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Lambert posted:Question: Is there a reason not to go with ECC for a gaming system (assuming mainboards supporting it are available for Ryzen 3) aside of increased cost and smaller selection? It really seems to be something I'd want to have. You would have to make an active effort to track down Samsung B-die ECC, it is out there but it is not the norm because nobody cares about timings on servers. Also, until Threadripper came out, nobody really did binning, and even still there isn't the hyper-speed 4000 kits like you can get with gaming RAM. I think you can get 2933 kits with B-die nowadays though.
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May 6, 2019 20:59
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There's not really any appreciable performance penalty. Parity calcs are occurring on dimm, and if it sees a correctable error it will slow a bit while it rebuilds the data from parity and serves the request. If that is occurring with enough frequency to have some kind of performance issue, you've got bigger problems on your hands. I would always advise getting ECC memory if you have a system that can support it.
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May 6, 2019 21:03
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Lambert posted:Question: Is there a reason not to go with ECC for a gaming system (assuming mainboards supporting it are available for Ryzen 3) aside of increased cost and smaller selection? It really seems to be something I'd want to have. What are you doing to have any reason to want ECC to begin with?
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May 6, 2019 21:03
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ItBreathes posted:What are you doing to have any reason to want ECC to begin with? No real reason at all, just sounds like a feature I'd want. Paul MaudDib posted:You would have to make an active effort to track down Samsung B-die ECC, it is out there but it is not the norm because nobody cares about timings on servers. Also, until Threadripper came out, nobody really did binning, and even still there isn't the hyper-speed 4000 kits like you can get with gaming RAM. I think you can get 2933 kits with B-die nowadays though. Thanks!
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May 6, 2019 21:07
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2 of my last 3 builds since 2014 have had asrock boards. Even outside of ecc I think they're usually a great value Mind you I'm not really an asrock "fan" I just go largely by feature:price
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May 6, 2019 21:26
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ItBreathes posted:What are you doing to have any reason to want ECC to begin with? ECC *should* be an industry-wide baseline feature, not something special you have to pay extra for. The way things are now, it's like driving a car where the airbags and crumple zones are a premium add-on feature.
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May 6, 2019 21:58
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if apex legends crashes, my family doesnt die
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May 6, 2019 22:11
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Probably the main reason it isn't a baseline feature is cost; a non ECC DIMM will have some multiple of 8 chips on it while an ECC DIMM will have some multiple of 9 chips on it (for storing the parity data).
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May 6, 2019 22:13
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SwissArmyDruid posted:ECC *should* be an industry-wide baseline feature, not something special you have to pay extra for. The way things are now, it's like driving a car where the airbags and crumple zones are a premium add-on feature. Should be but isn't. But since it does cost extra, and since you'll almost never notice the kind of errors it addresses, I wouldn't council getting it for a gaming rig.
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May 6, 2019 22:16
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ECC is for mission-critical applications that require precise, reliable calculations. It's not a feature you'd need for any other desktop machine, gaming or otherwise. Save the money and put it towards RGB bling.  And speaking of Samsung B-die, it's apparently going away soon: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/samsung-b-die-memory-kill-eol,39255.html
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May 6, 2019 22:29
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Agreed. It can also cause more crashes on certain situations.
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May 6, 2019 22:30
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LRADIKAL posted:Agreed. It can also cause more crashes on certain situations. What the gently caress are you talking about
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May 6, 2019 22:34
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Balliver Shagnasty posted:Save the money and put it towards RGB bling. Apparently, you haven't seen what's been going around with the Kingston Hyper-X Fury RGB SSD. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnST5rA64Oc RGB is a loving blight upon the face of this earth.
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May 6, 2019 23:06
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BangersInMyKnickers posted:What the gently caress are you talking about I'd rather have these protections though, personally. Getting DDR4-3200 low CAS ECC DIMMs is an issue, tho.
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May 6, 2019 23:15
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I just took a look online and it looks like ECC RAM is just a few bucks more expensive than the normal gamer RAM, so if that is important to you you might as well get it. Even registered RAM doesn't have the absurd markup it used to.
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May 6, 2019 23:31
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Combat Pretzel posted:Probably multi-bit data errors crashing the machine, that would otherwise not really have affected the system. I mean, it shouldn't crash the system unless it would likely have crashed the system anyway. But maybe hacky ECC on consumer hardware/firmware/software that doesn't really support it behaves badly. Anyway, yeah, I'm on board with "ECC should be the default, and its rarity on consumer platforms is a sign of this industry's stupid immaturity." For every game texture nobody cares about, you get "this major document I've been working on for weeks is corrupt! WTF" Along with people who have bad RAM and constant crashes and have no idea why and just think it's normal. ECC would diagnose the problem for them. It's not like it's actually that much more expensive. Most of the price difference right now is market discrimination, not actual additional costs.
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May 7, 2019 00:49
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ecc off is purely market segmentation ecc can protect against certain rowhammer instances. not all, but it should be enabled by default. The paper on this is hilarious, with the researchers basically confirming that SECDED hamming codes are not capable of triple bit error detection, which is like, baked into the definition.
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May 7, 2019 02:09
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crazypenguin posted:For every game texture nobody cares about, you get "this major document I've been working on for weeks is corrupt! WTF" How frequently do you have to be getting memory errors for one to hit that rather exact target, rather than the gigabytes of OS and application space stuff that will just cause a crash? crazypenguin posted:Along with people who have bad RAM and constant crashes and have no idea why and just think it's normal. ECC would diagnose the problem for them. True, but you know what else works? Memtest. OTOH having ECC errors that correctly signal a hardware fault still doesn't mean that the memory itself is bad -- memory errors can also be caused by mobo, CPU, and probably the power supply. For average consumers who don't have the experience and spare parts needed to diagnose that stuff, the correct response to a PC that crashes constantly is still "uninstall bonzi buddy" followed by "send it back for warranty service". crazypenguin posted:It's not like it's actually that much more expensive. Most of the price difference right now is market discrimination, not actual additional costs.  And before you rush to agree, realize that in a just (socialist) world all the expensive toys we jerk ourselves over ITT would be redistributed.
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May 7, 2019 05:44
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Klyith posted:And before you rush to agree, realize that in a just (socialist) world all the expensive toys we jerk ourselves over ITT would be redistributed. In a socialist country you'd actually have to provide a justification for needing ECC RAM outside of "I have the money and want to buy it"
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May 7, 2019 06:19
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Socialist country knows that you don’t really need it, stop wasting our precious resources already.
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May 7, 2019 06:35
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I know it's off topic, but it irks me. You mean communist, not socialist.
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May 7, 2019 07:14
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Healthcare or ECC RAM, now's the time to decide on which system you want.
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May 7, 2019 07:25
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Varashi posted:I know it's off topic, but it irks me. loving thank you, someone else got to it before me. Learn the loving difference, you goons.
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May 7, 2019 09:43
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SwissArmyDruid posted:loving thank you, someone else got to it before me. Fox News Brain is a terrible affliction, wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy
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May 7, 2019 10:25
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Klyith posted:
Not necessarily thanks to memory training on modern mainboards. Even if your memory isn't on your motherboard's QVL (= untested XMP profile) you can easily end up with a situation where your PC boots with an unstable memory timing 5-10% of the time. A lovely thing to debug. ECC memory should be standard on every modern computing device IMO but for different reasons, i.e. look up bitsquatting and the amount of hits security researchers got from registering bitflipped google domains.
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May 7, 2019 12:16
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eames posted:ECC memory should be standard on every modern computing device
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May 7, 2019 12:20
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Socialism in the AMD thread? That's the team red I'll sign up for 
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May 7, 2019 13:11
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eames posted:look up bitsquatting and the amount of hits security researchers got from registering bitflipped google domains. Either way, anyone that does some sort of "creative" work, be it media or programming or whatever, should have some sort of interest in ECC. Every bus has at least checksumming and ways to trigger retransmission, every media has some sort of error correction coding, except the loving RAM. And its densities are just going up. Combat Pretzel fucked around with this message at 13:58 on May 7, 2019 |
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May 7, 2019 13:41
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You know, I think I'd rather have Paul post in this thread than have it devolve into stupid political poo poo no one cares about.Varashi posted:I know it's off topic, but it irks me. 
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May 7, 2019 18:30
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I have nothing to add really but as the guy who asked the question on ECC this was a really helpful discussion to read, not just for general understanding but also deciding whether or not to bother building vs just buying a consumer Synology/QNAP and being done with it.
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May 7, 2019 19:35
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To counter my double bad news post from the other day have double good news! 1.5EF Frontier supercomputer announced using AMD EPYC CPUs and Radeon Instinct GPUs. Note that the DoE has announced two exascale supercomputers now and neither of them use Nvidia. https://twitter.com/AMD/status/1125720539560054785 And for the other news https://twitter.com/TUM_APISAK/status/1123784049452048385 https://twitter.com/TUM_APISAK/status/1125226916317782016
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May 7, 2019 20:09
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MaxxBot posted:
Khorne fucked around with this message at 04:59 on May 8, 2019 |
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May 8, 2019 04:54
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Presented entirely without comment.... except for me laughing my loving rear end off at Intel. https://www.servethehome.com/intel-xeon-platinum-9200-formerly-cascade-lake-ap-launched/
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May 8, 2019 12:23
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Time to take a three week vacation from this thread and general CPU news until sumthing substantial turns up.
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May 8, 2019 13:00
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SwissArmyDruid posted:Presented entirely without comment.... except for me laughing my loving rear end off at Intel. Serve the Home posted:
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May 8, 2019 13:08
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 AMD is about to release 64 core EPYCs at 180W, and these new Xeons are not drop ins for existing server infrastructure. Exactly who is going to look at the TCO between these and say "Yea, I'll take the loving literal oven."
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May 8, 2019 13:38
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EmpyreanFlux posted:
Too many
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May 8, 2019 13:51
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That 400W is intels TDP number isn't it, wonder how much that fucker pulls under AVX. I legit think there might be more than a couple of datacenters that would require complete power infrastructure rebuilds in order to upgrade to these monsters, also think of the combined heat output, this is nuts.
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May 8, 2019 14:28
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TheCoach posted:That 400W is intels TDP number isn't it, wonder how much that fucker pulls under AVX. I don't think this is going to be breaking any power density records. There's not enough interior volume to jam this thing in to a 1U to provide sufficient cooling and even running a dual-socket 2U with these is going to top out at 1.5kW which isn't anything special compared the density you see for more commodity blade infrastructure which is jamming in upwards of 8 sockets per U. And they're too stupidly expensive to only have more than a few of them around for specific workloads that need it.
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May 8, 2019 14:43
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Yeah you can find just normal 1U boxes that support 8 sockets these days, and blades can go even higher. poo poo's getting pretty insane.
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May 8, 2019 14:50
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