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Celexi posted:Solution is less america, up to including protecting someone that destroyed the country since he assumed office. No one here is "protecting" Maduro. Those of us who say we oppose U.S. intervention in Venezuela have no power to remove him from, or keep him in, office. Majorian fucked around with this message at 01:29 on May 6, 2019 |
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May 6, 2019 01:15
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drilldo squirt posted:What has proven any alternative to marudo is a bunch of crud? A lot of people have been attacking him from the left, you refuse to acknowledge it because it conflicts with your worldview and you don't like that. what i meant by that is, there was a lot of talk about how literally *anything* would be better than maduro, despite that anything being spearheaded by trump's ghouls. turned out that's not actually the case
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May 6, 2019 01:34
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I'm pretty sure literally anything would be better than Maduro still. Name one thing that a right wing government would do that Marudo hasn't.
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May 6, 2019 02:16
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drilldo squirt posted:I'm pretty sure literally anything would be better than Maduro still. Name one thing that a right wing government would do that Marudo hasn't. Say nice things about the United States.
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May 6, 2019 02:20
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Make me, bitch.
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May 6, 2019 02:22
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drilldo squirt posted:I'm pretty sure literally anything would be better than Maduro still. Name one thing that a right wing government would do that Marudo hasn't. Regular pogroms?
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May 6, 2019 02:22
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Seriously though, The United States of America is better than venesuala to live in for many reasons, that I'm not going to get into because this is about Venezuela.
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May 6, 2019 02:24
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brugroffil posted:Regular pogroms? I have bad news, friend.
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May 6, 2019 02:25
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I think a civil war would not make the current situation better. There are a lot of armed pro-Maduro forces in the country, removing him from office would only be the beginning.
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May 6, 2019 02:58
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A civil war would definitely not be better, which is one of the major issues with Maduro. The ineptitude and corruption of his leadership will continue to make such a situation more and more likely as time goes on and the country keeps discussing.
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May 6, 2019 03:03
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I'm not asking if a transition from the Maduro government would be worse than a transition to a non Maduro government because Maduro will do everything in his power to make sure that it is. I'm asking what would a us installed puppet do that Maduro already has not done.
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May 6, 2019 03:06
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drilldo squirt posted:I have bad news, friend. Im pretty sure that Maduro hasn't done this but I'm open to being wrong
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May 6, 2019 03:12
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drilldo squirt posted:I'm not asking if a transition from the Maduro government would be worse than a transition to a non Maduro government because Maduro will do everything in his power to make sure that it is. I'm asking what would a us installed puppet do that Maduro already has not done. Vincent Van Goatse posted:Say nice things about the United States.
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May 6, 2019 03:12
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drilldo squirt posted:I'm not asking if a transition from the Maduro government would be worse than a transition to a non Maduro government because Maduro will do everything in his power to make sure that it is. I'm asking what would a us installed puppet do that Maduro already has not done. Put in reliably less reversible situations regarding the privatization of assets. Arguably. Like I understand that Maduro basically already HAS privatized the country's wealth generation, but this is in ways you could probably undo easier with transition to a new socialist government. If the country got into a managed US asset condition, you'd have heavy hitters reminiscent of Halliburton doing their best to creatively structure command of their resources into their ledgers. And they're frighteningly good at it, still.
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May 6, 2019 03:16
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kidkissinger posted:Im pretty sure that Maduro hasn't done this but I'm open to being wrong They haven't organized violence against Jews, no. They have organized violence against others.
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May 6, 2019 03:19
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Kavros posted:Put in reliably less reversible situations regarding the privatization of assets. Arguably. So they are doing the same thing, but not as good as Halliburton would, which makes them better people?
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May 6, 2019 03:21
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ShadowHawk posted:This statement was intended as an answer to your question and not a command for you personally. If he's saying that my demand is the same as his demand, I think that's stupid.
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May 6, 2019 03:22
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drilldo squirt posted:If he's saying that my demand is the same as his demand, I think that's stupid. I can't keep track of every individuals positions in this thread but I'm assuming it was just a joke saying that a us backed leader would say nice things about the us, which maduro wouldn't do.
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May 6, 2019 03:26
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drilldo squirt posted:They haven't organized violence against Jews, no. They have organized violence against others. what ethnic or religious group is being targeted for extermination? that's sort of the defining feature of a pogrom, it's not indiscriminate violence
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May 6, 2019 03:28
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Garrand posted:I can't keep track of every individuals positions in this thread but I'm assuming it was just a joke saying that a us backed leader would say nice things about the us, which maduro wouldn't do. That makes sense and I'm sorry to Mr. Goatse for having a low expectations in dnd.
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May 6, 2019 03:46
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CYBEReris posted:what ethnic or religious group is being targeted for extermination? that's sort of the defining feature of a pogrom, it's not indiscriminate violence Class traitors, which is really useful since you can declare anyone one.
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May 6, 2019 03:47
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Truga posted:what i meant by that is, there was a lot of talk about how literally *anything* would be better than maduro, despite that anything being spearheaded by trump's ghouls. turned out that's not actually the case you're equating a couple disparate things here, and i know you know that but I don't really disagree with the tentative conclusion that - Guaido's personal stances are a bit worrying, and - the attempted revolt seems to have fallen on its face edit and - trump bad and the US should stop schlonging the mashed potatoes Kavros posted:Put in reliably less reversible situations regarding the privatization of assets. Arguably. yeah, I do think this is a meaningful concern (and might yet happen after sanctions are removed with Maduro in power, lol) in theory a future Venezuelan government can go "lol no, we're retaking [some amount of] our assets", and in theory they could make it stick this applies at least as much to Maduro's collateralizations as to a hypothetical future government's Goatse James Bond fucked around with this message at 04:09 on May 6, 2019 |
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May 6, 2019 03:58
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drilldo squirt posted:Class traitors, which is really useful since you can declare anyone one.
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May 6, 2019 04:49
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drilldo squirt posted:I have bad news, friend.
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May 6, 2019 04:50
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drilldo squirt posted:Watch how this is never addressed and some American crime is brought up for some reason. I'll address it, I did earlier really. There are videos of tons of people in the streets that are anti regime change. The obvious conclusion is that there is a gamut of opinions on what should happen even among Venezuelans. Just saying "I am Venezuelan and Maduro sucks" isn't really enough to change my mind. drilldo squirt posted:I'm pretty sure literally anything would be better than Maduro still. Name one thing that a right wing government would do that Marudo hasn't. Then there's a fundamental disagreement and we're not going to agree.
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May 6, 2019 04:53
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drilldo squirt posted:I'm not asking if a transition from the Maduro government would be worse than a transition to a non Maduro government because Maduro will do everything in his power to make sure that it is. I'm asking what would a us installed puppet do that Maduro already has not done. Honestly what a strange position at this point given the history of right wing dictators in South America. "Eh, what could go wrong this time?" is just breathtakingly callous. Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 05:06 on May 6, 2019 |
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May 6, 2019 04:56
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Drilldo squirt has literally seven pages of rap sheet, mostly either for trolling or for things that are beyond any rational person. Honestly, I'm kinda impressed. Content infusion: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-48172520 Venezuela crisis: Guaidó 'considering asking US for military intervention' quote:Asked whether he would like Mr Trump and the US military to intervene, he responded it is "responsible to evaluate" the possibility of international intervention, adding: "I, as the president in charge of the national parliament, will evaluate all options if necessary." still clickbaity, still bluebally, and still irresponsible Goatse James Bond fucked around with this message at 05:14 on May 6, 2019 |
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May 6, 2019 05:10
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GreyjoyBastard posted:Content infusion: Lol he sucks so much. The only appropriate answer to that question is “no, gently caress you.”
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May 6, 2019 05:21
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CYBEReris posted:what ethnic or religious group is being targeted for extermination? that's sort of the defining feature of a pogrom, it's not indiscriminate violence The Pimon and a lot of the other indigenous people of the Orinoco and Amazon. To be fair, this is not strictly the Maduro government, and its less a deliberate targeting for extermination than a "sweeping out of the way", although it has some of the same effects. Venezuelan governments for a long time didn't recognize the rights of indigenous people. One of the things that the 1999 constitution did, though, was to guarantee indigenous communities the right to title over their land, and to make decisions over its use. Unfortunately, even though these promises were made, they were not really kept. The recognition of indigenous communities' and tribes' right to their land was slow to materialize. In 2016, the government announced the Arco Minero del Orinoco, a massive area in the south of the country that was opened up to exploration and mining. This was done unilaterally by the government in violation of the law and the Constitution, which required the government to operate in consultation with the indigenous people of of the area if tribal lands were going to be developed. This has led to a greater and greater crisis in the south, as the military has been called in to suppress tribal protests and to forcibly relocate people, and there's been a lot of violence already. Here's actually a pretty good article about AMO, talking about how it violates the Constitution in a whole lot of ways, actually. http://nuso.org/articulo/el-arco-minero-del-orinoco/
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May 6, 2019 05:34
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GreyjoyBastard posted:Drilldo squirt has literally seven pages of rap sheet, mostly either for trolling or for things that are beyond any rational person. I'm being completely serious.
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May 6, 2019 05:47
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Moridin920 posted:Honestly what a strange position at this point given the history of right wing dictators in South America. "Eh, what could go wrong this time?" is just breathtakingly callous. You're either an idiot or intentionally misreading what I posted.
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May 6, 2019 05:48
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Epicurius posted:The Pimon and a lot of the other indigenous people of the Orinoco and Amazon. To be fair, this is not strictly the Maduro government, and its less a deliberate targeting for extermination than a "sweeping out of the way", although it has some of the same effects. Venezuelan governments for a long time didn't recognize the rights of indigenous people. One of the things that the 1999 constitution did, though, was to guarantee indigenous communities the right to title over their land, and to make decisions over its use. Unfortunately, even though these promises were made, they were not really kept. The recognition of indigenous communities' and tribes' right to their land was slow to materialize. Nueva Sociedad is a project of the German Friedrich Ebert Foundation, who have a long history with the CIA in trying to smear and discredit leftwing, communist, socialist movements internationally. This is an excerpt from an exhaustive article from Philip Agee where they figure into a network of international foundations dedicated to destabilizing leftwing political movements in favor of right liberal movements: quote:They consulted a vast array of domestic and foreign organizations, and what they found most interesting were the government-financed foundations of the main West German political parties: the Friedrich Ebert Stiftung of the Social Democrats and the Konrad Adenauer Stiftung of the Christian Democrats. When these foundations were first set up in the 1950’s, their task was to build a new German democratic order, a civil society based on the Western parliamentary model while lending their weight to repression of communist and other left political movements. teleSur has issued correctives on the very subject you're posting about so it would be good to avail yourself of those as well, and not rely on this shady thinktank alone. Google will ably translate this which isn't on the english teleSur website: https://www.telesurtv.net/opinion/Esta-reprimiendo-el-gobierno-de-Venezuela-a-la-comunidad-indigena-de-los-Pemones-20190303-0057.html
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May 6, 2019 06:08
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drilldo squirt posted:You're either an idiot or intentionally misreading what I posted.
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May 6, 2019 06:10
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Seraphic Sphere posted:
conversely telesur is not exactly a neutral source on venezuela
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May 6, 2019 06:16
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plus, do you really think the post-guaido privatizing of the mineral concerns and selling them to multi-national corporations will be better for the indigenous peoples? eric prince has already been angling to get his hands on mineral extraction rights across the world, do you think that the owner of the infamous blackwater mercenary group is the best person to protect the human rights of indigionous peoples?
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May 6, 2019 06:17
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Seraphic Sphere posted:Nueva Sociedad is a project of the German Friedrich Ebert Foundation, who have a long history with the CIA in trying to smear and discredit leftwing, communist, socialist movements internationally. This is an excerpt from an exhaustive article from Philip Agee where they figure into a network of international foundations dedicated to destabilizing leftwing political movements in favor of right liberal movements: Telesur is a mouthpiece for the Venezuelan government. And if you don't like Nueva Sociedad, what about : http://www.ecopoliticavenezuela.org/2018/06/28/una-mirada-estructural-del-megaproyecto-arco-minero-del-orinoco-i/ or https://es.mongabay.com/2018/02/arco-minero-de-venezuela-resumen/ or https://www.iagua.es/blogs/luis-alejandro-padrino/sed-oro-nos-dejara-agua-arco-minero-orinoco-amo or https://noalamina.org/latinoamerica/venezuela/item/40325-the-arco-minero-del-orinoco-fraude-y-catastrofe-en-venezuela All CIA front organizations? Epicurius fucked around with this message at 06:31 on May 6, 2019 |
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May 6, 2019 06:22
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Epicurius posted:Telesur is a mouthpiece for the Venezuelan government. I know, but if you're going to listen to one mouthpiece then you should give equal time to the other. It's not like 100% objective journalism on Venezuela is easy to find. And there's nothing wrong with listening to the defense of the accused for that matter. Some would even consider it a duty.
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May 6, 2019 06:23
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Epicurius posted:Telesur is a mouthpiece for the Venezuelan government. Yes, but it is reinforcing their narrative so it is a much more valid source of information.
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May 6, 2019 06:23
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you've found journalism on Venezuela that doesn't reinforce a narrative???
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May 6, 2019 06:24
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[my mistake]
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May 6, 2019 06:25
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