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FBS
Apr 27, 2015

The real fun of living wisely is that you get to be smug about it.

https://twitter.com/JSOPIO/status/1124506148256743424

https://twitter.com/ethanklapper/status/1124506965852475392

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MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

FuturePastNow posted:

I'm quoting myself, want to fight about it

Because it turns out there actually is one airworthy privately-owned F-4 Phantom, and it's for sale:

https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/24850533/1959-mcdonnell-douglas-f4h-1f

At the low low price of $3,950,000.

There are at least two. The Collings Foundation has one as well.

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


MrYenko posted:

There are at least two. The Collings Foundation has one as well.

Ah, so they're lying about that, too (this isn't the plane that set the low-altitude speed record like the listing claims).

e.pilot
Nov 20, 2011

sometimes maybe good
sometimes maybe shit

Ardeem posted:

Still boggles my mind that this bastard was supposed to run on coal.

Nazi aeronautics research :allears:

Mach 2+ on coal


TheFluff posted:

You are welcome to admit that you were wrong at any time.

To reiterate, you claimed this about an aircraft with negative static pitch stability:


This is fundamentally untrue and I don't think you understand what static pitch stability even means. If such an aircraft is flying in a turn with a constant AoA and the slope of the pitching moment curve is indeed positive at that particular AoA, it will constantly strive to increase that AoA, and the pilot (or the flight control system) will constantly need to counteract that using the control surfaces. You'd have to maintain forward pressure on the stick to maintain the turn. An aircraft with positive static stability works the exact opposite.

If you still think the above description is wrong, please write another wonderful story to convince me. Again, I can and will die on this hill. I'm not just an autistic sperg, I'm going to be an rear end in a top hat about it too.

To clarify: I have an aviation degree, am a flight instructor, an ATP, and have been in and around the industry for nearly a decade. I'd argue I've forgotten more about aviation than you've probably ever known. Go ahead and die on your hill of kerbal and internet research semantics, you're not worth my time.

e.pilot fucked around with this message at 07:06 on May 4, 2019

Humphreys
Jan 26, 2013

We conceived a way to use my mother as a porn mule


I was going through some old photos of my travels and found this of an RAAF DC-3 in the Lae Botanical Gardens (Papua New Guinea).

Funnily enough I was in the country as a photographer but the only photos I have are from my lovely 1st gen android phone:



Just did some googling and heres some info about it:

quote:

Dakota A65-122 was purchased from the USAAF for the price of $180,000 and delivered on 4 July 1945. From 1947, the aircraft was allocated to No 86 Wing and flew with No 36 and 38 Squadrons from RAAF Bases Schofields, Richmond and Canberra. During this time, it probably flew some of the Japan Courier flights and flights to PNG.

From Feb 1967 until June 1980, the aircraft served with Transport Support Flight, Butterworth Malaysia, where it flew missions to South Vietnam and other countries in SE Asia.

http://laebotanicgardens.com/history/raaf-dc-3/

Also It's been 9 years since I was there and only just realised while writing up this post there is an Amelia Earhart Memorial a few blocks south from where I took that lovely photo.

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE

e.pilot posted:

To clarify: I have an aviation degree, am a flight instructor, an ATP, and have been in and around the industry for nearly a decade. I'd argue I've forgotten more about aviation than you've probably ever known. Go ahead and die on your hill of kerbal and internet research semantics, you're not worth my time.
You sure as hell seem to have forgotten the important bits since in your first post you claimed that dynamic instability is what makes the F-16 maneuverable. I'm still not convinced you even understand what I'm talking about since you keep repeating "unstable = maneuverable" as if it meant something. All I want is to discuss the specific kind of instability is desirable. Like, I can instantly tell vessbot understands the argument and that he almost certainly understands the principles better than I do (and thanks vessbot for your corrections and nuances and for responding seriously to all my poo poo), but I don't think I've seen you use a single precise term in this whole discussion.

Make a technical loving argument, gently caress! I want to learn something! Stop loving quoting Wikipedia and introductory texts and your loving resume at me.

Ola
Jul 19, 2004

TheFluff posted:

I want to learn something!

No you don't, you want to splain something from a low point on the Dunning–Kruger curve.

TheFluff posted:

All I want is to discuss the specific kind of instability is desirable.

Explained multiple times, ignored by you every time. e.pilot wrote a great post that even included historical context and motivation and your gracious response was:

TheFluff posted:

Unstable still isn't the word I prefer though?

And you still don't want actual negative stability, it doesn't help.

The last sentence is particularly annoying, since multiple times it has been explained to you that negative stability is a side effect of the traits that provide maneuverability (two sides of the same coin), side effects that were acceptable as soon as computers could handle it. You just cruise past that every time.

You're dead on your hill now, RIP.

Vorkosigan
Mar 28, 2012


thesurlyspringKAA posted:

What museum is this that just has a big ol swastika flag hanging up?

Military Aviation Museum in Virginia Beach.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

TheFluff posted:

You sure as hell seem to have forgotten the important bits since in your first post you claimed that dynamic instability is what makes the F-16 maneuverable. I'm still not convinced you even understand what I'm talking about since you keep repeating "unstable = maneuverable" as if it meant something. All I want is to discuss the specific kind of instability is desirable. Like, I can instantly tell vessbot understands the argument and that he almost certainly understands the principles better than I do (and thanks vessbot for your corrections and nuances and for responding seriously to all my poo poo), but I don't think I've seen you use a single precise term in this whole discussion.

Make a technical loving argument, gently caress! I want to learn something! Stop loving quoting Wikipedia and introductory texts and your loving resume at me.

dude shut the gently caress up this is extremely tedious

smooth jazz
May 13, 2010

Phy posted:

YVR to HKG, so, yeah

If possible take CX855 A350, it still has humane 3x3x3 EY seating.

vessbot
Jun 17, 2005
I don't like you because you're dangerous

TheFluff posted:




The static stability is actually negative locally at low AoA, and that does help with initiating a pitch change rapidly (if you're starting at that low AoA), but at higher AoA (which is when you actually want as little trim as possible) the curve is almost flat - it's neutral stability.


I missed this from before. Instead of breaking down into vague "low" and "high" AOA regimes, look at the actual scale in degrees. The negative stability region is until 25 degrees, which is the whole normal flight regime of the plane (the FBW has a built in limiter of 25) so everything to the right of that doesn't matter as it is unreachable.

So you should cut the whole gung ho act and accept what everyone else is saying, that negative stability is beneficial and designed into planes; it's right there in your graph. (If your argument is about just how much negative it takes to get out of "relaxed" and into plain old negative, then it's about nailing down the arbitrary border of a qualitative description, which is uninteresting other than the interest of preserving your pride by having that border leave your previously planted flag on the good side. It's a number, it describes what it describes, and that's that. Might as well fight over what RGB value divides blue from purple.)

And everyone rule should cut out the exasperated drama queen act, there have been plenty of misunderstandings and equivocations and plain old whoppingly wrong things on both sides.

vessbot fucked around with this message at 15:34 on May 4, 2019

tactlessbastard
Feb 4, 2001

Godspeed, post
Fun Shoe

I remember back in the 90s Trade-a-Plane always had ads in it for MiG-15s, delivered in a crate for $40,000.

Mao Zedong Thot
Oct 16, 2008


KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

dude shut the gently caress up this is extremely tedious

Humphreys
Jan 26, 2013

We conceived a way to use my mother as a porn mule


KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

dude shut the gently caress up this is extremely tedious

Shhhh, I'm busy reading a Janes book.

On the Cheapo MIG, I really missed out when Peter Brocks estate (I'm assuming it was them - how many people in Central QLD have a MIG let alone enough teeth to smile for the licence) starting doing MIG joy flights back home.

Humphreys fucked around with this message at 16:20 on May 4, 2019

e.pilot
Nov 20, 2011

sometimes maybe good
sometimes maybe shit

tactlessbastard posted:

I remember back in the 90s Trade-a-Plane always had ads in it for MiG-15s, delivered in a crate for $40,000.

That’s like how cheap L39s are, then a quick look at the operating costs and...oh :smith:

Tsuru
May 12, 2008
Av/post game on point.

I too enjoy two Scandinavians trying to out-sperg each other

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

I was going to post photos but y'know what? Just look at my pinterest. It's a slightly more handy way to collect cool airplane photos.

Psion
Dec 13, 2002

eVeN I KnOw wHaT CoRnEr gAs iS
well I saw a whole lot of unread posts and then I started reading them and then I lost consciousness and now I'm at the end of the thread and all I can think of is this thread where weightlifters argue over how many days there are in a week: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=107926751

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Psion posted:

well I saw a whole lot of unread posts and then I started reading them and then I lost consciousness and now I'm at the end of the thread and all I can think of is this thread where weightlifters argue over how many days there are in a week: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=107926751

Also available in video form! https://youtu.be/eECjjLNAOd4

Phy
Jun 27, 2008



Fun Shoe

PittTheElder posted:

Also available in video form! https://youtu.be/eECjjLNAOd4

Jon Bois is a treasure.

Nerobro
Nov 4, 2005

Rider now with 100% more titanium!

TheFluff posted:

What you actually want (and what I understand the F-16 to have) is neutral stability (or relaxed stability, if you want). If you have a better source than Wikipedia that says I'm wrong I'd love to see it, and I'd especially like to see a static stability diagram (pitching moment as a function of AoA).
The F-16 is dynamically unstable at low airspeeds, it's not relaxed, like you might find on a Pits special, or a Extra 300. Above mach, the F-16 becomes dynamically stable as the CoL moves. and other parts of the airframe start mattering more.

I wish I could find my direct source for that.

Also worth noting, is a lot of planes will have a "stable" configuration, that's just not the desired one. Like.. pancaked flat against the incoming airstream, or even backwards.

Arson Daily
Aug 11, 2003

I once listened to two instructors argue for hours over whether cowl flaps created more induced or parasitic drag. I should have known then to pick a less autistic field to go into, like high end stereo review.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS

Arson Daily posted:

I once listened to two instructors argue for hours over whether cowl flaps created more induced or parasitic drag. I should have known then to pick a less autistic field to go into, like high end stereo review.

Induced, clearly.

vessbot
Jun 17, 2005
I don't like you because you're dangerous

Nerobro posted:

The F-16 is dynamically unstable at low airspeeds, it's not relaxed, like you might find on a Pits special, or a Extra 300. Above mach, the F-16 becomes dynamically stable as the CoL moves. and other parts of the airframe start mattering more.

http://www.codeonemagazine.com/article.html?item_id=37

Here is Lockheed's official magazine quoting the F-16's chief designer referring to its stability as "relaxed" multiple times.

https://www.codeonemagazine.com/article.html?item_id=23

And another article

https://www.codeonemagazine.com/article.html?item_id=131

And another one

If you sum up all the sources together, "relaxed" stability seems to mean "around neutral to slightly negative"

Also the word you're looking for is "static" and not "dynamic."

vessbot fucked around with this message at 23:25 on May 4, 2019

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Phy posted:

Jon Bois is a treasure.

He’s only gotten better since he moved his content to SB Nation too.

Big Mean Jerk
Jan 27, 2009

Well, of course I know him.
He's me.

Arson Daily posted:

I once listened to two instructors argue for hours over whether cowl flaps created more induced or parasitic drag. I should have known then to pick a less autistic field to go into, like high end stereo review.

My god man, do you know what you’ve just done?

e.pilot
Nov 20, 2011

sometimes maybe good
sometimes maybe shit

Arson Daily posted:

I once listened to two instructors argue for hours over whether cowl flaps created more induced or parasitic drag. I should have known then to pick a less autistic field to go into, like high end stereo review.

:getout:

Arson Daily
Aug 11, 2003

Big Mean Jerk posted:

My god man, do you know what you’ve just done?

:unsmigghh:

KodiakRS
Jul 11, 2012

:stonk:
If a 747 is on a treadmill that matches it's speed can it take off on the 8th day of the week if the dynamically unstable headphone jack for the IFE is plated in gold?

If you don't know you should try asking over here: https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/airline-pilot-forums/

Finger Prince
Jan 5, 2007


KodiakRS posted:

If a 747 is on a treadmill that matches it's speed can it take off on the 8th day of the week if the dynamically unstable headphone jack for the IFE is plated in gold?

If you don't know you should try asking over here: https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/airline-pilot-forums/

Depends on what kind of oil it uses?
Anyway that completely ignores the important question of how much CO2 was emitted in the construction of it vs. an A380.

Ola
Jul 19, 2004

KodiakRS posted:

the 8th day of the week

Why not just say Monday?

Tsuru
May 12, 2008

Platystemon posted:

Induced, clearly.

In what world do cowl flaps create induced drag? Assuming they're the classic type surrounding a radial engine of course...

vvv :(

Tsuru fucked around with this message at 15:57 on May 5, 2019

vessbot
Jun 17, 2005
I don't like you because you're dangerous

Tsuru posted:

In what world do cowl flaps create induced drag? Assuming they're the classic type surrounding a radial engine of course...

He's kidding

e.pilot
Nov 20, 2011

sometimes maybe good
sometimes maybe shit
On a P51 the air through the cowl makes thrust. :v:

slidebite
Nov 6, 2005

Good egg
:colbert:

Back from PTY. I've never had so many problems with flights as that trip. Ugh. Between a blizzard in YYC, storms in IAH that had us sit on the runway for 1hr+ waiting for a gate to open and made our 6:30AM flight not leave until 11:30 the next day, and aircraft in PTY that couldn't start blocking access to the taxiway, good times.

Anyhow, this trip reminded me I could really use a decent set of noise cancelling headphones for the IFE. The airline supplied buds do little more than hurt my ears.

Since I don't really use headphones for my personal electronics, 3.5MM input, or at least option, would be best for plugging into the IFE. Any recommendations that aren't horrifically expensive?

Kerrow
Mar 18, 2011

ZERO-G HERO
https://twitter.com/TomPodolec/status/1125077708181049344

:stare:

The Real Amethyst
Apr 20, 2018

When no one was looking, Serval took forty Japari buns. She took 40 buns. That's as many as four tens. And that's terrible.
I'm the big airport truck not running survivors over.

slidebite
Nov 6, 2005

Good egg
:colbert:

Holy poo poo. Glad it seems like it was about as good of an ending as possible.

Also, gently caress everyone that doesn't abandon their carry-ons on evacuation.

Syncopated
Oct 21, 2010

yikes

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priznat
Jul 7, 2009

Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.
Obvious but still :(

Pets Presumed Dead in Boeing 737 That Bounced off Runway in Florida

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