|
Jack2142 posted:Again devil's advocate this is assuming Venezuela would have a highly motivated anti-us insurgency. They will greet us as liberators
|
#
?
May 1, 2019 21:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 17:18 |
|
|
Jack2142 posted:Again devil's advocate this is assuming Venezuela would have a highly motivated anti-us insurgency. This isn't World War 2, and Venezuela isn't Paris.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2019 21:27
|
|
|
Could we just drop what amounts to Clancy-chat about Afghanistan and Iraq and occupying Venezuela?
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2019 21:28
|
|
|
Rust Martialis posted:Could we just drop what amounts to Clancy-chat about Afghanistan and Iraq and occupying Venezuela? I will if Bolton will
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2019 21:29
|
|
|
Kawasaki Nun posted:I was telling Mordin that he was off base in questioning the efficacy of the US military on the basis of engagements with the FARC. It was the cspam squad that decided to broach the topic so maybe don't question reality so zealously and no one will have to point out that your opinions are off base You specifically were arguing against Majorian's claim that the US's record against insurgencies "hasn't been great" by bringing up a completely irrelevant metric (our ability to continue to have boots on the ground).
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2019 21:30
|
|
|
Rust Martialis posted:Could we just drop what amounts to Clancy-chat about Afghanistan and Iraq and occupying Venezuela? This is the right action and I am going to stop trying to devil's advocate because I don't think the US should have any type of military intervention.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2019 21:32
|
|
|
Kawasaki Nun posted:You mean we are still occupying portions of those nation's despite two decades of resistance? Seems like our capability to occupy foreign nations across the planet is plainly demonstrated by that. Bro, what? This is literally double think right here. "I think the occupations demonstrate the USA's capability to successfully occupy foreign countries but neither occupation was successful or worthwhile by any metric." Like yeah... if you just mean insofar as we're still there in a quagmire and haven't given up yet, sure. We are negotiating with the Taliban to hand back Afghanistan to them when we leave though and we've accomplished little else aside from mass terror and death, so lol. This is what I meant by military fantasies outside of all strategic context. Like yeah dude, we could go in and flatten Caracas and put up an American flag but to what end? We could sit there for 2-3 decades in a meatgrinder killing hundreds of thousands, but loving why? Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 21:39 on May 1, 2019 |
|
#
?
May 1, 2019 21:35
|
|
|
The Kingfish posted:It’s a call for an organized labor movement, not electoralism. That was my understanding as well. I know some in this thread have dismissed large-scale striking. Why? Not enough food?
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2019 21:35
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/mfox_us/status/1123659759205396480 https://twitter.com/mfox_us/status/1123662664285261825
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2019 21:37
|
|
|
Kawasaki Nun posted:Right I forgot that you also just make up positions wholesale. Could you point to where I made a post in support of American intervention or neoliberal policies? American policy *is* neoliberal policy, basically ever since the term neoliberal was coined, and without interruption so far. While you have indeed not had the courage to state what you do support, over 90% of your posts in this thread consist of recalcitrant criticisms, verbal abuse and deliberate mischaracterisations of those who oppose US policy with regards to Venezuela, so one can infer that either you support the neoliberal agenda, or are an unwitting tool for it.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2019 21:38
|
|
|
I guess we have to admit there are many countries the us threaten to invade and didn't besides all the ones we did.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2019 21:50
|
|
|
Zidrooner posted:American policy *is* neoliberal policy, basically ever since the term neoliberal was coined, and without interruption so far. While you have indeed not had the courage to state what you do support, over 90% of your posts in this thread consist of recalcitrant criticisms, verbal abuse and deliberate mischaracterisations of those who oppose US policy with regards to Venezuela, so one can infer that either you support the neoliberal agenda, or are an unwitting tool for it. I support the Venezuelan people and think Maduro should step down and that the USA has no place attempting to influence or direct how this process is undertaken.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2019 21:53
|
|
|
Kawasaki Nun posted:I support the Venezuelan people and think Maduro should step down and that the USA has no place attempting to influence or direct how this process is undertaken. There's no way in hell the USA is not going to attempt to influence the process though Does that fact alter any of your other views
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2019 21:57
|
|
|
Gort posted:There's no way in hell the USA is not going to attempt to influence the process though I have hope in the utter incompetence of the Trump administration. I think I may be on solid ground here.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2019 21:59
|
|
|
Rust Martialis posted:I have hope in the utter incompetence of the Trump administration. I think I may be on solid ground here. You can do a lot of damage while loving up though
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2019 21:59
|
|
|
Gort posted:There's no way in hell the USA is not going to attempt to influence the process though I know, which is why I think it's important to have a thorough understanding of the motivations and positions of all of the relevant Venezuelan leaders involved in this current fracas. Half the reason so many of my posts were antagonistic towards posters in this thread was due to their tendency to reduce all discussion to "US bad -> Individuals acting with US blessing also therefore bad -> end of analysis -> proceed to shitposting" The constant reiteration of uncontested points, such as the observation that the Sanctions are not borne of humanitarianism but are an effort at inciting regime change, don't really do anything other than divert attention away from other discussions pertinent to this crisis as it unfolds.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2019 22:18
|
|
|
Gort posted:You can do a lot of damage while loving up
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2019 22:19
|
|
|
Edit: read too fast, carry on.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2019 22:24
|
|
|
Rent-A-Cop posted:Translate this to Latin and the CIA has a new motto. zocio posted:We Latin Americans speak Spanish... How out of touch can you be!? holy poo poo accidental tankie joke post v same, had to check post history first haha. Ruzihm fucked around with this message at 22:29 on May 1, 2019 |
|
#
?
May 1, 2019 22:26
|
|
|
zocio posted:Edit: read too fast, carry on. Genuinely thought this was a clever joke until your edit.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2019 22:29
|
|
|
William Bear posted:This seems easier said than done. Do this party have any significant following in Venezuela? Like if there were somehow free and fair elections in the coming year, would they have a shot in taking control?
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2019 22:38
|
|
|
punk rebel ecks posted:Do this party have any significant following in Venezuela? Like if there were somehow free and fair elections in the coming year, would they have a shot in taking control? Not at all. Nicmer Evans only gets a tiny bit of spotlight because he's a former Chavista, but Marea Socialista is pretty unimportant.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2019 22:59
|
|
|
Rent-A-Cop posted:Translate this to Latin and the CIA has a new motto. For fun I fed this into Google translate. But the thing about Latin mottos is you have to get them down to three words. So I did the only rational thing. Keep feeding out through a bunch of languages until it simplifies. And this process distilled the slogan down to something I think might be more even more of a threat: Quid amplius possumus.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2019 23:04
|
|
|
alpha_destroy posted:For fun I fed this into Google translate. But the thing about Latin mottos is you have to get them down to three words. So I did the only rational thing. Keep feeding out through a bunch of languages until it simplifies. And this process distilled the slogan down to something I think might be more even more of a threat: Quid amplius possumus. I think Dwight Eisenhower's complaint to Allen Dulles still furnishes us with the best possible slogan for the CIA, which according to google translate might be translated as "Legatum ex Cinere"
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2019 23:22
|
|
|
I'm short four arms and three sets of eyes keeping up with the protests and everything else I have to do. Apologies for disappearing from the thread. This is  footage of a journalist injured in an explosion while covering a protest in Altamira today . The tweet claims the explosive device was thrown by the police, citing protesters at the scene:https://twitter.com/RCamachoVzla/status/1123709143066587138 EDIT: I should also say that there have been widespread, sustained protests throughout the country during the day reminiscent of what we through the first half of 2017.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2019 23:28
|
|
|
Chuck Boone posted:I'm short four arms and three sets of eyes keeping up with the protests and everything else I have to do. Apologies for disappearing from the thread. Today seems less active then yesterday and photos I’ve seen look like smaller crowds then we’ve seen recently. Does that jive with what your seeing? Has yesterday backfired? I guess it doesn’t seem like it invigorated the opposition. I guess I’m looking for a read of the overall mood based on your sources and context.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2019 23:38
|
|
|
Labradoodle posted:Not at all. Nicmer Evans only gets a tiny bit of spotlight because he's a former Chavista, but Marea Socialista is pretty unimportant. I see. Thank you.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2019 23:53
|
|
|
freeasinbeer posted:Today seems less active then yesterday and photos I’ve seen look like smaller crowds then we’ve seen recently. Does that jive with what your seeing? Has yesterday backfired? I guess it doesn’t seem like it invigorated the opposition. Compared to yesterday, yes, there appear to be fewer people out on the streets. But the protests around the country today are still big, even by Venezuelan standards. I think the casualty list will be longer today than yesterday. I'd say that the confrontations between protesters and the authorities have been more violent and more intense today than they were yesterday. As I mentioned earlier, what we're seeing today is reminiscent of the 2017 protests (pitched battles between protesters and authorities, lots of tear gas/rubber pellets, protesters with home-made shields, etc.). I think it's safe to say that the goal of the opposition was to get Maduro to leave yesterday, so that did not work. However, again, given the intensity of the protests today, I think it's too early to say that what happened yesterday didn't invigorate the opposition. Based on what we're seeing so far today, I'd say that the opposite is true. But again, I think it's too early to say definitely either way. EDIT: El Pitazo is reporting this evening that the police officers who tried to arrest the colectivo armado shooting at protesters yesterday have all been relieved of their service revolvers, and that they will be subject to an investigation by a police oversight body. EDIT: This is the flight path that Russian military airplanes take to Venezuela (Russia - Syria - West Africa - Venezuela). Worth keeping an eye on this flight: https://twitter.com/GDarkconrad/status/1123640807658074112 Chuck Boone fucked around with this message at 00:41 on May 2, 2019 |
|
#
?
May 2, 2019 00:01
|
|
|
Chuck Boone posted:Compared to yesterday, yes, there appear to be fewer people out on the streets. But the protests around the country today are still big, even by Venezuelan standards. I think the casualty list will be longer today than yesterday. I'd say that the confrontations between protesters and the authorities have been more violent and more intense today than they were yesterday. As I mentioned earlier, what we're seeing today is reminiscent of the 2017 protests (pitched battles between protesters and authorities, lots of tear gas/rubber pellets, protesters with home-made shields, etc.). that airplane turned off their transponder sometime after this tweet 
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2019 00:56
|
|
|
Celexi posted:that airplane turned off their transponder sometime after this tweet Yeah, they turn them on and off. If it's going to Venezuela, I'm betting that it will re-appear for a few minutes as it enters Senegal on its way to Dakar. It will refuel/load up there, and then it will fly across the Atlantic. Then, it will re-appear off the coast of Bermuda, change course towards Caracas, and disappear once it enters Venezuelan air space. All of this is based on previous flight patterns of Russian military planes going to Venezuela.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2019 01:22
|
|
|
The venezuelan opposition has a racism and sexism problem: https://twitter.com/RealAlexRubi/st...agenumber%3D117 https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/s...agenumber%3D117
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2019 01:24
|
|
|
NTN24 is reporting that a 17 year old girl has died in hospital after she was shot during a protest in Altamira earlier this afternoon. This is the first fatality of the day, I think. Yesterday, a 24 year old named Samuel Mendez was killed during a protest in La Victoria, Aragua. CORRECTION: Jurubith was 27, not 17. https://twitter.com/CATERINAV/status/1123746609257488386 Chuck Boone fucked around with this message at 01:59 on May 2, 2019 |
|
#
?
May 2, 2019 01:42
|
|
|
Given that the country's been through years of famine, I can see how a prospective Venezuelan resistance movement might be less energetic and motivated than those in the Middle East, but the drug cartels are going to go absolutely loving wild, and will likely see a bunch of the colectivos fold into them (more than is the case already). The US is crap at dealing with those, too.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2019 01:53
|
|
|
Discendo Vox posted:You've lost track of your own train of thought at this point- I've never even brought up Cuba in this conversation, you've only just added it to the mix. What you have done is confuse a basic literacy of the underpinnings of international law as an embrace of...well, it seems to shift and expand or contract from post to post. So many words to avoid being forced to defend what I suspect you know to be indefensible. Yes, I brought up Cuba, because Trump threatened the Cuban people yesterday (e: in response to Venezuela). I can say unequivocally that this is bad. I don't think you actually disagree. Kobayashi fucked around with this message at 02:08 on May 2, 2019 |
|
#
?
May 2, 2019 02:05
|
|
|
Darth Walrus posted:Given that the country's been through years of famine, I can see how a prospective Venezuelan resistance movement might be less energetic and motivated than those in the Middle East, but the drug cartels are going to go absolutely loving wild, and will likely see a bunch of the colectivos fold into them (more than is the case already). The US is crap at dealing with those, too. The government currently works closely with the drug cartels via the military already.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2019 02:40
|
|
|
CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:The venezuelan opposition has a racism and sexism problem: Nice clickbait
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2019 03:21
|
|
|
We've discussed these two sources before, of course.Kobayashi posted:So many words to avoid being forced to defend what I suspect you know to be indefensible. Yes, I brought up Cuba, because Trump threatened the Cuban people yesterday (e: in response to Venezuela). I can say unequivocally that this is bad. I don't think you actually disagree. You changed the subject to the Cuba threat and continue to fixate on it (and yes, it's garbage) because you didn't want to engage with literally anything else I or any of the other people in the thread with legal training have been saying to you about how international relations and law works.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2019 04:22
|
|
|
Chuck Boone posted:This is Looks and sounds like a tear gas cannister which explodes, to me. They can do that and injure people pretty frequently but for some reason keep being used everywhere in the world. The reason I think it's a tear gas cannister is you hear a snapping thump sound a half second or so before the explosion happens, which is distinctly different and sharper sounding than the other thumping sounds going on, and that's probably because it's pointed at the camera this time. Then if you pause when the explosion goes off, it's here:  Which you can see a thick cloud of white smoke like you see when tear gas cannisters first start putting out the tear gas, it's also aimed at the ground slightly behind the people, where tear gas is typically aimed. Afterwards you can see this item in the lower right here which wasn't there before:  It is spewing white smoke, spinning, and moving from left to right across the frame. Tear gas is hosed up.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2019 04:35
|
|
|
So at what point do we see Russian and Chinese troops on the ground?
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2019 04:52
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 17:18 |
|
|
Seems like a good article here: https://twitter.com/jdawsey1/status/1123754104835252227?s=19 tl;dr: Bolton wants a war but the Pentagon doesn't, and even Trump is skeptical and unlikely to authorize any actual actions.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2019 05:08
|
|