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R. Guyovich posted:there is no score, at most there is a blacklist for non-payers of debt (with hardship exemptions). you know this as well as i do so stop being obtuse. There are several blacklists in effect and they apply to much larger range of issues than non-payment of debt. The blacklists in question were developed for and are a part of the (still not fully implemented) national social credit system. I am assuming you saw mention of the Judgement Defaulter List, assumed it was for defaulting on debts, and promptly stopped reading and started posting about what other posters “knew”. https://www.chinalawtranslate.com/en/social-credit-overview-podcast/ “Now, I’ve found that the best way to introduce social credit is to focus on three different aspects. The first of these is the financial aspect: financial credit similar to what happens in a lot of countries in the world. The second is a regulatory scheme, and this involves blacklists for various violations of laws and legal obligations; and the third is an educational component where the government is hoping to instill the values of trustworthiness in the population. The most famous one of these and the most commonly used that’s affected millions of people is the courts’ list which is often confused as being the entire social credit system. I call it the Judgment Defaulters list it’s the 失信被?行人 list, and what it means is that these are people who have an active court judgment against them. So the court has made that standard- if you have a court judgment against and you have the ability to act on it and are refusing to do so, then you get put on the courts’ list and other organizations in an MoU have agreed to enforce restrictions on high-spending. And this is where most of the penalties we’ve heard of as being part of the Social Credit System come into play. The restrictions on airplanes the better-quality trains etc are all part of this and having a judgment against you from a court could mean that you lost a civil lawsuit it could also mean that you have an administrative penalty and then the administrative agency went to the court for enforcement.” https://www.chinalawtranslate.com/en/easy-as-abc/ “The judgment defaulter list is an example of the main mechanism of the social credit system. A number of governmental agencies in key fields such as food safety, travel, and the courts, were tasked with creating blacklist systems (and warning lists called ‘key scrutiny lists’) for certain legal violations under their authority.” R. Guyovich posted:the one guy quoted here is the sole source for most of these articles and his story changes every time. in any case nothing in there contradicts what i've said. try harder! As it happens, Jeremy Daum also discusses Liu Hu. He does not indicate this guy’s story has been changing like you seem to be implying, but that media reports contained inaccuracies. While the worst of what happened to him had nothing to do with social credit (including being held and interrogated/tortured for a minor offense for a year) note that he ended up on the Judgement Defaulter List (see: part of the Social Credit System) following a later civil suit in which he was ordered to post an apology on his blog and to pay minor damages. https://www.chinalawtranslate.com/en/easy-as-abc/ “Unfortunately, even after Liu Hu had paid the award, he remained on the list. This time, the problem was his refusal to make the apology.” R. Guyovich posted:yeah so this is the other thing those media outlets do, putting together a bunch of local and private permutations and pretending it's a unified system. congratulations on being stupid enough to believe that i guess! We are not these nebulous media outlets and nobody here claimed Sesame Credit or whatever was responsible for travel bans and the like that were posted as examples. Elements of the national social credit system are already in effect, though, including the aforementioned blacklists and some (largely toothless) warning lists. https://www.chinalawtranslate.com/en/seeing-chinese-social-credit-through-a-glass-darkly/ “One blacklist, aimed at individuals and organizations alike, deserves special attention because it is already fully effective, has the most sensational repercussions, and has been incorrectly linked with Sesame Credit in some articles. This is the courts’ list of judgment defaulters. The list includes those who have a final court judgment against them, have the ability to perform on it, and have failed to do so. Through massive coordination of various government ministries and departments, anyone on the list has restrictions placed on their consumer spending. There are limits on buying airplane tickets, fancier train tickets, private school education, entertainment, and so forth. [If you haven’t before, you should check it out ] To get on the list, though, there must be an effective court judgment against you. That means you have lost a lawsuit and exhausted or waived all appeals. You must also have failed to perform on the judgment against you and had this failure to perform again documented at court. You can get off the list by performing on the judgment. [We’ve translated the rules here.]” R. Guyovich posted:no, they wouldn't. the whole narrative is about a centralized system that, again, doesn't exist. you are still stupid, congratulations! Nobody here said a black-mirror-esque all-encompassing system existed. That is phrasing you took from the first few lines of Jeremy Daum’s 2017 article in which he references a Wired article. If you want to go argue with Wired I’m sure there a comments section you can go do that on. You should probably try responding to the things the posters you reply to posted, not inaccuracies in random Wired articles. R. Guyovich posted:this would be a very effective dismissal if the western press didn't literally characterize it as a real life sci-fi story. in fact i encourage you to search "social credit black mirror." I also encourage people to read Jeremy’s 2017 article on China Law Translate you keep referencing. Not just google it and read the first few lines like you apparently did, but to actually read the article. It explained pretty handily why you (and some media reports) are wrong, after all! Warbadger fucked around with this message at 01:25 on May 2, 2019 |
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May 2, 2019 01:14
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It's a shame we don't have a single thread discussing America in DnD, the only place we have left to discuss America is the China thread.
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May 2, 2019 02:03
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enjoy your re-education camp, warbadger
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May 2, 2019 02:34
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Warbadger posted:He didn’t say there was a score and his point is not contingent on a score. Neither did Amergin, for that matter. The rest of what you say here is false. I will use Jeremy Daum’s material to demonstrate your ignorance, because I appreciate the irony of you linking his work and because I can't bothered to put too much effort into replying to a child transparently posting in bad faith. i'm not gonna go line-by-line and respond to this tripe. people have made the comparisons to black mirror, it wasn't just one wired article, it was dozens at the very least (search "social credit black mirror" as i said) and you are doing the exact disingenuous reading of my posts you claim i do with others. i mentioned the courts and debts both. posting a big wall of text with the occasional accusation of childish behavior or bad faith doesn't automatically make you an authority on this matter, or any other. liu hu's story has changed. again, search the name and social credit and read the stories to see how different the accounts are in each one.
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May 2, 2019 02:48
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Guyovitch has been perfectly clear about what he means in this thread. If you’re going to compare it to the Black Mirror episode, and it’s not exactly like the Black Mirror episode, you’re wrong.
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May 2, 2019 04:00
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Did the words "black mirror" appear in this thread before Guyovich said them? He's really ferociously attacking this strawman. I feel bad for Charlie Brooker
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May 2, 2019 05:16
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Bloodnose posted:Did the words "black mirror" appear in this thread before Guyovich said them? I’m not sure that’s relevant
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May 2, 2019 05:31
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Pirate Radar posted:Guyovitch has been perfectly clear about what he means in this thread. If you’re going to compare it to the Black Mirror episode, and it’s not exactly like the Black Mirror episode, you’re wrong. i mean you can read the things i linked and even the big long post that doesn't actually refute anything i've said to see the characterizations itt and elsewhere are way off-base. but it's the usual suspects here anyway so it's not like things actually matter
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May 2, 2019 06:29
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Bloodnose posted:Did the words "black mirror" appear in this thread before Guyovich said them? He's really ferociously attacking this strawman. I feel bad for Charlie Brooker No comment on the current discussion but yeah, 100%. Here and elsewhere. On every subject that may relate tangentially to an integrated circuit, or possibly levers and pulleys somewhere. On the bright side Orwell and Huxley get to carry less load on their rhetorical shoulders 
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May 2, 2019 07:45
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Man huawei is really getting thrown under the bus https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/05/02/cisco_vulnerabilities/
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May 2, 2019 08:53
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It's going to be interesting looking back on previous discussions on the subject of the social credit system after we reach a suitable standard of obviousness about the breadth and ramifications of it.
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May 2, 2019 09:23
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Kavros posted:It's going to be interesting looking back on previous discussions on the subject of the social credit system after we reach a suitable standard of obviousness about the breadth and ramifications of it. at least numerous people aren’t on record discussing it or anything
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May 2, 2019 09:24
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Everyone is in their own dillusion. Groups in this forum have been wrong many times. This has never stopped anyone.
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May 4, 2019 01:14
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R. Guyovich posted:and you are doing the exact disingenuous reading of my posts you claim i do with others. The way you act like such a stereotype, what else do you expect people to do? How do you want to be read, I'm really not following.
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May 4, 2019 04:14
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Trump has really great political appointees. I'm glad she got shot down by the director of the Brooking Instution's China Center. And the career PD FSOs wouldn't even comment on what she said.
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May 4, 2019 05:14
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:Kiron Skinner, the State Department's director of policy planning, said at the Future Security Forum that challenging "the long-term threat" of China is difficult because the country is "not Caucasian" Very solid wisdom from a person named after the dumb words on the screen when you’re watching cable news
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May 4, 2019 05:25
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What the gently caress. How much she paid for her job?
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May 4, 2019 05:35
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tino posted:What the gently caress. How much she paid for her job? Given that they arent charging her to hold the job, too much.
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May 4, 2019 12:42
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I expect Trump got confused and thought he was appointing a literal chyron to that position
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May 4, 2019 13:27
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Today is officially the 100th anniversary of the May 4th Movement!
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May 4, 2019 18:53
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Grouchio posted:Today is officially the 100th anniversary of the May 4th Movement! But Star Wars came out in '77, so it's only been 42 years!
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May 4, 2019 19:46
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Grapplejack posted:But Star Wars came out in '77, so it's only been 42 years! But All Star first came on the radio in ‘99, so it’s only been 20 years!
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May 5, 2019 03:10
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Stars were first discovered 5000 years ago by Shang dynasty astronomers actually
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May 5, 2019 06:03
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How could they be, when they were invented by Zhuge Liang?
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May 5, 2019 07:31
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Everyone knows that the stars were discovered when they fell out of a mulberry tree into the Emperor Lao Tzu’s pot of boiling water. He found it delicious and refreshing. 🙄
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May 8, 2019 11:09
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:Kiron Skinner, the State Department's director of policy planning, said at the Future Security Forum that challenging "the long-term threat" of China is difficult because the country is "not Caucasian" This would seem silly at first blush, but taking a look at it...I mean, we here in the US at least understand the motivations and actions of 'white' countries. The projection of white nations' power and hegemony has followed a pretty straightforward ethno-supremacist bent over the last couple hundred years (at least). China doesn't seem to want to play that same game in just the same way. Isn't part of that ethnically dervied? I mean Han Chinese are a type of people and well... And plus, aren't we about 18 or so years deep in thinking that two huge countries in the middle east would totally adopt mild mannered modern (white) American living if we just cut the heads off their governments and didn't have a plan for what came next? Yeah. I mean: quote:"When we think about the Soviet Union in that competition [the Cold War], in a way, it was a fight within the Western family," she said. "This is a fight with a really different civilization, and a different ideology, and the United States hasn't had that before. Nor has it had an economic competitor the way that we have. The Soviet Union was a country with nuclear weapons and the Red Army but a backwards economy. That is not unreasonable.
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May 8, 2019 16:18
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Lads what's with the whole 'only ever being brought hot water in restaurants'. That is not refreshing after a day in the Shanghai heat!
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May 8, 2019 16:31
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ThomasPaine posted:Lads what's with the whole 'only ever being brought hot water in restaurants'. That is not refreshing after a day in the Shanghai heat! Ask for cold water?
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May 8, 2019 17:04
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TyroneGoldstein posted:That is not unreasonable. Framing the economic competition between the US and China as a race war is not unreasonable? CAPS LOCK BROKEN fucked around with this message at 21:06 on May 8, 2019 |
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May 8, 2019 17:08
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GlassEye-Boy posted:Ask for cold water? I just meant as default. Seems a strange cultural quirk that makes zero sense for the climate.
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May 8, 2019 17:15
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sincx fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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May 8, 2019 17:16
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"the Cold War wasn't about economic and ideological competition" is a monumentally stupid take lmao
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May 8, 2019 17:47
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GlassEye-Boy posted:Ask for cold water? lol
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May 8, 2019 17:51
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ThomasPaine posted:I just meant as default. Seems a strange cultural quirk that makes zero sense for the climate. In TCM the stomach is like a furnace so if you drink cold things, ever, your stomach will be destroyed. It's one of those things everyone was warned about by a grandparent or parent and never questioned it. You can ask for cold water or beverages but don't be surprised if they think you're crazy.
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May 8, 2019 20:55
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i grew up drinking hot or room temperature water because it's better for the vocal cords. when i ask for hot water here or say i prefer it people wig out
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May 11, 2019 13:48
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Also the USSR was absolutely seen as not Western at the time.
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May 11, 2019 20:02
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R. Guyovich posted:i grew up drinking hot or room temperature water because it's better for the vocal cords. when i ask for hot water here or say i prefer it people wig out Why stop at water though? Just throw some leaves in there and suddenly it's tea and less weird.
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May 11, 2019 20:17
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Raenir Salazar posted:Also the USSR was absolutely seen as not Western at the time. Some Americans didn’t even see Russians as white people
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May 12, 2019 02:35
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There is this weird debate on where slavic people fall, yes.
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May 12, 2019 04:11
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