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shrike82 posted:I'm pretty curious about the performance of AMD hardware for next gen consoles - I'm guessing 4K60 is out of the question? Which honestly at typical viewing distances (something like 12ft or more) that sort of upscaling with a ~60" 4K TV won't actually look all that bad during actual gameplay. Yeah close up side by side freeze frame screenshots will let you tell the difference without trouble but most just don't sit all that close enough to the TV to benefit much from 4K with typical TV sizes. Yes I know, positive talk of upscaling is generally considered to be heresy, but the "better pixels instead of more pixels" approach can still give quite a bit more of visual effects wow and eye candy pop to make a difference. Most PC gamers sit within ~3-2ft of the screen which is probably why they tend to notice and care more about the resolution differences and upscaling doesn't work so well for them.
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May 4, 2019 13:28
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PC LOAD LETTER posted:Only way they'll pull off 4K @ 60fps is with scaling up from 1080p-1200p resolution. The bandwidth and GPU requirements are just too high for a native 4K @ 60fps console to be sellable even by late 2020 for typical console prices. I think by "late 2020s" he was meaning closer to 10 years from now, not next year. That is a good 2-3 generations down the line, I could believe 4k/60 native would be within reach of consoles by then.
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May 4, 2019 13:48
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Honestly if they could get consistent 1080p60 across the board with dips into relatively consistent 4k30, it would be a good look. Of course they are going to want to add a ton of bells and whistles like Sony’s discussed 8k “support” and ray tracing to differentiate, but high quality visuals at a consistent frame rate would be a great benchmark for a console priced hardware to hit.
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May 4, 2019 14:07
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PC LOAD LETTER posted:Which honestly at typical viewing distances (something like 12ft or more) Were you an Xbox executive around the 2013 time frame?
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May 4, 2019 14:16
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Indiana_Krom posted:I think by "late 2020s" He was referring to nex gen consoles not "late 2020's" consoles. I did say "late 2020" (which is the expected time frame for nex gen console launch AFAIK) but that is a very different thing from what you're thinking I said. karoshi posted:Were you an Xbox executive around the 2013 time frame?
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May 4, 2019 14:50
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PC dynamic resolution has a long way to go; every implementation I've seen sucks and lets it hit %100 gpu usage (and thus spiking frames) before it reacts. PC games need to let you set a maximum GPU usage % to get the most of it and ensure actual consistent performance
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May 4, 2019 16:47
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:PC dynamic resolution has a long way to go; every implementation I've seen sucks and lets it hit %100 gpu usage (and thus spiking frames) before it reacts. PC games need to let you set a maximum GPU usage % to get the most of it and ensure actual consistent performance Your solution with limiting usage percent seems very smart why isn't that implemented Worf fucked around with this message at 17:54 on May 4, 2019 |
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May 4, 2019 17:04
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PC LOAD LETTER posted:I think you misread. Errr, sorry, thought you were replying to a different post that did say late 2020s... Yeah, its not happening at all in the next gen.
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May 4, 2019 17:39
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Statutory Ape posted:Your solution with limiting usage percent seems very smart why isn't that implemented Naive prediction, like knowing this area is empty so we can hardcode it to start in 4k or knowing this area will struggle for frames so we hardcode 1080p is a practical approach. If you know rendering a certain number of viewable models is likely too intense you could switch based on that too. It's likely abstractable to to CPU frame time, render time, and full frame time and then you can adapt from those - but you'll still get dips. There are options, but it's likely just not a priority. Most people don't have 4k, people who do 4k often have a TV setup too far to even really benefit from it, and 1080p looks great on a 4k device. Overall, you're gaining very little for a decent amount of extra work. The industry approach is to wait for GPU technology to catch up and then not have to deal with any of this. Khorne fucked around with this message at 19:17 on May 4, 2019 |
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May 4, 2019 18:37
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Statutory Ape posted:Your solution with limiting usage percent seems very smart why isn't that implemented Because you can't bank GPU cycles. Edit: what Khorne said. Reactive downscaling is never going to be amazing and trying to do predictive downscaling for hugely variable target hardware seems like way too much work for very little gain. Arzachel fucked around with this message at 18:44 on May 4, 2019 |
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May 4, 2019 18:41
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Titanfall 2 does it by frametime-render time disparity and it only works with a framerate limit precisely due to that (not limiting framerate effectively disables dynamic resolution)
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May 4, 2019 18:52
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PC LOAD LETTER posted:
Twelve feet or more? Just how loving big are houses and apartments in America?
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May 4, 2019 18:54
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KKKLIP ART posted:Honestly if they could get consistent 1080p60 across the board with dips into relatively consistent 4k30, it would be a good look. Of course they are going to want to add a ton of bells and whistles like Sony’s discussed 8k “support” and ray tracing to differentiate, but high quality visuals at a consistent frame rate would be a great benchmark for a console priced hardware to hit. Considering the absolutely massive jump in CPU performance the next gen consoles are gonna have I think 1080p60 should be doable.
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May 4, 2019 19:04
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Mister Facetious posted:Twelve feet or more? Not babby sized. The average american is a lot wealthier than the average european, and housing also tends to cost a lot less because most residential areas are <100 years old instead of >500. It flips the other way in NYC and SF which are some of the most expensive places to live in the world, but the US population is much less urban than europe in general. Australia is the same way, huge country, lots of room, not as urban = giant houses cuz why not?
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May 4, 2019 19:08
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Mister Facetious posted:Twelve feet or more? Here is a fairly typical floor plan for a ~1,400 sq ft home for instance. Note the size of the combined living room, dining area, and kitchen. Other rooms, besides the master bedroom, tend to be fairly small in comparison in these style layouts. Love or hate it the style is very popular here in the US and doesn't seem to be going away. PC LOAD LETTER fucked around with this message at 22:06 on May 4, 2019 |
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May 4, 2019 21:56
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Here have a double dose of bad news. Although if there are 16 core Ryzen 3000 SKUs the need for TR is less urgent. https://twitter.com/tomshardware/status/1124795350345080832?s=19 https://twitter.com/AdoredTV/status/1124745559858982913?s=19 https://twitter.com/Casmoden/status/1124775174107222016?s=19
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May 4, 2019 23:03
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MaxxBot posted:Here have a double dose of bad news. Although if there are 16 core Ryzen 3000 SKUs the need for TR is less urgent. After sleeping on it a bit, it's likely due to a combination of IO die and motherboard. Threadripper would likely need its own IO die. It makes sense if they have to split resources between threadripper and epyc or other product lines to just skip a threadripper season or have people work on it later after everything is going smooth. They skipped an Epyc generation with zen+, but more importantly they have 0 competition in HEDT right now. Khorne fucked around with this message at 05:52 on May 5, 2019 |
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May 4, 2019 23:12
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Arzachel posted:Because you can't bank GPU cycles. I wonder if you could do adjustments within the same frame in a tile-based rendering system, by starting with tiles near the center of the screen and then adjust your checkerboard to a tighter or looser grid based on that. It would be both reactive and push the lower "true" resolution to the outside of the screen. Anyways I'm feeling like resolution will become a somewhat relative concept as stuff like checkerboard rendering becomes more widespread in engines. Khorne posted:I'm curious how other people interpret it. I can see loads of potential answers, but none of them feel quite right. Wild-rear end-total-speculation-tinfoil-guess: One or both of the console makers is pushing for earlier in 2020 and they're making AMD a godfather offer to accelerate development, which is slowing them down elsewhere.
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May 5, 2019 06:10
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K8.0 posted:Australia is the same way, huge country, lots of room, not as urban = giant houses cuz why not? Cygni posted:The best part of being pessimistic like this is if AMD blows it out of the water? Great! You get awesome new stuff to buy. But if they don't? Your predictions were right and you can tell yourself that you are a GENIUS. As for GPU. No idea what that will be.
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May 5, 2019 07:12
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PC LOAD LETTER posted:Which honestly at typical viewing distances (something like 12ft or more) There's no way that's typical viewing distance; that's extremely far away. Probably only for people that have their TVs mounted way high over a fireplace so they have to crank their necks and squint at the same time.
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May 5, 2019 08:19
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I haven't seen any negative rumors about Zen 2 so far but Navi on the other hand...
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May 5, 2019 11:43
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Lambert posted:There's no way that's typical viewing distance; that's extremely far away. Not really? When I was living in Boston we had a cramped 1 bedroom apartment in a building from the 1920s. But having the couch up against one living room wall and the TV on a thin TV stand up against the other meant you were watching it from a good 11 feet away. If we'd intentionally tried to bring it closer to the couch it would have been an awkward situation to walk around either the couch or the back of the TV.
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May 5, 2019 14:41
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I guess many people do have that kind of setup, but I still think that's way too far away for gaming.
Lambert fucked around with this message at 17:58 on May 5, 2019 |
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May 5, 2019 17:54
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Lambert posted:I guess many people do have that kind of setup, but I still think that's way too far away for gaming. It was fine when we moved in with a 32 inch set, and by the time we moved out we'd gotten a $160 40 inch set that worked just fine. 
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May 5, 2019 18:12
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Congrats on having low standards.
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May 5, 2019 21:20
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Yeah look at this LOSER whose living room isn't a proper BATTLESTATION  We sit 9ft from the TV right now in our apartment, when we buy a house I could easily see moving the couch another couple feet back to accommodate extra seating for company.
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May 6, 2019 00:31
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Lambert posted:Congrats on having low standards.
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May 6, 2019 00:37
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The leaked date I heard is May 27. Is it sad that I am looking forward to that day more than Christmas or any holiday. My 2500K is showing its age these days but Zen+ is just a little too weak at single thread and Intel is just outrageously expensive right now. And I am very skeptical about Navi, you can already get Vega 56 for $300 so unless they deliver a 2080 killer for under $500 it isn't too interesting. And they just launched the Radeon VII which is only about even with a 2080 at $700. I guess they could try to beat the 2070 at $500 but the 2070 is already the worst in terms of value of the RTX cards. Maybe they will surprise us all and put out a 2080Ti killer for $450. I can dream.
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May 6, 2019 01:16
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Discussion Quorum posted:Yeah look at this LOSER whose living room isn't a proper BATTLESTATION Look at this cool guy, having his TV be the main focal point of his house.
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May 6, 2019 11:05
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WTF is this dumb nerd fight about anyway? ? ?
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May 6, 2019 14:29
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Stanley Pain posted:WTF is this dumb nerd fight about anyway? ? Posters getting real defensive about the size of their personal TV/living rooms, I think?
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May 6, 2019 15:40
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Stanley Pain posted:WTF is this dumb nerd fight about anyway? ? Discussion › Serious Hardware / Software Crap > WTF is this dumb nerd fight about anyway?
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May 6, 2019 16:30
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Happy_Misanthrope posted:Somethingawful Forums > WTF is this dumb nerd fight about anyway?
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May 6, 2019 17:07
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MaxxBot posted:Here have a double dose of bad news. Although if there are 16 core Ryzen 3000 SKUs the need for TR is less urgent. It would be a smart play to have TR refreshers in between major core revisions. TR was a very "skunkworked the hell out of it to get it out the door" product that acted as a halo (AMD got a full stack in one quarter) rather than bookable design wins. Them going back to differentiate it more would be the better way to do the HEDT.
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May 6, 2019 18:49
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yeah nobody ever thought of selling a downbinned/upclocked server chip as a HEDT product before. "skunkworks"  . Some people just eat up that marketing copy.
Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 19:18 on May 6, 2019 |
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May 6, 2019 19:03
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Asrock confirms that A320 will only support Picasso, not Matisse.quote:ASRock has now officially announced the BIOS updates . The listed motherboards with X470, B450, X370, B350 and A320 chipset should support with the corresponding BIOS the " soon to be available new AMD Ryzen processors ", so ASRock. The list also clarifies the compatibility of the new processors with the A320 chipset: According to the A320 chipset supports only the new generation of Ryzen APUs, which are known under the code name Picasso. The other chipsets will support not only Picasso but also the Ryzen CPUs Matisse. (also on Asrock's site now.) Kinda lovely and I don't see a technical reason for it, but I guess most people who cared bought at least B350. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 19:31 on May 6, 2019 |
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May 6, 2019 19:28
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This was the case for a while, with ASUS and MSI saying the same thing last week. I did buy A320 for my server, but used boards are a better value than they were a year ago. Was worth it.
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May 6, 2019 20:16
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Speaking of ASRock motherboards, anyone done much with ECC memory and Ryzen CPUs? ASRock seems to be pretty solid on this front as far as I can tell, but are they picky about module compatibility? I'm putting together a home server and have been looking at used hardware, but Microcenter has what looks like some pretty deep discounts on 1600+motherboard combos right now. The upgrade path this would afford seems pretty compelling, since I would probably upgrade my desktop from a 2600X at some point.
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May 6, 2019 20:17
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Yes, Asrock is the board of choice for ECC. AFAIK no, they are not picky beyond the usual Ryzen being a bit picky with timings thing. But ECC has the nice benefit that it will tell you when it starts detecting errors, so you can back off timings. It would really be nice if everything was ECC nowadays, it's annoying that it's something that's still used for segmentation.
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May 6, 2019 20:51
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Question: Is there a reason not to go with ECC for a gaming system (assuming mainboards supporting it are available for Ryzen 3) aside of increased cost and smaller selection? It really seems to be something I'd want to have.
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May 6, 2019 20:56
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