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General Dog posted:The problem with the ending and with the episode as a whole is how arbitrary it feels- it doesn't matter if the battle "held off" the Night King for any given amount of time, because there was never any kind of ticking clock. Bran was just there waiting for him to show up the whole time, he didn't need time to cast a spell or anything like that. Nothing was gained by the defense lasting for several hours (?) versus lasting for 15 minutes. Winterfell's defenses were winnowed down to a degree that NK felt comfortable landing his dragon and strolling up to Bran. When he did that, Arya snuck up and killed him. Hell, Dany's forces could have just stayed at Dragonstone- their sacrifice not only accomplished nothing, it was never even meant to accomplish anything from what we saw of the planning in the previous episode. I actually think Arya killing the Night King is fine, it's just I'd much rather it felt like other characters contributed to that victory. For example maybe the attempt to kill him on dragonback forces him to land and Arya manages to capitalize on that. That would mean that Jon and Dany's mission would've done something, and everyone stalling the zombies outside and on the walls would've bought them time.
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May 2, 2019 20:25
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Good lord ye goones are a joyless lot. Yes it could have been executed better in certain ways but as pointed out, the plan was to draw out the NK and dragon fire him while holding back the advance of the dead long enough to do that before winterfell is overwhelmed and everyone inside is killed, including the non-combatants. There was never going to be a prolonged siege, they never banked on having that kind of time and they would have been stupid to do so. They lured the NK into position and blasted him as planned but it didn’t work, and things generally went to poo poo. Then Arya got a pep talk and decided to take things into her own hands with the ninja skills she has been developing continually on screen since the very start of the series. Oh no we didn’t see her specifically learn to jump far when she was training with supernatural assassins, what a glaring plot hole. Maybe you can spend the next three weeks complaining that we’re never given an explanation of the ignition source or fuel for the dragons’ fire-breathing so they’re total Mary Sues and the lazy bad writers are leaving it to the viewer to fill in the holes.
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May 2, 2019 20:40
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wilderthanmild posted:I went back and watched the S4E9 Watchers on the Wall. I always forget how awesome that episode was. Especially the part with the one shot that just does a 360 degree pan of all the chaos in Castle Black. Tormund running around like a cartoon villain is amazing. Comparing just how understandable and clear the positions of every actor and flow of that battle is compared to this one at Winterfell is very telling. And yea, Tormund running around on that wall, laughing and slaying along the way was ace...it's still why I find popping on Smash Mouth's All Star when White Walkers are owning everyone tends to improve the scene by a factor of 10.
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May 2, 2019 20:46
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Thermos H Christ posted:Oh no we didn’t see her specifically learn to jump far when she was training with supernatural assassins, what a glaring plot hole. While I agree with the rest (and actually did mostly enjoy this last ep regardless of my misgivings), this really is a plot hole since I don't remember said supernatural assassins going all Jumpin' Jack Flash at any time in the 7 seasons before this (and lord knows they were given quite a bit of screen time). It was bad storytelling with no setup whatsoever, regardless of how 'realistic' it was or not, hence I will keep calling it out. Sorry...guess that means I think it's all bad or something! CrazyLoon fucked around with this message at 20:52 on May 2, 2019 |
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May 2, 2019 20:49
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CrazyLoon posted:Comparing just how understandable and clear the positions of every actor and flow of that battle is compared to this one at Winterfell is very telling. And yea, Tormund running around on that wall, laughing and slaying along the way was ace...it's still why I find popping on Smash Mouth's All Star when White Walkers are owning everyone tends to improve the scene by a factor of 10. I think I mentioned it before, but in one of the making-of things for that episode the guy who played Thorne said he was legit kinda afraid during his fight with Tormund because of how incredibly into it Kristofer Hivju is 
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May 2, 2019 20:49
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It's going to be really awkward when Jon brings up his parentage again to Dany, considering she did all the work that fight. The kill counter off her dragon + getting the NK thrown off of his undead dragon directly into the courtyard. Meanwhile Jon reverted to his pre-Lord Commander days of usefulness in the clutch. I guess he hadn't levelled up dragonriding yet so could only watch the fight. Dr. Video Games 0112 fucked around with this message at 21:01 on May 2, 2019 |
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May 2, 2019 20:53
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Thermos H Christ posted:Good lord ye goones are a joyless lot. They didn't lure poo poo. He fell out of the sky and then Dany saw him. It was dumb luck. e: lmao I just checked and Arya gets her pep talk the scene before the NK fire failure happens. CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK fucked around with this message at 21:03 on May 2, 2019 |
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May 2, 2019 20:57
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I think the show is real dumb and the writers are real bad but I still generally like the characters/actors and still have fun watching. The arguments online are way more entertaining though.
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May 2, 2019 21:01
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Bottom Liner posted:I think the show is real dumb and the writers are real bad but I still generally like the characters/actors and still have fun watching. The arguments online are way more entertaining though.  I would have liked more characters to die but it's clear the writers are too chicken to do it.
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May 2, 2019 21:03
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Dr. Video Games 0112 posted:getting the NK thrown off of his undead dragon directly into the courtyard. that didnt happen at all. he was outside the Winterfell walls
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May 2, 2019 21:09
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wilderthanmild posted:I went back and watched the S4E9 Watchers on the Wall. I always forget how awesome that episode was. Especially the part with the one shot that just does a 360 degree pan of all the chaos in Castle Black. Tormund running around like a cartoon villain is amazing. the boys reciting the night's watch oath as the giant comes barreling towards the gate is one of my favorite scenes. https://twitter.com/miltosyerolemou/status/1123843210953011203
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May 2, 2019 21:09
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Bottom Liner posted:that didnt happen at all. he was outside the Winterfell walls That's weird I remembered it that way, watching that part again Jon's dragon does most of the fighting while Dany ganks the NK. I distinctly remember it being inside the walls, maybe I should have turn up the brightness ha ha
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May 2, 2019 21:16
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Thermos H Christ posted:Good lord ye goones are a joyless lot. I think you've mostly got the right of it. I have some critiques of the season. Especially with the Army of the Dead being the warm up for Queen Brotherfucker and her horny pirate, since I think it really undercuts the "putting aside petty squabbles" question. But on the whole, I can appreciate the freakin' ride.' I'm glad that Miltos Yerolemou has that much going for him. That meme is worse than the one from yesterday.
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May 2, 2019 21:17
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Excuse me everyone here is my brilliant strategy for winning the battle https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJZIpktJMhs
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May 2, 2019 21:29
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:They didn't lure poo poo. He fell out of the sky and then Dany saw him. It was dumb luck. Dumb luck? They executed a 2v1 dragon fight as planned and knocked him off his dragon. They proceeded to fly straight downward, understanding gravity and that there's no precedent to believe the NK can himself fly, and found him as expected on the ground below where he was knocked off the dragon. Then they executed the original plan of killing him with dragon fire but that didn't work.
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May 2, 2019 21:37
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What if the reason all the other white walkers are dumb is that while they got transfomred into old-man form by the NK's fingernail, they are all mentally 0-15 years old
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May 2, 2019 21:38
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Vehementi posted:What if the reason all the other white walkers are dumb is that while they got transfomred into old-man form by the NK's fingernail, they are all mentally 0-15 years old Plus they were made of incest babies
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May 2, 2019 21:41
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:They didn't lure poo poo. He fell out of the sky and then Dany saw him. It was dumb luck. Bran warged into ravens and flew over where the NK was. At that point the NK visibly reacted to sensing the presence of his biggest target and got kited over to the battle area where Jim and Pam could engage him. I’m counting it. I’ll admit I have no idea what Bran was doing the rest of the time but idk if we need an explanation beyond he was keeping an eye on what all was going on with the battle. The alternative would seem to be sitting there waiting to see if the NK wandered into his normal human field of view. Thermos H Christ fucked around with this message at 21:49 on May 2, 2019 |
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May 2, 2019 21:43
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Dr. Video Games 0112 posted:They state in the post-episode commentary that they always planned it to be Arya for 3~ years I think. Which would have been season 6-7 It's nice of them to say they are just winging it.
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May 2, 2019 21:49
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Thermos H Christ posted:Brann warged into ravens and flew over where the NK was. At that point the NK visibly reacted to sensing the presence of his biggest target and got kited over to the battle area where Jim and Pam could engage him. I’m counting it. That's a very generous interpretation of the events. The raven warging happened a good 20 minutes and multiple scenes before the NK fell from the sky.
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May 2, 2019 21:50
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I just watched the birds scene, he does not visibly react to them. He raises is hand up, but my interpretation based on the next shot is that he was commanding the undead to start walking into the trench. But that could be coincidence and they just did it on their own, and his hand gesture was him "reaching out to find Bran" or some poo poo. Or maybe he made the zombies go into the fire because he now knew where Bran was
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May 2, 2019 21:53
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etalian posted:Excuse me everyone here is my brilliant strategy for winning the battle You know the number of people that work on the show that are from the U.K. there is just no way some of them are not getting down on whichever version of TW they prefer. I mean I get you're joking, but I think you're also underestimating the meta here, they knew what they were doing. Some of these, especially YT dudes they wear a Napoleonic hat at home and at work type of situation with no irony. Thermos H Christ posted:Bran warged into ravens and flew over where the NK was. At that point the NK visibly reacted to sensing the presence of his biggest target and got kited over to the battle area where Jim and Pam could engage him. I’m counting it. Yeah, maybe it was just a visual dark mess and no one has any clue what the gently caress was happening. Since there is not much left to the story, instead of theorizing about what will happen, we can craft entire elaborate theories on what we saw on screen! Dr. Video Games 0112 fucked around with this message at 22:02 on May 2, 2019 |
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May 2, 2019 21:58
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:That's a very generous interpretation of the events. The raven warging happened a good 20 minutes and multiple scenes before the NK fell from the sky. I mean the plan was always “use Bran to draw out the NK.” We see the ravens fly right up next to the NK, who reacts and reaches out his hand as if feeling for something. And indeed he shows up where they can engage him. What other interpretation makes sense? E: It definitely would have helped if most of this was not going on in darkness enveloped in snow/fog/clouds/smoke that strains compression algorithms and most TV panels to the breaking point. I bet it’d look great uncompressed on a 4K digital movie projector in a dark theater but that is not most people’s viewing experience and somehow most TV shows manage to film in a way where you can see wtf is going on with even subpar consumer-grade equipment. Thermos H Christ fucked around with this message at 22:21 on May 2, 2019 |
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May 2, 2019 22:04
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Thermos H Christ posted:I mean the plan was always “use Bran to draw out the NK.” We see the ravens fly right up next to the NK, who reacts and reaches out his hand as if feeling for something. And indeed he shows up where they can engage him. What other interpretation makes sense? If that was their intention, they hosed up real bad. The Night King doesn't even react to them at all. If he was supposed to be reacting to the ravens / Bran, he could have at least turned his head or done something to indicate that. Instead it looks like the ravens just passed by him as he was simply adapting to the trench of fire. The previous scene was the lighting of the trench, then you get ravens flying over the battlefield and they pass by the Night King who commands them to start crossing the fire. Also good god that scene was even darker than I remember.
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May 2, 2019 22:13
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Groovelord Neato posted:the boys reciting the night's watch oath as the giant comes barreling towards the gate is one of my favorite scenes. This reminds me, Theon's death would've been ten times better if he yelled "What is dead may never die!" when he charged the Nightman. e: Also, Miltos owns for that tweet.
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May 2, 2019 22:13
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Away all Goats posted:
Euron the designated character destroyer is going to do it on a good chunk of the leftover characters.
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May 2, 2019 22:18
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this gets me so loving pumped. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtI7-aLhn8Y AND ALL THE NIGHTS TO COME
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May 2, 2019 22:25
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ruddiger posted:This reminds me, Theon's death would've been ten times better if he yelled "What is dead may never die!" when he charged the Nightman. Idk if that’s the best rallying cry when you’re fighting dead guys also this was the close of his whole arc where he finally knows who he is and where he belongs - the Starks are his real family, not the Ironborn he was trying so hard to be when he hosed everything up. Thermos H Christ fucked around with this message at 22:31 on May 2, 2019 |
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May 2, 2019 22:29
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Thermos H Christ posted:Idk if that’s the best rallying cry when you’re fighting dead guys I assume the Starks are going to have a nice funeral for him; at least I hope so
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May 2, 2019 22:44
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gonna rule when they march south and come across beric at a bonfire.
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May 2, 2019 22:45
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:If that was their intention, they hosed up real bad. The Night King doesn't even react to them at all. If he was supposed to be reacting to the ravens / Bran, he could have at least turned his head or done something to indicate that. Instead it looks like the ravens just passed by him as he was simply adapting to the trench of fire. The previous scene was the lighting of the trench, then you get ravens flying over the battlefield and they pass by the Night King who commands them to start crossing the fire. Bran clearly was warged for a very long time... longer than just flying up to the NK so I'm guessing that was a little bit of a misdirect. Or that was part of it and we are going to be shown what his warging was up to the rest of the time. I assumed he was assisting Arya in some form or another.
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May 2, 2019 22:57
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You couldn’t see but she was being carried through the air by ravens
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May 2, 2019 23:05
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Bran's warged into all the zombies that were just about the kill all the main characters and tripped them up so Jamie could survive lefthanded for 45 minutes
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May 2, 2019 23:07
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ha ha king's landing is where king tommen splatted on the ground and winterfell is where the king of winter fell 
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May 2, 2019 23:14
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crazy cloud posted:ha ha king's landing is where king tommen splatted on the ground and winterfell is where the king of winter fell Time to knock the dust off this ol' thing 
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May 2, 2019 23:21
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I did like that Jon was at least right on top of Viserion as soon as NK decided to have some blue fire fun. What must have been going through Rhaegal's head at that moment.
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May 2, 2019 23:28
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Groovelord Neato posted:this gets me so loving pumped. Wun Wun going wrecking ball on the traitors was another good moment.
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May 2, 2019 23:29
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the arya thing would have been fine and funny if she'd faceless man'd herself into one of the night kings lieutenants and stabbed him in the back or something
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May 2, 2019 23:35
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Thermos H Christ posted:Idk if that’s the best rallying cry when you’re fighting dead guys yeah but it sounds cool 
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May 2, 2019 23:35
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crazy cloud posted:ha ha king's landing is where king tommen splatted on the ground and winterfell is where the king of winter fell 
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May 2, 2019 23:39
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