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Baffling how people can say "Arya killing the Night King makes sense, she's been training to be an assassin for 10 years" even though it's nothing to do with her personal storyline and character but they think Daenerys following in the footsteps of her dad and Viserys (Rhaegar wasn't especially well hinged either) is nonsense even though she's been burning the poo poo out of everything and anything as a show of force for the entire series with the Tarlys being the most relevant example.
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May 5, 2019 20:19
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Cleganebowl in the books is prob gna be Jaime and a disfigured Brienne wearing Sandor's helm loving up Gregor, and tbh I'm sad the show will not give us that. However Sandor loving up Gregor is also good so nbd
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May 5, 2019 20:23
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The Conquerer took over the entire continent with their dragons and it feels pretty poo poo that they can just get randomly killed like that. The NK killing one felt okay, I guess. At least he's super natural too. But for Euron to shoot it with a ballista is such a wet fart. They've been too oversold, made out to be too strong if that's enough.
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May 5, 2019 20:24
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esperterra posted:The worst part is D&D will be able to point at season 2 and go 'but look guys we foreshadowed it all along!' due to their added vision of the Keep in ruins. But it doesn't count as foreshadowing or build up when they also removed everything else from the House of the Undying that leads toward Dany being even more mentally unstable than her bloodline has the potential to make her. You can't point toward her ending that early in the show, then not build up to it at all. It's lovely how unearned this is going to feel, but I'm still excited for it either way. It's much better than the alternative which was me assuming they'd change Dany's end to please fans. there absolutely has been some degree of buildup for it in the show, maybe not quite enough but I think people in this thread are ignoring/forgetting that buildup because of the overwhelming YAAAS QUEEN fans
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May 5, 2019 20:29
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Taear posted:The Conquerer took over the entire continent with their dragons and it feels pretty poo poo that they can just get randomly killed like that. I'm as big a D&D detractor as they come but no, you're hugely wrong here. Aegon never took over the whole continent, he could not defeat Dorne, precisely because Dorne was able to counter the dragons with scorpions/ballistae and military tactics designed around pretty advanced strategies consisting of "let's not get our entire army and stand here waiting for a dragon to come burn us all". Dragons are not the invincible juggernauts the show sometimes make them out to be. They are completely vulnerable to being killed which is why Aegon only ever unleashed all 3 in one battle. The reason he was so successful with them was because it was the first time Wessos had ever encountered them. Dorne showed the rest of the continent the blueprint to beat them which is why they were used less and less and most of them ended up dying in Targaryen in-fighting. Tehran 1979 fucked around with this message at 20:35 on May 5, 2019 |
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May 5, 2019 20:31
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To be fair, Dorne took down one of the OG dragons (way larger and more experienced) with ballista and was apparently good enough at it that few Targs would risk going there on their sky lizard again. So it's not beyond belief. That being said, Euron doing the same thing from a moving ship, against a moving target, from around the corner is the stupidest loving thing ever. The excuse will be "well that dragon was tired/wounded from the previous battle" but it still makes zero sense except to get the pieces off the board and further justify the mad queen thing.
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May 5, 2019 20:35
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There's been some, but not much, and most of it was during the sacking of Meereen. Between that and her burning the Tarlys there's been barely any attention paid to Dany not being as good as she seems, imo, which is what makes it feel unearned. They gave us the barest of breadcrumbs for it. It's hard to say how much of that is the bad writing and how much of that is Emilia Clarke's bad acting, though, tbf.
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May 5, 2019 20:35
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Tehran 1979 posted:I'm as big a D&D detractor as they come but no, you're hugely wrong here. Aegon never took over the whole continent, he could not defeat Dorne, precisely because Dorne was able to counter the dragons with scorpions/ballistae and military tactics designed around pretty advanced strategies consisting of "let's not get our entire army and stand here waiting for a dragon to come burn us all". Like Mat Cauthon just said it was one dragon. With their whole army. When they were prepared. When they'd watched the rest of the continent fall. I mean that's a gigantic gulf between that and this situation isn't it? Especially since in the wiki https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Aegon_I_Targaryen they definitely make it sound like luck, against a single dragon, hit in the eye.
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May 5, 2019 20:38
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Josuke Higashikata posted:Seemingly real 4chan leak with clips to boot. Lol still people pushing the bran is the night king.
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May 5, 2019 20:38
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It was Meraxes got shot through the eye with a scorpion and died. The Bad Show does so much wrong but when they've shown the Lannister army developing scorpions that can pierce even Balerion's skull (the biggest dragon of all time, bigger than Drogon), it's perfectly acceptable that they can shoot and kill the dragons. The three successful bolts to take it out is a bit of a stretch but gently caress it, it's a TV show. If you wanted to make a realistic event of it, you'd have had the entire fleet fire a volley of scorpion bolts at the dragons from their ambush point rather than three but it's less visceral which is what they're going for. The bigger bone of contention here is that Drogon ultimately shrugged off getting hit by the scorpion in season 7, not that Rhaegal gets owned.
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May 5, 2019 20:42
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With last weeks weird editing with the dragons it’s almost like they couldn’t decide how the second dragon gets killed.
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May 5, 2019 20:43
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The skull-shattering scorpion is a bit disingenuous, that thing's had 200 years to rot and dry out. It was more a spectacle for Cersei's ego than anything practical.
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May 5, 2019 20:45
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Taear posted:Like Mat Cauthon just said it was one dragon. With their whole army. When they were prepared. When they'd watched the rest of the continent fall. I think you misunderstood Cauthon's point. He wasn't saying it was 'just one dragon', he was saying it was one of the biggest, most experienced dragons in history. And no, the rest of your post is wrong as well.
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May 5, 2019 20:45
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Tehran 1979 posted:I think you misunderstood Cauthon's point. He wasn't saying it was 'just one dragon', he was saying it was one of the biggest, most experienced dragons in history. And no, the rest of your post is wrong as well. Only because they edited more into their post after. Josuke Higashikata posted:The three successful bolts to take it out is a bit of a stretch but gently caress it, it's a TV show. If you wanted to make a realistic event of it, you'd have had the entire fleet fire a volley of scorpion bolts at the dragons from their ambush point rather than three but it's less visceral which is what they're going for. Yea, so doing it because it looks more dramatic is dumb. I get WHY they want to do that but I don't like it. The dragons have felt like such total wastes. Not as much as the Others, but nearly.
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May 5, 2019 20:48
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Those bar reaction videos but on parents that named their kid Khaleesi when she goes mad queen
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May 5, 2019 20:54
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Taear posted:Only because they edited more into their post after. The rest of your post is still wrong. For some reason you tried to randomly make poo poo up to make your claim seem more justified. The dragon was not killed by "the full, prepared Dornish army", in fact it was killed by almost the exact loving opposite of that. I already told you that the Dornish didn't even fight like that. They were guerilla fighters, they didn't mass their army together. Aegon blitzkrieged a Dornish castle and one of its towers killed the dragon. And once again, you don't even need ballistae/scorpions to kill them, in either the book or the show. Book Drogon, who despite not being completely grown yet had already received the recognition of being the second biggest dragon in history was almost killed by a drunken zoo keeper with a spear and a whip. TV Drogon, last week, couldn't handle some zombie bois with knives. Tehran 1979 fucked around with this message at 21:02 on May 5, 2019 |
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May 5, 2019 21:00
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The writing is so bad a bunch of giant pens come to life and kills the dragon.
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May 5, 2019 21:06
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I don't even remember why Tyrion said Dany shouldn't just burn the Red Keep and kill Cersei (I think it that the people wouldn't accept her if she burned the town, but she could've at least burned the castle with the unpopular queen...), but a good point could have been made that Dany having no successor makes it very risky for her to ride dragons into battle against anyone who would feasibly have something to shoot them with. If Dany just gets sniped, no matter how unlikely it would be, the entire cause would be ruined because there's no one to replace her with. Now that her forces are decimated, the risk of her using the dragons is more necessary, and if the show had actually built up this point then it feels dramatically fine to me to have it pay off with a dragon dying IMO. Also, if Stannis was coming back the HBO twitter account wouldn't tweet about it lmao.
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May 5, 2019 21:09
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Punished “Venom” Stannis but it’s someone made up go look like his actor
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May 5, 2019 21:16
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So It Goes posted:I don't even remember why Tyrion said Dany shouldn't just burn the Red Keep and kill Cersei (I think it that the people wouldn't accept her if she burned the town, but she could've at least burned the castle with the unpopular queen...), but a good point could have been made that Dany having no successor makes it very risky for her to ride dragons into battle against anyone who would feasibly have something to shoot them with. If Dany just gets sniped, no matter how unlikely it would be, the entire cause would be ruined because there's no one to replace her with. Now that her forces are decimated, the risk of her using the dragons is more necessary, and if the show had actually built up this point then it feels dramatically fine to me to have it pay off with a dragon dying IMO. His stated reason was “You are not here to be Queen of the Ashes”, as if the choice was between burning the city to the ground and doing nothing. It never made any sense why Dany didn't just take King's Landing right away, but the writers wrote themselves into a corner, and had to make everyone act like idiots, to level the playing field.
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May 5, 2019 21:21
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SimonChris posted:His stated reason was “You are not here to be Queen of the Ashes”, as if the choice was between burning the city to the ground and doing nothing. It never made any sense why Dany didn't just take King's Landing right away, but the writers wrote themselves into a corner, and had to make everyone act like idiots, to level the playing field. Because the only way she could take king's landing right away would be to burn the city down, and she hadn't gone full mad queen yet (which is what Tyrion was trying to prevent).
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May 5, 2019 21:24
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Which ones are the Friki leaks? They're all kind of blending into a mush in my head.
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May 5, 2019 21:33
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Popular Human posted:Which ones are the Friki leaks? They're all kind of blending into a mush in my head. Tyrion Trial for betraying the Starks.
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May 5, 2019 21:34
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Popular Human posted:Which ones are the Friki leaks? They're all kind of blending into a mush in my head. The ones that are unreadable
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May 5, 2019 21:34
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TheRat posted:Because the only way she could take king's landing right away would be to burn the city down, and she hadn't gone full mad queen yet (which is what Tyrion was trying to prevent). The option of burning the red keep only should have absolutely been on the table and discussed. It could've been addressed reasonably enough by talking about the lack of succession and unnecessary risks but still. Tyrion and Varys would have to know that Cersei isn't a popular queen and has no actual legitimate claim (or heir) so if she died in the red keep then the city would have no reason to fight Dany and get burned itself.
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May 5, 2019 21:39
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Euron is the living definition of chucklefuck and everything about the character’s casting, design, and performance just screams early 2000s nu-metal band edgy.
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May 5, 2019 21:40
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Taear posted:Only because they edited more into their post after. Except I didn't? My point was that while there is a precedent for the dragons to be vulnerable, it requires a specific confluence of circumstances: - a landscape clear of distractions, where you can establish several points of concealed attack - one dragon alone, because with two or more it would be easy for one to distract the attackers while the other roasted them or counterattacked - an enemy that doesn't expect you, and extreme luck The Dornish had all three. We don't know much about how Rhaenys got taken down, but I assume it wasn't just one scorpion firing at her and hoping for the best. Notice that they didn't try to bring down Aegon and Visenya when they rampaged through Dorne in revenge. Two dragons is a death sentence. In the show we've seen a dragon get brought down twice: once by Bronn, once by the NK. The latter involved supernatural forces, so a special circumstance that we can't really count as a reference. The former was a lucky shot that ended up being glancing blow, and he only got as close as he did because Dany didn't know about the weapon, he was on steady ground, and she was flying head on at him (all 3 factors, minus several points of attack). IIRC Viseron or whichever dragon it is even manages to dodge the second bolt despite being wounded. The leaked clip shows both dragons banking over the peninsula that connects Dragonstone from the mainland at a pretty good speed, although they are ascending so maybe they have reduced maneuverability. Somehow Euron manages to hit the same dragon three times, in tactically smart spots (direct hit to the heart, clip the wing, finish with the throat pierce) from moving boats while navigating around a land feature big enough to hide several of his monster ships. If the mitigating factors here are that Jon is an inexperienced rider and the dragon was wounded from the previous battle, then fine. But it stretches the boundaries of what we know about dragons in the show, to say nothing of the books. So It Goes posted:The option of burning the red keep only should have absolutely been on the table and discussed. It could've been addressed reasonably enough by talking about the lack of succession and unnecessary risks but still. Tyrion and Varys would have to know that Cersei isn't a popular queen and has no actual legitimate claim (or heir) so if she died in the red keep then the city would have no reason to fight Dany and get burned itself. There was no good reason for Dany's fleet not to blockade KL with dragon air support while the other two dragons burnt down the Red Keep and the city wall in episode 1 of season 6 except for the show needing to fill a season's worth of run time. Dany's army could've easily taken the city with minimal losses and it's not like the show has ever really given a drat about what happens to smallfolk except for padding some emotional beats here and there. Tywin Lannister sacked KL's and the smallfolk didn't seem to care that his daughter got married to the new king. So we get a bunch of stupid advice from characters that should absolutely know better and a bunch of writing into a corner that makes the Meerense knot look like sharp plotting. Mat Cauthon fucked around with this message at 21:48 on May 5, 2019 |
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May 5, 2019 21:42
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Bottom Liner posted:Euron is the living definition of chucklefuck and everything about the character’s casting, design, and performance just screams early 2000s nu-metal band edgy. He reminds me so much about comedian Rufus Hound. https://twitter.com/babbleboxcomedy/status/893919950389354496
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May 5, 2019 21:42
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Wouldn't the body fall faster than the head? Edit: I just see Dark Side Pacey.
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May 5, 2019 21:43
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Pretty sure in season7 they already said random arrow snipers was a good reason for Dany to not just burn everything to the ground already.
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May 5, 2019 21:44
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So It Goes posted:The option of burning the red keep only should have absolutely been on the table and discussed. It could've been addressed reasonably enough by talking about the lack of succession and unnecessary risks but still. Tyrion and Varys would have to know that Cersei isn't a popular queen and has no actual legitimate claim (or heir) so if she died in the red keep then the city would have no reason to fight Dany and get burned itself. Agreed and they could have handwaved it away as a bad option with a line about how the fire might spread to the rest of the city or something. But instead they just look really stupid for not doing it / considering it.
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May 5, 2019 21:45
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Cersei has a point. The smallfolk wouldn't support someone who kills a bunch of civilians.
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May 5, 2019 21:46
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Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:Wouldn't the body fall faster than the head? Why?
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May 5, 2019 21:47
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Did they ever explain how the unsullied got back out of castley rock? Weren't they trapped in the castle?
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May 5, 2019 21:47
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Tenzarin posted:Weren't they trapped in the castle? No. They just lost a bunch of ships. Casterly Rock isn't an island.
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May 5, 2019 21:49
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It does kinda seem stupid that they didn't just outright attack kings landing right after they landed in dragonstone. They didn't even plan the ballistas right away they would have been hosed.
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May 5, 2019 21:53
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 Some more info on leaks, supposedly from a source that's been correct in the past. Dilettante. fucked around with this message at 22:03 on May 5, 2019 |
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May 5, 2019 21:56
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They should've gotten Matt Berry to play Euron
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May 5, 2019 21:56
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TheRat posted:Why? 
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May 5, 2019 21:59
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Mat Cauthon posted:There was no good reason for Dany's fleet not to blockade KL with dragon air support while the other two dragons burnt down the Red Keep and the city wall in episode 1 of season 6 except for the show needing to fill a season's worth of run time. Dany's army could've easily taken the city with minimal losses and it's not like the show has ever really given a drat about what happens to smallfolk except for padding some emotional beats here and there. Tywin Lannister sacked KL's and the smallfolk didn't seem to care that his daughter got married to the new king. So we get a bunch of stupid advice from characters that should absolutely know better and a bunch of writing into a corner that makes the Meerense knot look like sharp plotting. The show made a point that the being conquered by foreign dothroki and unsullied wouldn't be treated the same as rival westerosi houses of the same descent as them. I actually think that's a fair point to make although the show was too lazy in discussing the realistic difficulties and options Dany had to deal with King's Landing, presumably because people would have found it boring. Again, the idea of burning only the castle of the illegitimate and unpopular ruler of the city should've been at least discussed. Maybe Tyrion points out the risky nature of it, and when Dany finally goes to that battle later she gets a cut/scar on her face from falling off the dragon or something that reinforces the idea. It would've made Tyrion less dumb that season too since he would've at least been right about that point. They also needed a throwaway line about Dorne falling into civil war after the boat battle with Euron because its absurd that such an action apparently wipes out Dorne's entire army. It's like if Ned getting executed in season 1 just removed the North instead of actually motivating them to mobalize. This could even have interconnected with the theme of Dany having no heirs and troops only loyal to her individually being a legitimate problem for her rule, by showing what happens to a Kingdom when there isn't clear succession to follow. Man, last season (and this) still had potential even following the general plot outline and having to make some accounting of tv drama (i.e. the fact Dany needed to face set backs instead of just rolling over Cersei), but they just took way too many shortcuts and avoided too many necessary conversations, even if it would've been non-exciting television. e: As an aside, I am in the minority that thinks it's good the Night King was dealt with early to focus on Cersei, who can actually talk and makes for a more interesting final couple episodes than dumb fantasy zombies. I just wish the Night King's defeat wasn't because of a random backstab and the result of a specific plan by Bran and a more unified effort by the Dany/Jon forces (i.e. Jon actually fights and both gets disarmed, Night King arrogantly stands over Jon ready to kill when Arya then shanks him). So It Goes fucked around with this message at 22:06 on May 5, 2019 |
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May 5, 2019 22:00
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