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Atomizer posted:Well there are differences in materials (e.g. fabric vs hard plastic or even metal,) thickness (which may or may not be an issue for your setup,) and size (from like 4x6" portable to full 1x4' or whatever to go under both your mouse and keyboard.) On top of that there are RGB and wireless charging options. So a "gaming" mousepad isn't necessarily "better," but there are definitely options to consider. Most "gaming" mousepads are just the same as any cloth one you can find at an office supply store but with gamer branding. Once it gets dirty its junk and you can never clean it well without loosening the weave. Purpose built gaming ones make a real difference with tighter cloth weaves and lower friction threads. This is my current favorite, its glass impregnated cloth https://www.artisan-jp.com/fx-shidenkai-eng.html Its extremely low friction, I can lightly flick the mouse and it slides across the whole surface. The soft foam core gives it very sharp stops for flick shots when your hand is on the mouse putting weight down. The feeling is similar to a hard plastic one but because of the soft core you dont get the super jittery crosshair when playing high sens. Its really the best of both types, you get low friction and control but it does wear out faster than standard cloth. I put it over the powerplay mat and it charges fine
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Apr 26, 2019 06:35
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Listerine posted:
Ideal is PM, or if you don't have plat I can share my account name on a different platform if you'd like. I prefer not to share email addresses in public.
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Apr 26, 2019 08:03
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Goo posted:All right, that sucks. Can you please share your case number and the email address you used when you created it with me? I'd like to ask the agent to process an RMA for you and get the unit you have back to us for failure analysis. Sent, thanks so much!
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Apr 26, 2019 09:03
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5he5DqvOZb8 Linus finally reviews the MX518 legendary. I think I may be back on for a carton of MX518s. The reminder that on models of the mice that preceded the MX518 the DPI+ and DPI- buttons were pgup/pgdown got me to remap + to DPI switch, putting it even further out of the way so I don't hit it when I don't need it, and DPI reset to Page Down. I'm still using - as a second, more comfortable middle-click, though. We'll see how I like this new setup. Also, I've backed off the 10,000 DPI setting somewhat, it makes for somewhat annoying fiddling with mouse settings. My high is now a more reasonable 6,000 DPI.
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May 3, 2019 21:12
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Looks like Logitech is releasing a G502 wireless. https://www.reddit.com/r/G502MasterRace/comments/bkbw56/i_got_sent_a_g502_lightspeed_by_logitech/
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May 3, 2019 21:15
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remember posted:Looks like Logitech is releasing a G502 wireless. I knew it had to be coming! I have no regrets about spending the $40 on my 603 to test out their Lightspeed tech, the only question now is whether I can justify the :tenbux: on the power play mouse pad at the same time....
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May 3, 2019 22:07
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This this Logitech G403 Wired Optical Gaming Mouse with 12000 DPI, 16.8 Million Colours for PC, MAC, USB - Black https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01KT8D7FM/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_QmlZCbRABDZQH worth £35? I'm currently using the a Microsoft Intellimouse Optical and have been for about 10 years. Still works OK but isn't as fast as I'd like it for general desktop use, even when mouse speed is turned up to max.
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May 3, 2019 22:34
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remember posted:Looks like Logitech is releasing a G502 wireless. Here we go again!  On second thought, I'll wait for a wireless MX518 with fast-scroll because the G502 is kinda heavy and will probably still be heavy if not heavier despite being wireless. Edit: it's 115 grams according to the reddit post but that still makes it heavier than the new MX518. And it's built-in rechargeable with a micro USB charge cable. Ugh. spasticColon fucked around with this message at 22:58 on May 3, 2019 |
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May 3, 2019 22:53
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remember posted:Looks like Logitech is releasing a G502 wireless. > micro USB That alone bumps it from "I'm gonna get one and test it" to "IF I don't keep using my MX518 AND my OG G502 dies AND there aren't any other mice with usb C by then
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May 3, 2019 23:05
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Well, guess I have to get one and a powerplay mat now. I’m still on my original flavor 502 that I had to get at best buy.
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May 3, 2019 23:42
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SwissArmyDruid posted:Also, I've backed off the 10,000 DPI setting somewhat, it makes for somewhat annoying fiddling with mouse settings. My high is now a more reasonable 6,000 DPI. I can't tell if you're joking here. I thought that everyone played with low DPI settings for better control/accuracy?  SwissArmyDruid posted:> micro USB How many mice actually use USB-C though? I mean I've never looked at my Powerplay mice/mat and thought, "I'm disappointed that these mice that I never have to plug in only use micro USB." 
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May 3, 2019 23:48
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Not joking. Low DPI historically meant fewer samples, which meant pixel skipping. Therefore, you set your mouse DPI as high as you could stand, and then crank the sensitivity down to make it usable. And a cursory inventory of all of the things on my desk are my TKL keyboard, numpad, and mouse, which are all USB-A and then: * G502, OG MX518, * A hub with the USB-C end that plugs into the computer * USB-C charge/data cable for my phone * retractable micro-USB cable with a micro-B -> USB-C adapter tip * USB-C -> DP cable * USB-C -> HDMI charge/display cable * Dualshock 4, for use with the aforementioned retractable cable. I am pretty much done with micro-USB.
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May 4, 2019 01:05
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Increasing DPI to avoid pixel skipping was relevant back when people ran like 200 DPI mice and people still hadn't accepted that really low absolute sens is good. These days, even if you're playing at 4k, using a low 90 real hfov, and a quick-ish 16" 360, 1000 DPI is enough, though I'd probably go 2000 for the increased smoothness of half-pixel precision. e - point being that your primary concern with DPI should usually just be having a comfortable desktop experience. K8.0 fucked around with this message at 01:34 on May 4, 2019 |
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May 4, 2019 01:24
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Oh yeah, totally, it's why my low is still 2000. I'm not using 6000 DPI for EVERYTHING, jesus.
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May 4, 2019 01:58
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SwissArmyDruid posted:Not joking. Low DPI historically meant fewer samples, which meant pixel skipping. Therefore, you set your mouse DPI as high as you could stand, and then crank the sensitivity down to make it usable. Given that modern mice are far better than they used to be, what is the most appropriate configuration? For starters, my desktop mouse is a Performance MX* and it doesn't have visible DPI settings like gaming mice do; nevertheless I have acceleration off and "sensitivity" is in the middle, both in Windows and the non-gaming Logitech Setpoint software. I typically game with a G703 on this system, and I have the polling rate at 1k and DPI switching between 800 for shooter-type games and 1600 for use in Windows, menus, etc. How should I actually be setup? *This is actually the warranty replacement for whatever the previous flagship mouse was (MX Revolution maybe?) which developed a double-clicking issue** after a couple years, and this mouse has been perfect ever since, even after all these years. **As mentioned recently, my G703 developed the same intermittent clicking problem, and I just got a brand-new one as replacement from Logitech CS. SwissArmyDruid posted:And a cursory inventory of all of the things on my desk are my TKL keyboard, numpad, and mouse, which are all USB-A and then: So basically there may not be many if any USB-C mice at the moment? I generally agree with you about USB-C and micro USB; for a long time I bitched about electronics manufacturers including mini USB long after micro USB came out, and now they're doing the same with micro USB and USB-C. The funny thing is, while it's less durable, the mini USB connector is arguably less finicky to use, at least in my opinion. USB-C is still the king though. Also, I have some non-standard cables that are reversible USB-A and reversible micro USB; still not as good as USB-C, but almost as high on the QoL scale.
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May 4, 2019 03:35
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For games made in the last 10-15 years windows mouse settings generally don't matter since they typically use raw input, and MS has made non-6/11 settings more usable in windows although 6/11 is still the ideal if you can get your DPI good for it. To calculate minimum in-game DPI, multiply horizontal pixels of your res by the number of screens in 360 degrees (3-4 for most monitors/games) and then divide by the number of inches it takes you to do a 360 at the sens you play at. That's your minimum DPI to avoid skipping pixels, double that is probably a better target for maximizing smoothness/consistency. Also, the reason that USB-C isn't showing up on everything right away is that it's a lot more expensive, especially in terms of relatively skilled labor, to produce and test proper USB-C products. K8.0 fucked around with this message at 04:05 on May 4, 2019 |
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May 4, 2019 03:58
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K8.0 posted:Increasing DPI to avoid pixel skipping was relevant back when people ran like 200 DPI mice and people still hadn't accepted that really low absolute sens is good. These days, even if you're playing at 4k, using a low 90 real hfov, and a quick-ish 16" 360, 1000 DPI is enough, though I'd probably go 2000 for the increased smoothness of half-pixel precision. pixel skipping still absolutely happens in current gen games at sane dpi and in game sens Just use this calculator, you shouldnt have to do math when you arent at work https://pyrolistical.github.io/overwatch-dpi-tool/ Fauxtool fucked around with this message at 04:43 on May 4, 2019 |
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May 4, 2019 04:39
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Atomizer posted:Given that modern mice are far better than they used to be, what is the most appropriate configuration? For starters, my desktop mouse is a Performance MX* and it doesn't have visible DPI settings like gaming mice do; nevertheless I have acceleration off and "sensitivity" is in the middle, both in Windows and the non-gaming Logitech Setpoint software. I typically game with a G703 on this system, and I have the polling rate at 1k and DPI switching between 800 for shooter-type games and 1600 for use in Windows, menus, etc. How should I actually be setup? 800-1600 is very popular in fps games because it avoids sensor drift. You get minor angle skipping at those DPIs in fps games, but I can't think of a title where that matters. Other people set DPI to a value that allows them to have a sensitivity of 1 in-game because it avoids angle skipping if the dpi is high enough. However, sensor drift increases as the dpi increases. Personally, I'd much rather have highly predictable skipping that will literally never matter than to deal with an increase in drift. It's always a balancing act. My opinion is likely biased by being An Old Man who played fps games real seriously at 400 dpi then 800 dpi when the mx510 came out. Just find something that feels and performs right for you and then use that. It doesn't really matter - people obsess way too much about this stuff. As long as your mouse behaves in a predictable way you won't be handicapped by it. Khorne fucked around with this message at 19:57 on May 4, 2019 |
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May 4, 2019 19:45
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Lot of misinformation there. Pixel skipping has nothing whatsoever to do with angle snapping, any mouse with a good sensor will not angle snap regardless of what DPI you set it to, angle snapping is a big deal in most FPSs, in game sens does not affect angle snapping, and what I think you're calling drift in games comes from running too high an absolute sensitivity, not from having too high DPI.
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May 4, 2019 19:56
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K8.0 posted:Lot of misinformation there. Pixel skipping has nothing whatsoever to do with angle snapping, any mouse with a good sensor will not angle snap regardless of what DPI you set it to, angle snapping is a big deal in most FPSs, in game sens does not affect angle snapping, and what I think you're calling drift in games comes from running too high an absolute sensitivity, not from having too high DPI. Angle skipping is a result of DPI and in-game sens together. It's what people naively refer to as pixel skipping. FPS engines don't move your mouse by pixels. They move it by an angle. Sensor drift is solely based on DPI and often mouse movement speed. When you move your mouse a set distance it doesn't always register as the same distance. At 800-1600 DPI with modern sensors, this is minimized. Once you start getting to ~4k+ it becomes an amount worthy of concern. On the 3366 and logitech's newer sensors, even the drift at these higher dpis is somewhat minimal. It's an ~100% increase over 800-1600 range, but we're talking going from ~1% to ~2%. For comparison, there are some mice with the 3360 that have a 4% drift at almost any dpi. Khorne fucked around with this message at 20:11 on May 4, 2019 |
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May 4, 2019 19:59
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Yeah we're all aware that in-game sens is setting the angle a single input rotates your view by. We're giving advice based on the fact that it's ideal to have that angle be, at most, half a pixel. We refer to it in terms of pixels because the angular size of a pixel is what makes the sampling frequency relevant and that changes, so the max sens you want to run differs by resolution and FOV. The kind of sensor drift you're talking about is actually much more of a problem at low DPI. Yes, on some sensors (mostly garbage ones you shouldn't be buying), the absolute number of counts of error might go up as your DPI increases, but the amount of angle they represent goes down because you lower your in-game sens to keep the same physical sens, so the actual angular deviation is almost always significantly smaller.
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May 4, 2019 20:12
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K8.0 posted:Yeah we're all aware that in-game sens is setting the angle a single input rotates your view by. We're giving advice based on the fact that it's ideal to have that angle be, at most, half a pixel. We refer to it in terms of pixels because the angular size of a pixel is what makes the sampling frequency relevant and that changes, so the max sens you want to run differs by resolution and FOV. Whether it offsets the consistent loss from a lower dpi or not I don't actually know. That'd probably come down to the game, situation in the game, and other factors that are difficult to account for. If you actually need the added granularity because you're moving your mouse extremely small distances at super far away stuff, then yeah it'd help to go with the higher dpi. I'll stick by what I said in my original post: on modern gear both options should work out just as well. Obsessing about details only helps if something is wrong with your setup. Khorne fucked around with this message at 20:32 on May 4, 2019 |
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May 4, 2019 20:24
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Got a source for that? I'd be really interested to see the specific tests that cause that, since the stuff I've looked at hasn't shown it that way. Maybe how the errors map to DPI changes across physical movement speed? e - movement pattern could also affect it too I suppose, and obviously test surface has an effect.
K8.0 fucked around with this message at 20:36 on May 4, 2019 |
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May 4, 2019 20:34
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K8.0 posted:Got a source for that? I'd be really interested to see the specific tests that cause that, since the stuff I've looked at hasn't shown it that way. Maybe how the errors map to DPI changes across physical movement speed? e - movement pattern could also affect it too I suppose, and obviously test surface has an effect.
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May 4, 2019 20:54
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Khorne posted:This is the only concrete source I found. And there are some issues with their methodology. Also the results don't seem to align with what I was saying. The logitech mouse there uses a 3366. dang, I have that plugable mouse in the link. I felt it was a little off but thought i was just being a price snob. What makes it perform that badly even though it has a top end sensor? Is it poor firmware or are they using sensors that didnt pass QC?
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May 4, 2019 21:02
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Fauxtool posted:dang, I have that plugable mouse in the link. I felt it was a little off but thought i was just being a price snob. What makes it perform that badly even though it has a top end sensor? Is it poor firmware or are they using sensors that didnt pass QC? If you aren't currently using it and have another dead mouse around, lenses are often swappable. Swapping a g100s lens into the Xornet II fixed a somewhat similar issue. CM Storm shipped them with real bad lenses. And then didn't publicly acknowledge it. I think a few years later they started selling an updated version that had a fixed lens and some other tweaks. But it was kinda too little too late. Sad given the Xornet I was a real good $20 mouse for its time. It could also be something else entirely. Khorne fucked around with this message at 21:36 on May 4, 2019 |
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May 4, 2019 21:18
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Khorne posted:There's no right or wrong answer provided you have a good mouse+sensor. Your current settings sound good. K8.0 posted:Yeah we're all aware that in-game sens is setting the angle a single input rotates your view by. We're giving advice based on the fact that it's ideal to have that angle be, at most, half a pixel. We refer to it in terms of pixels because the angular size of a pixel is what makes the sampling frequency relevant and that changes, so the max sens you want to run differs by resolution and FOV. This is all still a little over my head but I'm trying to learn. Ignoring Windows settings, I typically game with a G703 but have a variety of gaming mice available to me, mostly from Logitech but also a few from Razer, and they all have well-known sensors (i.e. mostly the PMW3366 or similar.) With that in mind, is it preferable to have a lower "sensitivity" in-game (I'm not sure what the "sensitivity" is at this point; is it acceleration? ,) with the mouse DPI high enough to compensate, rather than high sensitivity and low DPI? This is what SwissArmyDruid originally mentioned, but I'm just not familiar enough with these parameters (aside from something as straightforward as DPI of course) to make sense of this yet.
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May 6, 2019 06:27
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For games there's essentially a quantum of rotation. With no acceleration, 1 mouse event rotates your view by some small angle. Unavoidably, there are directions you can't look in; you can only rotate your view along points in a grid. If the "small angle" isn't small enough, you notice the gaps between directions; you might be able to point at a point near the edge of a wall, or past the wall, but not right at the edge. This is sometimes called "pixel skipping" but the reason it happens is that your pointer isn't scanning pixels, it's rotating between points on a spherical grid. In quake-like games this quantum is sensitivity * m_yaw (for turning left/right) or sensitivity * m_pitch (for turning up/down). By raising your mouse CPI and lowering your sensitivity you get a finer grid but similar tracking response. This means that you might not be able to recognize the difference between nearby grid points at which point "pixel skipping" won't be noticed. If you're not being bothered by pixel skipping it's not preferable to try to avoid it. I haven't tested a PWM336x but I've had mice that had lower max tracking speeds at high CPI. My general advice is stick to what works for you, someone else fixing a problem you're not experiencing doesn't change what works for you.
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May 6, 2019 07:39
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It's that last part that's why I ask - because what I was doing not too long ago wasn't actually working for me: I was trying to play at a [relatively] high DPI, like 1600+, when I learned that serious FPS players do something radically different, like low DPI (800) and high sensitivity, or the inverse (which is why I lowered it to 800 but without touching in-game sensitivity.) And I mainly play World of Tanks, which isn't a typical FPS (it's more like a slow, old-man's FPS) so while I wasn't crippled with a too-high DPI, I was definitely struggling with my aiming without realizing why. I didn't understand why modern mice have such high-resolution sensors until now: that serious players pair that with low sensitivity. So I was just sort of flailing around, and then shooting in the dark without a strategy that's only now starting to become clear.
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May 6, 2019 09:02
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If you aren't a super serious player, just set your DPI to something that's comfortable on the desktop, and it's probably advisable in the Windows mouse settings to turn Enhance Pointer Precision off and leave the sensitivity slider at the middle setting. After you've settled on a DPI, set your in-game sensitivity MUCH lower thank you think. Try to get used to something that makes it take 10-24" of mouse movement to do a full 360. Actually get a ruler out and measure the physical sensitivity you settled on, and set other games the same way. That helps you build muscle memory. The ideal sens for you is going to depend on the games you play, your playstyle, what kind of mouse weight you like, how good shape you're in, a lot of stuff, but the general rule is that people who aren't good at aiming almost always have their sensitivity way too high and are trying to make small movements with their fingers/wrist when they should be making large movements with their arm.
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May 6, 2019 16:53
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Can confirm - as someone with no space, my aim is for poo poo. Keyboard trays just kinda suck for that, especially since there's a big expensive full-size keyboard nestled in there too.
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May 6, 2019 18:37
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Appoda posted:Can confirm - as someone with no space, my aim is for poo poo. Keyboard trays just kinda suck for that, especially since there's a big expensive full-size keyboard nestled in there too. A great time to switch to tenkeyless?
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May 7, 2019 05:34
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Only buys a few cm.
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May 7, 2019 11:05
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Appoda posted:Can confirm - as someone with no space, my aim is for poo poo. Keyboard trays just kinda suck for that, especially since there's a big expensive full-size keyboard nestled in there too. Khorne fucked around with this message at 13:12 on May 7, 2019 |
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May 7, 2019 12:35
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Khorne posted:You can still play at a reasonable sensitivity and then lift. A wrist movement from neutral to one side ~= 90-110 degrees is perfectly workable for most shooters. Oh, I don't really have trouble with aiming itself; my aim is probably pretty decent, considering I use like ~4 inches of space. I just know that if I had more space, I could do a lot better, so when I have more money than sense, I'm probably gonna replace everything -- desk, mouse, chair, maybe get one of those fancy mouse mats, put the monitors up on arms so they're not taking up so much space, etc. If I keep the desk (it's old, but huge; seats four monitors, a TV, and all of my other junk fairly comfortably), another option I'm considering is getting one of those full-size mousepads that can go under the keyboard and getting a nostromo or some sort of gaming keypad to have on the side, that way I can just push the keyboard out of the way of the mouse if I need to do some serious gaymen.
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May 7, 2019 22:41
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If the desk is that large, why such a small keyboard tray?
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May 7, 2019 22:45
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I don't think anyone makes a 4' wide keyboard tray. You gotta split level it, keyboard in the tray, mouse on the desk.
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May 7, 2019 22:49
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K8.0 posted:I don't think anyone makes a 4' wide keyboard tray. You gotta split level it, keyboard in the tray, mouse on the desk. I did for my desk. Had a stair runner, cut to size, and bought a heavy duty rail setup from Menards I think it was for 20 or so bucks. Making a keyboard tray is dead simple and can be done with very minimal tools. Most lumber yards/Big Box stores will even cut the piece to length for you for a minimal fee, if not free for a single piece. At most at that point it just takes a screwdriver/drill. Maybe a few sheets of sandpaper depending on the state the runner is in, and then whatever paint/stain/sealant you wish. A trick I used to place the tray under the desk while I screwed it in. I placed it across the arms of my chair at its lowest setting, rolled it under the desk, then popped the hydraulic and up it went. Edit - The reason I chose the stair runner is, well we had one out in the garage, but I'd choose one anyway because they have a nice rounded edge on them and aren't all that expensive. Koskun fucked around with this message at 20:19 on May 8, 2019 |
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May 8, 2019 18:57
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K8.0 posted:I don't think anyone makes a 4' wide keyboard tray. You gotta split level it, keyboard in the tray, mouse on the desk. Not a particular attack on your setup. Truthfully, just find whatever works for you.l I did this at my old desk because my legs were too high and there wasn't enough space for more than a ~10" pad. Khorne fucked around with this message at 20:25 on May 8, 2019 |
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May 8, 2019 20:01
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IDK, I personally find the ergonomics really work well for me on my particular desk setup. I hated the change in hand movement between mouse and keyboard at first, but it's actually not any farther because my mouse idles at the right top corner of my keyboard but 4.5" higher.
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May 8, 2019 20:20
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