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Chomp8645 posted:Is this guy trying to make a coherent point or is he just saying "I like EU4" in a really weird way? The games create stories that its enjoyable to playthrough. EU4 I actually like less than the others but I chose it as an example because I think it's the least obvious about that.
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May 2, 2019 05:13
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reignonyourparade posted:They HAVE a bland wargame So does EUIV? I enjoy EUIV but I get confused whenever people hold up EUIV to lord it over Rome, it's a bland wargame too. EDIT: Okay I didn't see that post. The same sort of stories can happen in Rome? Minus the Protestant League but mods can take care of that. Airspace fucked around with this message at 05:23 on May 2, 2019 |
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May 2, 2019 05:15
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Is there a general guide to winning wars against a superior opponent in paradox games? After an evening of whittling down the Greek peninsula.I'm going to be going to war with Macedon tomorrow as Epirus. We are both similar in city counts, but they have more pop, more armies, and more cohorts. I'm looking for a video or something that might give overall battle strategies. Like should I be fighting on my forts? How does morale, discipline, etc play into actual combat? Is it possible to bait the AI so that I might be able to stack wipe them? Something more specific to Imperator, is heavy infanty and Archer likely to be the solid army comp for most of the game? I'm pretty new to paradox games with maybe 59 hours between Stellaris/ eu4 on release. So I'm just trying to figure out how things work in a game that doesn't like to tell you these things. Zotix fucked around with this message at 06:01 on May 2, 2019 |
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May 2, 2019 05:50
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Chomp8645 posted:Is this guy trying to make a coherent point or is he just saying "I like EU4" in a really weird way? A lot of people don't care about strategic ganeplay that much. So they don't care about expanded mechanics and strategic depth. Rome is a lesser roleplaying experience and for many it means a lesser paradox game. You are not killing Catholic French, it's about murdering Hepatic Sampapians, it's like Stellaris but without mushrooms and starfish. You only get events about a specific game mechanic, and there are no funny events like wench throws herself at you. Different countries have their own bonuses but those show themselves in strategic part which you don't care enough, they don't have special button and event. CK2 and EU4 also had natural goals to work for - almost anyone has something to form or usurp and many people seem to stop shortly thereafter. So for many people attempt to make paradox games looks like adding a better story into a porn film. Technically any film needs a good story, but in this case it only distracts from flavor. Can't genocide and marry sister in that game, what do I care about deep army composition?
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May 2, 2019 06:58
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ilitarist posted:A lot of people don't care about strategic ganeplay that much. So they don't care about expanded mechanics and strategic depth. Rome is a lesser roleplaying experience and for many it means a lesser paradox game. You are not killing Catholic French, it's about murdering Hepatic Sampapians, it's like Stellaris but without mushrooms and starfish. You only get events about a specific game mechanic, and there are no funny events like wench throws herself at you. Different countries have their own bonuses but those show themselves in strategic part which you don't care enough, they don't have special button and event. CK2 and EU4 also had natural goals to work for - almost anyone has something to form or usurp and many people seem to stop shortly thereafter. this would be a good argument if IR was actually deep and strategic, but it isn't.
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May 2, 2019 07:02
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It may not be deep and strategic enough for you, but it's deeper and more strategic than any previous Paradox game.
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May 2, 2019 07:10
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ilitarist posted:It may not be deep and strategic enough for you, but it's deeper and more strategic than any previous Paradox game. you seriously think this? you really think this is a deeper game and simulation than vicky, ck2, eu4, or hell even HoI and stellaris?
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May 2, 2019 07:17
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In terms of "the game as it is played" rather than looking at the structure of underlying systems I'd definitely rate it as more strategically challenging than V2, EU4 and CK2. I don't play HoI and I haven't played Stellaris since the last couple of reworks so I don't want to comment on those. This is from the perspective of Paradox games being almost exclusively about conquering poo poo though and the high fidelity of the map, improved combat, and the interplay between AE and culture are doing almost all of the lifting. Most of what is generally passed as "depth" in EU4, for example, adds nothing to the strategic aspect of the game, it just gives you extra buttons to press every 10-20 years to get some bonuses. Imperator definitely falls down hard on the flavour / roleplay aspects which is probably reason for a lot of the bad reviews and wildly different opinions, since for some people this aspect of the game is totally optional or nice to have but not necessary, but for others it's critical to their ability to enjoy playing the game. RabidWeasel fucked around with this message at 07:58 on May 2, 2019 |
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May 2, 2019 07:35
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the game feels mostly like playing base eu4. with the addition of a potentially interesting (not entirely realized) set of faction/civil war mechanics. not unlike the original eu:rome from my recollection (except with that feeling like eu3).
Zane fucked around with this message at 07:45 on May 2, 2019 |
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May 2, 2019 07:42
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RabidWeasel posted:In terms of "the game as it is played" rather than looking at the structure of underlying systems I'd definitely rate it as more strategically challenging than V2, EU4 and CK2. I don't play HoI and I haven't played Stellaris since the last couple of reworks so I don't want to comment on those. This is basically me. I enjoy the flavor and roleplaying aspects of pdox games the most, go figure ck2 is my favorite, and while I really do think IR has some really neat systems that can be ironed out to be amazing, they are rather contextless. Even like EU tier flavor is missing, for everyone but Rome. Like I've played as Sparta, which while not historically significant you'd figure it would at least have some events, and Egypt. Neither had any country specific flavor events that I saw. Nothing about the Nile flooding, or any of the various religious festivals, or even court intrigue really. All the little things pdox games usually have that interrupts your map painting. Take the intrigue system and court member demands a position in your government events, which are shared between CK2 and IR, at least in theory. In CK2 you could get people wanting a spot in your council, but they'd usually only badger you if they were your characters spouse or had better stats. As well you could just flat out turn them down. In IR it seems the people who demand a spot are entirely random, and have whatever stats. There's no option to turn them down, beyond waiting them out. Which gets into the second issue. In CK2 everyone gets the intrigue system, the AI has the same one you do. You can see how it works, know what plots are available, etc. In IR there is some kind of intrigue system, but it's not one the player can access, it's just a black box and events pop out, usually all bad. Eimi fucked around with this message at 08:17 on May 2, 2019 |
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May 2, 2019 08:13
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Sheng-Ji Yang posted:you seriously think this? you really think this is a deeper game and simulation than vicky, ck2, eu4, or hell even HoI and stellaris? Yes, it's obvious to me. Unless instead "deep" is synonymous with "a lot of numbers" for you I can't see how can you think otherwise. Also what @RabidWeasel said and what I've said previously. People confuse depth with content. People care about thousands of "something happened in real history so get this advisor or +5 prestige" events more than a limited number of systemic events that are greatly affected by your ruler stats and add an additional level of character interactions that provides opportunities for character control without guaranteeing full control. People care about genetic national ideas giving a bonus to trade more than organizing a dozen trade goods coming into your capital, interacting with existing goods and creating a unique set of national/capital province bonuses. Add to that bolder use of MPs (which make much more sense than gold but are not as familiar to players) which initially made many people hate EU4 too. Nowadays I think most people realized that deciding whether to spend your ADM on ideas, tech or conquering and coring is an interesting choice, but on release, people complained about arcadey coring with button click instead true hardcore waiting for 50 years. I think big part of people thinking that Paradox games become much better later is that they get more accustomed to those new ideas; games themselves become more stable and have more content but I don't believe any Paradox game has ever moved more than a single point on my 10 points review scale. ilitarist fucked around with this message at 09:15 on May 2, 2019 |
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May 2, 2019 09:05
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The military, economy and tech system are all much deeper in this game then in EUIV and CK2. e: Stellaris is more complex on all fronts but that complexity makes it difficult so see where your decisions are making a difference. IR is simpler then Stellaris but your decisions are also more meaningful. NoNotTheMindProbe fucked around with this message at 09:13 on May 2, 2019 |
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May 2, 2019 09:11
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The game has way more depth and way less content than Paradox' other history painter games, but that's sort of expected with a brand new game being compared to games with years of post-launch support.
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May 2, 2019 09:16
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Cynic Jester posted:The game has way more depth and way less content than Paradox' other history painter games, but that's sort of expected with a brand new game being compared to games with years of post-launch support. It still compares disfavorably to launch-everything-else as far as i can tell, excepting possibly stelaris which i still haven't gotten.
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May 2, 2019 09:20
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NoNotTheMindProbe posted:e: Stellaris is more complex on all fronts but that complexity makes it difficult so see where your decisions are making a difference. IR is simpler then Stellaris but your decisions are also more meaningful. Maybe it is so with Stellaris but for me all complexity is made moot by two things: - No matter who I am I still build stations, build stations, build stations, colonize planets, build stuff that is either work with planet specialization or solves a problem of overpopulation. - Even if you give AI maximum bonuses it won't be able to do anything against you as long as your skill level allows you to react to alerts in an expected way and build new stations.
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May 2, 2019 09:27
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reignonyourparade posted:It still compares disfavorably to launch-everything-else as far as i can tell, excepting possibly stelaris which i still haven't gotten. The game has a lot of problems to iron out. I'm not that good with gameplay yet so I don't feel comfortable talking about balance beyond high level concepts, but UI clearly needs work. Each province needs culture/religion/class piecharts (you can see classes in state overview but not in province view) and I'm still thinking that maybe I'm blind, there's no way they wouldn't give you this info. We also miss a lot of alerts, I blame them for the fact that my ruling family has almost died off before I discovered that I have to marry them manually. Macrobuilder that doesn't show you city manpower/income/populace is a joke and it's hard to understand why didn't they copy EU4 functionality. Maybe there are too many cities in empires so they don't want to overwhelm you? I'm also sad that music is not as varied and good as in any other game since EU3. After numerous hours of play I still only remember one theme (with the violin, you know the one) and others don't even register. And experience shows that mods won't help much, modders think that Lord of the Rings and Witcher soundtrack makes everything better. ilitarist fucked around with this message at 11:10 on May 2, 2019 |
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May 2, 2019 10:05
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First patch is livequote:###################
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May 2, 2019 10:37
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uaRPRFx6_c Another video review. Pretty harsh too, but more self-conscious. He doesn't like lack of personality like many others but argues about gameplay, not about fluff. He doesn't like MP too but is more eloquent when explaining why and comes to it from more of a psychological side. He doesn't say it's unrealistic or non-strategic or something. He cares about it feels like it's too much about waiting for enough resources to instantly do a thing as opposed to following the progress as it is with tech. It's also telling that he has his own impression of the importance of specific types of power: he says Oratory is the most important while many people cry about it being useless. Which to me tells that there are different playstyles that people naturally fall into. This guy seems credible (even though he mentions that Greeks should have a Phalanx tactic or something... which they have). He says he played 300 hours and it was fun. So perhaps he's right and 300 hours later I'd say that I'm done with that game while I have much more in EU4 which I consider inferior as a game. It's still fine. Even 10 hour strategy game (like Into the Breach or something) is great and costs its money as long as it feels good.
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May 2, 2019 11:04
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quote:- Fixed disloyal generals being overly helpful and attacking enemy armies. Seems like a bad fix? Why wouldn't a disloyal general be chasing popularity by attacking enemy stacks on their own? I think they should at least fight enemy stacks in defensive wars.
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May 2, 2019 11:56
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ilitarist posted:He says he played 300 hours and it was fun. You'd have to have a broken mind to consider this anything other then a glowing recommendation. e. reminds of Steam review for Skyrim along the lines of "game is repetitive and kind of boring - 400 hours played".
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May 2, 2019 12:03
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How do I tribe? I got the basics of monarchy and republic, but tribal play is scary and complicated. Why am I out of citizens? Do I want citizens? Do I raise armies or work with the retinues? Do I want freemen or tribesmen?
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May 2, 2019 12:10
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I don't understand how to win Civil Wars. You can't take the capital, that does nothing. Often the rebellion "country" has ridiculous manpower, and the battle engine means you can't kill enough troops even if you're stronger. It just doesn't make sense? Is it fighting battles? Conquering territory?
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May 2, 2019 12:12
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I quite like the game, really, but I do agree with the sentiment that you're frequently just waiting for more points/resources to do the next logical thing to do, with not enough decision making involved in that process. A large part of this is due to there only being one or two things to do with each monarch power... except for oratory, which has a shitton of uses. But still, this means that, for instance, you're just reupping your omen every time it runs out, and then convert when possible. Or if you're doing a WC, saving all your religion mana for stability. This one or two purpose functionality for everything makes for a lot of very linear and uninteresting decision making. I still enjoy the conquest side of the game quite a bit, but I'm hoping they spend a while focusing on everything else.algebra testes posted:I don't understand how to win Civil Wars. You have to conquer every last province from the revolter.
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May 2, 2019 12:12
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algebra testes posted:I don't understand how to win Civil Wars. You need to either take every province back or RNG capture the enemy leader in a battle.
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May 2, 2019 12:15
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ilitarist posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uaRPRFx6_c I hate that everything is a video nowadays. Oratory does EVERYTHING, who thinks it's useless? It's also the one that has the most decisions attached to it instead of a "This is the only thing you do with it" resource. And the person who said to split up their army to avoid attrition - it's attrition in enemy territory that hurts. And splitting armies there is a Bad Idea.
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May 2, 2019 12:33
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Taear posted:And the person who said to split up their army to avoid attrition - it's attrition in enemy territory that hurts. And splitting armies there is a Bad Idea. Concentrating them also gives far too much power to one general. The low supply caps, the slow speed of manpower recovery and the general loyalty mechanics do such a great job of fixing the big doomstack problem Paradox games usually have.
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May 2, 2019 12:37
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Taear posted:And the person who said to split up their army to avoid attrition - it's attrition in enemy territory that hurts. And splitting armies there is a Bad Idea. You still need to do it though, if you don't want to hemorrhage manpower. Same as in EU4, though there you can lean harder on mercenaries to offset the attrition of big stacks.
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May 2, 2019 12:38
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:Concentrating them also gives far too much power to one general. The low supply caps, the slow speed of manpower recovery and the general loyalty mechanics do such a great job of fixing the big doomstack problem Paradox games usually have. That's one thing I'm a big fan of in this game, slow manpower recovery and attrition mean that war is a challenge even if you have large armies. There's a lot to think about and manage during a war.
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May 2, 2019 13:00
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Taear posted:I hate that everything is a video nowadays. I keep my armies in adjacent provinces and converge them whenever a battle is threatened.
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May 2, 2019 13:04
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:I keep my armies in adjacent provinces and converge them whenever a battle is threatened. It's basically the same mechanic as sieging in eu4: keep the minimum required and slowly advance with the rest of your stacks nearby to reinforce. Gives the look of an advancing frontline in this game.
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May 2, 2019 13:08
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ilitarist posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uaRPRFx6_c Who thinks oratory is useless? It is objectively the most utilized resource in the game.
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May 2, 2019 13:21
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NoNotTheMindProbe posted:You'd have to have a broken mind to consider this anything other then a glowing recommendation. In this specific instance, the guy had made a lot of sponsored content so hi might have needed to play those 300 hours to make an opinion. There are cases when it's true. Not in the case of Skyrim, but I can totally see how you may have a lot of hours played in strategy game before you realize that it is a bad game. Strategy games work on a promise of a great gameplay, interplay of systems. Something like Stellaris may taunt you with an idea of a galaxy divided by federations and politics and grand mysteries. So you play for dozens of hours that you see as tutorial, as a preparation. And only after playing a lot you may realize that AI is not able to play the game even with all the bonuses, it wasn't your fault for playing on lower difficulty. Galaxy generates in a boring way, you spend hours for naught trying to find proper settings. Every type of civilization plays in the same boring way, and you needed 10 times you've started playing as various factions. You saw numerous patches and expansions and people saying that the game is great so you've tried again. So I have around 100 hours in Stellaris and I guess I like the music but the game in general is boring as hell and I regret trying to get into it. Some other person might have the same amount of time in Stellaris, think it's great and move on. ilitarist fucked around with this message at 13:26 on May 2, 2019 |
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May 2, 2019 13:21
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TorakFade posted:Couple questions: what are you people spending all your Oratory power for? I don't change laws very often, I'm loving tired of clicking "assimilate" (I should do it on, uhhhh, about 7000 pops?) and since a single claim for a province usually gives you a fairly big chunk of land, most often you can't even spend it all in claims (btw do claims ever expire?) For those who ask who thinks oratory power is useless - here's an example. He doesn't say it's useless but he struggles to find an application. I've seen on Reddit people claim that Civic is the only thing you ever need and everything else is useless. Also, about civil wars: the enemy leader may just die from any cause and then it's over. ilitarist fucked around with this message at 13:28 on May 2, 2019 |
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May 2, 2019 13:25
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quote:- The game will no longer resend all diplomatic messages to the player that has been saved, each time the game is loaded.
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May 2, 2019 14:14
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I'd quite like to be able to pick a side if a Civil War fires. I kinda get why you can't - it being meant to be a failure state but doesn't feel great if you get a civil war that you're going to lose but your nation will be fine once its over.
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May 2, 2019 14:29
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algebra testes posted:I don't understand how to win Civil Wars. There are 3 ways: Siege down every province, taking the capital last because it'll move somewhere else otherwise. Stackwipe every enemy army. Hope the leader randomly dies. Its a pretty tedious mechanic currently and I hope they change it, unlike rebellions which are way better than in previous games.
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May 2, 2019 14:38
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I think you can also win if you capture the leader of the rebellion in battle, a-la CK2.
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May 2, 2019 14:41
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Being able to hire mercenaries in enemy territory is colossal bullshit. loving love it when egypt hires 60000 mercenaries standing on top of rome and burns my capital down. There should at least be a notification when your enemies hire mercenaries in your territory.
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May 2, 2019 15:04
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Weebus posted:Being able to hire mercenaries in enemy territory is colossal bullshit. loving love it when egypt hires 60000 mercenaries standing on top of rome and burns my capital down. There should at least be a notification when your enemies hire mercenaries in your territory. Those troops start exiled. They'll need to go to Egypt territory to be of any use.
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May 2, 2019 15:08
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One of the things I'm angry about in I:R is fog. I highly recommend using this mod: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1723465882
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May 2, 2019 15:09
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