are the only mod action that immediately goes through without admin intervention, which I know isn't immediately apparent but some of you have been around long enough to know how the mod queue works.

BENGHAZI 2 posted:

Yeah who cares about that I just caught up on the thread and Mark me down in the "Beer sucks" column

A dude with a history of being fash "just asking questions" about what adjacent means is not here for discussion. He's here to be a shithead, in a thread about hating people like him. Probing people for questioning you allowing him to post unmolested is a bad move

BENGHAZI 2 posted:

The fact that it took that much effort to even get the most minimal response is kind of part of the issue

NovemberMike posted:

Oh wow, it sounds like he really dropped the ball. You should get a refund, how much were you paying him?

NovemberMike posted:

Oh wow, it sounds like he really dropped the ball. You should get a refund, how much were you paying him?

Reene posted:

Apropos of nothing else (because I really don't want to touch the rest of the discussion) the people complaining about it being "only" a sixer should keep in mind that sixers are the only mod action that immediately goes through without admin intervention, which I know isn't immediately apparent but some of you have been around long enough to know how the mod queue works.

BENGHAZI 2 posted:

ah yes the mods here are free from criticism because they're unpaid, a theory borne out by a brief glance at history

im not calling for his head, or even for him to step down, i think hes still a decent human being, but he handled this situation really badly and the way he's responded to criticism isnt helping

StrixNebulosa posted:

That post also goes for sexism / transphobia / homophobia in nerd spaces. A decent person goes "oh okay, sorry to make you uncomfortable" and knocks it off. Jerks love to lord their power over you, complete with "am I triggering you" "jokes".

Reene posted:

Apropos of nothing else (because I really don't want to touch the rest of the discussion) the people complaining about it being "only" a sixer should keep in mind that sixers are the only mod action that immediately goes through without admin intervention, which I know isn't immediately apparent but some of you have been around long enough to know how the mod queue works.

RagnarokAngel posted:

For lack of a better place I'm curious people's takes. Is it appropriate to play Germans in WW2 minis games, like ever?

Just to clarify I have zero interest in doing so myself, I'm an American Jew so I don't even really wanna touch it with a ten foot pole but I end up feeling conflicted. One side of me wants to believe that there are legit non-fashy reasons for doing it, like genuine historical interest, the other part of me starts feeling uncomfortable when some dude in a gaming store knows just a bit too much about German history circa 1938 to 1944 and makes me wanna edge away slowly. Is there a good middle ground?

RagnarokAngel posted:

For lack of a better place I'm curious people's takes. Is it appropriate to play Germans in WW2 minis games, like ever?

Just to clarify I have zero interest in doing so myself, I'm an American Jew so I don't even really wanna touch it with a ten foot pole but I end up feeling conflicted. One side of me wants to believe that there are legit non-fashy reasons for doing it, like genuine historical interest, the other part of me starts feeling uncomfortable when some dude in a gaming store knows just a bit too much about German history circa 1938 to 1944 and makes me wanna edge away slowly. Is there a good middle ground?

RagnarokAngel posted:

For lack of a better place I'm curious people's takes. Is it appropriate to play Germans in WW2 minis games, like ever?

Just to clarify I have zero interest in doing so myself, I'm an American Jew so I don't even really wanna touch it with a ten foot pole but I end up feeling conflicted. One side of me wants to believe that there are legit non-fashy reasons for doing it, like genuine historical interest, the other part of me starts feeling uncomfortable when some dude in a gaming store knows just a bit too much about German history circa 1938 to 1944 and makes me wanna edge away slowly. Is there a good middle ground?

PinheadSlim posted:

Someone having a German army, or even someone who has encyclopedic knowledge of German tanks and camo patterns isn't a red flag. If they have multiple German armies but no Allies, or glorify the SS, or they make inappropriate jokes then you've got a problem.

jakodee posted:

Beer also claimed that he didn't understand what "adjacent" meant in context in the "tell me I'm bad" thread that he shut down.

LordAba posted:

There were a couple people in this thread that didn't know. So what.
I am not a fascist. Never was a fascist. You guys took a quote that I was banned for, which I didn't bring up again, and followed me around the internet with it. A quote in which I didn't expose any superiority based on any criteria. A quote in which I never endorsed or moralized the laws I sourced. Even in the QQ thread people like DiHK were taking me out of context.
You were bullies. I ignore bullies. Maybe that was a mistake.

Elector_Nerdlingen mentioned creating and fostering good communities. Will anyone new here see your actions as supporting a good community?
I live in Platteville, and called out the owner of the local shop for being anti-semetic, in the face of a semi-pro Magic player no less.
https://www.yelp.com/biz/bobs-baseball-dugout-platteville
The thing is, I'm also helping out the new shop by distancing them from the old (I'm in a small town, but most people don't know games and still confuse the two) and trying to grow a wargaming community through Kill Team.

Maybe Beer will ban me for this and I wouldn't blame him. Then you can cheer, leave Beer alone, and move on.

LordAba posted:

There were a couple people in this thread that didn't know. So what.
I am not a fascist. Never was a fascist. You guys took a quote that I was banned for, which I didn't bring up again, and followed me around the internet with it. A quote in which I didn't expose any superiority based on any criteria. A quote in which I never endorsed or moralized the laws I sourced. Even in the QQ thread people like DiHK were taking me out of context.
You were bullies. I ignore bullies. Maybe that was a mistake. What I don't like is you trying to drag Beer down as well. They had nothing to do with this.

Elector_Nerdlingen mentioned creating and fostering good communities. Will anyone new here see your actions as supporting a good community?
I live in Platteville, and called out the owner of the local shop for being anti-semetic, in the face of a semi-pro Magic player no less.
https://www.yelp.com/biz/bobs-baseball-dugout-platteville
The thing is, I'm also helping out the new shop by distancing them from the old (I'm in a small town, but most people don't know games and still confuse the two) and trying to grow a wargaming community through Kill Team.

Maybe Beer will ban me for this and I wouldn't blame him. Then you can cheer, leave Beer alone, and move on.

Drone posted:

Y'know this fun little forums feature really doesn't work if people keep loving quoting the guy.

LordAba posted:

There were a couple people in this thread that didn't know. So what.
I am not a fascist. Never was a fascist. You guys took a quote that I was banned for, which I didn't bring up again, and followed me around the internet with it. A quote in which I didn't expose any superiority based on any criteria. A quote in which I never endorsed or moralized the laws I sourced. Even in the QQ thread people like DiHK were taking me out of context.
You were bullies. I ignore bullies. Maybe that was a mistake. What I don't like is you trying to drag Beer down as well. They had nothing to do with this.

Elector_Nerdlingen mentioned creating and fostering good communities. Will anyone new here see your actions as supporting a good community?

I live in Platteville, and called out the owner of the local shop for being anti-semetic, in the face of a semi-pro Magic player no less.
https://www.yelp.com/biz/bobs-baseball-dugout-platteville
The thing is, I'm also helping out the new shop by distancing them from the old (I'm in a small town, but most people don't know games and still confuse the two) and trying to grow a wargaming community through Kill Team.

Maybe Beer will ban me for this and I wouldn't blame him. Then you can cheer, leave Beer alone, and move on.

LordAba posted:

There were a couple people in this thread that didn't know. So what.
I am not a fascist. Never was a fascist. You guys took a quote that I was banned for, which I didn't bring up again, and followed me around the internet with it. A quote in which I didn't expose any superiority based on any criteria. A quote in which I never endorsed or moralized the laws I sourced. Even in the QQ thread people like DiHK were taking me out of context.
You were bullies. I ignore bullies. Maybe that was a mistake. What I don't like is you trying to drag Beer down as well. They had nothing to do with this.

Elector_Nerdlingen mentioned creating and fostering good communities. Will anyone new here see your actions as supporting a good community?
I live in Platteville, and called out the owner of the local shop for being anti-semetic, in the face of a semi-pro Magic player no less.
https://www.yelp.com/biz/bobs-baseball-dugout-platteville
The thing is, I'm also helping out the new shop by distancing them from the old (I'm in a small town, but most people don't know games and still confuse the two) and trying to grow a wargaming community through Kill Team.

Maybe Beer will ban me for this and I wouldn't blame him. Then you can cheer, leave Beer alone, and move on.

Elector_Nerdlingen posted:

The point that's been repeated, perhaps not enough, is that the actual fash always always tell on themselves. They can't help it. You don't need to hunt them out, you just need to know their grade school secret codes and watch out for obvious tells.

LordAba posted:

people like DiHK were taking me out of context.

quote:

DiHK posted:

B4tBG is not a Nazi or nazi-adjacent or a nazi sympathizer.